Ground-Hugger and Strike Targets

[Xochi]

Heya All,

Just a quick clarification:

Unit Type: VTOLs (combat and support), Fighters
(aerospace and conventional), Small Craft
SPA Cost: 2 points
Another special skill for ace aviators with a burning hatred
for those damned “ground-pounders”, the Ground Hugger SPA
reflects a pilot whose fast reflexes and sense of timing enable
him to deliver more damage in a single pass than most others.
When resolving air-to-ground combat rules (see pp. 55-58,
AS) the pilot with this SPA can execute either “double strafe”, or a
“double strike” attack in a single ground-attack pass. The double
strafe attack allows the unit to break its normal 10-inch strafing
run into two strafing areas, each at least 2 inches long (and 2
inches wide), with a total combined strafe line of 10 inches. The
double strike attack, meanwhile, allows the unit to deliver two
strike attacks in a single pass over the battlefield. All attacks made
using this SPA must be along the airborne unit’s flight path.

It states that you can deliver two strike attacks in a single pass. It does not state that it cannot be the same target.

Are you able to strike attack the same target twice with this ruling? Our group decided against it because of the previous verbiage that said you have to make two strafe areas along the flight path. You can't double up strafe zones therefor cannot strike the same target twice.

Could I get some clarification on this?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

That's a fair question.

SPAs, unlike say C3 in Alpha Strike, are not based upon a pre-existing corpus of precedent.  The rules say what they say and they don't say what they don't say and that's all we have to go off of.

I'd actually lean towards strikes being allowed to "double up" on the same target.  There'd have to be some rule elsewhere establishing a "general state" where in the event one ever gets two attacks by some special rule/ability, one cannot declare them against the same target" in order for this SPA's wording to not allow it.  And of course I'm not sure there is such a rule ever establishing that general state.  In fact, on the flip-side Multi-Tasker allows you to attack the same target twice.  There'd have to be a very good reason for that same answer to not also extend to Ground-Hugger.

[Elmoth]

I would not allow them to be piled in the same bit of terrain. The intent is clearly for them to be able to shot 2 separate strips.

[DarkJaguar]

I would not allow them to be piled in the same bit of terrain. The intent is clearly for them to be able to shot 2 separate strips.

Based upon precedence where other abilities say "A different target", I would say the intent is indeed clear.  That you can target the same unit twice.

[Elmoth]

Since it is a straffing area, and 2 areas covering the same area are well, the same area, not 2, I stand by my original reading of the rule.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Based upon precedence where other abilities say "A different target", I would say the intent is indeed clear.  That you can target the same unit twice.

I'd say the intent is actually completely unclear.  I absolutely can buy the argument it's "supposed" to mean two separate targets in the case of Striking as well as Strafing.  But I'd support the reading allowing the same target twice for the reasons I gave upthread.

[Scotty]

Rules as written, two strikes on the same target are allowed.

Personally: Yeah, I'm okay with that, but the Strikes should do half damage each.  This is the aerial version of Multi-Tasker, after all.

[Elmoth]

On the same subject.... Can VTOLS make straffing and bombing passes? The rule seems to imply that, but I did not see it in the rules myself.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

On the same subject.... Can VTOLS make straffing and bombing passes? The rule seems to imply that, but I did not see it in the rules myself.

normally no, but there is an optional rule somewhere that allows it.

[Xochi]

Rules as written, two strikes on the same target are allowed.

Personally: Yeah, I'm okay with that, but the Strikes should do half damage each.  This is the aerial version of Multi-Tasker, after all.

That would be a good errata to it, considering something striking twice for 5 to 9 damage on the same target is OP in my opinion.

[Xochi]

Rules as written, two strikes on the same target are allowed.

Personally: Yeah, I'm okay with that, but the Strikes should do half damage each.  This is the aerial version of Multi-Tasker, after all.

I put the idea in the AS errata thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.60

[nckestrel]

those should go to rules questions.  errata is after the answer is known.  if it's an obvious typo or other fix, you can post directly to errata.  If you think the rule should be rule changed, rules questions.  Errata should be final, not proposals or questions.

[Scotty]

As an additional disclaimer: Anything I post here, no matter how emphatic or cocksure, is in an unofficial capacity.

[nckestrel]

As an additional disclaimer: Anything I post here, no matter how emphatic or cocksure, is in an unofficial capacity.

Same here :).

[Tai Dai Cultist]

On the other hand, everything I say IS in my official capacity as an unofficial rules lawyer.

[Xochi]

those should go to rules questions.  errata is after the answer is known.  if it's an obvious typo or other fix, you can post directly to errata.  If you think the rule should be rule changed, rules questions.  Errata should be final, not proposals or questions.

Sorry bout that! I will make sure that I correctly post where those things should go from now on.

So far I have found that you can just take 2 Avar for 30 PV each and basically hit any target on the map for up to 4 dmg, twice, after round 2. That makes the SPA far more effective than Multi-tasker and can be obtained through Air Stars/Lances.