3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 12 June v10.64

[GreekFire]

...even though Dr. Xotl is the gold standard here, it's still technically just Fanon.  (Until CGL say otherwise.)

It being fanon certainly doesn't stop it from being a god-tier battletech resource in my eyes.

[BigDuke66]

Congratulations Doc Xotl!
And attached the updated 10.4 tables.
These are 2 ods files, the equivalent of MS xlsx files, you should have no problems opening them with the usual office suits, be it MS, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, etc..
If you find any mistake please post or pm me.

[Karasu]

Congratulations Doc Xotl!
And attached the updated 10.4 tables.
These are 2 ods files, the equivalent of MS xlsx files, you should have no problems opening them with the usual office suits, be it MS, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, etc..
If you find any mistake please post or pm me.

I'm unsure whether it has fed through from the RAT document, or introduced in the workbook, but the Davion tables (3039 and 3050 at least) refer to the Ostscout as a 30-tonner,

[BigDuke66]

Yes that is so in the PDF, that error is found on:
- Davion Mech 3028(p.12), 3039(p.28), 3050(p.61), 3057(p.70)(twice here as OTT-7K Ostscout [30] and OTT-7J Ostscout [30])
- Liao Mech 3050(p.59), 57(p.66)(twice here as OTT-7K Ostscout [30] and OTT-7J Ostscout [30])
- Kurita Mech 3057(p.68 & 69)(twice on both as OTT-7K Ostscout [30] and OTT-7J Ostscout [30])
- Marik Mech 3057(p.72)(twice here as OTT-7K Ostscout [30] and OTT-7J Ostscout [30])
- Steiner Mech 3057(p.74)(twice here as OTT-7K Ostscout [30] and OTT-7J Ostscout [30])

[Xotl]

Thanks for the well-wishes, all.

Bleh, I thought I fixed the Ootscoot error a long time ago.  Well, I'll adjust that for the final release (which also has the Liao charts done again for 3050 and 3057, because I found out some new material).

Should be out in a couple of day.  Thanks.

Something I just noticed: the Machine Gun variant of the Goblin is missing from the Kurita vehicle lists for 3028 and 3039...

Yeah, the vehicle tables are rather out of date.  I don't think I'll be making any major updates to them, but that is small enough a correction that I might add it in as well.

[sadlerbw]

You folks are amazing, and I appreciate the hard work that is put into these tables. It may be unpaid, and it may be time consuming, but never let it be said that it is thankless...Thank you!

[truetanker]

Now Xtol needs a gofundme account to help him make this a real official Catalyst PDF, available as a a download and / or PoD.

TT

[Sartris]

unsure what xotl's number is for the motivation to do all the fact checking. also a portion would have to go toward ray's favorite beverage.

not sure if a gofundme is going to cut it. might have to "acquire" some gold bars.

[nckestrel]

And if it were official, it would have to fit what others wanted it to be, where now Xotl is free to make it the way he wants to make it.
Some things are better unofficial. 

[Xotl]

Here is, barring bug fix and canon update releases, what will be the final version of these tables.  The biggest change is the return of the Faction Lists (which provide a simple alphabetical listing of all mechs of a given faction, as well as their Av ratings).

However, work for the upcoming Operation Guerrero sourcebook has forced me to take another close look at the Capellan lists (plus I found some errors).  As such, their 3050 and 3057 tables were redone (yet again).  I also re-added the Hunchback -SP, which was added in the 3039 tables but then somehow dropped from all 3050 tables (and thus the 3057 tables that used those as a base).  So, changed are:

Liao 3050
Liao 3057
All Houses: Medium 3050 and Medium 3057
All Houses: Light (fixed the Ostscout tonnage error, for good this time)

Hopefully these will slowly make their way out into the wider community, such as MegaMek, taking the place of any older implementations.

Thanks all for your support and corrections over the years.  It's really made me smile to see people all over the world using this stuff.  Cheers.

[Frabby]

Since you wrote this would likely be the final version, I have prepared an FDF file with editing annotations - I can email it to you if you PM me an email adress to send it to.

More general points:

- I feel the specific history of the BJ-3 isn't accurately depicted in the tables. It was built on St. Ives for the CCAF, and though we don't have numbers the fact that it got its own alphanumerical designator seems to suggest the total numbers weren't insignificant. When St. Ives broke away they gifted the greater part of their existing BJ-3 to the FedSuns but retained domestic production. I feel the BJ-3 should appear on the 3039 St. Ives tables at Av ~3-4 and perhaps on the 3028 CCAF tables at Av ~1-2.

- Suggest moving the General Mercenary/General Periphery/MoC/OA/TC 3028-3050 tables from their current position in the document up to right behind the Houses' 3028 tables. Their current placement with the 3039 tables seems unintuitive to me.

- Perhaps add a clarification that "3028" arguably is applicable for most of the Third Succession War.

[Karasu]

- Perhaps add a clarification that "3028" arguably is applicable for most of the Third Succession War.

I'd argue it's not really, since both the Raven and Cataphract appear on the Liao 3028 table, meaning that it can only go back a handful of years at most.

[Xotl]

The BJ-3 doesn't formally enter service until 3042; before that there's just experimentation, per TR 3039 (not surprising, as breaking in new tech must have taken quite a long time; IO lists freezers as only entering produciton in 3040, so this all lines up).

I can definitely move the periphery and merc section: you're not the first to mention that being an issue.  I've uploaded a new copy that places them after the 3028 House tables (and renames the section from Periphery to Other).

The 3028 tables won't properly serve as a generic Third War table because that War is so damn long.  There's a lot of smaller, late-breaking stuff in there that won't fit even a few decades earlier.  For the most part, a lot of people aren't going to notice these deviations unless they do a lot of research, though, so I can add a note along these lines.

Updated document available in the first post.

[nckestrel]

The BJ-3X was available earlier, including to Liao, but it wasn't available until 3029. So it would not be on CC 3028 tables.

[Frabby]

The BJ-3 doesn't formally enter service until 3042; before that there's just experimentation, per TR 3039 (not surprising, as breaking in new tech must have taken quite a long time; IO lists freezers as only entering produciton in 3040, so this all lines up).

Checking with the MUL, I find that yes that is what the MUL says. But unless there was a deliberate retcon, the MUL may be in error:

The BJ-3 was introduced and named in BattlePack: Fourth Succession War where it is described (p. 38, New 'Mechs: BJ-3 Blackjack) as having two PPCs, 4 M-Lasers, and according to the fluff text on the same page it was an upgrade ordered by Duchess Candance Liao "after the rediscovery of lost Star League technology".

According to the BattleCorps story Proprietary, this rediscovery was in fact made by House Davion, and Capellan agents simply stole double heat sinks from a production facility in Lyran space, skimming them from ongoing production. This was set up on 5 May 3026 and a confirmed delivery of DHS to the CapCon took place in November 3027, implicitly with several previous deliveries. Past actions of BattleMechs that had been equipped with these "parts" were mentioned by late 3027 and "previous similar shipments" in April 3028.
As of early March 3028, House Davion had retrieved one DHS from a salvaged Capellan 'Mech, examined it and traced it to Lyran manufacture.
Summarily, this strongly indicates that the Capellans had access to, and deployed BattleMechs with, FedCom-built DHS by 3027 at the latest, possibly since mid-3026.

The BJ-3 appears among WH Imarra forces in the Sic Semper Tyrannis scenario in BattlePack: Fourth Succession War (pp. 34-36), dated 24 October 3029.
It was also expressly described to have ten double heat sinks which each are three times as bulky as regular heat sinks (p. 36, "Double Heat Sinks").

The BJ-3 having 10 DHS rules out that this could be the same unnamed experimental variant discussed in TRO:3039 (repeated verbatim in TRO:SW), which was under development in the 3030s, and replaced three heat sinks with "freezers" (so apparently mixed SHS and DHS, which was only ever possible with one type of prototype DHS that ultimately proved not feasible for regular use).

The MUL seems to have renamed the BJ-3 as described in BattlePack: Fourth Succession War the BJ-3X, with an intro date of 3029. However, the story Proprietary seems to suggest it was already being deployed no later than 3027.

I feel that there was no need to rename the BJ-3. It was a variant using 10 DHS, built initially using a supply of stolen FedCom DHS.
The other, experimental, unit described (the one with 3 "freezers") may have been an evolution of the BJ-3. Given the nature of its DHS, I don't think it could ever have entered line production.

[Xotl]

All of that is old canon though, predating Interstellar Ops (which has the BJ-3X specifically mentioned; that model is not just a MUL thing).  I think it's pretty clear why it was changed: the re-introduction of double heat sinks comes far too early under the old model.  Freezers aren't produceable in anything more than handmade batches for prototypes until 3040.  The broad strokes of old canon are still there in the new (the IO entry even mentions the espionage you refer to), but the dates didn't work and so everything had to be tweaked.  The earlier models are now fluffed as being a handful of -3Xs.

"It was not until after the War of 3039 ended that the NAIS, working on information from the Helm Memory Core, solved the final issues that enabled mass production of Star League-grade double heat sinks to begin."

[NeonKnight]

So, you gonna continue the pain into the JIHAD?

[Sartris]

Here is, barring bug fix and canon update releases, what will be the final version of these tables. 

[Frabby]

All of that is old canon though, predating Interstellar Ops (which has the BJ-3X specifically mentioned; that model is not just a MUL thing).

Excellent answer. Thanks for bearing with me. I wasn't aware of the mention in IO and will read up on this now. (May have to update the Blackjack Sarna article accordingly once I've sorted this out.)

[mindw]

Hi @Xotl,

Thank you for this wonderful "little" document. Been using it constantly since the day i discovered it :)

A few questions:
1. The LCT-3S Locust was produced on Furillo since 3049 (MUL, OR, ORLA, etc) and yet it is completely absent from the lists. It appears on the RAT of Era Report 3052 though. Is there a particular reasons for its omission?
2. The TBT-5S Trebuchet, has an odd "jump" in popularity for FS in 3039 1->6 and falling back to 1 in 3050. Is there some reason for this jump in popularity? TRSW mentioned it becoming popular in the FWLM though (p. 92).
3. The SDR-5D also has a massive surge in popularity in 3039 1->8 for the FS before dropping off to 1 in 3050. Any particular reason behind this?
4. The FFL-4B was introduced ~3047 and yet is available to the SLDF (p77). Perhaps FFL-3A is a better choice? TRSW describes it as the "original SLDF" variant?

Thanks :)

[Haree78]

Thanks for the update Xotl.
Just updating the tables for Battletech Extended, noticed a small error in the Davion A/B Rated 3057 table.  Check the Nightsky 5S and Shadowhawk 2D2, they seem to be entered in error. Used to be 5 and 49 weighting respectively, now the Nightsky is 49 and the 2D2 roll doesn't make sense.

[Xotl]

Thanks for the error reports all.  I've corrected the entire Davion Faction list for 3039 (it was all wrong, due to a spreadsheet error), adjusted the Firefly variant, fixed the Davion Nightsky and Shadow Hawk entries, added in the Locust -3S, and corrected some smaller errors I'd discovered myself.

New version in the first post.

[MarauderD]

Great resource.  Thanks again for all you and the team have done for the community, Xotl!

[BairdEC]

The link in the first post is dead.

[Xotl]

Oops, fixed.

[jasonf]

Hi @Xotl,

Let me just second everyones thanks on putting together this great list! I'm trying to get back into the game after a long hiatus, and just started on a project for putting some more flavor into random force creation, so working from your lists has been an awesome starting point!

If you update the PDF again, I think I found the following issues.

1. Typos:
--3050 Kurita Mech table: WVR-6R Wolverine rolls should be 638-687 (not 688-687)
--3050 Steiner A/B Mech table: There is a duplicate line for VL-2T Vulcan (looks like delete the one with 71-1133 roll)
--3050 Steiner A/B Mech table: WVR-6R Wolverine rolls should be 531-595 (not 596-595)
--3050 Steiner C/D/F Mech table: WVR-6R Wolverine rolls should be 635-706 (not 707-706)

2. Possible errors (depends on my reading of the canon I own, Sarna.net, etc). Apologies if these have been addressed already:
--Kurita: Should they also have access to the CRB-27 Crab from 3039 forward? I have seen sources cite they received a version of the CRB-27 with downgraded TTS from Comstar, but sources implied that the export version retained its ferro armor.
--Kurita: Has access to EXT-4D Exterminator and FLS-8K Flashman in 3039 table, but not in 3050, 3057 tables. Maybe they were all wiped out post-Clan Invasion, but I think that would imply they should still be in the 3050 table?
--Mark: Has access to EXT-4A Exterminator in 3028 table, but not in 3039, 3050, 3057 tables. I would have thought that the initial stock would still remain (in smaller proportions) over time, given limited FWL conflits then
--Davion & Steiner: Missing STH-1D Stealth and GUN-1ERD Gunsliger from 3057 (A/B) list? Sources I looked at suggest both started outfitting units with these models starting in 3053-54.
--Davion: Missing TBT-5D Thunderbolt from 3057 (C/D/F) list? It's in the 3028-3050 tables, and I would assume that some would still be around in the lower graded units.

Hope those are helpful. Again, thanks again for putting this together!  :)

[Xotl]

Good stuff: I'll get to work on an update.

[SCC]

Xotl, as the generic APC's aren't on your lists, what does that do to their availability? Does that mean I can simply say that I can buy one whenever if in a campaign?

[jasonf]

So I decided to get back into the game after nearly years by spending a ton of time reimmersing myself in the TROs and Sourcebooks. In doing so, I did a ton of my own research on 'Mech availablity and then cross-referenced it with the current RAT tables you have.

After going through all of the differences and reading through all 20 pages of previous comments here(!), I think the following are legit errata, though if anyone can verify/reject some of these, that'd be great. I tried to group them by time period and type of error. (I was already able to reject a few suggestions from my earlier post, and only include the verified ones from the earlier post below).

Also, @Xotl, if you are time constrained, and if you or anyone else can verify that these changes are legit, I think I might be able to create updated tables in a spreadsheet. I was also going to try and see if I could create 3057 tables for General/Mercs, St. Ives, and FRR from what I have so far, but that'll likely take a bit more work.

I'm also attaching a spreadsheet of my notes. They match up what's currently in the RATs with what I found in my own research, and highlight the where the errata I note below should appear. I inlcuded a couple versions of the RATs in formats that should be easily imported into most programming packages, if those are helpful, too.

Thanks again for this awesome resource!  :)

On to the potential issues...

Edits to Tables prior to 3057
1.   Commando CMD-1D and CMD-2D – should be removed from Taurian 3028-50 table (Sarna.net, TR3050U: began production license from Defiance Ind after they upgraded to COM-5S)
2.   Mercury MCY-97 – should be removed from Kurita 3039A*/50/57 tables (all sources suggest they only received MCY-98 and MCY-97 kept for Com Guards)
3.   Hussar HSR-200-D – should be removed from Kurita 3050/57 tables (TR3050U: introduced by Comstar in 3051, so not part of 3035 transfer)
4.   Crab CRB-27 – should be added to Kurita 3039A*/50/57-A/B (TR3050: suggests “downgraded” ‘Mechs identical to CRB-27 except for communications equipment; i.e., w/ Ferro-Fibrous armor)
5.   Dragon DRG-5N – should be removed from Kurita 3039A* (MUL intro date = 3047)
6.   Raven RVN-4X – increases in availability over time for Liao, but has SW-era tech and likely discontinued to produce RVN-3L, RVN-3M by3048. Is current availability correct?
7.   Champion CHP-2N – availability follows weird pattern for Liao: 2.0% chance in 3028 6.0% chance in 3039, unavailable thereafter (would have thought it’d be a steady or slightly declining 0.7%-1.3% chance across Liao’s tables over time given availability for other Houses)

Edits for 3057: Removals or Changes
8.   Eagle EGL-1M – should be removed from Liao, Marik A/B tables (MUL intro date = 3058)
9.   Kintaro KTO-K – should be removed from Kurita A/B table (MUL intro date = 3058)
10.   Lynx LNX-9Q – should probably be LNX-9C instead for Davion, Steiner A/B tables (TR3058U: LNX-9C and LNX-9R “currently produced”; LNX-9Q extinct by 3rd SW)
11.   Crusader CRD-4D – should change to CRD-4L for Liao A/B table (TR3050: literally same exact ‘Mech, but Capellans probably like their “L”!)

Edits for 3057: Possible Copy-Paste Errors for A/B vs. C/D/F Tables
[Note: these are issues where it looks more likely that the value in the A/B table belongs in the C/D/F table and vice versa, based on the tech levels of the 'Mech variants in question.]
12.   Falcon FLC-4N – should probably switch for Kurita, Davion A/B and C/D/F tables, respectively
13.   Hermes HER-1A and HER-1B – should probably switch for Kurita, Davion A/B and C/D/F tables, respectively
14.   Spider SDR-5V – should probably switch for Kurita A/B and C/D/F tables
15.   Jenner JR7-F and JR7-K – should probably switch for Kurita A/B and C/D/F tables
16.   Firestarter FS9-H – should probably switch for Kurita, Davion A/B and C/D/F tables, respectively
17.   Clint CLNT-2-3T and CLNT-2-3U – should probably switch for Davion A/B and C/D/F tables
18.   Hermes II HER-2S and HER-5S – should probably switch for Marik A/B and C/D/F tables
19.   Whitworth WTH-1, WTH-1S, and WTH-2 – should probably switch for Kurita, Davion A/B and C/D/F tables, respectively
20.   Ostroc OSR-2D and OSR-2L – should probably switch for Marik A/B and C/D/F tables

Edits for 3057: Should add based on TROs
21.   Raptor RTX-1O (and other omni configurations) – should add to Steiner A/B table since it is included in Davion A/B table (TR3058U: exported to FedCom on Clan front)
22.   Jackal JA-KL-1532 – should add to Marik A/B table (TR3058U: sold to CCAF, FWLM, mercenaries)
23.   Hussar HSR-200-D – should add to Steiner A/B table [in addition to Kurita removal above] (TR3050U: produced at Coventry MetalWorks 3052-)
24.   Cicada CDA-3M – should add to Kurita, Davion, Steiner A/B tables (TR3050U: exported for deployment to Clan front)
25.   Hermes II HER-5S – should add to all major Houses (Liao, Kurita, Davion, Marik, Steiner A/B tables; currently only in Marik C/D/F table) (TR3050U: exports to all Major Houses after Outreach Accords)
26.   Hermes II HER-5ME – should add to Marik A/B (TR3050U: upgrade of HER-2M, used primarily by SAFE units)
27.   Sentinel STN-3L – should add to Steiner A/B (TR3050U: produced at Defiance Industries 3050s-)
28.   Stealth STH-1D – should add to Davion and Steiner A/B tables (TR3055U: produced by General Motors 3054-)
29.   Crusader CRD-3M – should add to Steiner A/B(!) (TR3050: Brigadier Corp./Oliver produced the ‘Marik’ version for Steiner [until captured in Operation Guerrero])
30.   JagerMech JR6-DG – should add to Davion A/B (TR3050U, MUL: Davion field refit since 3054)\
31.   Gallowglas GAL-1GLS and GAL-2GLS – should add to Steiner, Kurita A/B tables (TR3055, TR3055U: sold on open market for Clan front; fielded by Lyran and Kurita forces by 3055)
32.   Orion ON1-M – should add to Liao, Kurita, Davion, and Steiner A/B tables (TR3050U: exported to all major Houses after Outreach summit)
33.   Flashman FLS-8K – should add to Steiner A/B table (TR3050U: produced by Defiance Industries mid-3050s-)
34.   Gunslinger GUN-1ERD – should add to Kurita, Steiner A/B tables (TR3055U: joint production venture, Steiner 3053-, Kurita 3055-)
35.   Nightstar NSR-9J – should add to Davion, Steiner A/B tables (TR3058, TR3058U: produced (again) by General Motors, Norse-Storm by 3056(?))

Edits for 3057: Potentially Missing based on Existing Table Entries
36.   Locust LCT-3M – add to Liao A/B table? (would be consistent with other -XM variants fielded in Liao A/B table)
37.   Trebuchet TBT-7M – add to Steiner A/B table? (included in all other major House tables; exported to all of them?)
38.   Scorpion SCP-1O – add to Liao A/B table? (field refit and included in Marik, Kurita A/B tables)
39.   Grasshopper GHR-5J – add to Liao, Kurita, Marik, Steiner A/B tables? (common field refit, but only present in Davion A/B table)
40.   Warhammer WHM-7M – add to Liao A/B table? (would be consistent with other -XM variants fielded in Liao A/B table)

[Xotl]

I just want to say how much I appreciate checking of this level.  However, I'm swamped at the moment (real life + paying BT writing) and so haven't been able to get in the update to the RATs I was planning, let alone have the chance to check this over.  So please don't take it amiss if it takes me a month or so to get to this.

Thanks.