Value of Speed in a Scout Helicopter

[Goose]

If I Recall Correctly™ you just need a line of sight to report with, and it's range-independent, onto the point of cheese 'bout climbing up to aerospace altitudes.

Me? I just want a good faith recon effort so the game is honestly not Double Blind.

So: What blend of speed and et al would one prefer?

There's a NoPrize® for verbosity

[AlphaMirage]

Depends what units it's scouting for and what other auxiliary functions it has. One, VTOLs are very fast generally but if they are scouting for hover vehicles they will need to be faster than you'd need for tracked. Two, speed is armor for VTOLs so more engine beats more plate particularly if you want to TAG something and need to get close. Three, Active Probes are enhanced by speed which enables greater scan lines, useful for finding stealth units to drop bombs on.

A scout helicopter might also be put into the SAR, Special Forces, MedEvac, or route mining work like VOLCANO mines. There speed is good for infil and exfil.

[Daryk]

A Ferret should do the trick.

[Goose]

The more I stare at a Ferret, the worse it is.

[Charistoph]

Depends what units it's scouting for and what other auxiliary functions it has. One, VTOLs are very fast generally but if they are scouting for hover vehicles they will need to be faster than you'd need for tracked. Two, speed is armor for VTOLs so more engine beats more plate particularly if you want to TAG something and need to get close. Three, Active Probes are enhanced by speed which enables greater scan lines, useful for finding stealth units to drop bombs on.

A scout helicopter might also be put into the SAR, Special Forces, MedEvac, or route mining work like VOLCANO mines. There speed is good for infil and exfil.

Theses are all good points that I highly agree with and endorse.

One of the nastier things I've had to deal with was when someone brought 2 VTOLs with TAG that were spotting for 2 LRM Carriers with Semi-Guided LRMs.  The terrain was nasty which funneled me in to a spot that 2 Stealth Phoenix Hawks and an Annihilator covered, but was the only way for me to reach those LRMCs.

The more I stare at a Ferret, the worse it is.

It's only bad if you expect it to kill something on its own, besides itself.

[Daryk]

Mind listing what else you seem to want besides recon?  If eyes on recon is really all you want, there's nothing wrong with a Ferret.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's only bad if you expect it to kill something on its own, besides itself.

Trying to attack something with a Ferret is an admission that things have already gone catastrophically wrong.

[Charistoph]

Trying to attack something with a Ferret is an admission that things have already gone catastrophically wrong.

Pretty much.  Any Scout engaging in combat usually is either because the opportunity presented itself, or something went really wrong.

[Goose]

Mind listing what else you seem to want besides recon?

Mast Mounts, even the empty ones, seem like a core competency; Sensor Dispensers are shorly a force multiplier.

I need some new though on C³ nodes, or just new thought at all, in this arena …

[Daryk]

All three of those will fit on a Ferret.  Good luck finding a canon design that fits the bill.

[DOC_Agren]

Trying to attack something with a Ferret is an admission that things have already gone catastrophically wrong.

A Ferret is really a UH-1D...  It is not a combat bird!!!

Mast Mounts, even the empty ones, seem like a core competency; Sensor Dispensers are shorly a force multiplier.

I need some new though on C³ nodes, or just new thought at all, in this arena …

Are there any Mast Mounts in canon VTOL?

I know someone who scouts were using Savannah Masters with the ML pulled for a C3 link

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

There are a number of VTOLs with Mast Mounts in Record Sheets: 3060 Unabridged.

[DOC_Agren]

There are a number of VTOLs with Mast Mounts in Record Sheets: 3060 Unabridged.

good to know

[Goose]

  And lookie there: A published Mast mount/CACR setup!

Any of the listed Clans ship to DaSpchear?

[Colt Ward]

You can limit sight lines in the rules IIRC?  For campaign purposes I usually select 30-35 hexed for the limit to prevent lolcopters when I have double blind in play onMM.

[House Davie Merc]

A Ferret should do the trick.

If a Ferret is an option as a scout VTOL, then a Ferret is the answer.

I frequently field the Armored Ferret "Wild Weasel" variant.
It's a 15/23 for 103 BV.  With a 3/2 pilot it's 156 BV. 2/2 pilot at 181.
If you aren't worried about having extra armor the standard Ferret is only 58
and the cargo is 17BV.
The Ferret is CHEAP.
It's only real problem is that an official mini has never been made despite
how long it's been in the game.
On a few rare occasions I've used the MG to wipe out infantry platoons to
eliminate the OP's cheap spotters. It's risky but moving at top speed makes
it hard for most infantry to hit.
One time I knocked a Phoenix Hawk LAM out of the air with one that was
teamed up with a Warrior C variant.  The MG hit just happened to be the
last point that made it crash.
LAMs are really expensive to improve the skills on. VTOLs are MUCH cheaper.

[Colt Ward]

Also remember they can carry external weapons too

[Wolf72]

Also remember they can carry external weapons too

like hard-points on an ASF/CF, right? ... the Ferret would only be able to carry one .5 ton bomb/pod (right?).  Still not at all bad boost though.

[Church14]

Seems like the speed a scout helicopter wants to be is 'faster than the things likely to chase it'

[Colt Ward]

like hard-points on an ASF/CF, right? ... the Ferret would only be able to carry one .5 ton bomb/pod (right?).  Still not at all bad boost though.

Do not know the math off the top of my head but sounds right.  A RL-10 pod at least gives you opportunity against soft targets you find.

[DaevaHuG0]

like hard-points on an ASF/CF, right? ... the Ferret would only be able to carry one .5 ton bomb/pod (right?).  Still not at all bad boost though.

Should be a limit of 1 bomb per 5 tons. And VTOLs lose 1 cruise mp per bomb.

[ImperialistDog]

Pretty much.  Any Scout engaging in combat usually is either because the opportunity presented itself, or something went really wrong.

The job of the scout is to run and find out.  If they are not scouting then they are not doing their job, and everybody else is about to be doing a lot of finding out.  Very unpleasant finding out.  If the scout is fighting something has gone very, very wrong.

[ThePW]

You can limit sight lines in the rules IIRC?  For campaign purposes I usually select 30-35 hexed for the limit to prevent lolcopters when I have double blind in play onMM.

LolCopter = +5 TMM, which generally makes my blood boil when dealing with VTOLs (especially on interdiction/prevention missions; usually the ones who reach the opposite edge ARE VTOLs)

[Charistoph]

The job of the scout is to run and find out.  If they are not scouting then they are not doing their job, and everybody else is about to be doing a lot of finding out.  Very unpleasant finding out.  If the scout is fighting something has gone very, very wrong.

And once things are found, if you have the opportunity to shank an juicy target in the Rear with minimal consequence it's hard not to.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

But that's strictly a bonus that should be carried out only if you can do so without endangering the primary objective.

[Charistoph]

But that's strictly a bonus that should be carried out only if you can do so without endangering the primary objective.

Agreed, hence the "Should the opportunity present itself" and "with minimal consequence" parts.

[DOC_Agren]

Do not know the math off the top of my head but sounds right.  A RL-10 pod at least gives you opportunity against soft targets you find.

Or mark it for someone else.   now a stock Ferret pull the MG and Ammo for 2 RL10 at least you have the range to engage if you have a target too  good to pass up.

But if your scout is fighting, something has gone sideways.

[Wolf72]

Or mark it for someone else.   now a stock Ferret pull the MG and Ammo for 2 RL10 at least you have the range to engage if you have a target too  good to pass up.

But if your scout is fighting, something has gone sideways.

What was the Gene Hackman/Danny Glover movie ... he was Bird Dog (ooh! Bat 21).  That's what a Ferret might do, ... loiter, recon, plop some missiles, stay out of reach.  (note: stay away from CV/Mech scale oppenents).

[Church14]

Or mark it for someone else.   now a stock Ferret pull the MG and Ammo for 2 RL10 at least you have the range to engage if you have a target too  good to pass up.

I really like this swap for those "hey, we found the ammo dump and it's defended by the third stringers" moments where your entire raid lasts under 20 seconds

[OatsAndHall]

IMO, speed is the #1 concern when playing scout VTOLs. It's really the only armor they have so I view it as a necessity. I use these fast VTOLs for IDF, TAG or otherwise, and the only thing that is more effective in that role is BA.