Author Topic: How to use yellowjackets in combat.  (Read 15856 times)

Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #120 on: 27 June 2020, 17:08:36 »
This assumes criticals don't get you first.  In this scenario, hit #4 will come with a minimum of two critical hit rolls (each IS damage) plus a 1/6 chance out of each four hits of getting a TAC as a bonus.  At four hits, it is a 48% chance of not taking any, or 52% of taking at least one.

Looking at the rotor critical hits, you have four results.  Out of the 36 possible rolls on 2d6 in chart order
  • 10 do no further damage
  • 16 further damage the rotor, losing you an extra MP
  • 7 destroy the flight stabilizer, can only be hit once, but once hit you are limited to cruising, and suffer +3 Piloting and +1 gunnery penalities
  • 3 immediately destroy your rotor, Gravity demands you get down here right now!

So chances you might be down to 2 MP, either from extra rotor damage or being limited to cruise.  Not sure if the only hit once for the stabilizer means you default down the table if you hit it again, which would mean a second stabilizer roll is effectively a rotor destroyed result. :o  Mild case it is down to 2 MP when on it's last point of rotor structure.

Contrast to a Cavalry or Warrior, where they fourth hit in an extra rotor damage scenario leaves a 5/8 movement to attempt to withdraw with. Not enough to escape a dedicated pursuit, but depending on your side's condition they might not consider the distraction worth it.

A gauss rifle is always worth it.  And even more so for one that could be run down by an angry Urbanmech.  Didn't the 3050 refits give them a LB-10X? >:D

Or lets say your commander said getting the armor stripped off your rotors is a sign to go home while you still have a ride.  At that point a Cavalry or Warrior would still be a brisk 8/12, and able at least to keep the same distance from most ground pursuit.  Heck, the Warrior could fly backwards and do a fighting withdrawal.  A Yellow Jacket would be down to 4/6, and have to turn and run, and still could be overhauled by heavy cavalry mech designs.

This could be part of Cannonshop's experience in running them.  Once the Jellowbucket starts taking any rotor damage, it gets into trouble it can't escape from unless the enemy lets it go.  And at that point keeping up with one trying to flee isn't a great difficulty.

It's a contributing factor for sure, Nikas.  from a campaign standpoint the Yellowjacket's a loser-it really ONLY works in tailored duelling scenarios set up to minimize its weaknesses. 
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #121 on: 29 June 2020, 08:08:28 »
So I ran a fight over MegaMek on Friday, lance and a pair of Yellow Jackets vs. lance and two vehicles of his choice. I think to mock me, he took Furies. I had a pair of Banshees, a T-bolt and a Blitzkrieg. He was rocking a Grasshopper, a Wolverine, and a pair of Atlases. I let the 'Mechs stay ahead of my Yellow Jackets, had them moving forward and back to trail and keep the movement odds up. We started firing about turn 5 and the mods to hit my assaults were in the 9s while the Yellow Jackets were 11-12. So, the Yellow Jackets were spitting out GRs at 9-10 for a few turns without return fire.

He sent the Wolverine after one of my Yellow Jackets. With a LPL and a dozen SRMs it was definitely a threat to the VTOL, but it was also costing him over twice the BV to deal with one VTOL. He managed a sensor and a rotor hit on that Yellow Jacket. I was planning on drawing him off to the side with it and try to keep those two out of the game for a few turns, but he had to run past my T-Bolt for a turn to chase the Yellow Jacket. And he fell. And the T-Bolt had TSM running. And then his left torso and engine were gone.

My Banshees disabled the Furies and the Yellow Jackets picked those apart while the rest of the lance swept in to surround the other three 'Mechs. I felt like the Yellow Jackets were a nice, cheap firepower addition to back up my lance. The BV difference between them and the Furies allowed me to upgrade my Banshee-8S piloting skill to 4, which was rather helpful.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #122 on: 29 June 2020, 08:45:23 »
Objectively, the only one battle report doesn't make a sure proof for its usefulness, but still it will shows HOW to use it.

Sir Chaos

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #123 on: 01 July 2020, 11:05:04 »
Objectively, the only one battle report doesn't make a sure proof for its usefulness, but still it will shows HOW to use it.

It definitely shows that the Yellowjacket can be used well - which is more than its detractors are willing to admit so far.
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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #124 on: 01 July 2020, 11:46:01 »
There's a huge amount of units available in BattleTech and some people like them for different reasons, maybe the picture or the name or that it has a cool weapon they like, whatever. If someone asks advice on using them, I'm glad to oblige, even if it's a unit I personally dislike or think is a poor one.

Telling people, 'Use something else' is a pretty damned lazy response to a request for help in a game where we can all use a few more good gamers to join us. If someone asked about the Hoplite, I'd tell them how best to utilize it, not 'Get a Griffin'.

I'm sure there are some other ways to use the Yellow Jacket successfully than what I did and I hope that the posters in this thread can come up with some creative ways to help out the OP.
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #125 on: 01 July 2020, 12:55:08 »
For my money, the Yellow Jacket also suffers from a comparison to another design.

The Regulator.

Yes it is faction limited, and around twice the price tag.  But you got something that is even faster, better armored, and with the turret can effectively kite an enemy.  Firing while at full sprint away.  It even has a shorter theoretical logistics tail, a big chunk of the extra cost is the fusion engine (coming in at the exact 20% hovercraft minimum) so you can ditch the POL for more ammo haulers.

monbvol

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #126 on: 01 July 2020, 13:32:27 »
There's a huge amount of units available in BattleTech and some people like them for different reasons, maybe the picture or the name or that it has a cool weapon they like, whatever. If someone asks advice on using them, I'm glad to oblige, even if it's a unit I personally dislike or think is a poor one.

Telling people, 'Use something else' is a pretty damned lazy response to a request for help in a game where we can all use a few more good gamers to join us. If someone asked about the Hoplite, I'd tell them how best to utilize it, not 'Get a Griffin'.

I'm sure there are some other ways to use the Yellow Jacket successfully than what I did and I hope that the posters in this thread can come up with some creative ways to help out the OP.

I get what you're trying to say but ultimately at some point there are just going to be bad designs that are best left in the hangers if you have any choice in the matter and that we have so many alternatives to choose from actually supports such a principle.

That said Hoplite versus Griffin is a bad comparison.  I'd say a better one would be Urbanmech versus Panther.

Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #127 on: 01 July 2020, 13:54:29 »
It definitely shows that the Yellowjacket can be used well - which is more than its detractors are willing to admit so far.

actually, it shows that with a preferentially biased engagement against an opponent whose primary weapons are short ranged and whose chassis are slow, it can be used adequately given sufficient dice luck, and the other side lacks mobile fire-support.

Grasshopper, Atlas, Atlas, wolverine.

Okay, that's a brawling lance right there.  The mechanics of Battletech's vehicle rules put the Fury at 4/6 on a good day, so out of that whole force, the fastest unit is 5/8, and most of it is 3/5 with one 4/6 outlier.

this is one step up from urbies in a mud-bog, esp. if there was any sort of terrain on the field.  Notably, as well, there is no description of the map-sheet used, but since it's a quickie game, it's probably one or two sheets total, or it would take forever for those slow moving 'mechs to get to the merge (that is, the range at which weapons fire actually starts delivering hit results.)

esp with any sort of terrain involved.  analysis of the hit tables and rules (and some experience playing the actual game) shows that under Total Warfare rules, the ideal use of a tank (even a Fury) is to park it on a piece of terrain and let hits soak into the wheels and suspension.  this is the most likely use those two saw in this match, which isn't really the best way to USE a tank, but it is the way the hit tables and game rules as they currently sit, are designed around-unless I miss my guess, most of that match came down to stationary to-hit rolls, and even if they didn't, the opfor was specifically designed to be unable to pursue or press an attack.   It's the sort of arrangemetn that gives the initiative to the other guy immediately, and is custom-built for glass cannon fire-support machines, since they can't be threatened.

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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #128 on: 01 July 2020, 14:28:19 »
You can counter even for the best bet, if you knew it would be opposing you and you could bring the countermeasure before the battle. Although just one battle report doesn't brings the sure proof, but 'it is weak because it is weak against this' kind of argument is somewhat cheap.

After all, is there anyone that denies that Yellow Jacket is a niche unit? Being a niche unit, it surely have a grave weakness.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #129 on: 01 July 2020, 14:34:21 »
Anyway, it would be interesting to play it against the force that some brings gauss or Clans ER PPC. As you know, that's what Yellow Jacket is expected to be faced and survive against of it.

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #130 on: 01 July 2020, 14:36:31 »
Its funny that it was supposed to face the clans when, to me, the best place for it to have success is in the Chaos March where its a fairly cheap vehicle with a Small ICE engine & yet sports a piece of potent long range firepower that will let it kill L1-Intro tech mechs freely.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #131 on: 01 July 2020, 14:43:53 »
Its funny that it was supposed to face the clans when, to me, the best place for it to have success is in the Chaos March where its a fairly cheap vehicle with a Small ICE engine & yet sports a piece of potent long range firepower that will let it kill L1-Intro tech mechs freely.

Perhaps, that's the REASON to making such a weird fire platform I think. Gauss and Clans ER PPC of Clans Omnimechs are able to kill most of random Inner Sphere mechs by once in distance. So, I think that it would be the answer of such a long ranged direct damage. It is no wonder that it has a gauss rifle, for the same range is required to retaliate against them. And, with their one hard punch, it would be more threatening against the mechs than small caliber ACs that has similar range and LRM. That's why its developers are pick a gauss rifle rather than a barrage of LRMs, I think.

monbvol

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #132 on: 01 July 2020, 14:48:56 »
Its funny that it was supposed to face the clans when, to me, the best place for it to have success is in the Chaos March where its a fairly cheap vehicle with a Small ICE engine & yet sports a piece of potent long range firepower that will let it kill L1-Intro tech mechs freely.

As much as manufacturers inside the Chaos March were not known for producing invasion era tech many mercs and house units being sent into the area at the time brought such things with them.

Even for Introtech LRMs aren't a bad response and are pretty common.

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #133 on: 01 July 2020, 15:41:39 »
There's a huge amount of units available in BattleTech and some people like them for different reasons, maybe the picture or the name or that it has a cool weapon they like, whatever. If someone asks advice on using them, I'm glad to oblige, even if it's a unit I personally dislike or think is a poor one.

Telling people, 'Use something else' is a pretty damned lazy response to a request for help in a game where we can all use a few more good gamers to join us. If someone asked about the Hoplite, I'd tell them how best to utilize it, not 'Get a Griffin'.

I'm sure there are some other ways to use the Yellow Jacket successfully than what I did and I hope that the posters in this thread can come up with some creative ways to help out the OP.
The OP didn't ask for help, per sey.  OP merely asked if the Yellow Jacket is viable.  At its simplest, that can be answered in one word.  For the base version, anyways...

And I feel the other posters deserve a bit of credit: using them to discreetly kill off your more troublesome cadets and officers by assigning them to the YJ is a creative use of the machine.

Greatclub

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #134 on: 01 July 2020, 16:11:22 »
Funny idea. The YJ was supposed to be a chopper capable of surviving a clan PPC, right? Now with invincible rotors it's even better at that than when it was designed?

Hellstar VS equal BV of Yellowjacket. I'd put my money on the 'star, but not it getting away anything resembling clean.
« Last Edit: 01 July 2020, 16:20:26 by Greatclub »

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #135 on: 01 July 2020, 18:25:04 »
That sounds like fun.
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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #136 on: 01 July 2020, 19:11:19 »
3,084 x1 Hellstar

782 x4 Yellow Jacket (44 BV over, but I think we can let that side-slip, hah!, Pun!)

I think I'd bet on the Hellstar too, but like you say -- not in clean condition.

Not counting dice gods btw, I mean discounting, whatever.
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Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #137 on: 01 July 2020, 22:41:41 »
3,084 x1 Hellstar

782 x4 Yellow Jacket (44 BV over, but I think we can let that side-slip, hah!, Pun!)

I think I'd bet on the Hellstar too, but like you say -- not in clean condition.

Not counting dice gods btw, I mean discounting, whatever.

why not test it against what it's claimed to be designed to fight?

A Clan force.
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Elmoth

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #138 on: 02 July 2020, 00:08:55 »
So 5 hellstars. 3084*5 = 5420.
15420÷782 = 19.7.

Ok. 19 yellow jackets vs a Nightstar star. Add a few infantry to make up the difference.

Not how I would use yellow jackets, that are a support unit not a main battle one, but hey. There is a few of them

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« Last Edit: 02 July 2020, 00:20:02 by Elmoth »

Greatclub

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #139 on: 02 July 2020, 00:45:20 »
I think he's talking about the pilot. In which case it's adding another Jellowbucket and a couple better p/g, but killing them marginally faster.

I don't think they can win that fight either, which considering it's near-ideal opposition for the design is telling.

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #140 on: 02 July 2020, 01:32:36 »
No idea since I know almost nothing about Kerensky's tantrum mechs. Maybe we should put them against a mixed clan star then. They will probably lose as well, but then this is NOT the ideal role of the jackets. They seem to be support units, not main battle ones. So outing them in a main battle role and having them perform decently is more than enough.

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #141 on: 02 July 2020, 07:03:37 »
So keep the more or less equal BV, but IS should have at least 4 YJ's (if going up against a full star).

20 (just give them one more!) YJ v. 5 HS -- well the armor will hold up against one ER PPC.

Maybe find a mech that only carries one ER PPC or Gauss Rifle? ... Nova __ um, poop, not looking it up now.

4 on one mech is asking for something to be atomized.
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Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #142 on: 02 July 2020, 07:08:27 »
So 5 hellstars. 3084*5 = 5420.
15420÷782 = 19.7.

Ok. 19 yellow jackets vs a Nightstar star. Add a few infantry to make up the difference.

Not how I would use yellow jackets, that are a support unit not a main battle one, but hey. There is a few of them

Cheers
Xavi

not really a fair test for the Yellowjackets unless you do it with terrain.  VTOL units are one of those that need lots of vertical terrain to really shine.

My own idea would be a modified Goat Path challenge, but yellowjackets for the VTOL unit and Clan forces for the ground unit.

this has the added benefit of giving the Jellowbucket player a reasonable chance of winning, since the terrain works against a lot of Clan advantages (Except mobility).

given the lower BV for light Clan units, (relatively lower-lower compared to other Clan units) it's a more honest test than picking an optimized unit (even inner sphere) like the Nightstar.

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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #143 on: 02 July 2020, 07:20:45 »
I don't think that only spams Yellow Jacket is the supposed use of them, although 'shoot and run' tactics do works thanks to their capable moves(move 6 hexes backward is not that bad consider it is a flying unit).

Rather, I'd attach a platoon or two of them to a battlemech lance, demi-company, or a company, and use them as the DMR. Usually they will fire back against the Clans force first, while the other mechs are advance with Yellow Jacket's covering fire.

Without good weapon to threaten Clans Omnimech in distance, their ER PPC and Gauss Rifles easily slaughter invasion era mechs in distance. But with such mobile Gauss Rifle platform, IS forces at least have a punch while advance rather than simply offer the target practice dummy to the enemy. Rather than simply rush to the enemy and got slaughtered, at least it forces the clanner two choices - keep slaughtering my mechs while leaves my Yellow Jackes and got slammed by them freely as well, or try to harass Yellow Jackets and reduce the bullets toward my mechs.

Also, with good range, it can be combined with hit and run tactics as well. With Mechs with LRMs, they can shoot them in distance once and run for their lives, until they are exhausted. Some of them - which is lighter and faster - can be close to the Yellow Jacket and try to dispatch such flies with heavy gun, and that's what your mechs are really want to be - to circling the enemy in close range and finish off it.

Anyway, it is not so good unit to work along, but it may viable with a team because it is more like the specialized weapon.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2020, 07:23:40 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #144 on: 02 July 2020, 07:30:52 »
I don't think that only spams Yellow Jacket is the supposed use of them, although 'shoot and run' tactics do works thanks to their capable moves(move 6 hexes backward is not that bad consider it is a flying unit).

Rather, I'd attach a platoon or two of them to a battlemech lance, demi-company, or a company, and use them as the DMR. Usually they will fire back against the Clans force first, while the other mechs are advance with Yellow Jacket's covering fire.

Without good weapon to threaten Clans Omnimech in distance, their ER PPC and Gauss Rifles easily slaughter invasion era mechs in distance. But with such mobile Gauss Rifle platform, IS forces at least have a punch while advance rather than simply offer the target practice dummy to the enemy. Rather than simply rush to the enemy and got slaughtered, at least it forces the clanner two choices - keep slaughtering my mechs while leaves my Yellow Jackes and got slammed by them freely as well, or try to harass Yellow Jackets and reduce the bullets toward my mechs.

Also, with good range, it can be combined with hit and run tactics as well. With Mechs with LRMs, they can shoot them in distance once and run for their lives, until they are exhausted. Some of them - which is lighter and faster - can be close to the Yellow Jacket and try to dispatch such flies with heavy gun, and that's what your mechs are really want to be - to circling the enemy in close range and finish off it.

Anyway, it is not so good unit to work along, but it may viable with a team because it is more like the specialized weapon.

except their 'shoot and run' only works against slow opposition saddled with a dominance of short range weapons.  Which isn't really the milieu the fluff claims for them.  (They really are NOT fast enough to pull it off except against line-of-steel walking tactics that heavily rely on short range weapons.)

Tactically, the YJ is a niche unit-with an extremely narrow niche.  I basically outlined a scenario BUILT for them (the Goat Path challenge) and in my runs, against players (not Princess) it's only about a 50% success rate on a map and in a scenario where other, lighter, faster, VTOLs outright dominate all opposition (including opposition equipped with LBX autocannons).

this is what makes the Yellowjacket a fundamentally bad design-you have to build the whole scenario and situation around it if you expect to face competent opponents across the table.

this basically puts it in the same position as the Urbanmech-you can WIN with urbies on your team, but for them to be the deciding factor you have to build the entire scenario around urbie performance issues.

the scenarios I outlined earlier in this thread, are all heavily slanted to give the yellowjacket player a win. the one-off scenario given later by (can't find the post now) also is heavily slanted to the yellowjacket's favor.

statistically, any situation where you're going to see VTOLs in use, will be on the lighter side of the ledger with a predominance of light to mediums or mediums and fast heavies, not slow moving assaults slanted to heavy short-range firepower.  against a combined arms player, (say, someone running a dirtbag militia) it's even WORSE-because you can't leverage higher P/Gs for your Yellowjackets than your opponent due to mister gauss rifle.

and god help you if you DO take them up against a competent Clan player.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2020, 07:37:59 by Cannonshop »
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #145 on: 02 July 2020, 07:46:41 »
except their 'shoot and run' only works against slow opposition saddled with a dominance of short range weapons.  Which isn't really the milieu the fluff claims for them.  (They really are NOT fast enough to pull it off except against line-of-steel walking tactics that heavily rely on short range weapons.)

Tactically, the YJ is a niche unit-with an extremely narrow niche.  I basically outlined a scenario BUILT for them (the Goat Path challenge) and in my runs, against players (not Princess) it's only about a 50% success rate on a map and in a scenario where other, lighter, faster, VTOLs outright dominate all opposition (including opposition equipped with LBX autocannons).

this is what makes the Yellowjacket a fundamentally bad design-you have to build the whole scenario and situation around it if you expect to face competent opponents across the table.

this basically puts it in the same position as the Urbanmech-you can WIN with urbies on your team, but for them to be the deciding factor you have to build the entire scenario around urbie performance issues.



Just for run, 6/9 movement that ignores any terrains is already enough to run away from a heavy to assault mechs. It is actually faster than some heavier mediums as well, for most 50 to 55 tons mediums are only have 5/8(/5).

It is not expected to be survive against fast mediums and lights anyways, and it is the other friend's duty to cut them down before they can do something to their Yellow Jacket friend. At first, I don't think that most officers are crazy enough to NOT attach any 'escorts'(ironically, it IS the escorts for the most forces actually) to them even if they can. Also, concentrated fire of gauss rifle shots is a serious threat against lights as well.

And, who denies that it is a niche design? It is, and we all know that build the force around it is already a problem on it if we use it heavily.




Cannonshop

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #146 on: 02 July 2020, 08:16:13 »
Just for run, 6/9 movement that ignores any terrains is already enough to run away from a heavy to assault mechs. It is actually faster than some heavier mediums as well, for most 50 to 55 tons mediums are only have 5/8(/5).

It is not expected to be survive against fast mediums and lights anyways, and it is the other friend's duty to cut them down before they can do something to their Yellow Jacket friend. At first, I don't think that most officers are crazy enough to NOT attach any 'escorts'(ironically, it IS the escorts for the most forces actually) to them even if they can. Also, concentrated fire of gauss rifle shots is a serious threat against lights as well.

And, who denies that it is a niche design? It is, and we all know that build the force around it is already a problem on it if we use it heavily.

my point is,instead of being an adjunct that enhances your forces, the Yellowjacket becomes the center of your forces and everyone else becomes the adjunct.

it's really the only way to make it work.  It has to be the center of both your using forces, and the forces on the other side have to be pretty specifically designed to be vulnerable to it.

which makes it not a good niche unit, just that it can be adequate in that niche-assuming all factors in the engagement are prearranged to suit it.

as I said before, I can use Ferrets, Cavalry, H8, H10, Pinto, Ripper, and so on as an adjunct to a force, and do well with them as supporting players, it's actually hard to arrange things to make those designs utterly useless.  it's EASY to make a yellowjacket useless by comparison.

How? get something on it that can threaten it.  and by 'something' I mean virtually any VTOL except a Karnov (which is unarmed in the base model) or other unarmed unit in the same movement class, or any 'mech that can go at or above the same listed speed.  even bug-'mechs, or anything armed with an LBX, HAG, or other cluster weapon with range.

my fave for this demonstration is the pathetic little old LRM carrier, but this can be done with SRM carriers too, or (god forbid) light vehicles-because the YJ is a light vehicle.

other favorites include VTOLs considered borderline useless for other roles, like the Mantis.  a Mantis can make providing that fire-support nearly impossible.  even going one on two vs a Yellowjacket.

but then, I tend to be a movement player, and avoid 'stand at medium rolling dice' whenever possible.  in a sense, the Yellowjacket is an exercise in showing why going to the top of the weight class with VTOLs isn't necessarily the best idea, or even a good idea outside of a specialist transport model. (and then, only if your intent is to get a one-use APC to move a company of infantry a little bit closer to the front.)
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #147 on: 02 July 2020, 09:08:04 »
Sure it is best if you build around them. But, anyway adding a platoon of Yellow Jacket escorts seems a capable ranged support for a company. It isn't a big investment that much, consider its very cheap cost. Is it such a big deal if you only have such a cheap but fragile gun platform, despite it doesn't have much portion on entire of your force? And I bet that it would be better than infantry gun at least.

And it is also one of the most cheaper way to bring a mobile gauss rifle platform. If you build around a force of the cheap gunline of gauss rifle, it is the most viable choice for it is the most cheap choice among the others(Hollander and Regunator), doesn't pick the terrain and easy to deploy.

Sir Chaos

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #148 on: 02 July 2020, 09:28:48 »
actually, it shows that with a preferentially biased engagement against an opponent whose primary weapons are short ranged and whose chassis are slow, it can be used adequately given sufficient dice luck, and the other side lacks mobile fire-support.

Sure, every unit gets the best results if the circumstances of the engagement favor its capabilities.

So what? Every other unit also sucks if the circumstances of the engagement work against it. Do you have a point you would like to make here?

Quote
Grasshopper, Atlas, Atlas, wolverine.

Okay, that's a brawling lance right there.  The mechanics of Battletech's vehicle rules put the Fury at 4/6 on a good day, so out of that whole force, the fastest unit is 5/8, and most of it is 3/5 with one 4/6 outlier.

For introtech, yes. With the technology of the era in which Yellowjackets are available, there´s plenty of long-ranged Atlas designs available, so we don´t know which ones the opposition brought. If they were AS7-K, that´s four units out of six who can each match a Yellowjacket gauss slug for gauss slug.


I mean, I get it. You don´t like the Yellowjacket. That´s your right, of course. But that doesn´t mean anyone else here has to agree with you just because you say something.

The Yellowjacket is a fire support unit, and it has the same weaknesses that a lot of other fire support units - the JaegerMech and LRM Carrier come to mind - suffer from: Low speed and fragility - though it´s still faster than most other fire support units and tougher than most helos. And, like any other fire support unit, it can be effective as long as it is used right, which primarily means "as long as the enemy mostly fires at something else", which any competent player as several ways of influencing.
"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl."
-Frederick the Great

"Ultima Ratio Regis" ("The Last Resort of the King")
- Inscription on cannon barrel, 18th century

Gigastrike

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Re: How to use yellowjackets in combat.
« Reply #149 on: 02 July 2020, 09:56:34 »
I recently encountered a Yellow Jacket (with RAC/5) for the first time, while playing Roguetech.  Of all the vehicles that made up the OpFor, the Yellow Jacket was certainly the one that gave me the most pause.  And I can't speak very well for how well it actually performed, as, on one hand the RAC/5 is roughly twice the strength in this mod, but on the other hand the weapon misfired early and destroyed itself, but I can certainly tell that it's a threatening and cheap unit.I don't know so well how useful they would be in a regular game, but from the perspective of a campaign-focused player, I think it was very interesting. 

So, IMO, the best way to use a Yellow Jacket is as part of a counter-player force that cares about its own survival far less than forcing the player to have to repair units between missions.

 

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