Resin Overlord - IS Version?

[GRUD]

Any word on if the Resin Overlord - IS Version will be available again?   ???


Some surat beat me to the ONE they put out at Gen Con this year.   >:(


 ;D




((No, I'm not really mad about it, Honest!  ;) ))

[Mimo]

If I remember me right they search for a new producer of resin models because of the very changing quality of the old ones

[speck]

I will check on an update

[GRUD]

Thanks!  O0

[jazzjr]

Any updates?

[speck]

We are still down for the count on this one. We are hoping to find a solution soon, but have been busy with other projects.

[Stjames]

We are still down for the count on this one. We are hoping to find a solution soon, but have been busy with other projects.

Can you give us info on the Union class as well, when you get around to it?

[Dr Lucky]

Can you give us info on the Union class as well, when you get around to it?

I keep checking IWM's site every few days, hoping the Union will be back.  I really regret not buying one a month or two ago.

[Stjames]

You know it. my wife  said get now and I said next payday and then they were out  :(

[speck]

These Dropships are in limbo right now, due to the poor quality of the company that has been producing them. I know its on Mikes list to address but they have been busier then normal this time of the year.

[Lord Cameron]

These Dropships are in limbo right now, due to the poor quality of the company that has been producing them. I know its on Mikes list to address but they have been busier then normal this time of the year.

 >:(
I hope it can be done soon.  :'(

Does that mean that the Leopard & Broadsword have been poor quality too?

[Stjames]

>:(
I hope it can be done soon.  :'(

Does that mean that the Leopard & Broadsword have been poor quality too?

Even if that is so, I will buy them anyway. They can be used as older and bang-up DropShips it will at some character to the old gal.

[Jal Phoenix]

Even if that is so, I will buy them anyway. They can be used as older and bang-up DropShips it will at some character to the old gal.

If they're anything like the mangled versions I've gotten before, then they're not even worth that.  The problem was misalignment of the halves, not pockmarks or melting issues.  It's been present on all the Unions and Overlords I've gotten.  On some it's small enough to correct with some light sanding, but on one it was an eighth of an inch, making it completely unusable.  Then there was the problem with the Overlords of the three pieces not lining up properly, which could be made even worse with mold alignment issues.  Though the models are beautiful when finished, they take a whole lot of work to get there.  If IWM is holding off on more until the manufacturer can fix their quality issues, it can only be a good thing. 

[Stjames]

Just looking to see if there is any update or word on the I.S. Resin Overlord and Union Version will be available again.  ::)

[speck]

Just sent a request for the latest update............

[speck]

I have heard back from Mike that they found a new resin company and will be sending them masters. I will let everyone know when they are back instock.

[Jal Phoenix]

Excellent1  I still need a Union and IS Overlord.

[wackrabbit]

>:(
I hope it can be done soon.  :'(

Does that mean that the Leopard & Broadsword have been poor quality too?

Not the ones I have. :)

[speck]

>:(
I hope it can be done soon.  :'(

Does that mean that the Leopard & Broadsword have been poor quality too?

They only sell the best ones out of the lot they receive. IWM have to do the quality control themselves .

[qc mech3]

Does that mean that the Leopard & Broadsword have been poor quality too?

From my experience, the Leopard was good but with thin wings that were easily breached and the Broadsword is perfect

[Wotan]

From my experience, the Leopard was good but with thin wings that were easily breached and the Broadsword is perfect

+1

[TS_Hawk]

hmm I can't find the thread about the Mechscale Leopard so out of curiousity whats going on with the Resin Overlord and the Leopard?

[speck]

No new information yet, hoping to find out tomorrow.

[Jimmy B]

Ok, I knew about the Leopard, but did not know any others ever got done. 
Are there images of these somewhere?
I just started a project to build my own mech scale dropships,
which I posted in another thread.  If I could knock out
two more without having to build them myself,
that would be awesome.

[Sigma]

The ones being talked about in this thread are mapscale (1/3 mechscale).

Only the Leopard has been made in Mechscale (2 different versions in fact).  You can get the DA Aurora in N-scale though.

[Jimmy B]

The DA Aurora is the one thing from dark Age that I actually liked. So I have it.  :)
I did not know there were two versions of the Leopard though.
Unless you look at older stuff by other companies, I know
there is a ceramic leopard and union out there, but I think
I would be afraid of those breaking.

[whytwolf]

Here's a couple of pictures of my Mech scale resin and foam Leopard; got as a sportsmanship award when I participated in "Kings and Pawns" way back when.

[Jimmy B]

Could you tell me the overall Dims?  In Inches?  I have a project Im working on
(Listed in terrain forum) And this would help me decide on my scale.

Thanks.

[Cerberus_02]

Here's a couple of pictures of my Mech scale resin and foam Leopard

It's not hollow, or is it?

[whytwolf]

Solid.

[GOTHIK]

I'd really like to get another Union and two Overlords!
*keeps fingers crossed!!!

[Jimmy B]

Can you post a pic of your Union with Dimensions?
Im looking for any examples I can find.

[GOTHIK]

any update yet, Speck?

[speck]

any update yet, Speck?

I asked mike about it and he said that the last batch from the current manufacturer was completely rejected due to such poor quality. He sent masters out to another company and we are waiting to hear back from them. He was going to send a follow up email to them to get a status.

[GOTHIK]

cool.  thanks for the update!

[scatcat]

Hopefully Unions and Overlords return soon. I needs me some spheroids.

[FLAKPANZER]

Yep. I waited to long on this, too. Now can't wait for the new ones.

[GOTHIK]

I asked mike about it and he said that the last batch from the current manufacturer was completely rejected due to such poor quality. He sent masters out to another company and we are waiting to hear back from them. He was going to send a follow up email to them to get a status.

Any word on this yet?

[Dr Lucky]

A few Unions became available when all the Ral Partha Europe resin buildings went on the site.  One of them was just delivered to my house a few hours ago.  They seem to already be sold out again.

[GOTHIK]

f*$k!  I wish I had known.

[FLAKPANZER]

Correction to my previous post.

In looking through my closet today, I found a box from Ironwind from late 2010 or early 2011 that
had an unassembled Union, a couple of Rommel/Patton tanks, and a couple of Rievers in it.

I guess I did order them quite a while back and just forgot. It feels like Christmas.

[Dr Lucky]

Correction to my previous post.

In looking through my closet today, I found a box from Ironwind from late 2010 or early 2011 that
had an unassembled Union, a couple of Rommel/Patton tanks, and a couple of Rievers in it.

I guess I did order them quite a while back and just forgot. It feels like Christmas.

That is why I put all my miniatures into a spreadsheet.  I hate wondering "I think I wanted another Catapult.  Did I ever buy that?"

[GRUD]

That is why I put all my miniatures into a spreadsheet.  I hate wondering "I think I wanted another Catapult.  Did I ever buy that?"

My "Spreadsheet" is a Word Document.   :D  It works as well as any list, I guess.  It's only as Accurate as I make it.  I've already found a few of my numbers off just last night.   :-[  I've filled one "Medium Flat Rate Box" (Priority Mail), that's 11" long, 8 &1/2" wide, and 5 &1/2" tall, and took inventory as I filled it.  I've labeled the box and typed up an Inventory Sheet to print out and put inside it.   O0  I've got a 2nd box the same size I'm about to start filling with Aerospace minis, that I'm fairly sure will be at least 3/4 full of blisters by the time I'm finished.  Some of them are the old RP blisters/cards, so they're larger than the newer ones by IWM.  Then I've got a 3rd box I'll be putting ground vees in, with 'Mechs on top, that I'm pretty sure I'll fill.  I'm Glad I've got a comfortable computer chair, because my bed's been covered with minis since Monday night.  #P

[FLAKPANZER]

I need to start doing that.

Fortunately, I have a lot of plastics from 3rd Edition and a couple sets from the current Introductory Box,
but fairly few metal minis, so it wouldn't be that hard to catalog right now.

[GRUD]

I need to start doing that.

Fortunately, I have a lot of plastics from 3rd Edition and a couple sets from the current Introductory Box,
but fairly few metal minis, so it wouldn't be that hard to catalog right now.

Go! NOW! Do it now!!   ;D  Start your inventory NOW, before it gets very big.  It's a shame I didn't start mine around December of 2000.  #P  I think I started mine in late '05 or early '06. [metalhealth]

[Dr Lucky]

Go! NOW! Do it now!!   ;D  Start your inventory NOW, before it gets very big.  It's a shame I didn't start mine around December of 2000.  #P  I think I started mine in late '05 or early '06. [metalhealth]

Seriously, GRUD is right.  Do this immediately.  The longer you wait, the harder it is to go back and get it done accurately.

Having this stuff in a spreadsheet is super useful - I have a columns for name, weight, faction, which TRO, even how far along in painting is it.  I can resort the sheet by faction if I want to organize a game, or sort only the painted 'Mechs if I want to go play a game in our local FLGS and want things to look good.  I can find out how many of a given 'Mech I have, and which faction I have them painted as.  Being able to sort the sheet for all this info lets me keep good track of this stuff.  It's way more useful than I realized at first.

[GOTHIK]

wow.  I really thought I was the only one that was THAT anal about My inventory, Dr Lucky.  Glad to see that's not the case.  ;)

[Jimmy B]

Have to have a list. I use an Excel document. Currently my list only shows
the original FASA products and Ral Partha miniatures. But to my knowledge
I have the most complete list of the original FASA Battletech products, to
include every Miniature part number that has been re-used, some up to 3 times.

I have only recently finished getting the last couple pieces I need to complete
that collection and have started compiling a new list for "Classic Battletech"

Although, Im not sure how we got on this topic, We were talking about
resin dropships  :P

[GRUD]

Mine is fairly simple, especially since I mainly only have minis from TRO 2750, 3025 & 3026.  Other than that, the newer ones I have are either the IIC sculpts (mainly Unseen), Quads, or T-Bolts.  Sadly, I probably have more MIB than painted, mainly because aside from TWO, any that I've got that are painted were like that when I bought them.  Sure, I've got several that I primered in white YEARS ago, but I think I painted my 1st mini, a Raven, around '86. The second one I just painted in July of '08.  :-[  Here's some examples of how I do mine.


Bishamon BSN-3K  (20-636) - (4)
Black Angel- (1) (Limited Edition, Privately Produced Mini - From Rad of LotB)
Black Knight  (20-774) - (2)  (1 Loose + 1 MIB [2 Total] )
----
----
Centurion  (20-849) - (1)
Centurion [RAC Variant]  (FT-001) - (1)
Centurion [RAC Variant]  (20-452) - (1)  (MIB – Same sculpt as the FT-001 mini, but added to the main line of minis.)
Cestus CST-35 *  (20-814)  (BattleDroids Version!) - (1)  (OOP)
Chameleon  (20-697) -
----
----
Mandrill *  (WRP-008) - (1)  (MIB)  (Same mini as 20-652, except comes with a hex base)  (OOP)
Mandrill *  (20-652) - (1)  (MIB - Hole In Blister)  (OOP)
----
----
Phoenix Hawk LAM PHX-HK2 * (1st Sculpt)  (20-884) - (1)  (OOP)
Phoenix Hawk LAM * (2nd Sculpt - Crescent Hawks model) (INFOCOM Special) - (1)  [No Actual Stock Number]  (OOP)  (Painted in CH colors by rpgsheets)
Phoenix Hawk LAM * (3rd Sculpt)  (20-884) - (2)  (1 Loose, 1 MIB!!)  (OOP)


I have a few Limited Edition, Privately Made minis, and credit the creator if I know who it is.  I use the * to indicate an Unseen sculpt, in the first case one of the BD sculpts, in the 2nd, the Mandrills.  I only put MIB after the ones that are MIB, otherwise I know it's Loose.  In the case of the Black Knight I know I've got 1 Loose and 1 MIB.  I don't have a number after the Chameleon, because while I KNOW I've got at least 1 of them, I haven't found it while doing inventory.  :-\  The Mandrills are one of those oddballs they packaged with and without a hex base.  I understand they did several others, but I'm not sure which ones. I think they did the Snow Fox like that, but I'm not really sure.  A few years ago I found out through Dave Fanjoy's website that there were 3 sculpts made of the PH LAM, and eventually was able to get the other 2.  I've had the Infocom Special since whenever the computer game came out. I Finally got it painted a few months ago, and it looks Frikkin' SWEET!  8)  Aside from the ones that are Pro painted, I don't keep track of what's painted or not.  I've got 2 by Fanjoy, 2 by Wackrabbit, the 1 by rpgsheets, and a few by Paintman44Jay, to name a few. Even then the PH LAM is the only one I've got that I've indicated what the paintjob is.



@Jimmy B - You may want to get with Jal Phoenix then.  He's got a HUGE list of BT Products, also in an Excel document.  :o  It's VERY thorough!   O0

[Jimmy B]

Thanks, I will look up Jal. If he has a good start point for me on the newer "Classic" Battletech from 2000 forward that would be great.  My list is old school, but extremely thorough.

In regards to your Phoenix Hawks. Make sure you have them listed correctly, as they are very commonly miss labled
on E-Bay.  The 1st edition is the one with separate arms, just like the Special edition model. It is odd, because it
is the only re-sculpt that Ive seen where the later version was simpler having a single piece lower body. And
congrats on having the special edition, most people are unaware it even exists, hehe.

[Cambo]

I know you guys are busy with convention season Speck, but any word on the Dropships?  It's been a month ;)

[GOTHIK]

the amount of interest in these couple of items is absolutely amazing!

[Dragon41673]

Speck...what's the word on the dropships???

[GOTHIK]

almost another 30 days ... maybe these are being sculpted/cast by the same guys who are working on Interstellar Operations.  ;)  hahaha!

[Stormlion1]

Or speck is tired of us asking and ignoring us. ;)

[GOTHIK]

haha ... maybe.

[speck]

Only new news is that we will have some Broadsword, Leopard, and Radar dishes for Gen Con in small numbers. We are still working with the new manufacturer, but will not have any before Gen Con. Going to get an update when I am out there in August.

[GOTHIK]

thanks for everything you do for Us, Speck!

[StCptMara]

Only new news is that we will have some Broadsword, Leopard, and Radar dishes for Gen Con in small numbers. We are still working with the new manufacturer, but will not have any before Gen Con. Going to get an update when I am out there in August.

OK..so: if I want an Overlord, I have to storm the IWM booth instead of the CGL booth?

[speck]

OK..so: if I want an Overlord, I have to storm the IWM booth instead of the CGL booth?

You can try, but you are not going to find any. As of now the only map scale drop ships at gen con will be the two I mentioned above. The new supplier has not begun production yet.

[GRUD]

OK..so: if I want an Overlord, I have to storm the IWM booth instead of the CGL booth?

You can try, but you are not going to find any. As of now the only map scale drop ships at gen con will be the two I mentioned above. The new supplier has not begun production yet.

And if you do something goofy like take prisoners and start demanding things, to the point where it impedes mini sales, some Con Goers might jump ya' and give you a butt whippin' ! 


Not ME of course.  I'm talking about people that can actually Fight.  :D    But I'll be cheering them on!  [watch]


 ;D


Please refrain from storming the IWM Booth until late Thursday afternoon, or early evening.  O0

[Stormlion1]

If your buying things, I don't think IWM will mind if you storm there booth.

[GRUD]

If your buying things, I don't think IWM will mind if you storm there booth.

Usually though, the act of "storming" a structure involves taking over and generally disrupting "Business As Usual".   Thus, the Act of Storming the IWM Booth at Gen Con is NOT a Good Thing.   #P   If necessary, Darth Vader, Boba Fett and a number of Stormtroopers may be called in to re-take the booth.  >:D   Maybe even Darth Maul and Jango Fett, should they be available.

[StCptMara]

Usually though, the act of "storming" a structure involves taking over and generally disrupting "Business As Usual".   Thus, the Act of Storming the IWM Booth at Gen Con is NOT a Good Thing.   #P   If necessary, Darth Vader, Boba Fett and a number of Stormtroopers may be called in to re-take the booth.  >:D   Maybe even Darth Maul and Jango Fett, should they be available.

Hey! last two GenCons I went to, my friends and I stormed the CGL booth! Didn't disrupt anything, but trying to get the stuff we were looking for before it vanished from other people getting to it first? That was a lulu! Thankfully, unlike 2009, last year they brought PLENTY of Wars of Reaving and Runner's Black Book(verses the handfuls of Eclipse Phase, the 25th Anniversary artbook, and Strat Ops, which all sold out fairly quickly in 2009)

[John_Hawk]

Speck,

Can you give us an update on the Overlord and Union?  Is there any chance that some might be available in time for the Christmas season?

[speck]

Speck,

Can you give us an update on the Overlord and Union?  Is there any chance that some might be available in time for the Christmas season?

I will inquire about it.

[jrvk777]

Could we kindly get an update on whether IWM is still planning on releasing new resin dropships? Thank you.

[speck]

Could we kindly get an update on whether IWM is still planning on releasing new resin dropships? Thank you.

Just sent the email asking for update.

[speck]

Mike should hear something soon about the Union and Overload. Details to follow once I have them.

[speck]

Just a FYI, check the web store out later tonight for the return of both Overlord and Union. More details to follow.

[scatcat]

Pure awesome

[Dragon41673]

Speck...how tall are the 2 overlord drop ships?

Also...is the union correct at 80mm tall? That would be just more than 3" tall...so I would have to guess these are not mech scale...but map scale correct?

[scatcat]

Speck, are the new Spheroids resin shells with closed cell foam interiors? How many pieces are the bodies?

Between these and Catapults all I need now are Tonbos and my order completes itself.

[speck]

Speck, are the new Spheroids resin shells with closed cell foam interiors? How many pieces are the bodies?

Between these and Catapults all I need now are Tonbos and my order completes itself.

They are one piece. I am waiting on some pictures of them from mike. I saw the rough prototype of them earlier in the year. They are one piece and made out of the closed-cell foam. It's defiantly not the same material as the old ones.

[Dragon41673]

Speck...any word on my questions?

[E. Icaza]

I've been waiting a while for these to come back.  Just ordered some and a crapload of BA.   O0

[scatcat]

They are one piece. I am waiting on some pictures of them from mike. I saw the rough prototype of them earlier in the year. They are one piece and made out of the closed-cell foam. It's defiantly not the same material as the old ones.

So if the bits are pewter and the body is foam, what parts are resin? Is this foam similar to that used on the Mech scale Leopard dropship?

[GOTHIK]

how readily available will the dropships be?  I may not be able to place My order until late January.  :(

[Stormlion1]

how readily available will the dropships be?  I may not be able to place My order until late January.  :(

I'm kind of curious about this as well. I was planning an order to be placed in a week or two myself. And If I can get me some dropships, all the better!

[speck]

how readily available will the dropships be?  I may not be able to place My order until late January.  :(

We got in around 25 of each. The ability to keep them in stock will depend on them filling mikes reorders. I have some questions sent in to him about them. But will not hear back until after New Years. I will post when I have more information.

[speck]

Speck...how tall are the 2 overlord drop ships?

Also...is the union correct at 80mm tall? That would be just more than 3" tall...so I would have to guess these are not mech scale...but map scale correct?

They are Map Scale Dropships, I would say the Union is close to the 3 inch mark. I don't have a assembled Overload at my house, but they are around 5 to 6 inches tall.

[Stormlion1]

How do they compare in scale to the old versions?

[speck]

How do they compare in scale to the old versions?

They are the same as the old resin ones. The production molds are made from the same master mold as the old ones. It's a completely new company that is making them.

[Stormlion1]

OK, thanks, when you said one piece and made from a diffrent material I kind of thought there may be some small diffrence in scale as well.

[Dragon41673]

They are Map Scale Dropships, I would say the Union is close to the 3 inch mark. I don't have a assembled Overload at my house, but they are around 5 to 6 inches tall.

Ok...thanks Speck!

[DarkSpade]

I'm concerned by the "foam" part.  That doesn't sound very durable.

[speck]

I'm concerned by the "foam" part.  That doesn't sound very durable.

They are, it's a hard foam. When I was out in August they had some test copies.

[DarkSpade]

They are, it's a hard foam. When I was out in August they had some test copies.

Never heard of it before.  How does it compare to resin?  Less or more brittle? Heavier or lighter?

[StCptMara]

Never heard of it before.  How does it compare to resin?  Less or more brittle? Heavier or lighter?

And how well does it hold paint?

[Stormlion1]

And how well does it hold paint?

Now this is the million dollar question!

[StCptMara]

Now this is the million dollar question!

I remember the OLD Resin miniatures for GW(the first generation Tyranid Biotanks and Eldar Falcon, etc)
that had the problem with the resin soaking the paint(and Primer!) up like a sponge. I am wondering if the foam ends
up like that, or like modern day resins...

[speck]

I am having one of each shipped out to me today. Once I have them, I will provide more details.

[GRUD]

Available Stock of the IS Overlord will be -1 once the Order Processing People at IWM get in this morning.   ^-^    Thanks!   O0

[speck]

See my post here for some early details of the New Closed Cell Foam Union and Overload dropships

[scatcat]

Excellent! I'll grab 2 Overlords once Tonbos arrive.

[DarkSpade]

Got my Union today.  The foam is solid and just from touching it I can tell this thing is going to hold paint well. Detail looks alright.  Overall, I don't see any issues with the material.

Only worry I've got  is the mold line. This isn't just some flash that has to be filed off. Looks like the 2 parts of the mold weren't quite lined up right.  Goes right through a turret(I think it's a turret) that'll need some green stuff thanks to a bubble.   I know IWM's got a good return policy so I guess right now it all depends on whether or not fixing it will be more of a hassle than sending it back. 

[GRUD]

I got my I.S. Overlord today (the 11th), and it looks Nice!   O0  As with DarkSpade's Union though, there's a mold line running about halfway down one side that will need some work, as well as numerous small/tiny holes and bubbles.  The only problem I can see is that I'm not sure if some of the bubbles are actually "bubbles" as in "Ooops!", or if they're Supposed to be there.   :o  There's a small one in the bottom center, between the 4 engine exhaust ports, for one.  Then there's 5 tiny ones spaced around the nose/top.  The confusion on those comes from the fact that there's Only 5, when it would seem to call for 8 if they were intentional.  ???  Looking at the "nose", it's divided into 4 quarters, and only one of those 4 quarters has 2 tiny bubbles, the other 3 only have 1 each.  If you look at the pic of the one on the website, it has 2 of the tiny bubbles in the same place mine does.  Then again, the one on the website also shows a few small holes, so it's not a "Picture Perfect" example, so again, I'm not sure if mine is supposed to have those tiny bubbles or not.   :-\


I'm still Very Happy with it though!  {>{>

[John_Hawk]

Got my overlord yesterday. It's lighter than the resin Union I had previously obtained.  There are some mold lines and tiny pitting in a few areas.  Overall, I'm very happy with the piece.  The biggest problem is that the engine assembly, which is slightly askew.  I can overlook it easily, and it will look great on the table.

I'm very glad IWM got them back in stock.

[John_Hawk]

Had some time today to try putting it together, and just dived in with some Locktite superglue.  There have so far been no signs of damage from the glue, but be quick - it seems to cure very, very quickly.

Fwiw, I really prefer the slit style legs used on the Overlord, as opposed to the ball and joint style on the Union.

[DarkSpade]

Just went ahead and gave fixing it a shot.   Wow this thing cleaned up easy.  My cheap knife has cut through mold lines on several metal minis recently, and it still went through this plastic like it was butter.  I wish my armorcast stuff had been this easy to clean up.

The turrets' barrels are still kinda jacked up, but I've got plenty of bits I can use to fix it.  This material should be a big hit with modders.

[Stjames]

Just like to know if they come in Mech Sale or just Map Sale?

[StCptMara]

Just like to know if they come in Mech Sale or just Map Sale?

Just Map Scale. To build them in 'mech scale would be crazy...

[Stjames]

http://ironwindmetals.com/d/files/Mech_Scale_Leopard.jpg
they had them back in 2011.

[cavingjan]

Leopard: yes
Overlord: no. That would be too big to use.

[Stormlion1]

An Overlord would be what, four feet high on the table? Yeah just a tad to big to use on the table top. A Union is ten levels high for Blakes sake.

[scatcat]

An Overlord would be what, four feet high on the table? Yeah just a tad to big to use on the table top. A Union is ten levels high for Blakes sake.

A Mech Scale Overlord will be roughly 1/2 a meter tall. Large, but not unmanageable.

[Jal Phoenix]

I considered making a 'Mech-scale Overlord once, back when I was making DropShips from globes.  I even found a larger globe to use as the base.  The project fell apart when I couldn't figure out what to use to make a decent looking cone for the top.  I could probably manage it today since I have a lot more skill, but I don't have that kind of energy anymore. 

[Wolverine]

I've made a pair of mech scale Unions, and always keep an eye open for a 22" or so tall shape to use as a mechscale (maybe a tad small, just for ease) Overlord hull, still looking at local craft stores, unfortunately for this I wouldn't trust to order it sight unseen thru the internet.
J