Author Topic: Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard  (Read 106702 times)

JAMES_PRYDE

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 919
  • Stephanie & Jiyi Chistu "Restoring Honor to CJF !"
    • Clan Jade Falcon:  SWTOR
Pfft. There's nothing new about that dusty old turkey. If anything, the Jade Phoenix fills that role.

But kind of, since Jiyi's attitude plus some, is more akin to it's era

Plus we have an abundance of them.
« Last Edit: 23 May 2024, 08:19:40 by JAMES_PRYDE »

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
Yeah, but the Bears also hold the Nova Cat in low regard and only assign it to warriors who are held in equally low regard because of the mech cooties.

Last I’ll say on the subject cause it’s getting off topic a bit: just because we ‘annihilated’ the Nova Cats and had huge amounts of war crimes didn’t mean we ‘Annihilated’ them. They at least got Abjurement (technically like all the IS Clans but let’s not talk about that lol). The Wolverines were Annihilated but somehow the Ravens made off with their mechs and suffered no real repercussions for it.

While the Shrike might not fit that mold exactly no one is saying Malvina and all her Mongols were annihilated. So while yes piloting one could cause others to assume you support their doctrine and policies it could also just be ‘hey it’s an assault mech’.

One could argue the same bias applied to the original Word of Blake mechs back when they were less Jihad-y. I mean the Scorpions (so far removed from the Inner Sphere) are using those mechs like the Nexus and Grand Crusader … while no one’s using the Archangel for exactly those reasons.

But kind of, since Jiyi's attitude plus some, is more akin to it's era

Plus we have an abundance of them.

IDK where the Jade Phoenix is being produced but Sudeten produces the Turkina so that’s also a thing.


EDIT: I think I have a problem: I’ve been hanging out with too many Falcons lol

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Checked Sarna for a moment and the Shrike is only build on Erewhon right? According to Sarna Erewhon is now a possesion of the Hell's Horses (oh the irony). So I would assume the Falcons will either mothball said Mech(for one maybe limited spare parts or making a clean break with Malvina the Mad), pilot them to pieces or open a new line on another planet.

The Horses will re-engineer the Shrike as a four-legged mech and keep the partial wing — the Jade Pegasus.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

jimdigris

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8816
IDK where the Jade Phoenix is being produced
Alyina

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
The Horses will re-engineer the Shrike as a four-legged mech and keep the partial wing — the Jade Pegasus.

Cutie Mark sold separately.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

MarauderD

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4061
Alyina

IIRC, the AML inherited all the new generation Falcon mechs with IJJ and insane mobility, is that right?  Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon, and Jade Phoenix all produced on Alyina?

Does that mean that the other Falcon factions (Star League and the Sudeten branch) won't have access to them in the long run?  I just started painting Star League Falcons, so my heart is hoping this won't prove to be correct.

ColBosch

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8817
  • Legends Never Die
IIRC, the AML inherited all the new generation Falcon mechs with IJJ and insane mobility, is that right?  Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon, and Jade Phoenix all produced on Alyina?

Does that mean that the other Falcon factions (Star League and the Sudeten branch) won't have access to them in the long run?  I just started painting Star League Falcons, so my heart is hoping this won't prove to be correct.

We simply don't know yet, but the SLDF Falcons likely have at least some of the Alyina-produced 'Mechs still.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

Church14

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1170
IIRC, the AML inherited all the new generation Falcon mechs with IJJ and insane mobility, is that right?  Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon, and Jade Phoenix all produced on Alyina?

Does that mean that the other Falcon factions (Star League and the Sudeten branch) won't have access to them in the long run?  I just started painting Star League Falcons, so my heart is hoping this won't prove to be correct.

Mechs - especially clan mechs - tend to be pretty hard to render unsalvageable. CASE II and integral CASE do wonders. I feel like it’s a safe bet that Terran falcons have enough falcon salvage to have those designs if they want them. Long term is another story, but we can’t predict that.

Though AML appears willing to sell, so my guess is the Terran falcons will eventually be able to buy some more.

Metallgewitter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1658
The question will rather be if the Remnant Falcon factions want anything to do with the "Malvina Falcons". And if they actually sell them Mechs and other stuff who will bring it to Terra? The corridor from the Falcon worlds to Terra doesn't look exactly safe. I would bet that at one point the Terran Falcons will more look like a Republic force (just like the Wolves if they can't reclaim their Empire). Furthermore the question still stands if they will even be Clan. From my understanding is that none of those Clans brought their Genetic repositories or even iron womb technology with them. So any Clan warrior that dies against the Capellans will be another hole that can't be closed quickly unless they recruit Terrans. I mean the Wolf Empire is basically using up all available trueborn recruits at a record pace(and by the end of Redemption Rioghts the assault from the League against the Empire is already 2 months on the way) and Jiyi had to raid the Bears to even get new blood for his "Clan". It doesn't look to good for a quick "repopulation" with trueborns (and I doubt the Bears will give up any of their warriors with their touman having lost a third of it's size thanks to a certain someone)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
One of my friends is trying to get back into painting and has offered to paint a star of Jade Falcon mechs for me as a way to get into practice.  He wants to paint up a Heirofalcon and a Jade Phoenix, both of which I have several minis of, but I'm wondering what other mechs to put in.  Was thinking of a Loki II.  He's intending it to be Jiyi's Falcons even though they don't have access to the Jade Phoenix or Heirofalcon.

Okay, ended up going with a Star consisting of a Jade Phoenix, Hierofalcon, Loki II, Gyrfalcon, and Hammerhead.

I have to say, putting the Gyrfalcon up next to the JP and Hierofalcon really shows how much IWM has changed its technique over the last decade.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1189
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
I think I know what you mean. I have the Gyrfalcon and the Hierofalcon, and it is not a fair comparison between the two. I had a Dominator come in the same order and I remember being very impressed with IWM. I assume the JP is of the same vein as the Hiero?
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
Yes.  The Jade Phoenix and Hierofalcon both look so much better than the Gyrfalcon.

And to be fair to IWM, the Gyrfalcon is based on a Clickytech design and many of them had less than spectacular appearances.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

tassa_kay

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3419
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
I dunno, I think the Falcons ate in MWDA from an aesthetic POV (and in the Dark Age era period), and it isn't like we've had awful sculpts for art-gorgeous Mechs before. I like the Eyrie/Gyrfalcon/Shrike and I like the Ion Sparrow/Hierofalcon/Jade Phoenix design dichotomy.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Krieghund

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 245
Where are the Falcons' sibko facilities? The Terran Falcons have none, so they're already dead. I would imagine Sudeten has quite a few, so if Jiyi can hold out, he can rebuild. I don't know if the Alyina faction as any.
It is rumored Khan Pryde shot the first scientist she saw after laughing nonstop for ten minutes.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
A Question of Survival establishes that Sudeten has plenty of sybko facilities, the only issue was that none of them were close to graduation.  From the sounds of things, the Alyina Merchant Alliance doesn't even care about sybkos- they're completely out of the game of being Clan so they have no need of such things.  This will probably leave them with the smallest standing military force but since they're also hiring mercenaries it's probably not a big disadvantage overall.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1112
A Question of Survival establishes that Sudeten has plenty of sybko facilities, the only issue was that none of them were close to graduation.  From the sounds of things, the Alyina Merchant Alliance doesn't even care about sybkos- they're completely out of the game of being Clan so they have no need of such things.  This will probably leave them with the smallest standing military force but since they're also hiring mercenaries it's probably not a big disadvantage overall.

Not to mention they are making diplomatic overtures to the Tamar Pact and I assume the Vesper Marches.  If she play her cards right Alyina may become a major player in uniting the former occupation zone.

Metallgewitter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1658
A Question of Survival establishes that Sudeten has plenty of sybko facilities, the only issue was that none of them were close to graduation.  From the sounds of things, the Alyina Merchant Alliance doesn't even care about sybkos- they're completely out of the game of being Clan so they have no need of such things.  This will probably leave them with the smallest standing military force but since they're also hiring mercenaries it's probably not a big disadvantage overall.

Probably the same problem the Wolves will have soon. Othar had the luck of having several sibkos ready for graduation though not every cadet made it. But now they are basically slowly running out of cadets to fill troops. Jiyi had to resort to trials with the Bears for new warriors. I would assume that both of those Falcon factions will at one point have to resort to recruit freeborns into their ranks instead of simply hiring mercenaries.Which in turn will probably make them less Clann over time. This is also something to think about: how long can the IS Clans actually stay "pure"? While the Foxes and Ravens are not exactly dependend on IS citizens per their nature / state structure at one point I can see at least the Ravens being forced to rely on their adopted Is populations considering how small their ground forces are. The Bears are alreeady an amalgmation of clan and Is nation and I would say the Wolves are on their way to that and the coming wars will probably accelerate the process

Fire Scorpion IIC

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 277
Probably the same problem the Wolves will have soon. Othar had the luck of having several sibkos ready for graduation though not every cadet made it. But now they are basically slowly running out of cadets to fill troops. Jiyi had to resort to trials with the Bears for new warriors. I would assume that both of those Falcon factions will at one point have to resort to recruit freeborns into their ranks instead of simply hiring mercenaries.Which in turn will probably make them less Clann over time. This is also something to think about: how long can the IS Clans actually stay "pure"? While the Foxes and Ravens are not exactly dependend on IS citizens per their nature / state structure at one point I can see at least the Ravens being forced to rely on their adopted Is populations considering how small their ground forces are. The Bears are alreeady an amalgmation of clan and Is nation and I would say the Wolves are on their way to that and the coming wars will probably accelerate the process

Using freeborn warriors has no effect on status of a Clan

Warriors are made in sibkos, iron wombs are optional

Even back in the Homeworlds before invasion freeborn warriors were usual occurrence, now even moreso







CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1112
Using freeborn warriors has no effect on status of a Clan

Warriors are made in sibkos, iron wombs are optional

Even back in the Homeworlds before invasion freeborn warriors were usual occurrence, now even moreso

The Falcons before Malvina had a very small opinion of freeborn warriors.  To my knowledge only a handful were ever promoted to Star Captain and none ever received a bloodname.

The Wolves also have to face the facts they cannot force a planet of several billion to conform to their ideals so like the Falcons have to shift their sense of identity. 

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
Jiyi is working to excise any lingering prejudices that the Falcons have against freeborn warriors.  Including letting several found new bloodhouses.

Also, the AML controls Blackjack, where there are a large number of Falcon sybkos at the Falcon School of Conflict, according to Without Question.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Fire Scorpion IIC

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 277
The Falcons before Malvina had a very small opinion of freeborn warriors.  To my knowledge only a handful were ever promoted to Star Captain and none ever received a bloodname.

The Wolves also have to face the facts they cannot force a planet of several billion to conform to their ideals so like the Falcons have to shift their sense of identity.

True but those are Falcon and (Crusader) Wolf problems

Plenty of Clans routinely rely on freeborn warriors without any issues from founding to this very day

Star Adders, Goliath Scorpions and Sea Foxes are just ones off the top of my head

Nobody would be coming up to Wolves or Falcons and telling them that they aren't Clan enough anymore just because they have freeborn warriors, it's simply not how the whole warrior/clan thing works

Prejudice against freeborn warriors is just that: prejudice

Clan can choose indulge in it or not, it's up to them










Metallgewitter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1658
Depending on which freeborn they adopt. Clan freeborn I would agree as they are indoctrinated into the same culture. But IS freeborns? Especially recent taken ones? Not so much. An example from Redemption Rites: the Dragoons adopted a lot of freeborn cadets from New Olympia. One of them said "And when I am a warrior I will put things right" So in essence they might just take in more problems. Plus: if they loose more and more trueborns without any option to replenish said looses with the same what is there left then to take in IS freeborns? Those gain more influence and take over important positions and suddenly the whole Clan structure flips.

Just look at the Bears: their culture has changed ever so slowly. Heck they had to placate their native population by installing an elected prince during the 2nd Dominion-Combine war after the war crimes comitted by the Bears came to light and rubbed the ethnic Rasalhagians the very wrong way.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
The Falcons have always had the standard freeborn glass ceiling, but at no point did they ever not allow freeborns.  Even during the initial invasion they were taking captured Inner Sphere soldiers into the warrior caste.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
The Falcons have always had the standard freeborn glass ceiling, but at no point did they ever not allow freeborns.  Even during the initial invasion they were taking captured Inner Sphere soldiers into the warrior caste.

Diana Pryde anyone…

Freeborn status always switches between Khans and eras obviously. Malvina is at the very opposite end of the spectrum than Marthe Pryde. Ghost Bears are different today than Ghost Bears in the invasion. You still get freeborn prejudice even in the more open Clans.

As far as sibko’s go…

For the Terran Falcons with have almost no information at the current time: everything we’re doing is speculation. We can assume or guess Alaric will allow them to recruit from Terra as well as possibly set up enclaves on Terra itself (hey the won territory before the IlClan trial!). Theoretically they can set up new sibko/ Iron Womb facilities but those won’t be ready for two decades.

The AML has several sibko’s from Blackjack and their own, but as some of the stories go they’re training new units and hiring mercs. They are shifting away from Clans including their dependence on Iron Wombs. I’m not 100% knowledgeable on them ATM but I’d personally guess they won’t give a hoot about freeborn and trueborn if they keep on that path.

Jiyi and his Falcons DO NOT CARE. He needs warriors and he would taken and solidly trained warrior from any background….. as long as they undergo Clan Trials and raising. He has stated while the Mercs earned their pay for that fight on Sudeten, he’s not going to hire them at this time. He might not have sibko’s anywhere close to graduation with the exception of his Ghost Bear isorla which means he has to find other sources of warriors.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Diana Pryde anyone…
To be fair, if she is your example, then, its not going to support your point, LOL
She's pretty much the epitome of the exception that proves the rule.
She's 1 canister short of being a Trueborn herself, and dang near a "clone" since her parents are effectively fraternal twins.

Now that said,  Horse managed to be assigned to Front Line Clusters & made it to Star Captain which are both solid achievements for a Freeborn.

Really, other than Star Colonel &/or assignment to a Keshik, that is about as good as ANY Non-Bloodnamed Trueborn could accomplish.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26218
  • Need a hand?
I dunno, I think the Falcons ate in MWDA from an aesthetic POV (and in the Dark Age era period), and it isn't like we've had awful sculpts for art-gorgeous Mechs before. I like the Eyrie/Gyrfalcon/Shrike and I like the Ion Sparrow/Hierofalcon/Jade Phoenix design dichotomy.

The basic design of the Gyrfalcon wasn't bad, but the arm lasers are absurdly oversized, the cockpit just juts forward too far, and the partial wing design looks silly.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Metallgewitter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1658
To be fair, if she is your example, then, its not going to support your point, LOL
She's pretty much the epitome of the exception that proves the rule.
She's 1 canister short of being a Trueborn herself, and dang near a "clone" since her parents are effectively fraternal twins.

Now that said,  Horse managed to be assigned to Front Line Clusters & made it to Star Captain which are both solid achievements for a Freeborn.

Really, other than Star Colonel &/or assignment to a Keshik, that is about as good as ANY Non-Bloodnamed Trueborn could accomplish.

I think one of the highest achieving Freeborn has to be that one snow Raven pilot who was allowed to dispaly Warship kill markers on his fighter and was also allowed to sit on the Clan council despite having no bloodname. Other then that maybe Ragnar Magnusson though he was placed in a leadership position by the Bears bending the rules as from what I understand is that one Clan alone can't create a new bloodname "out of thin air"

jimdigris

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8816
I think one of the highest achieving Freeborn has to be that one snow Raven pilot who was allowed to dispaly Warship kill markers on his fighter and was also allowed to sit on the Clan council despite having no bloodname.
Could you provide details?  This doesn't sound familiar and I would remember something like this.

Metallgewitter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1658
Could you provide details?  This doesn't sound familiar and I would remember something like this.

Found it. From the TRO 3050 a notable pilot from the Snow Ravens called Gans. He is a Star commander and he pilots a Tomahawk. According to the lore he is one of the few (ok my error, there are more then just him) allowed to attend the Clan's war council and he is one of only two pilots to display warship kill markers.

jimdigris

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8816
Thanks!