Dropships on the map

[Stormlion1]

How many of you all use grounded Dropships on the map? In what fashion do you use them? I've fought against plenty of grounded Dropships myself but never actually used one and need some tips on how the best method to use them is.

[Weirdo]

They can be pretty good instant fortifications to act as a fierbase. Using Aerodynes is pretty self-explanatory, but my main advice with Spheroids is to land in an open area so enemies cannot get close to you without getting shot at, and to point the bonudary between your left and right arcs as directly at the enemy as possible. This will allow you to hopefully use the firepower in both arcs, as well as both sides of armor. If your enemies can stay on one side of the ship and focus there, they cut the armor they have to eat through in half, as well as reducing your targeting options. It seems reasonable to assume that you'll have actual ground forces available, yes? If you can, use those forces to try and herd enemies towards the left/right dividing line, to make sure you can use both sides of your ship. Aerodyne vessels have more limited firing arcs, but can also taxi. You can simply turn in place to keep your nose pointed at the enemy, and pour fire into them. Remember that while some DropShips do indeed have heat problems, you can usually fire at least a couple arcs at a time, and those guns should be going full auto constantly.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of DropShips are NOT massive combat behemoths, but fragile transports with purely defensive levels of arms and armor. A Union may be an enormous multi-kiloton machine of war, but that doesn't mean it can stand up to a heavy ground assault. The record sheets we got in the HexPack promotional PDF give it a BV ranging from just under 4,000 to a little over 5,000. This means it is theoretically about equal to a singe 'mech lance, likely of mediums and heavies, not assaults. This seems about right to me. If you have more than this coming at you, you'd best have ground forces or something to back you up, or be prepared to lift off NOW.

On the other hand, a dedicated assault ship like an Avenger or more modern vessels such as the Seleucus can very easily go through 'mechs like a giant lawn mower. >:D

[Stormlion1]

OK, a grounded Spheroid Dropship counts as stationary right?

[Mendrugo]

Some options include:

A fighting retreat, in which an omega unit tries to hold a superior force back long enough for the rest of the unit to board, then tries to get back in time to get aboard as the ship lifts off. 

Establishing a beachhead, with an orbital drop of 'Mechs intended to clear a perimeter for the DropShip to land at the outset of the scenario, and the ship landing in that perimeter at its conclusion (using its weaponry to clear out any stubborn defenders who are trying to contest the LZ).  This works better as part of a Planetary Invasion than an Objective Raid, since you wouldn't want to land your DS on top of the defenders if you just wanted to snag some loot and then hightail it.

A post-crash landing scenario (like at the outset of the Crescent Hawks' Revenge or that Ghost Bear Dominion poster from BattleCorps), where the ship won't ever fly again, but the 'Mechs are intact (though you might want to start with them damaged a bit) and some of the guns might still work.  The ship's passengers need to survive against enemy encroachment until an extraction vessel can arrive. 

If you want to go the Helmar Valasek route, the Droppers could just be decoys, hollow shells filled with explosives set to go off once a vastly superior OpFor moves nearby, with the "real" battle commencing once the two sides' numbers are somewhat equalized by the ambush.

[Weirdo]

OK, a grounded Spheroid Dropship counts as stationary right?

Yep. And yep, that means that it is an immobile target, complete with that -4 to hit it. Another reason not to expect miracles out of these wondrous flying skyscraper-boobs we call spaceships. Fire pointed at them is more or less guaranteed to hit, so don't expect them to stand like a stone wall against a powerful 'mech force.

[Failure16]

I found out long ago, during a BattleForce I game that grounding a DropShip to bolster a flagging line is a Bad Idea.  In that case, I saw an Overlord crack like the egg it really was.  In another, I just narrowly avoided having my precious Avenger swatted out of the sky like a cropduster versus a 9K22 Tunguska. 

Since then, I have bravely gotten over trying to use DropShips of any kind during ground actions.  However, DropShips being used in ground combat goes at least all the way back to The Fox's Teeth in a scenario reminiscent of Mendrugo's second scenario...though that ship did eventually fly again.

[Weirdo]

Sounds about right.

In a world of walking tanks, a DropShip is a flying Higgins Boat.

[Failure16]

Er...looking back, I see I forgot to say that Wierdo has the long and short of it:  if you value your shipping, have it be some place else other than a BattleTech mapsheet.

[Jellico]

Take the armour value. Divide by 4, 12, 5, or whatever takes your fancy. If a 'Mech has that remaining armour value your DropShip is not as good as that many 'Mechs of that type.

[Kojak]

Interesting that this subject came up, because I'm about to use grounded DropShips for the first time ever. SteveRestless and I have begun an Operation Klondike campaign, and we're currently in the opening turns of the Battle of Aeschel Plateau. Steve's Ilkasur Shogunate forces number three mixed battalions (company each of 'Mechs, tanks, and infantry); my Star Adders have 35 'Mechs and five grounded DropShips (one Lee and four late-model Pentagons). I'm very interested to see how the DropShips fare, especially since until I read this thread I wasn't aware they received the -4 mod for immobile targets. Any advice on what I should be doing to keep the DropShips in one piece (other than taking off)?

[snewsom2997]

Unless you are raining mechs on a map from altitude, or have a Fortress and are 20 Mapsheets away, they are just expensive targets. The -4 Kills them and in the Post Clan Era that becomes fatal. They are just too easy to disable on the ground, and don't have enough armor to stand up to anything but a Lance of Light Mechs, or a couple heavier ones.

[pensiveswetness]

When The Boy was playing a particular mission that involved hot dropping on a Pirate dropship (with the goal to disable it to prevent pirates from escaping), the pirates went ahead to assault his dropship instead. they succeeded in destroying it (resulting in the death of 95% of his support in terms of man power and supplies). As a result of this, he had to forgo the entire next contract arc to have enough time to rebuild his tech support, spare parts as well as negotiate with another NPC merc unit, with spare DS capability... such a event has huge implications in RP alone...

[Stormlion1]

I've fought against them and they usually die unless they take off right away or the defending mech's keep me from them. Problem is I usually suck at the math and now I'm the one who has to do it! My current plan is to always have a few defensive mechs, mostly likely fast backstabbers to stay near them or probably a Lance or two of Hovercraft or armor to protect a grounded Dropship. Other than that the only real protection one would have is its weapons and getting off the field. Luckily the next game isn't really requiring a Dropship. Then again on the other hand my plan is to finish off the Wolverine Annihilation and fast forward to the Clan Invasion and I planned on giving my players a Dropship for support. Methinks there going to learn to protect that Dropship pretty fast, cause even 3025 era mechs are a threat.

[Demon55]

I have had to defend a grounded dropship.  It took some of the attention away from my ground units which were torn up pretty bad.  My ASFs saved the day. 

Dropships can also provide close air support.  Spheroidal dropships will lose altitude with weapon attacks though (note: I have not used aerodynes.  So I cannot speak about their use). 

Attacking a dropship can be very bloody for an attacking force, even if they are using artillery and indirect LRM fire.

[ehlijen]

The big drawback is that as immobile targets, the enemy can target locations on a dropship, which means they really only have one facing's worth of armour. Of course hitting the same location over and over is fairly easy on a 4 location (3 hittable from any given angle) unit to begin with.

While grounded a dropship really only has one light to medium mech's worth of armour.

[idea weenie]

They can be pretty good instant fortifications to act as a fierbase. Using Aerodynes is pretty self-explanatory, but my main advice with Spheroids is to land in an open area so enemies cannot get close to you without getting shot at, and to point the bonudary between your left and right arcs as directly at the enemy as possible. This will allow you to hopefully use the firepower in both arcs, as well as both sides of armor. If your enemies can stay on one side of the ship and focus there, they cut the armor they have to eat through in half, as well as reducing your targeting options. It seems reasonable to assume that you'll have actual ground forces available, yes? If you can, use those forces to try and herd enemies towards the left/right dividing line, to make sure you can use both sides of your ship. 

If an enemy sees they are on the dividing line, I'd expect them to get hit with both sides on the first turn, then immediately moving to one side so they only face half the firepower.  So the dividing line advantage is only useful on one turn, and likely only at long  range (unless you hold fire until they get really close).

Mobile forces would be composed of fast harassers (i.e. Savannah Masters) and long-ranged Snipers (LRM craft).  Ther goal is to pick off specific enemy units, and retreat to the safety of the other half of the Dropship.  If the enemy follows to deal with them, you have the other half of the Dropship's weapons to play with.

Remember that while some DropShips do indeed have heat problems, you can usually fire at least a couple arcs at a time, and those guns should be going full auto constantly.

IIRC, only AL/R arcs can engage ground targets attacking a Spheroid Dropship.  So that should be a basic design note, all Spheroid Dropships should have at least enough heat sinks to fire all AL/R weapons at max rate.



One idea to let the players know to really protect their Dropship is when the enemies arrive, ask the players for the loadout of each cargo bay.  The bottom cargo bay, assuming the Mech Bay doors are open, is what you use to make up a list.  Whenever an attacker's shot hits the Dropship and impacts on what would be the door, go down a list (randomly generated beforehand), and tell them what just got ruined.  Maybe roll a 2d6 vs the weapon damage, to see if it hit something critical, or just damaged the floor.

"Hmm, the Medium Laser hit inside the Dropship, "(rolling sounds heard), "Remember that Mech Bay you parked your Rifleman in on the way in?  Not any more."

Of course, if your players attack an enemy Dropship, feel free to let them have fun hitting stuff on the inside too, usually followed by someone commenting that everything they hit is less salvage for after the battle.

[Colt Ward]

As I mostly play with MM, I find the biggest problem for including dropships is the hex width the dropship should be on the map.

With that said, generally my merc's heavy and assault armor was used for DZ defense since it was hamstrung under BMR rules.  With TW, they tend to get out more if I need a big hammer to hit a target though generally a lance of the heavy/assault armor still is on site.  Typically the damaged lances are also tasked with DZ defense- say one mech is being rebuilt and two others are damaged or the pilot is injured, then they get 'light' duty.

I have not yet run a DS attack scenario, though I might with part of the upcoming campaign.  Mostly it would be light mechs and hovers making harassing attacks on the assaulting enemy's DZ for a very simple strategic goal, pull back some forces to cover the lines of communication.

I have not done any infantry swarming spaceports to use the boarding rules either, but its always been something in the back pocket.  With a mix of Elemental, GDL Standard and Achileus suits (so far) I am not sure how well things will roll.

[Stormlion1]

Well thanks for all the input. Running with a Dropship will be easier for me now.

[truetanker]

In my AU clan, we use a Lion II. Either A or B, but there is a C variant as well.

But what I am talking about is that every Lion II has at least 1 A4 launcher on top, for those " Oh Sh... " moments. Standard tactics is to throw their weight around. By that I mean every target multiple weapons to bear! LRM Thunder rounds, FASCAM, minefeilds if deployable.

TT

[serack]

 >:D and can use that A4 to land fascam on its way down to land :)

[Col Toda]

If the enemy breaks through your perimeter  defense so they can attack the LZ you made a mistake . Never expose your dropship to fire as it normally eats some landing and leaving even with fighter escort . The only dropships that would be involved in a fight should be a Fortress firing its long tom with copper head rounds or a Colossus with it's 2 arrow IV launchers and even that is too close. The enemy has to be kept well outside 1KM preferable no closer than 2 KM from you dropship in the worst case. If an enemy mech comes within 1 KM with a clear veiw they can spot for a battery of Long Toms 15KM away from the dropship and if the drop ship is not hot to leave it will get pounded to scrap .

[Demon55]

I have found that landing a dropship too close to your units can damage them.  I have not figured out what the damage radius is.

[Colt Ward]

I have found that landing a dropship too close to your units can damage them.  I have not figured out what the damage radius is.

Somewhere between 'That is warm' and 'Oh God, I am on fire!'

[truetanker]

PM sent serack....

TT

[serack]

ok :)

[Jayof9s]

The only good use I've found for dropships on the ground is a fortress parked way out of combat or off map entirely firing its Long Tom.

Although, recently I nearly ruined my players' mercenary unit with a (crash)landed Union. But only because it crashed right next to a building they had several points of Battle Armor camped in (very nearly crashed ontop of those BA) and my players were intent on capturing the ship intact. So they ignored it with their 'Mechs/tanks but continued to fight the pirate ground forces well in range of the Union's guns. If they had turned and finished it off after it crashed the ship would have been down in 1-2 turns due to the damage it had taken at that point. Or if they had simply moved the fight further away, they probably would have been fine. Instead, they almost lost the fight because they wanted to capture a valuable prize.  :D