Author Topic: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter  (Read 5529 times)

Sartris

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A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« on: 22 February 2020, 16:57:03 »
the question occasionally comes up inquiring what is left to do after the near 100 resculpts slated for the KickStarter come out. the short answer: lots. it probably goes without saying we're not going to get everything. there are just a lot of clunkers.

More Specifically:

3025 Unseen: 5
Code: [Select]
Ostsol
Ostscout (yes, you can get it in metal. metal isn't plastic)
Ostroc
Scorpion
Goliath

3055 Unseen: 3 IS, 8 Clan
Code: [Select]
Grand Crusader
Nexus
Raijin

Black Python (Viper)
Glass Spider (Galahad)
Griffin IIC
Jenner IIC
Locust IIC
Phoenix Hawk IIC
Rifleman IIC
Shadow Hawk IIC

TRO 2750: 7
Code: [Select]
Bombardier
Champion
Hermes
Hussar
Kintaro
Thorn
Wyvern

3039: 18
Code: [Select]
Assassin
Charger
Cicada
Clint
Dervish
Falcon
Firefly
Firestarter
Flea
Hatamoto-Chi
Hermes II
Hornet
JagerMech
Javelin
Quickdraw
Vindicator
Vulcan
Whitworth

3050: 7
Code: [Select]
Annihilator
Caesar
Hoplite
Imp
Mauler
Shogun
Wolf Trap

3055: 38 IS (aka all of them), 3 Clan
Code: [Select]
Albatross
Anvil
Apollo
Bandersnatch
Battle Hawk
Berserker
Cerberus
Daikyu
Daimyo
Dart
Falconer
Fireball
Gallowglas
Grand Titan
Grim Reaper
Gunslinger
Hammer
Hercules
Hitman
Hollander
Huron Warrior
Jackal
Komodo
Naginata
Nightsky
Penetrator
Rakshasa
Salamander
Scarabus
Snake
Stealth
Tarantula
Tempest
Thunder
Venom
War Dog
Watchman
Wraith

Naga
Phantom
Pouncer

3058: 30 IS, 2 Clan
Code: [Select]
Avatar
Black Hawk-KU
Blackjack Omni
Cestus
Chameleon
Devastator
Dragon Fire
Emperor
Enfield
Excalibur
Falcon Hawk
Firestarter Omni
Lineholder
Lynx
Maelstrom
Merlin
Night Hawk
O-Bakemono
Owens
Pillager
Raptor
Shootist
Spartan
Spector
Starslayer
Strider
Striker
Sunder
Talon
Thunder Hawk

Grizzly
Thresher

3060: 31 IS, 22 Clan
Code: [Select]
Barghest
Beowulf
Bishamon
Black Watch
Blitzkrieg
Buccaneer
Cobra
Cossack
Duan Gung
Eagle
Enforcer III
Garm
Ha Otoko
Hauptmann
Helios
Initiate
JagerMech III
Jinggau
Kabuto
Marshal
Men Shen
Sentry
Shugenja
Sirocco
Stalking Spider
Tai-sho
Ti Ts'ang
Toyama
Viking
Yeoman
Yu Huang

Arctic Fox
Arctic Wolf
Blood Asp
Canis
Clint IIC
Commando IIC
Corvis
Fire Scorpion
Great Wyrm
Guillotine IIC
Highlander IIC
Icestorm
Mandrill
Matador
Orion IIC
Predator
Snow Fox
Stooping Hawk
Thunder Stallion
UrbanMech IIC
Ursus
Wyvern IIC

3067: 30 IS, 14 Clan
Code: [Select]
Akuma
Anubis
Argus
Bloodhound
Blue Flame
Brigand
Chimera
Cronus
Fafnir
Gurkha
Hellspawn
Lao Hu
Legacy
Lightray
Ninja-To
No-Dachi
Osiris
Perseus
Razorback
Red Shift
Sagittaire
Sha Yu
Stiletto
Templar
Tessen
Thanatos
Uziel
Vanquisher
Verfolger
White Flame

Arcas
Blood Kite
Bowman
Burrock
Crimsuon Langur
Hellfire
Lobo
Mad Cat Mk II
Pinion
Rabid Coyote
Savage Coyote
Scylla
Solitaire
Spirit
« Last Edit: 22 February 2020, 23:58:14 by Sartris »

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Luciora

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #1 on: 22 February 2020, 17:11:05 »
Do you mean for plastic or in general?  The Ostscout has a recent Classic release.


Sartris

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #2 on: 22 February 2020, 18:07:11 »
Plastic. I have a metal ostscout

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #3 on: 22 February 2020, 18:21:29 »
In terms of designs I think are iconic or popular enough to put in plastic, I couldn't even fill a TRO with them between Civil War and Jihad.  Maybe another 60 or so, including most of the designs that made it into video games.
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #4 on: 22 February 2020, 18:22:52 »
I think some of those can be safely discounted since they would be more niche designs- unfortunately that includes something like the Blood Kite, which could use a non-WTF look.
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #5 on: 22 February 2020, 18:36:21 »
We could almost retire the Project Phoenix mechs and used their load outs on the classic sculps
I may have a low amount of posts but I have a PHD in Battletech and mechs older then most people on this board!

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #6 on: 22 February 2020, 18:59:00 »
In terms of designs I think are iconic or popular enough to put in plastic, I couldn't even fill a TRO with them between Civil War and Jihad.  Maybe another 60 or so, including most of the designs that made it into video games.

The clip is pretty near empty, yeah. As much as the 3055 set really needs a refresh, the community is not clamoring for a daimyo mini.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #7 on: 22 February 2020, 19:53:38 »
the question occasionally comes up inquiring what is left to do after the near 100 resculpts slated for the KickStarter come out. the short answer: lots. it probably goes without saying we're not going to get everything. there are just a lot of clunkers.

And that is a question -

how many of these designs are popular enough, iconic enough, or simply in need of a redesign to improve their looks?

I think most would agree the 3025 Mechs, those last 5 Unseen, need to be redone.
Actually - 4. The new Ostscout design looks good and isn't really in need of a revamp.

The 3055 Unseen? Yes - again, they are Unseen and so need a revamp.

But then we start needing to perhaps be picky. I don't think many of the IS 3055 designs are standout candidates....those that are most popular tend to look good enough that a revamp isn't needed. The Venom, Salamander, Grand Titan and Albatross do well as they stand. But then we need to ask if the rest have sufficient market potential to be worth a revamp.

That is one reason the Kickstarter was so helpful. Its greater than hoped for success allowed CGL to redesign units that might otherwise have been uneconomical to redesign. If CGL had to finance such measures in a more traditional sense, it might deem the revamp too risky.

Most of the 3055 and 3058, most of the IS Mechs, probably aren't lucrative enough potentials to justify a revamp, at least not without another Kickstarter. And another Kickstarter is not guaranteed to be anywhere near as successful as the CI Box.

Ironically perhaps, these are probably the units most in need of a CI style revamp.

As it is, I would not expect to see another BT Kickstarter this year. This year, I think, will belong to Leviathans. I would not expect to see the same runaway success as BT CI last year, but I am hopeful that it will be successful enough to get the game back into print - it's an interesting universe.

The next Kickstarter for BT will, at the earliest, be in 2021 and will, I suspect, focus mainly on the FedCom Civil War and Jihad eras. I would anticipate that it would also be built around an Alpha Strike Box Set and could include minis for vehicles and infantry just as the CI set included Elemental armour.

If a Kickstarter were to be held, and ***IF*** it were as successful as the CI KS, then we may indeed see some of these units gain a much needed revamp. As Wolfspider suggests, we can also do a subtle reduction in count by "retiring" the Project Phoenix models or relisting them as customised designs or the like.
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #8 on: 22 February 2020, 19:58:35 »

Osts and Quads.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #9 on: 22 February 2020, 20:25:58 »
As it is, I would not expect to see another BT Kickstarter this year. This year, I think, will belong to Leviathans. I would not expect to see the same runaway success as BT CI last year, but I am hopeful that it will be successful enough to get the game back into print - it's an interesting universe.

The next Kickstarter for BT will, at the earliest, be in 2021 and will, I suspect, focus mainly on the FedCom Civil War and Jihad eras. I would anticipate that it would also be built around an Alpha Strike Box Set and could include minis for vehicles and infantry just as the CI set included Elemental armour.
My expectations, the CI will finish up in 2020, Leviathans 2021, Jihad/Combined arms 2022.
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #10 on: 22 February 2020, 21:21:24 »
In a way the a first ks on a specific game/topic is easy. You can pick your theme/sub-selection with a large degree of freedom and then judge the success in the end. For that ks it is almost irrelevant why people made which selections.
For a followup ks on the other hand knowing what people missed in the first ks would actually quite helpful.
Otherwise the next subset of mechs might be more of a hit and miss, at least comparatively speaking to the first ks.

The first ks had the second advantage that there were quite a few backers starting at zero, which made the presented mech range less important as long as a few known faces were in there and the quality matches the backers' requirements.

.. Jihad/Combined arms 2022.
A focus on combined arms with a side show of mechs would have the advantage of not requiring to hit a too broad backer interest in, for them, important mechs and would allow, similar to Clan Invasion, to start with a combined arms selection with a larger degree of freedom. But that suggestion/estimate might be slightly influenced by my personal interest them. ;)

the question of timing is probably harder. You don't want to run a 2nd ks in the same game too early - you want to give people a bit of time to forget how much they put into the game for the last ks ;). Also the current ks plus followup retail sales will double as marketing for a followup ks and you want to give it time to reach new people.
On the other hand, you don't want to loose the traction you gained with the current backers and keep them involved.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out.




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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #11 on: 22 February 2020, 21:52:17 »
My expectations, the CI will finish up in 2020, Leviathans 2021, Jihad/Combined arms 2022.

I don't really want to speculate on how another BattleTech ks would go. I think the biggest push in this one would have been the unseen more than anything. The PP mechs looked awful for the most part and people went nuts when the classics first started getting shown off with the art and 3d printed prototypes before HG happened again.

Pushing redesigns of the most used 3026 designs might do it, but I have my doubts. I would love to see *some* vees in plastic with a redesign but as far as the mechs... They would really have to knock my socks off for me to sink another 300 into another BT ks.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #12 on: 22 February 2020, 23:27:55 »
The Longbow is in the KickStarter, and you can add the Emperor (albeit the -1A) to mechs like the OstScout that have been redone in metal with modern styling.

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that they didn't cover the HBS game's mech selection.  My gaming group got into the tabletop game through it, and to people like us, the Vindicator, JagerMech, Quickdraw, Firestarter, and Kintaro have always been around.  Granted, that means we have a warped view of how commonplace they are.  The campaign was also light on low-end mediums and clan medium battlemechs.  I'd love to see them get redesigned, and I'm okay with metal.
 
Is it a given that Catalyst will move on to the FedCom Civil War?  I could see them skipping to the 3250 storyline hinted at in the new TRO intro blurbs.  Or is IWM supposed to get all the new-in-universe mechs? 

I just have a feeling that the 3250 setting will be organized so that new players can play introtech games while still playing in the present.  Maybe the Game of Armored Combat boxed set has its novella replaced with one explaining the gladiatorial combat freebirths are allowed to participate in with low-tech mechs.  The Clan Invasion box would fit into a second tech tier also used in arena combat, and then the new SLDF would have all-new mechs and weapons.  That's what the next KickStarter campaign could cover.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #13 on: 23 February 2020, 00:07:59 »
if it's not in plastic, it doesn't exist for the purpose of this exercise. the longbow in 3058 is the 7Q - that one will definitely not get a redo since the unseen version is so i've removed it.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #14 on: 23 February 2020, 03:04:03 »
The clip is pretty near empty, yeah. As much as the 3055 set really needs a refresh, the community is not clamoring for a daimyo mini.

speak for yourself  :beatdown:

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #15 on: 23 February 2020, 11:08:33 »
if it's not in plastic, it doesn't exist for the purpose of this exercise. the longbow in 3058 is the 7Q - that one will definitely not get a redo since the unseen version is so i've removed it.
So, it SOUNDS like you're saying:

"Take away IWM's License for Metal minis, we only want them in Plastic from Chinese manufacturers!!"

Or am I Somehow reading that wrong? Because you're talking about taking away 218 sculpts from them.

You're AT LEAST Demanding the time and effort of the current CGL Art Team to REDO another 218 designs (TWO HUNDRED EIGHTEEN!!), because they're apparently NOT BUSY ENOUGH at the moment.   :o
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #16 on: 23 February 2020, 11:34:13 »
That's... not how I understood this at all...  ???

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #17 on: 23 February 2020, 11:51:34 »
So, it SOUNDS like you're saying:

"Take away IWM's License for Metal minis, we only want them in Plastic from Chinese manufacturers!!"

Or am I Somehow reading that wrong? Because you're talking about taking away 218 sculpts from them.

You're AT LEAST Demanding the time and effort of the current CGL Art Team to REDO another 218 designs (TWO HUNDRED EIGHTEEN!!), because they're apparently NOT BUSY ENOUGH at the moment.   :o
going from the initial post, he is looking for a list based on the current redesign strategy. That the material is plastic is mostly incidental for the list, it's just the starting point so far. At least from my understanding none of the redesigns made into metal yet.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #18 on: 23 February 2020, 11:54:49 »
So, it SOUNDS like you're saying:

"Take away IWM's License for Metal minis, we only want them in Plastic from Chinese manufacturers!!"

Or am I Somehow reading that wrong? Because you're talking about taking away 218 sculpts from them.

You're AT LEAST Demanding the time and effort of the current CGL Art Team to REDO another 218 designs (TWO HUNDRED EIGHTEEN!!), because they're apparently NOT BUSY ENOUGH at the moment.   :o

Lolno. None of this


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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #19 on: 23 February 2020, 12:02:18 »
I am disappointed more IIC mechs were not included in the kickstarter, especially the Rifleman IIC, Shadowhawk IIC, and Griffin IIC.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #20 on: 23 February 2020, 12:15:26 »
*snip* At least from my understanding none of the redesigns made into metal yet.

Catapult, Locust, and Griffin are getting released in metal Q1 from IWM.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50763.msg1580918#msg1580918
Cat has variants for K2
Locust variants for 1Vb
Griffin is sad, has no spares.
I believe that is correct... Or just read the followup posts by Speck in the linked thread.

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #21 on: 23 February 2020, 12:54:32 »
For me right this minute...it's GOTTA be the Bloodhound, cause I'm painting one, and I'm still trying to figure out the age at which the Child/Infant that pilots this thing has to be. Because if it IS to scale for 6mm...then lawrd this thing has a super teeny cockpit!
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #22 on: 23 February 2020, 13:06:30 »
I would love to see a Sparky Griffin, chances are low considering how many can simply bash the design (I suck at bashing)

As for more plastics... I see mechs of main characters on book covers being a possibility ( I like the Penetrator but it has aged badly over the last couple of decades) but listing every other mech from the TROs is, at best, ambitious. At worst not realistic business wise.

First: how do you want to sell the next Box to new player? (the vets here have already made their demands clear) #1 goal of the KS is to get more players at the table. I would look towards the mechs on MW3-4 that haven't been covered yet as MWO was full of fans of those games asking "when are we going to see mech X?"

I personally think a Solaris expansion box would be cool. A good excuse for the Berserker, No-Dachi and Ti Ts'ang.

Worse case, keep throwing money at Anthony's Patron and then hit up IWMs fan finance sub-forum. A new Berserker designed by Anthony would make me happy in ether metal or plastic.
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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #23 on: 23 February 2020, 13:13:12 »
Locust variants for 1Vb

apparently it works for a -1E too if you leave off the chin gun.

I think some of those can be safely discounted since they would be more niche designs- unfortunately that includes something like the Blood Kite, which could use a non-WTF look.

Given how popular it is among non-faction clan players, I'd expect the ugly to get a new look, because it needs it.

We could almost retire the Project Phoenix mechs and used their load outs on the classic sculps

Some of them are useful. Not going to miss others.

Actually - 4. The new Ostscout design looks good and isn't really in need of a revamp....

....The Venom, Salamander, Grand Titan and Albatross do well as they stand....

.....The next Kickstarter for BT will, at the earliest, be in 2021 and will, I suspect, focus mainly on the FedCom Civil War and Jihad eras. I would anticipate that it would also be built around an Alpha Strike Box Set and could include minis for vehicles and infantry just as the CI set included Elemental armour.

Also, Ostscout aren't a terrably popular mech until you reach some of the Jihad variants. Most of those are WOBbie.

the albatross and GT are fine (And we don't want to deface Optimus Prime.) The venom is oversize for what it is and could use a makeover. The salamander is a horrible offender of the big hips / bigger shoulders era, with straight arms and legs.

I'd expect late '22 or '23 myself. Unless Alpha is way more popular other places than here, I doubt that will be the theme of the box. There are enough sci-fi vehicles cheap enough that taking focus from the mechs might not be the best decision either.
« Last Edit: 23 February 2020, 13:55:09 by Greatclub »

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #24 on: 23 February 2020, 13:33:44 »
Griffin is sad, has no spares.
I believe that is correct... Or just read the followup posts by Speck in the linked thread.
Griffin gets a variant later, just not in the blister. (Similar to the Shadow Hawk's releases.)

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #25 on: 23 February 2020, 18:22:07 »
Given how popular it is among non-faction clan players, I'd expect the ugly to get a new look, because it needs it.
I actually like the Blood Kite as it is.
To be Honest, I don't think there are many Clan Mechs that don't look at least OK, and I'm struggling to think of anything a bad as, say, the Yeoman.

So I don't think there are many that need a redesign. Would benefit from? Sure - I like the Blood Asp for example - but the legs need a redesign because the tree stump look just doesn't work.

But "need"? Not really. Well...except the UnSeen. You need those done for obvious reasons.

Quote
Some of them are useful. Not going to miss others.
I think I'd retire them myself. IMO, PP should never have happened. The Mechs should have just quietly been retired and the in universe factories repurposed for new designs.

Quote
Also, Ostscout aren't a terrably popular mech until you reach some of the Jihad variants. Most of those are WOBbie.

Which doesn't alter that there is an acceptable rep-design out here.

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the albatross and GT are fine (And we don't want to deface Optimus Prime.) The venom is oversize for what it is and could use a makeover. The salamander is a horrible offender of the big hips / bigger shoulders era, with straight arms and legs.

Not going to say they are perfect. But they are the best of a bad lot. In truth, I think 3055 IS Mechs were some of the worst designs FASA did. I just didn't like the style of most Mechs. But that is a personal opinion and there are probably many others who like the designs.

The point is, a design that already looks good or acceptable isn't in too much need of a revamp.  But there are other factors at play - the need to allow for a balanced force to play with, to allow for multiple factions to be fielded, not to mention whether or not the new designs will sell.

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I'd expect late '22 or '23 myself. Unless Alpha is way more popular other places than here, I doubt that will be the theme of the box. There are enough sci-fi vehicles cheap enough that taking focus from the mechs might not be the best decision either.

'22 or '23 might be leaving things too long. CGL needs to keep the marketing momentum going. FASA pulling out did a lot to kill of BT, not because the game died, but because it killed the merchandising and promotion machine. Even with FanPro picking up the license, it took time to get product into the stores, and time to restart marketing, tournaments, and so on, and IMO, the impact of that is still being felt today. CGL needs to regrow the player base and a Kickstarter might easily be part of that.

Whether or not such a Kickstarter can wait till 2022 depends on other factors, including CGLs current plans to market and grow the game. And, as someone said, they need to ensure that the backers will be willing to pump money into the game again. Just because someone pumped $5000 in the CI KS doesn't mean he'll be able or willing to do so in 2022....burnout might be a factor.

As for the core around the KS....the time period could be anywhere from Serpent all the way to the ilClan era. The next obvious era would be the Fed Com Civil War, Serpent/Wars of Scavenging and the Jihad/Wars of Reaving. Plenty of units there to add. The idea about vehicles and infantry would be to have a "bonus" in addition to the Mechs, in the same way CI has Elementals.

And Alpha Strike - the point is that you probably want some sort of core box set around which to focus the marketing and promotion. Since BattleTroops isn't readily adapted, as it seems doubtful there'll be an RPG and because the focus of AeroTech and BattleSpace is elsewhere, that really only leaves BattleForce/AS

You get your boxed set, a pair of new maps, some fiction, toss in some Mechs and a couple of vehicles, and you have your CI equivalent.

Of course, CGL might decide to stick with the simple era model but, IMO, that would be lacking something.
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Colt Ward

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #26 on: 23 February 2020, 18:27:33 »
Boxes have been done in eras, so I would expect Civil War next which lets them reach back into the 3050s for some that were left out that need it.  Since we got Elementals, we might see IS or GDL Std . . . though I would lean more towards vehicles.
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shivanwurm

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #27 on: 24 February 2020, 03:00:26 »
Is the original Kraken/Bane in 3055 unseen? I thought it was but don't see it listed.

Sharpnel

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #28 on: 24 February 2020, 05:16:28 »
after the 5 3025 Unseen (mos def) and the missing 3039 (some, maybe not all) mechs, I would not expect to see any more plastics as that would take away from IWM's metal minis and that's just not fair to IWM or players who like metal.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter
« Reply #29 on: 24 February 2020, 10:19:37 »
Plastic will only be single piece and static pose, something that metal is not. Plus metal usually has a variant option in the blister. Can't say the same for plastic.

It would be nice to see IWM do in plastic what they do for metal but the chance of that is about as low as winning the lottery

 

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