Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?

[Fat Guy]

These new classic variants only found in the Succession War Record Sheet book?

You are correct sir.

[Fat Guy]

Edit: spoiler-free impressions

Wolverine - i had never considered that. i may continue not to
Thunderbolt - hilarious, especially if your opponent doesn't look at record sheets
Zeus - a little disjointed but fun
Atlas - ? ? ? ?

If that Zeus had one more ton of ammo (easily done by dropping the rear medium) I'd like it a lot.

That Atlas I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley!  :o

The other two are nothing special (barring the surprise factor on the T-Bolt).

[Cache]

Hey, we can do record sheets again!

Doesn't look like it to me. Product page states all sheets are available in previous products. Only change is the new logo. That can be done without creating new sheets.

(edit: I don't have the PDF yet, so I happily reserve the right to be wrong.)

[Fat Guy]

On second go through, I found a Javelin 10A.


Interesting...

[Sartris]

On second go through, I found a Javelin 10A.


Interesting...

i immediately thought of at least four possibilities and it ended up being none of them. the ammo is a problem.

[Fat Guy]

the ammo is a problem.

My thoughts exactly.

[Weirdo]

This RS product is really cool. At this point, the only thing I think new players could use is an expansion to the AGoAC rulebook to allow them to use the standard-tech stuff in that RS file, to whet their appetites before going full TW or BMM.

[Sartris]

Doesn't look like it to me. Product page states all sheets are available in previous products. Only change is the new logo. That can be done without creating new sheets.

(edit: I don't have the PDF yet, so I happily reserve the right to be wrong.)

I was doing a side-by-side comparison with a sheet printed to Adobe PDF and these look like they were made in MML with the 'cost' field disabled. The ones made by hand in the past would have some slight variations on the size of the boxes at times but all of these match up perfectly. also the ammo is printed in the weapon and equipment box in the same place that MML puts it

so maybe we'll see more?

This RS product is really cool. At this point, the only thing I think new players could use is an expansion to the AGoAC rulebook to allow them to use the standard-tech stuff in that RS file, to whet their appetites before going full TW or BMM.

sort of akin to a citytech 2nd ed stepup between 4th ed and BTC:RoW.

A Star League campaign book would slot nicely in that regard, I think

[Cubby]

This RS product is really cool. At this point, the only thing I think new players could use is an expansion to the AGoAC rulebook to allow them to use the standard-tech stuff in that RS file, to whet their appetites before going full TW or BMM.

Speaking only for myself: comes a point when I'd rather just sell them a copy of BMM. That's why I recommended putting RS and the BMM DTF format out at the same time.

Getting too incremental only creates more one more product/download/whatever, in a line that's honestly too cluttered with them.

[Weirdo]

Good point. At some point you just have to remove the training wheels, and let them stomp on Urbies on their own.

Does it have a note pointing them at BMM and TW?

[Sartris]

So sell them BMM and a star league campaign book. Everyone wins

Hint: you should make a star league campaign book

[Weirdo]

I love the idea of a Star League campaign book for myself, but why for new players? The universe primer and the TRO and Record Sheets being marketed to them are geared toward the Succession Wars. I think I'd lean more toward something like Sword and Dragon, minus the prototype tech and set in the Third or Fourth War.

[Sartris]

Better synergy with the units in TRO Succession Wars to base it in the 2700s

[Brigoon]

Wolverine 6D, Thunderbolt 5D, Zeus 6A, and Atlas 7A are brand new as well!

Yeah who ever made these must have been like "Lets see what happens if I do this".

[Scotty]

Better synergy with the units in TRO Succession Wars to base it in the 2700s

Except for the ones that came out after that,  like the Enforcer, Centurion, Wolfhound, Raven, Hatchetman, and Merlin to name things off the top of my head.

The units in TRO 2750 have been fully recommend to appear (in downgraded variants) pretty conclusively outside of a few oddballs.  It's called "Succession Wars" for a reason.

[Sartris]

It’s called Succession Wars because it was the least ill-fitting name for 500 years of unit history. We already have a Succession Wars campaign in Sword and Dragon that uses a lot of the post 2780 units. Retool that to fit better with the current line. It would be cheaper.

[Crimson Dawn]

My base assumption is that if there is a new battlemaster variant it probably does not have jump jets.  If it did I would have the perfect assault mech for my new mercenary company (right now making due with a victor).

[Scotty]

It’s called Succession Wars because it was the least ill-fitting name for 500 years of unit history. We already have a Succession Wars campaign in Sword and Dragon that uses a lot of the post 2780 units. Retool that to fit better with the current line. It would be cheaper.

Which means that the Star League is somehow even less fitting, and surely won't result in "better synergy".

I recently had to go through and figure out what units were available for use in 2729 and 2730 for a game.  It's not a lot; less than half of what's in TRO Succession Wars.  Any time after that, you have to ignore Royals and any non-Introductory tech variants because those largely weren't included.  Just avoid the hassle and stick to the 3020s.

[Liam's Ghost]

Any complaints I might have had about this record sheet book are drowned out by the fact that literally all I wanted was an official record sheet for the new Flea. I have that, so it's physically impossible for me to be unhappy with it.

Also, some of the new variants they snuck in are hilarious. Sneaky Javelin indeed.

[Sharpnel]

I love the new Zeus, though it needs one more ton of ammo.
The new Atlas is different and with all of those SRMs I would hate to be on the other end of them.

[Cubby]

Does it have a note pointing them at BMM and TW?

No, I wish it did - didn't manage to get that in. But I'm working on some other ways to illustrate the progression, as an aid to new players.

[Fat Guy]

Yeah who ever made these must have been like "Lets see what happens if I do this".

I'm pretty sure whoever did the T-Bolt had several shots of Jeger and asked himself "What hasn't been done on this chassis yet?"

[Sartris]

Which means that the Star League is somehow even less fitting, and surely won't result in "better synergy".

I recently had to go through and figure out what units were available for use in 2729 and 2730 for a game.  It's not a lot; less than half of what's in TRO Succession Wars.  Any time after that, you have to ignore Royals and any non-Introductory tech variants because those largely weren't included.  Just avoid the hassle and stick to the 3020s.

good thing they just released a big ole binder of 300 variants

If you ran a series of missions during Operation Chieftain (2772), this is what is available to the various militaries per the MUL that is in RS: Succession Wars. That's variants for 71 of 93 chassis presented in the TRO for those of you keeping score at home. I'd call that synergy adequate. It also gives a range of tech in low doses to acclimate new players to life outside the box set, which you do not get in the 3020s.

Code: [Select]

Assassin 21
Atlas D
Awesome 8Q/8R
Banshee 3E/3M
BattleAxe 7K/7NC
BattleMaster 1G
Black Knight 6
Blackjack 1X/1
Bombardier 12D
Catapult C1/A1/C4/K2
Chameleon 4B
Charger 1A1
Cicada 2A
Clint 2R/3T
Commando 1D/2D
Crab 27
Crockett 5003-1
Cyclops 10-Z
Dervish 6M
Dragon 1C/1N
Emperor 5A/6A
Excalibur B1/B2
Falcon 4N
Firebee 2E
Firefly 3A
Firestarter A/K/H
Flashman 8K
Flea 4/14/15
Galahad 1D/2D
Griffin 2N
Guillotine 3N
Hammerhands 3D/4D
Highlander 732
Hoplite 4A/4C/4B
Hunchaback 4G
Hussar 200-D
Icarus II 1S
Javelin 10N
King Crab 010
Kintaro 19
Kyudo 02
Lancelot 01/05
Locust 1V/1S/1M
Lynx 9Q
Mackie 7A/8B/9H
Mercury 99
Mongoose 66
Night Hawk 2Q
Nightstar 9J
Orion K
Ostscout 8J
Panther 8Z/9R
Phoenix 3R/4R
Pillager 1N/3Z
Rampage 2G/4G/5G
Sentinel 1S/3L
Shadow Hawk 2H
Shootist 8A
Spider 5V
Stalker 3F/3H
Talon 5V/5W
Talos 1B
Thorn F/N
Thug 11E
Thunder Hawk 7X
Thunderbolt 5S
UrbanMech R60
Victor 9A/9A1/9B
Whitworth 1S/1/0
Wolverine 6R/6K
Ymir 2B/2E/3A

Follow up with a campaign book to accompany TRO: Clan invasion set around Bulldog (depending on how the average intro date is affected from '60 and '67).

As an educator, I don't agree with the firehose format. You don't teach anything like that effectively, especially when you presume a not insignificant portion of players have to teach themselves because there aren't any play groups in the neighborhood. If campaign books "don't sell," maybe the more alarming implications are 1) there aren't a sufficient number of players being attracted to the game to support new player products (distressing) and/or 2) they are marketed poorly to / inadequately designed for new players (self-inflicted). Or are scenario-type books just not popular with anyone in any system and not even worth making?

[Greatclub]

Javelin: I can see myself using this in some missions. Not if the goal is main damage though.
Wolverine: Not my first choice of introtech wolverines, but not something I'd dislike getting on a random roll.
Thunderbolt: PFFFT... HAAHAAHAA
Zeus: That's one way of saying stay away
Atlas: It would be so easy to optimize further, but I'd actually put it at about par with the 7-K.
Banshee: Wonders why they're using art for the 3S

[MoffMalthus]

I love the idea of a Star League campaign book for myself, but why for new players? The universe primer and the TRO and Record Sheets being marketed to them are geared toward the Succession Wars. I think I'd lean more toward something like Sword and Dragon, minus the prototype tech and set in the Third or Fourth War.

I'd love to see some more campaign books set in the 3rd/4th succession wars as well.  :thumbsup:

[Moonsword]

Okay, folks, I realize there are differences of opinion in BattleTech, but keep the exchanges focused on ideas and opinions, without any personal commentary on each other.  That's against the site rules and will earn you the moderation staff's attention in a manner you will not enjoy.

[ANS Kamas P81]

As an unabashed and unrepentant Thud modder, what's the warload?

[Sartris]

As an unabashed and unrepentant Thud modder, what's the warload?

AC/20, LRM-10

[mbear]

In my copy of RS: Succession Wars several of the designs (Devastator) has a Role heading underneath the Rules Level heading in the 'Mech Data box. That's the Alpha Strike role, correct?

It's not on every record sheet though, which is weird.

[nckestrel]

That's the Alpha Strike role, correct?

I know it's not your question, but the roles aren't "Alpha Strike roles".  They existed in BT long before Alpha Strike (in Box Sets, First Strike! and others) and are in Campaign Operations.

EDIT: As for the actual question, yes, that's what it is.  I suspect they're still implementing the feature and have some kinks and/or additional data to sort out.  They recently asked me for a MUL list of roles, as in this week.  So it was probably decided it wasn't worth holding up the release for.  (I haven't seen RS: SW yet, so there's a lot of assumptions there based on what little I do know).