Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?  (Read 167143 times)

Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #120 on: 21 February 2019, 08:04:04 »
The roles matter in standard rules for lance construction in CampOps as well as alpha strike

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #121 on: 21 February 2019, 08:59:14 »
And I for one thank the makers. Otherwise I had to always go back to checking the MUL for a unit's ROLE
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #122 on: 21 February 2019, 10:52:19 »
Looking at the new RS, I'm just curious.  When did the Cicada's Medium Lasers migrate from the arms to the torsos?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #123 on: 21 February 2019, 11:04:02 »
Looking at the new RS, I'm just curious.  When did the Cicada's Medium Lasers migrate from the arms to the torsos?

Even the original 3025 they where torso mounted, and the follow on TRO's have had them their.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #124 on: 21 February 2019, 11:12:42 »
yeah, it's always been that way. weirdly, the 3C has the machine guns in the legs.

this art never helped the perception

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #125 on: 21 February 2019, 12:20:08 »
After reading everyones comments I had to pick up the Succession Wars RS PDF. I like the additions.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #126 on: 21 February 2019, 15:03:12 »
yeah, it's always been that way. weirdly, the 3C has the machine guns in the legs.

this art never helped the perception


I think the same thing happens with the Orion too though to a lesser extent.  They put the SRM4 where?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #127 on: 21 February 2019, 15:10:43 »
Then there's the whole Banshee 5S debacle. Instead of changing the sheet to match the art, they eventually changed the art.   ???
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #128 on: 21 February 2019, 15:24:15 »
Art is always superseded by stats.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #129 on: 21 February 2019, 15:26:31 »
Art is always superseded by stats.
Occasionally it would be cooler to change the stats to match art though.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #130 on: 21 February 2019, 15:57:54 »
..... were made in MML....
Yep they were. We also switched the logo out and and replaced the era wording with the era icon.

RE - Roles
In my copy of RS: Succession Wars several of the designs (Devastator) has a Role heading underneath the Rules Level heading in the 'Mech Data box. That's the Alpha Strike role, correct?

It's not on every record sheet though, which is weird.

EDIT: As for the actual question, yes, that's what it is.  I suspect they're still implementing the feature and have some kinks and/or additional data to sort out.  They recently asked me for a MUL list of roles, as in this week.  So it was probably decided it wasn't worth holding up the release for.  (I haven't seen RS: SW yet, so there's a lot of assumptions there based on what little I do know).

The roles matter in standard rules for lance construction in CampOps as well as alpha strike

We added the role from the MUL for the book.  If the role is missing it's because at the time we implemented Roles in MegaMekLab last year the MUL didn't have them listed  We got the latest list of the MUL data as nckestrel to late to impact this book.

We also think having the roles on the sheet is a great way to support Campaigns Ops, and for players to help build their forces.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #131 on: 21 February 2019, 16:07:35 »
Occasionally it would be cooler to change the stats to match art though.

It's a lot more work though. And people don't like it when we mess with their existing stuff.  :-[
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #132 on: 21 February 2019, 16:15:44 »
It's a lot more work though. And people don't like it when we mess with their existing stuff.  :-[

Much more important that players are singing off the same sheet of music at the game table.

"Really, they're in the torso? Huh...the piece of art I saw once seemed like something else." = Not really a problem.

"Oh, that sheet is wrong, you have the old one. They're actually in the arms now, and I just blew one off, so cross that weapon off." = Problem.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #133 on: 21 February 2019, 17:28:33 »
Much more important that players are singing off the same sheet of music at the game table.

"Really, they're in the torso? Huh...the piece of art I saw once seemed like something else." = Not really a problem.

"Oh, that sheet is wrong, you have the old one. They're actually in the arms now, and I just blew one off, so cross that weapon off." = Problem.

Yeah; better to explain to someone on the tabletop; "hey, I know you picked that mech or made that decision in the game due to assumptions based on the appearance of the miniature you're looking at, but there was this error made 35 years ago no-one has ever bothered to fix. But had you thuroughly studied all record sheets, you would have known."

Art being one of the best marketting tools we have, afterall.

None of these are really big deals. Were a lot of people winning or losing games based on OstScout or Wasp hands? Orion arm-mounted SRMs? Probably not. This is the kind of thing that could have/should have been fixed many years ago and a little date on the record sheet book would have solved the problem. "Oh; yeah, you have the newer material. That's fair." Just like any other instance of updated material. Your -6(d) edition beats my -6(c) comes up at work a lot.

I know a position had to be taken, but in any setup where the art will be a big draw; siding with rules or even mistakes in the record sheets over art is going to feel like a bait and switch to new players. It's a matter of impressions; what do you see first? We are an "Army Book-First" game. The art, then the fluff, then the stats, then the rules, then the record sheets.

With the Cicada, specifically; this would have been an excellant opportunity to fix this problem and give a boost to a not-very-capable unit. Fast-moving mech...not a lot of firepower or protection...a wider arc of fire for the main weapons; especially in flipping arms would have been very, very welcome. As is...pretty meh, right?

Credit where it's due though; I like the new RS, but I wish we could have included the quirks on each sheet. Very cool aspect of the game now.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #134 on: 21 February 2019, 17:35:54 »
Credit where it's due though; I like the new RS, but I wish we could have included the quirks on each sheet. Very cool aspect of the game now.

When we release the new version of MegaMekLab you'll have the option to print the quirks on sheets. For official sheets we don't include them as they are an optional rule.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #135 on: 21 February 2019, 18:15:47 »
You guys are almost making me feel guilty for ignoring roles completely... almost...

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #136 on: 21 February 2019, 22:25:48 »
When we release the new version of MegaMekLab you'll have the option to print the quirks on sheets. For official sheets we don't include them as they are an optional rule.

Is MegaMekLab an offical program now??? That would be awesome.

But, aren't roles optional, as well? Surely.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #137 on: 21 February 2019, 22:32:04 »
It might not be official but it’s officially used. This isn’t the first time MML has been used for sheets

And since roles have no intrinsic value, I don’t understand how you’d make them not optional? They’re designations, nothing more. The only time they come into play in the rules is in optional force creation in CampOps

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #138 on: 21 February 2019, 22:32:12 »
Is MegaMek official Battletech program?
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #139 on: 21 February 2019, 22:39:01 »
MegaMek is used to make official record sheets.
Word* is used to write official sourcebooks.
Indesign* is used to layout official books.
*or whatever software a writer/layout artist uses.
But none of those are "official BattleTech software."
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #140 on: 21 February 2019, 23:15:33 »
MegaMek is used to make official record sheets.
Word* is used to write official sourcebooks.
Indesign* is used to layout official books.
*or whatever software a writer/layout artist uses.
But none of those are "official BattleTech software."

Sorry. You had me all excited that we had official design software again.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #141 on: 21 February 2019, 23:23:14 »
Sorry. You had me all excited that we had official design software again.

This is presumably why nobody said that in the first place.

(yes, I know that sounds snarky as hell and no, I don't know how to make it better)
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #142 on: 22 February 2019, 06:54:44 »
As long new record sheets are officially released again. Thats what matters most.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #143 on: 22 February 2019, 08:02:10 »
Indeed

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #144 on: 22 February 2019, 08:18:16 »
I'd like it if Amazon could make the POD option for Forever Faithful live now...

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #145 on: 22 February 2019, 16:17:45 »
Can't get enough of Shimmering Sword's artwork? Our art director, Anthony Scroggins, has re-launched his Patreon page with new, never-before-seen, in-progress BattleTech artwork--like this all-new Orion!

You'll see concept work for mech redesigns, and an inside look at how he manages the 3D modeling / miniatures production pipeline.

Check it out here: patreon.com/shimmeringsword

Get him up to $200/mo and he's promising to kick off next month with some juicy stuff...

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #146 on: 22 February 2019, 16:36:42 »
Makes me happy to see something like this, but also sad because I can't be a part of it. Patreon is dead to me. Other options to participate would be appreciated.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #147 on: 22 February 2019, 18:27:25 »
This is presumably why nobody said that in the first place.

(yes, I know that sounds snarky as hell and no, I don't know how to make it better)

It's cool, man. This is awesome; this is good stuff.

MML is a great program, that just keeps getting better and TPTB can use it to make great products. This is good.

I'd *like* an offical product like that, but that's 80% because it would make design stuff easier and 20% so i can give you more money for it and support the game (so long as it wasn't a subscription). MML is awesome and getting closer to doing everything with every update and they're good people.

Can't get enough of Shimmering Sword's artwork? Our art director, Anthony Scroggins, has re-launched his Patreon page with new, never-before-seen, in-progress BattleTech artwork--like this all-new Orion!

You'll see concept work for mech redesigns, and an inside look at how he manages the 3D modeling / miniatures production pipeline.

Check it out here: patreon.com/shimmeringsword

Get him up to $200/mo and he's promising to kick off next month with some juicy stuff...



I have really mixed feelings about this. I love Shimmering Sword's art, in general; I've been subbed to his DA for more than 10 years now, I think. But re-designing mechs makes me nervous.

I'm really glad it seems to get so many people excited about the game, but the old art and minis are fine for me. They were awesome in the late 90s when I got into the game and they rock now. So the silver lining is that maybe if i want more, people will sell theirs used for cheaper.

I worry though that in a game that has seen so much housekeeping (necessesary and prophylactic) in regards to art, that someday TPTB will say or have to say that the old art/minis are no longer official and they become unseen. Or at the very least, I can see the day when I pick up a sourcebook and the art no longer looks like my minis anymore. That will be a bummer.

I'm happy for you guys that are into this, really happy for Shimmering Sword, but it would be wonderful to have an official statement that we're not replacing art. Even better if you showed me something like the Old Flea and New Flea side by side with a throw-away line in a book that fleas look different because of when and where they were made or something like that.

And I empathize, because when I got the 4th ed Boxed set, it came with the little standees and they all had re-worked art and I still prefer some of them, even though they were never used again.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #148 on: 22 February 2019, 19:57:31 »

Thing is though,  your minis never become "unseen"  The only case where they've retroed art, is those few cases where they've *had* to.  And even then,  the minis aren't "unseen".  Unlike games like 40K (as an example), Battletech doesn't worry too much about what the mini on the tabletop looks like, because it' the record sheet that defines what the unit is, not the mini.

Yes,  there are circumstances where minis can't be used, like in the case of Demo Agents not being permitted to use the old "Unseen" for official games.  But in unofficial/home games?  Bet your *** I will break out my old waddly big-gun Thunderbolt (even though I love Mr. Scroggins's  redone one too!)


I look forward to seeing some of the designs redrawn,  and maybe even someday being able to get legal minis of them when he does them.  But doesn't mean if someone brought an old Awesome or Commando sculpt to the table I wouldn't let them use it.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #149 on: 22 February 2019, 20:55:17 »
Art being one of the best marketting tools we have, afterall.
Grant that if it's the art from the 30 year old mech designs that we're depending on to market the game, we've already shot ourselves in the foot.
Better to make sculpts that reflect the stats, and also improve the sculpts along the way.