BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Articles => Topic started by: marauder648 on 27 February 2015, 02:10:28
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When I use to play B-tech with my friends in my youth the Battle Hawk (often proxy modeled by an Imperial Guardsman) was a mech I used a lot of times. For a 30 tonne light it was tough and was simple to use with its armament of three Medium Pulse lasers and a SSRM-2 with an AMS to shield it, and it had double heat sinks (huzzah!).
Sure it wasn't fast for a light (5/8) and no jump jets but it was a tough little trooper with a (short ranged) bite for its size.
Has anyone else used this machine or its updated variant (light engine, ER Mediums and a SSRM-6)? And if so, what did you think of this little brawler, worth using or when offered one, did you hiss at it and bat at it with your hand?
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The battlehawk had JJs, 5 of them to be exact, and the XL engine sort of decreased survivability, but aside from that, it was nice enough.
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Sure it wasn't fast for a light (5/8) and no jump jets but it was a tough little trooper with a (short ranged) bite for its size.
Has anyone else used this machine or its updated variant (light engine, ER Mediums and a SSRM-6)? And if so, what did you think of this little brawler, worth using or when offered one, did you hiss at it and bat at it with your hand?
1) BH-K305 is equipped with Jump Jets, so it moves 5/8/5
2) The upgraded BH-K306 is not equipped with Streak SRM-6, but with smaller Streak SRM-4
Personally, I prefer BH-K306 since those ER Medium Lasers do not force me to get so close to the enemy. Plus, that Light engine makes it more durable.
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Can't disagree with any of the above. The K306 is a nasty customer for mid-range fighting- makes a great LRM boat bodyguard. Spiders and Harassers and the like that show up to pick at your Longbows and Archers don't really react well to a Battle Hawk or two on-hand.
The K305 is trickier due to the abysmal range on those pulse lasers- best use I've ever heard for it is to go Elemental-hunting.
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I've used both extensively as they are relatively cheap BV-wise and form a roll that some of the other "crappy" light 'mechs from 3055, 3058, and 3060 do quite well, and thats "escort." When I say escort, I really mean the lesser of two evils when it comes to target priority. When you have a Battle Hawk 30Doesn't Matter and a Falconer prancing about, in my experience the Falconer will have more shots directed at it. While there is always a poster that will respond with, "I'd go for the Battle Hawk because it has less armor," I've rarely if every seen that play out when all things (To-hit mods, terrain, range) are equal.
At any rate, I'm comfortable putting something like a Battle Hawk into a cavalry lance and it tends to fill a roll of ankle biter; it's there to be annoying and add firepower to larger, more frightening units. I won't mourn it's loss if it goes down, and if it does and you are that person that targets the "easier to kill" units, then thank you for not shooting at my scary stuff :)
I would never though put it at the head of a recon or pursuit lance by choice. It has enough firepower to garner some attention and will be dead as quick as the enemy can make it happen.
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I love the look of the Battle Hawk! It's odd enough to look cool!
The base version really does well as a bodyguard, but it's short range really hurts. The upgrade is far better obviously- but I do actually think the loss of AMS hurts a little. I really wish there was another upgrade focused around even more defense for missile carriers- VSPLs are typically good choices.
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I love the look of the Battle Hawk! It's odd enough to look cool!
The base version really does well as a bodyguard, but it's short range really hurts. The upgrade is far better obviously- but I do actually think the loss of AMS hurts a little. I really wish there was another upgrade focused around even more defense for missile carriers- VSPLs are typically good choices.
Actually, the upgraded model keeps its AMS.
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I've always had a soft spot for the Battle Hawk, probably because I like slow lights in general (even while acknowledging their limited utility). The original strikes me as best when you keep it away from the front lines. With an energy-heavy armament and streaks it can function as a raider, especially if the enemy is using low-quality assets to protect outposts while the good gear is sent to the line. It's also a good trainer, with the TRO entry rightly noting that pulse lasers are very forgiving for newer warriors. I could see these filling out Training Battalions and lighter academy Training Cadres. The garrison forces a lot of them were shipped to is, luckily enough, another good place for them. If the combat you're most likely to see is scumbag pirates in old mechs, the Battle Hawk is quite functional. It's a particularly adept bug hunter, being scarcely slower and able to rapidly punch through their weak armor, with the pulse bonus negating any TMM advantage they might have hope to gain via jumping. It's good against light vehicles as well. Because of it's bad reputation, particularly with the LCAF, you might be able to pick some up relatively cheap too. I like the -K306 even better, with its far greater range on the MLs, more durable engine, and overall (slightly) greater firepower, though I probably would've gone for a TC in lieu of extra missile tubes, because the pulse bonus is the one thing I really miss from the -K305. I'd be interested to see one that replaces the AMS with an electronics package of some sort, either BAP to increase its utility as a scout or GECM to help it survive and befuddle enemy scouts it's hunting.
All in all, it's a great little mech if the only opposition you're worried about is fairly light and/or outmoded, though it does lack AI capability, now that streak-2s can't fire infernos anymore. It would be a very good mech for low-end mercenary units that specialize in low-danger garrison and/or cadre contracts, or as the "heavy support" for a mercenary group that's dominated by infantry or light armor (think of the utility a group like Stalwart Support would get out of a company of Battle Hawks!). just don't take it up against modern heavy or assault mechs unless you've got plenty of buddies.
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Side note- this earns big props with me for being possibly the single most improved miniature in the Battletech line, from just awful to really cool (the Fireball shares this distinction). Looking forward to doing another resculpt sometime.
(http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/40_foxbat2RoyalGuardBattleHawk01.JPG)
(http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/61_Coventry_BattleHawk1.jpg)
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I've used it, and while I love the 306, the 305 is almost perversely durable given it's weaknesses. Part of this is because since it's slow, fragile, and has limited range it gets ignored for a few turns, but for some reason my rolls tend to favour it too.
Either version is a nice little trooper though with just enough flexibility to backstop a faster, stronger force of lights and mediums.
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When I say escort, I really mean the lesser of two evils when it comes to target priority. When you have a Battle Hawk 30Doesn't Matter and a Falconer prancing about, in my experience the Falconer will have more shots directed at it. While there is always a poster that will respond with, "I'd go for the Battle Hawk because it has less armor," I've rarely if every seen that play out when all things (To-hit mods, terrain, range) are equal.
Very much this. Despite what many people will say, I too have found that a slow light will often last a surprisingly long time if you simply give people something scarier to shoot at with equal or slightly better numbers. Heck, even simply running a heavy 'mech a couple hexes ahead of the light will do the trick. It's how I keep things like Falcon Hawks, Hammers, and Hellbringers alive long enough to dish out surprising amounts of damage. 8)
While I haven't actually used the Battle Hawk in any form yet, my initial impressions certainly fit in with many others. Use the -305 as an escort to discourage close attacks from hovertanks and other fast backstabbers, and make the -306 the close-quarters finisher of a cavalry or striker lance.
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Very much this. Despite what many people will say, I too have found that a slow light will often last a surprisingly long time if you simply give people something scarier to shoot at with equal or slightly better numbers. Heck, even simply running a heavy 'mech a couple hexes ahead of the light will do the trick. It's how I keep things like Falcon Hawks, Hammers, and Hellbringers alive long enough to dish out surprising amounts of damage. 8)
While I haven't actually used the Battle Hawk in any form yet, my initial impressions certainly fit in with many others. Use the -305 as an escort to discourage close attacks from hovertanks and other fast backstabbers, and make the -306 the close-quarters finisher of a cavalry or striker lance.
I have found the exact same, with my use of this mech. I also have to agree that the resculpt is a definite improvement. One thing I have noticed, as I do have an opponent that does know my affection for escort type mechs, and will target them, is that this mech can actually take a bit of damage to put down. The last time I used one, which was a 305, it absorbed a Gauss to the arm (sadly, the one with the lasers), and 2 ER PPC's........ inner sphere, but one to each side torso, resulting in a single crit on each side, one engine, and one heat sink...... However, it not only survived the fight, but the SSRM2 got a lucky crit, later, and took down a medium mech, via ammo..... but really, the best thing it did, that whole battle, was absorb 35 points of damage that could have gone to a more powerful mech, and could have even downed a heavy mech, and forced a different outcome of the battle..... For that reason, alone, I see a strong value in escort type designs, and always consider them, whenever I field a force.
And because this is a Marik design, I feel you should NEVER see a Hercules on the field, without one of these to escort it.
Nahuris
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Actually, it's a FedCom 'mech, not Leaguer. Trust me, if the Mariks got these, I'd be running Battle Hawk/Hammer lances on a regular basis. 3 Hammers to wreak havoc with their missiles, and a Battle Hawk-305(and the Hammers' own lasers) to make anyone regret closing...now that'd be a light support lance! O0
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Actually, it's a FedCom 'mech, not Leaguer. Trust me, if the Mariks got these, I'd be running Battle Hawk/Hammer lances on a regular basis. 3 Hammers to wreak havoc with their missiles, and a Battle Hawk-305(and the Hammers' own lasers) to make anyone regret closing...now that'd be a light support lance! O0
It's just natural to assume that a good slow Light is a Marik 'Mech.
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I could have sworn I read it was Free Worlds League.... but as a Fedcom design, I can pair it with so many serious designs.... that just opens more worlds of evil on my opponents.
Thank You
Nahuris
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I could have sworn I read it was Free Worlds League.... but as a Fedcom design, I can pair it with so many serious designs.... that just opens more worlds of evil on my opponents.
Thank You
Nahuris
Probably you are confusing the Battle Hawk (FedCom) with the Falcon Hawk (FWL). Both are similar slow light 'Mechs.
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Probably you are confusing the Battle Hawk (FedCom) with the Falcon Hawk (FWL). Both are similar slow light 'Mechs.
Likely.... but that doesn't lessen the Battlehawk, it just means my forces either bought, or salvaged one.....LOL
Actually, most of my opponents think I am odd, anyways.... I field things like slow lights, and Jagermechs by choice......... Seriously, the Panther is a viable solid design, all the way through the Dark Ages, and I don't yet see a reason for anything past the 3025 version.
Now, the Battlehawk 306 is intriguing. I haven't used one..... yet...... but those ER Mediums do open possibilities.... although they do raise the target profile of the design.
Nahuris
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Now, the Battlehawk 306 is intriguing. I haven't used one..... yet...... but those ER Mediums do open possibilities.... although they do raise the target profile of the design.
Nahuris
Still a Battle Hawk in people's minds :D
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Still a Battle Hawk in people's minds :D
Isn't it great when that happens? It's no big deal, just a _______, OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THAT VERSION!
(This exact scenario is how I discovered the very existence of the MML version of the Longbow- "at this body-punching range, he's harmless and I can deal with his friends while he tries to back away from- wait, what do you mean SRMs?")
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(This exact scenario is how I discovered the very existence of the MML version of the Longbow- "at this body-punching range, he's harmless and I can deal with his friends while he tries to back away from- wait, what do you mean SRMs?")
This got a nice sensible chuckle from me :)
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Isn't it great when that happens? It's no big deal, just a _______, OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THAT VERSION!
(This exact scenario is how I discovered the very existence of the MML version of the Longbow- "at this body-punching range, he's harmless and I can deal with his friends while he tries to back away from- wait, what do you mean SRMs?")
Haha, yeah.
"Wait, it has WHAT?"
"Yeah, sorry, forgot to mention that when i was shooting early. Or, I just didn't shoot that weapon to mess with your head or, well, honestly, it's your fault for not asking" ;D
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I like it, the original variant is good for if you don't have a good pilot, helps them keep up with more season pilots in terms of gunnery skills making them slightly more usable in campaign. XL can make thing cost more, but frankly i don't mind that if you get something out of it.
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Isn't it great when that happens? It's no big deal, just a _______, OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THAT VERSION!
(This exact scenario is how I discovered the very existence of the MML version of the Longbow- "at this body-punching range, he's harmless and I can deal with his friends while he tries to back away from- wait, what do you mean SRMs?")
That reminds me of the time that I introduced my friends to the HBK-6S Hunchback. Which has a 6/9 movement profile. >:D
Now regarding the Battle Hawk, it's definitely a fun light mech. One of my favorite uses for it is actually when I'm training beginning players- I give them a decent but not spectacular medium mech, and fact them using a BH. The Hawk is powerful enough that it's not a one-sided scenario, but at the same time it's not going to just stomp them barring extraordinary circumstances, creating a good challenge without much risk of excess frustration.
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That reminds me of the time that I introduced my friends to the HBK-6S Hunchback. Which has a 6/9 movement profile. >:D
I did that with infantry once. It may take forever to get a Maniple of jump troops across a map using only foot movement, but when they finally get there and someone thinks they're safe on the other side of a small hill...it's totally worth it. }:)
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Yeah, my friend had thought he'd moved his Awesome far enough back to avoid getting flanked. >:D
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Do have to say it does have a Marik feel to it. Agree 110% with Weirdo about the Hammer Battlehawk lance. Its a great mech for citytech. Good movement & damage for profile knife fighting in the city.
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Frankly I find it too specialized, and several important questions weren't answered in the design for me to like this mech.
What is this mech's purpose? It's speed says 'cheep harasser'. Save it has an armament loadout of an infighter. The armament says infighter, save in an era where mechs two and a half times it's mass can move just as fast it is unlikely to be able to close easily or control the range.
I'm not against using an XL engine, but they do induce a weakness in the design. As long as the payout in speed, firepower, or protection covers for that then we are good. Save this only saves three tons, and the speed was anemic for it's size even before the Clans showed up. And they specifically beefed the protection up for the Clan front! Given the 11th heat sink is superfluous outside of external heat or engine damage? Dumping a MPL or the SSRM-2 can easily get you to standard engine. Hell just pitching that extra DHS frees up enough mass to push the design to a more reasonable 6/9/6.
Frankly this mech looks like it was thrown together with no one paying attention to how the parts were going to function as a whole. Really in terms of role this feels like the Battlehawk, not the Fireball, should have been the anti-BA expert. Against Elementals the AMS to blunt the missile pack salvos, and Streaks plus triple MPLs can whittle down the points quickly. Even the excess cooling fits, for inferno missiles if clearing out Salamander points.
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keep in mind it dates to 3053. very early in the clan war period. pretty much right as the invasion ended. odds are the base chassis design predated the clans arriving, and like a lot of mechs, they quickly refit the weapons loads using data from the fights with the clans before going to production.
and anti-elemental might well have been on their minds.. certainly raiding was, since the MPL+streak loadout means greatly reduced reliance on logistics in the field. the slower speed isn't as big of an issue if it's being used as an escort for a heavier design as well.. and to be honest, a lot of clan lights are fairly slow themselves.
actually, i wonder what the original idea was.. it's weapons fraction and speed suggests something vaguely Pantherish.. the original mech might even have been intended as a 'Panther killer'
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Original idea? Upgraded commando. Battle hawk commando lances are good too.
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It's how I keep things like Falcon Hawks, Hammers, and Hellbringers alive long enough to dish out surprising amounts of damage. 8)
Ditto, so very Ditto.
While I haven't actually used the Battle Hawk in any form yet, my initial impressions certainly fit in with many others. Use the -305 as an escort to discourage close attacks from hovertanks and other fast backstabbers, and make the -306 the close-quarters finisher of a cavalry or striker lance.
I've had them on the battlefield all of 1-2x in 20 years. Its just not a unit I pick. But I've seen others do it. If you keep it protected it has the accuracy to be a decent bodyguard and with 5JJ it should never be on anyone's "Easiest Target #'s" list.
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i personally like the idea of using the little brawlers as low-priority guards for fire support. they're tough enough to stand up to most backstabbers and carry enough firepower to keep 'em at arm's length with just enough movement to intercept.
also they're fluffed with the full-head ejection cockpit thing, which is a valuable safeguard when you're the sort of player that the gamemaster takes personally.
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Isn't it great when that happens? It's no big deal, just a _______, OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THAT VERSION!
Hey when I came back to the game I got MegaMek and just started playing a star of my clan favorites versus random IS companies. Started at equal BV2 then 150% etc.
I had a lot of those moments. Hello Rifleman meet my Night Gyr prime! Wait, he fired what at me? A RAC5... oh 2 RAC5's, dang! Um, why is there a pile of parts where my Night Gyr was... Ooooh, crap.
That and one of the newer IS quads (I don't know which one, too many dang mechs) that killed a Mad Dog and Summoner in pretty short order. It finally died when my Executioner (which it also chewed on pretty good) Alpha'd it to death at 4 or 5 hexes.
I like when bad mechs get good updates. Good enough to become very useable but not impress enough to attract attention.
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Yeah, had that happen myself a little while back. ;D These days, I like to test out the forces I build for my weekly in-store games by throwing them at 3-4 bots in similar-BVed random forces in a big free-for-all(basically mimicking the in-store games). Recently had a bot spend a while wandering in a corner after defeating the token stuff that deployed near it, then come after me. No real problems, but it was quite a rude surprise when it got close, and who the hell put an Ultra-20 on a Paladin!? >:(
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I actually like it as a light trooper. tough enough to take a bit of a beating, carries just enough fire power in a small package to be a surprise. I only used it once though, and it was a escort to keep my heavies, or LRM boats from being flanked.
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Man I completely forgot about the very existence of this thing
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I'd see it as a perfect close range support/escort for long ranged units like a Longbow or basic Awesome (standard PPCs and a Small Laser Of Victory) or even the mammoth multi-Gauss Thunderhawk
In a campaign setting, units of these might be good for running recon for slow moving convoys against ambush and using 'Mech sensors to look for mines and things
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I like it mostly as a BA hunter. For mech combat its not that its slow, its average speed/mobility and short-ranged, which has made for some frustrating games. The 305 mixes in kinda nicely with Hollanders and Wolfhounds in all light games. The 306's ERMLs do a nice job of making it more a threat.
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I think either version of the Battlehawk would serve as a great complement to the other predominant 5/8/5 Mech in the AFFS arsenal, the Valkyrie. Have it serve (as several others have suggested) as a close escort in a Medium/Light Fire lance with a pair of the Valkyries and a Dervish...
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Side note- this earns big props with me for being possibly the single most improved miniature in the Battletech line, from just awful to really cool (the Fireball shares this distinction). Looking forward to doing another resculpt sometime.
(http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/40_foxbat2RoyalGuardBattleHawk01.JPG)
(http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/61_Coventry_BattleHawk1.jpg)
THAT really is a jaw-dropping improvement! I wish they'd do something similar with the Gunslinger, and fix those spindly arms! Maybe into something more like the arms on the MAD-5L miniature.
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Here's my feeble attempt to improve the Battle Hawk. Not the best of solutions maybe, but it's a tough design to fix.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51368.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51368.0)