Are we missing SL-era DSE, or Escort DropShips

[Colt Ward]

Re-reading the Xwing series on my kindle, I got the the part in the 1st book where the Rogues are escorting a Y-wing squadron in a ground attack only to find a Lancer drops into their exit vector with a Carrack cruiser.  So it occurred to me . . . if during the Reunification War or later times of the SL, they did not build warships directly for escort/screen duty and we have that theory of the large cargo bays for supporting the flotilla to include DS with limited cargo space (The crew & troops on a Union for the four or eight month fleet movement are getting their rations, parts & water from that SovSoy they are riding on) . . . did they put DS out for fleet screen/pickets?

Honestly, in the Reunification War they had to break their way into some very tough system and orbital defenses where they lost significant number of ships and droppers.  Surely besides building carriers they would have copied the Empire's solution and start spitting out Lancer- style escort dropships (faster to build than warships and more disposable- two of the big requirements for escorts).  Like their bigger brethren they would have been wiped out in the Succession Wars- maybe surviving longer but once true warships are gone they would be too powerful not to use or group for use.

My first thought was to clone a Lancer- give it a BUNCH of IS LPL . . . but that would be later SL-era and would their be a more effective weapon to go after ASF, SC, mines, missiles, etc?

[Starfox1701]

Have you read Jelico's artical on the SLDF's unified combat doctrine?

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,26556.0.html

[marauder648]

To me the SLDF's fleet organisation has always been absurdly wonky.  They seemingly lacked any escort/assault dropships outside of the Pentagon and they were late comers but were superb. 

The SLDF also seemingly utterly forgot that fighter strikes were a thing.  Its like a modern day admiral or naval design bureau saying "Well we don't need SAM's because planes won't be a threat." whilst designing a replacement for X countries main line destroyer.

This is mainly due to them being seemingly written with a different rules set than the house ships we see in 3057/3067 but still.

[Minemech]

 Another way to think of it is that they did not care. They had supremacy against anyone, but themselves, and needed to simply needed projection abilities. They did have some warships with descent naval laser, and missile screening abilities. Acceleration was a bigger issue, but they did not have a strong enough competent foe to force it into an issue, until the Amaris Coup. Sometimes you build a navy around assuming supremacy. There are definitive advantages to this, and weaknesses.

[idea weenie]

I've figured that part of the cargo capacity was extra tonnage for refittable weaponry/equipment.  Expecting EM-high environment?  Load up on extra targeting sensors/ECCM systems.  Expect lots of enemy fighters?  Load up on AA standard weaponry for antifighter duty.  Enemy has lots of Dropships?  Load up on Standard weaponry optimized for punching through Dropships before they get too close.  Science mission?  Load up on probes to be fired through AR-10 or other missile launchers.  Long mission?  Load up on fuel/other consumables.

[Minemech]

 If you want an offensive navy, cargo capacity is a key to force projection. Some ships may act as parasites, but they need ships like the Vincent to keep them going, or collars with the right dropships. Martime powere such as the Terran Hegemony and the Free Worlds League seem to have put much stock into it.

I've figured that part of the cargo capacity was extra tonnage for refittable weaponry/equipment.  Expecting EM-high environment?  Load up on extra targeting sensors/ECCM systems.  Expect lots of enemy fighters?  Load up on AA standard weaponry for antifighter duty.  Enemy has lots of Dropships?  Load up on Standard weaponry optimized for punching through Dropships before they get too close.  Science mission?  Load up on probes to be fired through AR-10 or other missile launchers.  Long mission?  Load up on fuel/other consumables.

You rightly note that cargo can be adjusted in upgrades to deal with particular types of foes.

[Liam's Ghost]

To me the SLDF's fleet organisation has always been absurdly wonky.  They seemingly lacked any escort/assault dropships outside of the Pentagon and they were late comers but were superb. 

The SLDF also seemingly utterly forgot that fighter strikes were a thing.  Its like a modern day admiral or naval design bureau saying "Well we don't need SAM's because planes won't be a threat." whilst designing a replacement for X countries main line destroyer.

This is mainly due to them being seemingly written with a different rules set than the house ships we see in 3057/3067 but still.

I feel compelled to mention the Titan dropship.

[Weirdo]

The Achilles seems to have been their default combat dropper.

[Maingunnery]

I think that there might also have been refitted primitive combat dropships, that we have yet to see in a TRO.
Something that did the job well enough and of which there was an excessive supply.

[2ndAcr]

 Pentagon dropship also

[Jellico]

What is the opforce that needs high end assault ships?

[Giovanni Blasini]

And the Model 96 Elephant, which provided both yard support and assault force escort.

[Starfox1701]

And the Model 96 Elephant, which provided both yard support and assault force escort.

Seconded who they going to fight?

[Weirdo]

Pirates, "pirates", Periphery crankies, and the rampaging Great House or three the SLDF trained their entire existence to stop.

[Colt Ward]

Which was also why I mentioned the Reunification War . . . the Taurians wrecked Star League fleets a time or two- keeping ASF, SC and missiles at a further distance by disposable DSE would be a better idea than losing those warships.

[Starfox1701]

The Reunification War is a bad example here. The SLDF was led than 20 years old and still trying to integrate the various house troops and Hegemony Forces into a single cohesive fighting force. It only comprised at this point 30 divisions total not the 400+ divisions of the Arimis Coup era. The force was a mongrel with huge teething problems not the pedigrees thourghbred of 2 centuries later.  The best way to look at it is that the SLDF was basically just like the US military at the beginning of WW2 and like the US military they became a powerful coherent fighting force by the end of that 20 years of war

[Colt Ward]

Yes, which is why when they are getting chewed up by Taurian aerospace defenses they would look for a quick fix- a escort DS.

[Starfox1701]

You are assuming that such drop ships existed or could be easily built at the time. The Reunification War Sourcebook which I have been reading the last few days says that combat dropers where uncommon at this time and that converting civilian ships took years. It also notes that the Taurinan battles where the first large scale space battles in human history. Third it notes that all governments where saddled with the huge expense of maintaining a sphere wide command circuit just for the purposes of transmitting communications. HPGs are still like 75 years away.

 At the time such ships would have needed to be designed and built and crewed and moved to the front. This is something that many people have trouble grasping is the absolutely snails pace of wars in a world without instant or near instant communication. It really looks like they tried to adapt but by the time they did start implementing things the war was over and since This was the last war before the fall there was never anything to speed the process or realisticly test the effectiveness of their ideas. Sure we can set back and armchair admiral the SLN but their evolution based on historic events is actually quite natural and a reflection how real world militaries tend to evolve overlong periods of relative peace.

[Liam's Ghost]

This is the SLDF we're talking about. I'm pretty sure their quick fix was more destroyers.  ;D

[pheonixstorm]

More like. Put more guns on it until it breaks, then reinforce it and put even MORE guns on it.

[Alan Grant]

They had the Titan, Intruder, Elephant, Achilles and Pentagon. Because of its firepower, the Titan can be a carrier AND fight if desperation calls.

Considering what was flying around as opposition, they had a pretty good spread. I can build a decent era SLDF dropship squadron out of that lineup.

Don't forget about all that Level 2 tech (Royal) fighter tech they had as well. When the opposition is flying Level 1 tech fighters, your Level 2 tech fighters look pretty lethal.

[truetanker]

Your might be forgetting the Aquarius and Lyonesse escorts? Small Craft, while fluff states Orbit-Space protection, all you'll need is 200 tons to travel with one.

Why not a Small Craft carrier, a modified Leopard, Leopard CV or Confederate?

TT

[marauder648]

And one thing you could easily do, just say that the refitted dropships in TRO3057 were also available to Royal Commands during the SLDF era.