TSM, MASC, Supercharger, or there's no substitute for cubic inches?

[Zaskar24]

All other things being equal around 3145 or so which would you go with as the wing 'Mech for a melee 'Mech with TSM? Downside to TSM is the crits that it takes and the chance that both units won't be in the sweet spot for TSM at the same time. MASC and a supercharger can be used when needed to keep up with the sudden burst of speed that activated TSM provides, as long as it makes the roll and doesn't immobilize the 'Mech. Running a unit that matches the TSM speed with a bigger engine cuts down on room for weapons or armor or heat sinks but does not have to worry about any of the above.

I am thinking a Clan Omni custom configuration for either the MASC or supercharger, Nova Cat or Night Gyr possibly.

I am thinking a Falconer with Clan spec weapons and a few other mods or a custom Karhu configuration for the 5/8 'Mech.

Please note, this is not a discussion of the melee "Mech and how to best use one and what melee weapon or technique is best, already done that here once.

 

[Bosefius]

This is not the place for custom designs. You can discuss basic upgrades or the advantages equipment will give you. Do not list custom designs or discuss them here.

There's a specific section of the board to discuss custom designs, this is not it.

[Zaskar24]

I was not intending to discuss custom designs. I was only asking for thoughts on the named equipment and was listing what I was looking at doing to give people an idea of what I was thinking and see if anyone had any thoughts on them.

[marcussmythe]

All other things being equal around 3145 or so which would you go with as the wing 'Mech for a 4/6 melee 'Mech with TSM? Downside to TSM is the crits that it takes and the chance that both units won't be in the sweet spot for TSM at the same time. MASC and a supercharger can be used when needed to keep up with the sudden burst of speed that activated TSM provides, as long as it makes the roll and doesn't immobilize the 'Mech. Running a 5/8 unit cuts down on room for weapons or armor or heat sinks but does not have to worry about any of the above.

I am thinking a Clan Omni custom configuration for either the MASC or supercharger, Nova Cat or Night Gyr possibly.

I am thinking a Falconer with Clan spec weapons and a few other mods or a custom Karhu configuration for the 5/8 'Mech.

TSM can be a pain to juggle, and may not be there when you need it - also, heat-inducing weaponry loves you for trying.

MASC is big and bulky and on demand, but sooner or later you wreck your mech.

Superchargers are smaller than MASC but insanely expensive - and sooner or later you wreck your mech.

My personal prediliction is to avoid opportunities for the dice to ruin your day if at all possible - Im a fan of putting on a larger engine if I need to go faster.  Outside of that, MASC or a Supercharger can be solid if your self control is - best use it to get out of trouble.  If you use it to get INTO trouble, your TNs are climbing when now youw ant to get out...

[Zaskar24]

Thank you for the reply marcussmythe. I am leaning the same way at this point, better to always have it then to rely on dice rolls or having both units in the TSM sweet spot at the same time.

I would appreciate other opinions on this as well.

[DOC_Agren]

Bigger Engine
Supercharger boost to E&E if need be

I have had horrible dice luck with MASC mech ending as immobile targets on the board

TSM for a melee mech can be nice if you can heat manage well, but your enemy if they know you need to warm up, might help you too much...

[Firesprocket]

4/6 is snail speed for a mech that wants to get in melee range.  Finding the right mix of speed and power is essential to be successful.  What type of physical attack you are going for is also going to factor into your unit.  Kicking is the easiest and least equipment dependent way to commit to a physical.  Punching or melee weapon attacks otherwise soak up tonnage and space that could have improved your damage as you close to range.  Once you figure that out it is easier to plan things out.

Physical weapons, unless you are a level higher, aren't giving you any better chance to hit the sweat spot of the head so I generally focus on kicking.  It won't get you an outright kill and if you are fighting against a quad the damage spreads out more, but the amount of people that play exclusively quads is fairly rare.   Kicks will go to one of two places when hitting something from the front (why would you be there) or the rear.  From the side its only going one place so knowing where the damage will go is also a plan.  Kicks leads to pilot checks which at some point will likely be failed or end up with a mech on their back which is just as good.

Punches on their own should be fine as long as you can produce at least 12 points of damage with your punch.  Having both hands to punch gives you more chances to hit the head.  I find melee weapons, with the exception of talons, pretty much a waste on tonnage to damage so getting the target is the largest factor of success. So my break down of most important items are as follows:

1) larger engine for ideal speed
2) jump jets
3) TSM
4) Super charger
5) MASC

MASC can't be used with TSM and the detrimental effects of a failed roll are usually more damaging than any other critical hit to the other items.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'll second the call to avoid MASC: a failed roll badly cripples your mech, often to the point of effectively taking it out.

[Starfox1701]

Timber Wolf is a 5/8 omni

[mbear]

Physical weapons, unless you are a level higher, aren't giving you any better chance to hit the sweat spot of the head ...

I just want to point out that this is probably the most serendipitous autocorrect ever. Talking about TSM and heat, and the "sweat spot" comes up.

To the OP: Bigger engine first because that will always be able to perform. Supercharger next, because it's not going to lock your leg actuators and it's fairly light and small. TSM is weight free, and works at any heat greater than 9, so you don't really have anything to lose by using it. MASC has never impressed me because the benefits of double walking speed at the possible cost of a catastrophic failure just didn't seem worth it.

Since you're planning to use this 'Mech as a partner to a TSM equipped melee unit, you may want to go a different route altogether. How about using long range fire to distract/harass the target?

[glitterboy2098]

I am thinking a Clan Omni custom configuration for either the MASC or supercharger, Nova Cat or Night Gyr possibly.

that limits your options to just the Supercharger. MASC and TSm have to be installed at initial design, they cannot be pod mounted.
the utility of a supercharger on heavier Omni's is a debate in itself.. while the item is fairly light and small, the boost it gives is relative to the mech's base movement, and it can be argued that gaining only an extra 1 or 2 MP is not much of an advantage.

though i once designed a Hellbringer config using a supercharger and modular armor. .the armor offset some of the hellbringer's more notable flaws, and the super charger let it offset the movement penalty.. being 5/7 but able to run 10 every other turn..

[Colt Ward]

Glitterboy took my point, with a current Omni the only thing you could do is SuperCharger since it IS pod-mountable (For giggles, check out the Executioner with it . . . 95t mech that goes 4/6(8[10])/4 . . . 18 point kicks on something that can move 10 hexes without needing TSM.  Per canon if you take a Omni and replace its myomer with MASC or TSM you 'broke' whatever made it a Omni.

As for Supercharger's cost . . . bah, that is the 3050 NAIS experimental cost- not the 'it became common' 3140s cost.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Gladiator (omni) is 95 tons.  It delivers 19 point kicks, not 18 pointers.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, said it was 95 . . . had other numbers floating through my head calculating the kick.  Problem of working with numbers a lot, lol.

[Challenger]

Left to my own devices I’d fit TSM to everything.

There is something about giving a 55ton mech a 12pt punch and 22pt kick that realy appeals to me!

Challenger

[Zaskar24]

DOC_Agren, MoneyLovinOgre4Hire, Starfox1701, mbear, and glitterboy2098 thank you for addressing the question at hand.

Based on these answers I will be going with there is no substitute for cubic inches. While the TSM would be my first choice the ability to have both 'Mechs in it's sweet spot is to chancy.

mbear, the plan is for this 'Mech to provide cover fire for the melee one so it will be built primarily around long range weapons, most likely energy so that it can lay down fire and not have to worry about running out of ammo from missed long range shots. But that is a discussion for another area of the boards. 

[Bosefius]

Locked at request of OP