TRO's and data sheets

[traitorer]

So I am looking at this PDF file of a fan made TRO and in the descriptions of the mechs it has all the structure and armor pts listed. Now I know I can just use blank sheets and black out the extra bubbles I dont need for said mech.

My question here is if I just buy the other TRO's do they list all the armor on each mech and weapon locations and what not. And if so then I could just use the blank sheets. Or do you all recommend buying the data sheets for said TRO books?

Thank you all

[Sartris]

TROs only give you the bare bones data. You need the record sheets. TROs are designed as setting sourcebooks rather than game construction guides

[guardiandashi]

you could go either way.

the TRO will give you the information on the armor, internal structure, and what weapons are in which location but it doesn't provide details about which critical slot equipment is officially mounted in. that is what the record sheets have

I will say it shouldn't matter, but in some cases it might

[traitorer]

Thank you for the info.

[Sartris]

The advantage to the pregen record sheets is that you don’t have to make them yourself

[Empyrus]

The advantage to the pregen record sheets is that you don’t have to make them yourself

This is a so big time saver, provided you know where the variant you're looking for is (hint: the Master Unit List tells this). Look up the sheet, press print.

Aand hope there's no need for errata. I once printed a Vindicator only to later realize the sheet was missing a medium laser.

[Greatclub]

you could go either way.

the TRO will give you the information on the armor, internal structure, and what weapons are in which location but it doesn't provide details about which critical slot equipment is officially mounted in. that is what the record sheets have

I will say it shouldn't matter, but in some cases it might

TROs need to start mentioning where heat sinks go. Other than that, who cares where the endo/ferro winds up, they're functionally re-rolls.

[Empyrus]

Also hand and lower arm actuators.

Not mentioning heat sinks is kinda weird given that Omni configs do that, so why not just extend that to standard 'Mechs?

[worktroll]

I remember older discussions which demonstrated that - provided the crit rules are followed properly - it makes no difference how crits are distributed in one location, as long as they're in the right location. (Short form - if you're rollin for crits in the torso, rolling "lo-hi" and then location, if you get 'empty' or the like, re-roll both dice.

So for most cases the TRO details can provide you with enough details to make a legit record sheet. Arm crits being a potential issue though, true.

You'll find free design tools like MegaMekLabs and SSW provide the ability to quickly print record sheets. These are, on the whole, accurate, as far as they reflect the current state of rules & equipment. But at a con, or Demo Team game, they'll provide copies of formal Record Sheets, as there used to be a whole range of bugs in design programs like them, or HMP, which could be exploited.

The one thing formal Record Sheets are the only source for, is placement for variants mentioned but not statted in TROs - essential for kitbashing & accurising. Oh, and playing, too ;)

[Red Pins]

The advantage to the pregen record sheets is that you don’t have to make them yourself is that no inadvertent mistakes or cheating happen.

FTFY.

So I am looking at this PDF file of a fan made TRO and in the descriptions of the mechs it has all the structure and armor pts listed. Now I know I can just use blank sheets and black out the extra bubbles I dont need for said mech.

My question here is if I just buy the other TRO's do they list all the armor on each mech and weapon locations and what not. And if so then I could just use the blank sheets. Or do you all recommend buying the data sheets for said TRO books?

Thank you all

Its generally an oversight to not include RS in fan-made TROs.  Sometimes a separate book will be released, such as RS:3063 by Cent13, but these are few and far between.  Generally its up to the user to deal with it, since empty sheets are pretty common, and the official placement of HS, E-S, FF, etc., doesn't do much to alter the flavor or intent of the unit.  Sometimes it results in unforeseen consequences as crits run over and such, though.

If you're looking for a source of canon sheets, may I suggest https://sheets.flechs.net/?  I don't play much anymore and haven't needed sheets for years, but it looks excellent.

[nckestrel]

Heat sinks allocation for location is not mentioned in TROs though.  And whether or not it has hand or lower arm actuators.  That's why those are requested.  You need to know those to make a record sheet.  We're not talking about which crit in a location, but which location.  If the AWS has 18 heat sinks, and only 10 fit in the engine, where are the other 8? (made up numbers, not an actual AWS variant).  The TRO is so close to being able to create a record sheet, but is missing those few items.

[Sartris]

FTFY.

You didn’t. I don’t have trust issues and losing because of human error or petty cheating isn’t something I lose sleep over

[Red Pins]

I don't either.  Mistakes happen, I've done it myself and since locals knew my rep, had no problem.  But if you're going to run a tourney, you need a standard.  Hence why they hand out official sheets at conventions, too.

[BATTLEMASTER]

You can also print record sheets with 'mech design programs like MegaMekLab and Solaris Skunk Werks.

[RifleMech]

XTROs usually come with RS. Some Sourcebooks also have RS for the units in them.

If you don't mind filling them out there's blank sheets available for just that. I would recommend being consistent though. If you can help it, don't rearrange things every time you fill out a sheet for that unit. In fact, if possible, fill out the sheets once and then make copies of them for use.  Otherwise the premade record sheets will be faster.

I don't know why HS aren't listed in TROs. You'd think they would be. I was surprised to see that they were in the German version of TRO:3058.

[GRUD]

Also hand and lower arm actuators.

Not mentioning heat sinks is kinda weird given that Omni configs do that, so why not just extend that to standard 'Mechs?

I thought the Omnis only mentioned Additional Heat Sinks?   ???


And when it comes down to it, WHY does it matter "Where" the crits are, so long as they're present "Somewhere" ?  And I'm referring to the "Fiddly Bits", like extra heat sinks, Endo and FF.  So long as all the Crit Spaces are accounted for, it shouldn't matter if they're where the "Official" RS says they are or not.  Not like they have any impact on the game being somewhere different than where the "Official" sheet says they are.

[RifleMech]

I thought the Omnis only mentioned Additional Heat Sinks?   ???


And when it comes down to it, WHY does it matter "Where" the crits are, so long as they're present "Somewhere" ?  And I'm referring to the "Fiddly Bits", like extra heat sinks, Endo and FF.  So long as all the Crit Spaces are accounted for, it shouldn't matter if they're where the "Official" RS says they are or not.  Not like they have any impact on the game being somewhere different than where the "Official" sheet says they are.

Ideally they shouldn't but not everything is ideal.  :(  And some items like heat sinks can be used to pad locations like side torso ammo bombs. That will change how a unit will play, especially if those heat sinks are officially located in the arms or legs.

[dgorsman]

Omni TRO entries list fixed heatsinks, so you know how many slots in a location are left for pods.

Heat sink location can be important, especially for 3025-era Mechs.  There's a difference between them being in a leg (extra dissipation in water), an arm (less heat dissipation when dis-armed), or torso (padding against ammo bin).

[Greatclub]

And when it comes down to it, WHY does it matter "Where" the crits are, so long as they're present "Somewhere" ?  And I'm referring to the "Fiddly Bits", like extra heat sinks, Endo and FF.  So long as all the Crit Spaces are accounted for, it shouldn't matter if they're where the "Official" RS says they are or not.  Not like they have any impact on the game being somewhere different than where the "Official" sheet says they are.

Omni TRO entries list fixed heatsinks, so you know how many slots in a location are left for pods.

Heat sink location can be important, especially for 3025-era Mechs.  There's a difference between them being in a leg (extra dissipation in water), an arm (less heat dissipation when dis-armed), or torso (padding against ammo bin).

The best mech to illustrate why is the classic marauder. It has a ton of ammo in the left torso and nothing else. if a crit lands there, it's 100% confetti. It also has four heat sinks that aren't in the engine.

Officially they're in the legs. But put one in the left torso and you make getting a single left torso crit 50% survivable. Put one in the center torso and there is a chance that engine and gyro might not be hit with a crit there. Leave them in the legs and the mech and it cools down better in water.


I've only met one guy who cared about where endo/ferro slots are. It matters not to gameplay.

[GRUD]

Kuso. Do I need to turn in my "Old Fart" Card now?   :-\ 

Been playing since '86, and I TOTALLY overlooked the leg heat sinks/water thing.   xp

[RoseanneRosannadanna]Nevermind.[/RoseanneRosannadanna]

 ;D