Clan units gifted during Jihad / to ROTS. What happened to them ?

[JAMES_PRYDE]

As in where did all the units gifted by the Clans (to the RoTs) end up (by ilClan era) ?

As this is an interesting story someone said recently, that they were allowed to set up their own enclaves, iron wombs, culture, etc

[Guardian11]

We have the most information on the fates of Nova Cats and Wolves, because they formed coherent splinter factions that were a major focus of the Dark Age game and era. We can't really track them by unit, because the front line forces were intentionally mixed together and integrated with the House and Comstar units to form the RAF and their Hastati, Principes, and Triari Brigades. Though we do know that each Clan community did form militias that would serve as parts of the Republic Standing Guard, because Kal Radick got his start commanding a Clan Wolf militia unit known as the Bright Fang. It was in fact the Clan militias of Prefecture IV that would form the core of the Steel Wolves.

Many of the Nova Cats formed the Spirit Cats that would eventually settle in the Free Worlds League and help form the Clan Protectorate, some of them also traveled to the Nova Cats of the Draconis Combine to convince them to join them, though only Kisho Nova Cat's remnant was able to escape the Nova Cat annihilation after they supported Emi Kurita and Katana Tormark over Yori Kurita. Also, many Nova Cats remained with the Republic up until its end including a Paladin who died in the fighting for Terra.

The Wolves formed the Steel Wolves around Kal Radick, who was eventually killed by Anastasia Kerensky, who took them for her own. She eventually would form a mercenary force known as the Wolf Hunters, which would shed many Steel Wolves. By the ilClan era many, if not most, of the Steel Wolves have made their way to Clan Wolf proper, with many of those that Anastasia Kerensky had seeded throughout the Inner Sphere now being recalled to serve her and Clan Wolf, if the short story Wars and Rumors is to be believed. Like the Nova Cats many Wolves remained loyal to the Republic, including a freeborn of Irish/Wolf Elemental stock, known as Padraig, who lived on Skye.

The Ghost Bears we don't hear much of, though it could be likely they helped to form the Vega Protectorate, and were thus absorbed into the Rasalhague Dominion.

The Falcon and Horse descendants we know the least about, especially since they seem to have been the least numerous of the Clan settlers in the Republic.

[tassa_kay]

The Ghost Bears we don't hear much of, though it could be likely they helped to form the Vega Protectorate, and were thus absorbed into the Rasalhague Dominion.

I don't think the Republican Bears had anything at all to do with Vega; they were never mentioned in any of the source material, and the Bears proper were invited into the Prefecture by the Republic in the first place to help them stabilize the region. The only Bear enclave we know of in the Republic was on Tigress, and is where Geoff Bekker originated.

The Falcon and Horse descendants we know the least about, especially since they seem to have been the least numerous of the Clan settlers in the Republic.

The Horses had a single enclave in the Republic, in the northern grasslands on Ruchbah, and produced some of the Republic's best infantry. Also this is presumably where Kara Fletcher originated. I assume that the Clan activist Nishawn Cooper mentioned in ER:DA is also a Republican Horse, since Cooper is a Horses-exclusive Bloodname.

Have we seen a single Republican Falcon character or enclave even mentioned?

[Metallgewitter]

Did the Horses even gift units to the forming RAF? I know the Falcons gifted one entire Galaxy to the RAF but the Horses didn't. I know that David Lear trialed Khan Cobb for 1 cluster and Kahn Cobb did send said unit (seeded with watch agents to gather information) but said cluster returned to horse space after fighting on Mars. Perhaps some indivdual warriors decided to stay but in terms of gifting units the Horses did none.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Falcons gifted Alpha Galaxy...

[wantec]

When Devlin Stone's coalition formed the Republic, certain units were gifted from the Clans to the Republic. Pg 167 of FM 3085 lists the following units as gifted to the Republic at its forming:
CGB Tenth Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Thirtieth Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Thirty-third Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Forty-second Provisional Garrison Cluster
CJF Alpha Galaxy
CNC Alpha Galaxy
CNC Delta Galaxy
CNC Tau Galaxy
CWF Delta Galaxy
While not listed there we know there was a collection of Hell's Horses gifted as well, and from what I can tell it wasn't a specific unit. I want to say they were in a Sharpnel story in the last handful of issues. Even without the Horse Cluster, that's 6 Galaxies-worth of Clan units that joined the Republic.


What happened to those forces is another matter. Some were mixed into the RAF line units (Hastati, Principes, & Triarii), a few went into the Knights/Paladins/Special Forces, and many of those clan units were formed into planetary militias. These militia were allowed to form Clan-style enclaves with iron wombs, clan-style sibkos, trials, etc. Under the Republic Standing Gurad section of FM3085, pg 185, first paragraph on the page briefly mentions these Clan-style units & enclaves. This is all discussed in more detail in the WizKids Dark Age materials, but has been brought over to the Catalyst-side in bits & pieces.

As the Dark Age fell, the loss of the HPG network isolated most planets. In an effort to gain control portions of these militia splintered from the Republic into the Steel Wolves and Spirit Cats (as well as the other house-aligned factions) and that's all discussed in Era Digest Dark Age. Kal Radick, the first leader of the Steel Wolves, was the Prefect (military CO) of the RAF units in Prefecture IV.

[tassa_kay]

Kal Radick, the first leader of the Steel Wolves, was the Prefect (military CO) of the RAF units in Prefecture IV.

An interesting tidbit from ER:DA: Kal Radick was also the Galaxy Commander “over the Clan militia Clusters in Prefecture IV”, which makes me wonder if this was a rank that existed in other Prefectures.

[Metallgewitter]

When Devlin Stone's coalition formed the Republic, certain units were gifted from the Clans to the Republic. Pg 167 of FM 3085 lists the following units as gifted to the Republic at its forming:
CGB Tenth Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Thirtieth Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Thirty-third Provisional Garrison Cluster
CGB Forty-second Provisional Garrison Cluster
CJF Alpha Galaxy
CNC Alpha Galaxy
CNC Delta Galaxy
CNC Tau Galaxy
CWF Delta Galaxy

The question would be how combat worthy those units actually were. We are talking the end of the Jihad here. For example the Combine gifted the 9th Sword of Light which at that point was nothing more then a battalion of warriors that were viewed with suspicion. Plus the Falcon's Alpha Galaxy were the dregs of the Falcons. On the other hand the Nova Cats gifted their best troops to the Republic.

[Guardian11]

Clan Wolf's Delta Galaxy was where pretty much all the Wardens left in the Crusader Wolves were concentrated after all but one Cluster of Omega Galaxy defected to the Horses. Considering the defection of Omega Galaxy Vlad Ward and the other Crusaders Wolves likely viewed all the other Wardens with a fair amount of suspicion. So it made sense for Khan Vlad to gift a Galaxy of what he likely viewed as potential traitors to the Republic. However, unlike Omega Galaxy the Wardens of Delta Galaxy were all front-line quality Warriors, with some like Loremaster Katya Kerensky, being politically as well as militarily prominent. As of 3079, according to Field Report: Clans, Delta Galaxy had 3 Clusters and a Keshik, and averaged a strength of about 25-30% of full. So, the equivalent of probably a full Cluster's worth of personnel. The most prominent Clan Wolf contribution was Loremaster Katya, who would eventually become a Paladin of the Republic.

[Stormlion1]

I had figured they were broken up and fitted into the various Republic Regiments formed.

[tassa_kay]

I had figured they were broken up and fitted into the various Republic Regiments formed.

They were. There's actually a spreadsheet from the MWDA era that shows the breakdown. I don't have it, but I've seen it.

[Stormlion1]

They were. There's actually a spreadsheet from the MWDA era that shows the breakdown. I don't have it, but I've seen it.

I might have seen it at some point. It would make sense as Stone wanted to break up loyalty to Houses and Clans and replace it with loyalty to the Republic. Bet that Clan Wolf Warrior liked his new assignment working alongside the Capellan, Former Comstar, and FWL Mechwarriors.

[Jaim Magnus]

I have that. It shows a really good breakdown of how the units were purposefully mixed.

[Metallgewitter]

I might have seen it at some point. It would make sense as Stone wanted to break up loyalty to Houses and Clans and replace it with loyalty to the Republic. Bet that Clan Wolf Warrior liked his new assignment working alongside the Capellan, Former Comstar, and FWL Mechwarriors.

Reminds me of the opening story of FM 3085 where a RAF battle armor unit drops onto Tikonov and the commander makes his statement: "A one armed Marik, the Fedrats, the Cats and the phone company walk into a bar"

[wantec]

An interesting tidbit from ER:DA: Kal Radick was also the Galaxy Commander “over the Clan militia Clusters in Prefecture IV”, which makes me wonder if this was a rank that existed in other Prefectures.

It existed in at least Prefecture III, Kev Rosse rose to that same rank before becoming Senator for the Nova Cats in the Republic. Now I don't know how many others there might be. I'm not sure if the Clan enclaves were isolated to those two Prefectures or if they were spread around.

[Weirdo]

My personal headcanon is that a Galaxy Commander in Republic service is less a military rank than a political one(though it certainly does have weight in military circles, and was probably earned in proper Trials), with said Commander acting as a high-ranking voice in the government to represent the Clan populations within the area, and also acting as an ambassador that has a greater chance of being respected by the Clans themselves.

[tassa_kay]

My personal headcanon is that a Galaxy Commander in Republic service is less a military rank than a political one(though it certainly does have weight in military circles, and was probably earned in proper Trials), with said Commander acting as a high-ranking voice in the government to represent the Clan populations within the area, and also acting as an ambassador that has a greater chance of being respected by the Clans themselves.

I don’t know if I’d agree with that. ER:DA specifically mentions that the Galaxy Commander commands the Clan militia Clusters in their Prefectures, which suggests military more than political. I also don’t see the Republic muddying the political waters, especially with the Clanners that they already had issues with assimilating into their realm, by introducing a political rank that could cause friction with the local Prefect. Also, FWIW, Kev Rosse was elected separately to the Senate as the Nova Cat representative for Ozawa, which suggests even more to me that the Clan enclaves’ political representation went through actual political avenues.

[five_corparty]

While not listed there we know there was a collection of Hell's Horses gifted as well, and from what I can tell it wasn't a specific unit. I want to say they were in a Shrapnel story in the last handful of issues. Even without the Horse Cluster, that's 6 Galaxies-worth of Clan units that joined the Republic.

Right, about 3/4s of the surviving Horses joined with the Marik units they were supporting, the remainder of the Cluster went home (Shrapnel 14, Jinngau write-up).

[tassa_kay]

Right, about 3/4s of the surviving Horses joined with the Marik units they were supporting, the remainder of the Cluster went home (Shrapnel 14, Jinngau write-up).

I think Shrapnel got that factoid wrong or didn't word it correctly: if the "remnants of the Cluster" returned to the Horse OZ and the rest of them "joined the Mariks" (and why would they do that to begin with?), why was the 11th Mechanized Cavalry Cluster, which is the only Horses unit that they contributed in the Jihad (and this is consistent in every source), listed on the rolls as participating in the Mars portion of the final push on Terra while the FWL unit they supposedly joined fought on Terra?

It would far more sense if what the Jinggau information was actually trying to convey is that most of the Cluster simply remained with Alys Rousset-Marik's task force after Hsien, and the few that didn't want to continue on to Terra returned to their OZ. Certainly makes more sense than one of the Horses' lead formations just up and deciding to join a Great House for no reason.

[Hellraiser]

Can anyone link that Spreadsheet?

I've seen it before & IIRC the info is in one of the post jihad FMs, like FM:3085 or something.

Basically each unit was initially deployed into combat against the cappies if they were a whole unit large enough.
Otherwise each unit got merged w/ another 1+ units to form a regimental sized "Republic Auxiliaries" unit.
After each of those saw combat, then they would go for R&R and again get split up &/or merged into another "Republic Auxiliaries" unit.
Then that new unit might see combat again on a different world & again take damage & go for R&R & be split up/merged.
In the end after a few rounds of Fighting, Losses, R&R, Split/Merge, maybe get Recruits from longer previously injured that had been out for a full campaign world etc etc., then they finally ended up in some fully new amalgamation form.
And from those final Auxiliaries they then got Split/Merged to form each of the RotS line Units (Hastati, etc etc.)

I recall tracing a couple units I wanted to know about back when it first came out.
To find out where a 3067 unit ended up & to see what made up a 3090's unit.
In each case it looked like 3+ locations/units at a bare minimum.  More like 5+.

So if you looking for where something like Wolf Delta 1st Cluster ended up, it might be that those 5? stars they started out with ended up with 20% dead after a decade & the remaining 4 stars spread out across 8 different lances in 3 different regiments, etc etc.

While I doubt Lear/Stone were just intentionally ripping apart single lances/stars for the heck of it, when you account for battle damage of losing someone here & there & then replacing them w/ a single survivor from a different nation unit, you can see they probably got pretty mixed to where each regiment had at least someone in them from most nations/clans/mercs in some form or another even if it was just a small # with certain units managing to maintain something approaching 1/3 of the unit in strength through luck & skill.

[Jaim Magnus]

I've got a pdf, but it's too large to attach here.

[wantec]

...why was the 11th Mechanized Cavalry Cluster, which is the only Horses unit that they contributed in the Jihad (and this is consistent in every source), listed on the rolls as participating in the Mars portion of the final push on Terra while the FWL unit they supposedly joined fought on Terra?

This is an easy one. None of the clan units were allowed to fight on Terra at all for fear said unit might try to claim the title of ilClan. The clan-loaned forces were used on Mars, possibly on Luna or in orbit, but none on Terra itself.

[tassa_kay]

This is an easy one. None of the clan units were allowed to fight on Terra at all for fear said unit might try to claim the title of ilClan. The clan-loaned forces were used on Mars, possibly on Luna or in orbit, but none on Terra itself.

I know why they weren’t allowed on Terra. But are you suggesting that the Horses as a unit “joined the Mariks” as the Jinggau entry in Shrapnel states (and thereby ceasing to be a Clan Cluster), were separated back out again and reformed as said Cluster to fight on Mars, and then ended up in the Republic again despite not being listed as such in J:FR? Because that sounds a bit nonsensical.

Isn’t it far more likely that the writer of the Shrapnel article simply made a mistake? Why would the Horses even “join the Mariks” in the first place? And if they did end up joining the Mariks, wouldn’t that mean that they’re no longer representative of their Clan and therefore couldn’t make a claim on Terra anyway?

[five_corparty]

I know why they weren’t allowed on Terra. But are you suggesting that the Horses as a unit “joined the Mariks” as the Jinggau entry in Shrapnel states (and thereby ceasing to be a Clan Cluster), were separated back out again and reformed as said Cluster to fight on Mars, and then ended up in the Republic again despite not being listed as such in J:FR? Because that sounds a bit nonsensical.

Isn’t it far more likely that the writer of the Shrapnel article simply made a mistake? Why would the Horses even “join the Mariks” in the first place? And if they did end up joining the Mariks, wouldn’t that mean that they’re no longer representative of their Clan and therefore couldn’t make a claim on Terra anyway?

While, normally, you'd be right- the simplest reason is often the correct one- in this case, no: The blurb wasn't a mistake, it's a look ahead.

Yes, when the majority of the CHH Cluster joined with Alys, they were no longer Clan.  They were no longer banned from Terra- but they also gave up the right to claim it for their Clan.

About Mars, multiple units hit Mars, the CHH wasn't the main effort there.  No, the Clan warriors that joined the 12th Atrean didn't leave Terra and then go fight on Mars: leaving was forever.

As to the reasons why: that story will get told, hopefully sometime next year.

[tassa_kay]

While, normally, you'd be right- the simplest reason is often the correct one- in this case, no: The blurb wasn't a mistake, it's a look ahead.

How is it a look ahead? A look ahead at what?

Yes, when the majority of the CHH Cluster joined with Alys, they were no longer Clan.  They were no longer banned from Terra- but they also gave up the right to claim it for their Clan.

Now explain to me why the Horses would even do that in the first place. What reason would they have to join a Successor House, much less give up being Clan? If it were Stone, sure, because they wouldn't be the only Clan forces that "went native" in the Republic, because of his cult of personality. But the Mariks? Make it make sense.

About Mars, multiple units hit Mars, the CHH wasn't the main effort there.

Not really relevant here. And they were present, as a specific listed unit, in that particular operation.

No, the Clan warriors that joined the 12th Atrean didn't leave Terra and then go fight on Mars: leaving was forever.

I never suggested that they did. I'm suggesting that the Shrapnel article was in error and they never left their Clan to join the Mariks to begin with.

As to the reasons why: that story will get told, hopefully sometime next year.

What makes you think the story will get told?

Let's just throw together a little step-by-step here, to illustrate the absurdity of this premise:

1) The 11th MCAV fights alongside the 12th Atrean Dragoons on Hsien in January 3078 as part of Operation SCOUR, per "A Trial Most Acceptable".
2) The Horses join with the Mariks sometime after Hsien but before the Battle of Terra, with the few who didn't returning to the OZ, per the Jinggau Shrapnel article.
3) The 11th MCAV, somehow reconstituted and operating as a Clan unit again, fights on Mars alongside the other Clans while the Mariks fight on Terra during Operation SCYTHE in August 3078, per JHS: Terra.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't hold water whatsoever.

[five_corparty]

Now explain to me why the Horses would even do that in the first place. What reason would they have to join a Successor House, much less give up being Clan? If it were Stone, sure, because they wouldn't be the only Clan forces that "went native" in the Republic, because of his cult of personality. But the Mariks? Make it make sense.

Sorry, I can't right now- that's literally the plot. I just wanted to clarify that there were no mistakes made by the writer (me), the editor, or the factchecking team.  I can't promise next year, but the sequel is something I've thought about for a number of years and am penciling in on my checklist to work on early next year (pending getting other assignments, of course).

[tassa_kay]

Sorry, I can't right now- that's literally the plot. I just wanted to clarify that there were no mistakes made by the writer (me), the editor, or the factchecking team.  I can't promise next year, but the sequel is something I've thought about for a number of years and am penciling in on my checklist to work on early next year (pending getting other assignments, of course).

Well, good luck justifying why one of the Horses' most prestigious units would ditch their Clan and join a Successor State's military, despite canon all but explicitly stating that this never happened. Certainly wouldn't be the first thing the fact-checkers missed.

That said... you know I enjoyed the hell out of "A Trial Most Acceptable", so by all means, please serve me some crow. :)

[five_corparty]

:-)

I will do my best! :-)

[CJC070]

Well, good luck justifying why one of the Horses' most prestigious units would ditch their Clan and join a Successor State's military, despite canon all but explicitly stating that this never happened. Certainly wouldn't be the first thing the fact-checkers missed.

That said... you know I enjoyed the hell out of "A Trial Most Acceptable", so by all means, please serve me some crow. :)

I got the impression the Clans and Mariks were working along side and the main character was a liaison.  I thought them working together was more akin to Archer Avengers and Wolf-in-Exile during Operation Audacity.  Both had a common enemy but had to avoid stepping on toes (especially Clan toes).