Author Topic: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?  (Read 11455 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #60 on: 10 December 2019, 09:53:40 »
That doesn't change the fact that a Battletech force never contains any decision makers. It is composed solely of game pieces. As such, we must describe units by their effect in the game, not by any human-specific terms like 'leadership'.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #61 on: 10 December 2019, 10:02:08 »
That doesn't change the fact that a Battletech force never contains any decision makers. It is composed solely of game pieces. As such, we must describe units by their effect in the game, not by any human-specific terms like 'leadership'.

Exactly. Putting the 'commander' in the HQ or an assault 'Mech doesn't change the ability of your force to operate, the 'commander' isn't distracted by piloting a combat unit. In one instance you increase your vulnerability to losing a bonus from intense combat versus a fast VTOL or hidden unit wiping out the mobile HQ in one quick strike.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #62 on: 10 December 2019, 12:21:48 »
Exactly. Putting the 'commander' in the HQ or an assault 'Mech doesn't change the ability of your force to operate, the 'commander' isn't distracted by piloting a combat unit. In one instance you increase your vulnerability to losing a bonus from intense combat versus a fast VTOL or hidden unit wiping out the mobile HQ in one quick strike.

There's arguments in terms of gameplay for either direction, consider the difference between the King in chess, and a Queen.  Arguably, the fact that you have to both protect your king in chess (and it's a piece with SEVERE vulnerability) and can lose that piece to just such an equivalent event (look up: Fool's Mate) doesn't make chess less fun to play, or less tactical, while stiking your 'commander' in the best 'mech w/best guns and gunnery certainly works better for a checkers analogy.

They're both games good enough to have made it through the centuries, but they reflect VERY different sorts of warfare.  Checkers is all about annihilation, the core victory condition being only the complete destruction of all opposing forces, while Chess has a victory condition that can concievably leave the bulk of the opposing force intact, reflecting a different strategic paradigm.

Putting that bonus in a vehicle with terrible manueverability, crap armor, and almost no guns reflects a more chess-like scenario-the owner has to both defend the command post, AND press the attack.  Putting that capability into the most obscenely overpowered 'mech on a side, otoh, reflects more of a checkers scenario, because while that piece may be more powerful than the others, it's still just a piece, and not necessary to the successful achievement of victory.  After all, it's just another piece, just another anonymous resource.

NOT having to protect any specific asset on the board leads to a play that is all attack, all the time-which is certainly favored by some players, and could be confusing when those players are used to 'last man standing', as opposed to more sophisticated and complicated objectives.

"Last man standing" scenarios are a lot more common in the wild, because they're very visceral, but they're also the scenarios most likely to devolve into 'standing at medium range rolling die'.  Those types of games often don't need nearly as much prep as people put into them, and certainly don't have a lot of room for units that aren't some combination of the best armor/firepower (two dimensions) with moderate mobility to get to that medium range RNG contest.

Put stakes on that, though-forced retreat, initiative bonuses, initiative penalties, and it tends to shift the tenor of the table hard, and makes units you tend to overlook a LOT more useful.

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Col Toda

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #63 on: 08 January 2020, 07:12:08 »
From what I understand  all a mobile HQ provides in the game is a +1 or +2 initiative  bonus and remote  sensor monitoring . Depending  on ERA and resources likely the best option.  I mentioned  the command console earlier  as it too provides a +2 initiative  bonus and the ability  to monitor  some remote sensors  . The mobile HQ requires  1 crew per ton of communication equipment  requiring  7 tons to get the +2 . The Command Console  just provides the the in game bonus with less crew and tonnage .

So yes the bonus is nice and worth it  . But no the mobile HQ  is not the best means of getting it

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #64 on: 08 January 2020, 13:16:06 »
Your also putting your Init bonus at a unit that is easier to shoot at, and as part of your combat power (aka Cyclops or Battlemaster) SHOULD be firing.  The nice thing about the Mobile HQ is that someone is not tempted to put it out there to shoot and be shot at by the enemy.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #65 on: 08 January 2020, 13:53:54 »
I see a command console as a supplement to the mobile HQ, not a replacement.  There's no way a single person in a cockpit can mediate the communications of a half-dozen companies while directing a battle.  That's where all the operators in the mobile HQ come in.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #66 on: 08 January 2020, 16:45:40 »
I have a corollary question: assuming you're using an HQ unit (be it standard or Daimyo), what are the other three units you'd put in its headquarters lance?


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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #67 on: 08 January 2020, 17:36:42 »
Well . . . extrapolating from IRL, it would be something like a supply truck, repair vehicle, and some sort of a guard unit.  Another vehicle that can cover some AA & ground support- Bulldog (AC), Partisan AA Vehicle (50t, wheeled), Vedettes, Scorpions, Zorya . . . basically anything with a turret and smaller AC that can load AA ammo.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #68 on: 12 January 2020, 00:27:58 »
Something with similar speed to the HQ & a better motive type.


So for the traditional Wheeled 6/9? model from TRO3026...


Nothing slower than 4/6 or faster than 10/15.

Tracked or Hover/Vtols.



Manticore or Vedette
Heavy Hover APC w/ Motorized Platoon for security  OR   Karnov UH w/ Jump Platoon for security   OR   Maxim w/  Foot Platoon for security
Condor,  Drillson,  or Pegasus  Hovertanks.

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #69 on: 12 January 2020, 00:32:18 »
Why not faster than 10/15?  ???

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #70 on: 12 January 2020, 00:38:35 »
I guess you can,  my point was just stuff that doesn't slow the MHQ down nor so fast it doesn't abandon it.

And really, faster than 10/15 your basically just a recon unit & I don't really need Recon attached to my command Platoon.

Also why I didn't say anything like "Repair/Engineering/Supply"

Those will all have their own sub-units.

My command platoon should be 3 other units that can protect & compliment my Mobile HQ w/o also being more useful on the line  (Like a trio of Awesomes)

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #71 on: 12 January 2020, 04:35:15 »
I suppose that makes sense.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #72 on: 12 January 2020, 18:35:15 »
The appropriate amount of communications gear for a battalion is 3 tons (+1 initiative), 4 if they want to talk to satellites.  Seven tons and up (for +2 initiative, and normally what a Mobile HQ has) is for higher echelons.  The fact Combat Vehicles (and 'Mechs) get one ton "free" as part of their control gear/cockpit makes this very easy to achieve.

Four is required to talk to your own satellites, if one is available.  Five tons is the minimum to hack other satellites.  Technically a mech could use it's engine and comm suite to do this, but only at the cost of being immobilized to get the uplink.  A Mobile HQ, as long as it hasn't suffered a stabilizer crit, can do this on the move.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #73 on: 14 January 2020, 09:50:34 »
Honestly, I had rather pick an Atlas/Cyclopse and put a Command Console on it, if I desperately need for an uplink for the satelite as well as initiative bonus. I don't think that you need to connect with the satelite directly while face to face the enemy either.

After all, Mobile HQ would be required for fluffwise, but it must not on the battlefield or it is already something wrong.

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #74 on: 14 January 2020, 10:53:52 »
Honestly, I had rather pick an Atlas/Cyclopse and put a Command Console on it, if I desperately need for an uplink for the satelite as well as initiative bonus. I don't think that you need to connect with the satelite directly while face to face the enemy either.

After all, Mobile HQ would be required for fluffwise, but it must not on the battlefield or it is already something wrong.

Depends on your battlefield . . . for things like this, I typically use MM and at least 3 km x 3 km maps.  And if one side has a advantage I prefer it to be present on the map so it can be countered as a option- like artillery & HQs.  Having a battle line that must be maintained to prevent light cav wrecking the rear areas is a good thing IMO, but then again with MM I play more 'wargame' style.
Colt Ward
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #75 on: 14 January 2020, 11:02:29 »
Well, if you want to play a battalion or regiment level of theater, then it must be on the table. But I don't think that it is eligible on the platoon(lance) to company level usually.

Weirdo

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #76 on: 14 January 2020, 12:36:38 »
I've had no issues using a Mobile HQ on the map in smaller games. Just need to keep it behind cover or on the move, as the situation demands.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #77 on: 21 January 2020, 16:04:00 »
i've used shielding movement to good effect with units like the mhq

otherwise use cover as much as possible

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #78 on: 21 January 2020, 16:35:59 »
Four is required to talk to your own satellites, if one is available.  Five tons is the minimum to hack other satellites.  Technically a mech could use it's engine and comm suite to do this, but only at the cost of being immobilized to get the uplink.  A Mobile HQ, as long as it hasn't suffered a stabilizer crit, can do this on the move.
  I've put all of those things on a Mule DS with maximum armor and PPC/Arrow IV batteries. It's a poor man's warship/planetary command post. I have never lost one but my players overestimated its capabilities trying to assault a very heavily defended spaceport...they wound up as POWs, and lost a company's worth of Clan omnis to the Capellans, which made all their contract renegotiations with their unit very entertaining, as they had to repay their employer for their losses and ransoms. BTW, using DSs as attack vessels against ground targets is a silly Wolf's Dragoons stunt that doesn't play out on tabletop well...although the players in my campaign used it to destroy a company of infantry holed up in a small town. The town, along with its 200 or so civilians, and the rebel Lyran infantry, was vaporized under the Mule's drive plumes. Needless to say, their Lyran employers were not pleased.

  A mobile HQ is very useful in a battle, but won't make players any smarter...

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #79 on: 21 January 2020, 19:51:54 »
The first rule of WMD is you NEVER use them "danger close"...  ::)

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #80 on: 21 January 2020, 20:17:32 »
The first rule of WMD is you NEVER use them "danger close"...  ::)

danger close just 'upgraded' to heroic sacrifice or war crime depending on your side of the battle.

Mobile HQ seems to be a good unit for your less well equipped planetary militias (the op-for)
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #81 on: 21 January 2020, 20:39:54 »
Good point, it would be something you might expect out of a green unit to overcome their lack of experience.
Colt Ward
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #82 on: 21 January 2020, 20:53:12 »
The really cool thing is that you can cram 3 tons (equivalent) into a 10-ton APC.  They could be anywhere!  ^-^

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #83 on: 21 January 2020, 22:07:52 »
or everywhere!
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #84 on: 21 January 2020, 22:12:35 »
The really cool thing is that you can cram 3 tons (equivalent) into a 10-ton APC.  They could be anywhere!  ^-^

APCs like the M113 have always been a favorite for all sorts of command-level platforms, from mobile command centers to ELINT and EW support.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #85 on: 22 January 2020, 07:35:25 »
The first rule of WMD is you NEVER use them "danger close"...  ::)

You say that now, but there is nothing funnier than taking out your own forces with danger-close orbital fire.

I got more of them with that shot than I did of mine, so it was all good.
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #86 on: 22 January 2020, 10:14:38 »
The one time I used a nuke, the primary blast radius ended adjacent to the base I was defending. 8)
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #87 on: 22 January 2020, 10:29:16 »
The one time I used a nuke, the primary blast radius ended adjacent to the base I was defending. 8)

That's the goldilocks zone for WMDs
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #88 on: 22 January 2020, 16:31:18 »
The one time I used a nuke, the primary blast radius ended adjacent to the base I was defending. 8)
That's one FAC who'll never do THAT again...  ^-^

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #89 on: 22 January 2020, 23:33:18 »
  I've put all of those things on a Mule DS with maximum armor and PPC/Arrow IV batteries. It's a poor man's warship/planetary command post. I have never lost one but my players overestimated its capabilities trying to assault a very heavily defended spaceport...they wound up as POWs, and lost a company's worth of Clan omnis to the Capellans, which made all their contract renegotiations with their unit very entertaining, as they had to repay their employer for their losses and ransoms. BTW, using DSs as attack vessels against ground targets is a silly Wolf's Dragoons stunt that doesn't play out on tabletop well...although the players in my campaign used it to destroy a company of infantry holed up in a small town. The town, along with its 200 or so civilians, and the rebel Lyran infantry, was vaporized under the Mule's drive plumes. Needless to say, their Lyran employers were not pleased.

  A mobile HQ is very useful in a battle, but won't make players any smarter...

wait, these are the SAME Lyrans who invented and put into production the Firedrake Heavy Needler, a weapon with pistol ranges, that is useless against armor and only good for slaughtering civilians and burning their houses down? I mean, we're talking about a weapon developed during the invasion era, with 30% of the Commonwealth occupied by power-armor-wearing lunatics, and the LAAF buys a weapon that is literally 'Villain decay' in a package that requires a tripod or battlesuit to use or move.

which, incidentally, likely requires more expensive cleanup than, say, a flamer or machine-gun, inflicts horrid wounds (only on unarmored flesh) and lights everything else on fire.

« Last Edit: 22 January 2020, 23:47:11 by Cannonshop »
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