Author Topic: Some BattleTech History - The Day the Music Died - When the Seen Became Unseen (Read 3882 times)

bpardoe870 · « **on:** 18 March 2018, 10:00:47 »

Enjoy!

https://blainepardoe.wordpress.com/2018/03/18/the-day-the-music-died-when-the-classic-mechs-became-unseen/

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

ColBosch · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 March 2018, 10:21:17 »

The Galleon Light Tank is a copy of a design from an anime called "Crusher Joe," the same source as the Locust and Samurai aerospace fighter.

Mech42ace · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 March 2018, 11:15:53 »

Very interesting read, thanks for sharing! I've always wondered what impact this had on the writers at the time.

bpardoe870 · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 March 2018, 14:01:45 »

Not familiar with Joe Crusher. This is related to Robotech - per the reference on page #2

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

SteelRaven · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 March 2018, 14:15:55 »

Interesting parallel between the 'Do not use' and 'use these' list I haven't really thought about.

Thank you for sharing.

Horseman · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 March 2018, 14:25:05 »

Quote from: bpardoe870 on 18 March 2018, 14:01:45

Not familiar with Joe Crusher. This is related to Robotech - per the reference on page #2
Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

And the point is the incongruence between that memo and known (and verifiable) facts. Locust, Griffin, Scorpion, Goliath, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster and Galleon did not come from Macross (=Robotech), but two other anime series unrelated to the dispute between FASA and Harmony Gold.
The only thing they had in common was that - as far as we know - FASA licensed all of them from Twentieth Century imports.

It raises some questions as to what was the actual intent of that internal memo:
1. Ban designs from Macross (which it purports to do) OR
2. Ban all designs licensed through Twentieth Century Imports (which it actually does)

SteelRaven · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 March 2018, 14:42:09 »

The memo seems to have been 'In House Designs Only' declaration, listing all those designs under Robotech was probably done out of simplistic consider the point of the memo was simply 'do not use.'

See, this is why no one shares stuff with us fans anymore. We mash our teeth over everything.

ColBosch · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 March 2018, 14:50:15 »

Yeah, the memo clearly lists non-Macross images under "RoboTech" (sic). They should've labelled the first column on the second page "anime."

Cache · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 March 2018, 15:54:40 »

This gives me the impression that the VP of FASA did not fully understand the situation, or origin of those designs, at the time. Which explains the confusion over the next several years where the Victor Musical Industries images (3055 Clan 'Mechs and Comstar sourcebook 'Mechs) finally ended up on the Unseen list.

Frabby · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 March 2018, 16:59:49 »

All water under the bridge now.
But still an interesting peek behind the curtain. Thanks Mr. Pardoe!

I am Belch II · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 March 2018, 18:14:07 »

I like some of the proxy replacements.

bpardoe870 · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 March 2018, 18:45:19 »

After all of these years, I think the die-hard fans love to see these little tid-bits.

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

klarg1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 March 2018, 18:46:57 »

Quote from: bpardoe870 on 18 March 2018, 18:45:19

After all of these years, I think the die-hard fans love to see these little tid-bits.

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

I can stop any time I want. I swear!

*re-reads the memo*

bpardoe870 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 March 2018, 19:11:31 »

Two reasons to follow my blog because:
1. I have some more stuff I am going to release that is awesome.
2. April 1 is approaching and it is the best way to get my annual April Fool's Day BattleTech humor. Honestly, it was hard to top last year's Clan Tin Sloth, but I think I pulled it off again.

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

pensiveswetness · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 March 2018, 20:24:56 »

...1995... Five years in and I was in my 1st year being stationed at NAS Jacksonville, Fla. I was not quite yet moved off-base. I was TAD to BPO-something (Waxing floors & taking out trash for Admin at Bldg. 1000)... and right before Jessica. I had not even started playing Battletech yet (that was next year, i think)... anyway, interesting read, sir. :D actually I'm shocked that i remember these details...

Syzyx · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 March 2018, 20:31:59 »

I am not sure the Robotech mentioned in the memo is the same as the TV series. Revell had a line called Robotech as well and they used all of the unseen. I believe they also had their rights through 20th Century Imports.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_Defenders

ColBosch · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 March 2018, 22:37:01 »

Quote from: Syzyx on 18 March 2018, 20:31:59

I am not sure the Robotech mentioned in the memo is the same as the TV series. Revell had a line called Robotech as well and they used all of the unseen. I believe they also had their rights through 20th Century Imports.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_Defenders

Harmony Gold bought the name "Robotech" from Revell when they licensed the rights to Macross from Tatsunoko. This is kind of a Big Deal, as Blaine's memo, here, and the thread "TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold" will attest.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 March 2018, 22:45:42 »

Quote from: bpardoe870 on 18 March 2018, 19:11:31

Two reasons to follow my blog because:
1. I have some more stuff I am going to release that is awesome.
2. April 1 is approaching and it is the best way to get my annual April Fool's Day BattleTech humor. Honestly, it was hard to top last year's Clan Tin Sloth, but I think I pulled it off again.

Blaine "Buck" Pardoe

You may have topped Clan Tin Sloth, but I daresay you'll never top Clan Nova Shart.

Feenix74 · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 March 2018, 22:58:58 »

Thank you sharing a bit of history and an insight into the inner workings of the "Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration".

Kidd · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 March 2018, 23:02:19 »

Interesting.

The 2nd/middle arrow makes me somewhat uncomfortable though :D

Deadborder · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 March 2018, 23:32:03 »

Kind of surprised they didn't suggest the Cataplut as a replacement for the Archer, as it became the de facto heavy fire 'mech for years.

Also interesting that the Valkyrie isn't on the list at this point, but would later become unseen

Thank you for sharing this. It's a fascinating look into a window of the franchise's history

StoneRhino · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 March 2018, 05:09:38 »

I miss 3055. I couldn't care less about the 3025 unseens, although I wish I had some original LAMs. :-\

mbear · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 March 2018, 06:19:44 »

Quote from: Tai Dai Cultist on 18 March 2018, 22:45:42

You may have topped Clan Tin Sloth, but I daresay you'll never top Clan Nova Shart.

IMHO, there's nothing better than the "Trial of Keepsies".

ColBosch · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 March 2018, 07:28:37 »

Quote from: StoneRhino on 21 March 2018, 05:09:38

I miss 3055. I couldn't care less about the 3025 unseens, although I wish I had some original LAMs. :-\

Literally the only Unseen I have left is a Crescent Hawks Phoenix Hawk. I just couldn't bear to part with it, even as I sold off all my other Unseen.

pensiveswetness · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 March 2018, 09:37:50 »

Quote from: Deadborder on 18 March 2018, 23:32:03

Kind of surprised they didn't suggest the Cataplut as a replacement for the Archer, as it became the de facto heavy fire 'mech for years.

Also interesting that the Valkyrie isn't on the list at this point, but would later become unseen

Thank you for sharing this. It's a fascinating look into a window of the franchise's history

i always wondered why the original SLDF designs that replaced the TRO 3025 Unseen entries were not used to replace the unseen images? aka Project Phoenix before the idea even existed?

klarg1 · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 March 2018, 10:03:26 »

Quote from: ColBosch on 18 March 2018, 22:37:01

Harmony Gold bought the name "Robotech" from Revell when they licensed the rights to Macross from Tatsunoko. This is kind of a Big Deal, as Blaine's memo, here, and the thread "TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold" will attest.

Really? I missed that transaction. That's an interesting wrinkle.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 March 2018, 12:46:06 »

Quote from: pensiveswetness on 21 March 2018, 09:37:50

i always wondered why the original SLDF designs that replaced the TRO 3025 Unseen entries were not used to replace the unseen images? aka Project Phoenix before the idea even existed?

Because it was still very easy to get a older out of print book in the 90's. When TRO: 3050 Revised hit the store shelves, my friends could still find the original TRO 3050 at Barns and Noble and I could still find TRO: 3055 at the local game store. It wasn't until later the out of print copies became a rare find and newer players had to find out second hand about the designs but by that time, FASA was trying to moved on.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 March 2018, 19:36:26 »

Quote from: klarg1 on 21 March 2018, 10:03:26

Really? I missed that transaction. That's an interesting wrinkle.

It gets even weirder when you realize the line not only uses Macross designs...but Dougram and Orguss as well; both anime series provided the very same 'Mechs in the models to Battletech as well. And Robotech Defenders, the comic book and model kit line from Revell, predates the Robotech cartoon, which makes me wonder just how many times the rights were sold/licensed from TCI...it gets really squiggly.

Case in point:

And of course...

Even more confusingly, Macek and company appeared to keep the logo and font that Revell developed for their model kit line. I've seen river mud clearer than this all is...

Tymers Realm · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 March 2018, 19:49:20 »

Quote from: Syzyx on 18 March 2018, 20:31:59

I am not sure the Robotech mentioned in the memo is the same as the TV series. Revell had a line called Robotech as well and they used all of the unseen. I believe they also had their rights through 20th Century Imports.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech_Defenders

And trust me the comic was interesting. Hell, I'm surprised I still have both issues in reasonably good condition.

SCC · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 March 2018, 21:28:16 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 21 March 2018, 19:36:26

Even more confusingly, Macek and company appeared to keep the logo and font that Revell developed for their model kit line. I've seen river mud clearer than this all is...

I can't see a logo on you images, but I think the logos used in Robotech were from the corresponding anime series