Talk to me about: Protomechs (BT and AS)

[nova_dew]

Soo I am interested in the little things, but as a Bears player mostly, I have no experience with them, and anything on the forum is 11 years old now, what are they like in BT and in AS?

[AlphaMirage]

Well the rules haven't really changed since then and no new ones have been introduced. Protomechs can be nasty little pack hunters particularly if they are in a city or restricted environment where they can easily take cover from their bigger foes and outmaneuver them in order to get that all important rear shot. They are also good for objective play as the active probe equipped ones are very effective scouts compared to their proper Battlemech cousins.

[Natasha Kerensky]

GreekFire has you covered for BT play:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomechs-a-comprehensive-guide-part-1-force-selection/msg990673/#msg990673

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomechs-a-comprehensive-guide-part-2-tactics/

He also did a ProtoMech of the Week article on every (or nearly every) canon design.  Here’s a few to start:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomech-of-the-week-boggart/msg1058091/#msg1058091

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomech-of-the-week-minotaurs-of-every-flavor/msg1011670/#msg1011670

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomech-of-the-week-procyon-and-procyon-(quad)/msg1033158/#msg1033158

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomechs-of-the-week-3-ton-special/msg1000239/#msg1000239

[Colt Ward]

One of the biggest things to realize is the Clans use protos (or those that do) in many of the same tactical roles the Inner Sphere would use light/med vehicles to fill.  The other is to realize is that while they may look like mechs they are not as robust.

For some tactical situations, the protomech is going to excel.  Protos are one of the best units to operate in a city . . . they get movement like infantry- which means buildings do not obstruct them in movement like other types.  But most are more mobile than BA, which get 2-3 MPs with a few at 4 MP, when Protos range from 2/3 to 7/11 depending on size and role.

Since the previous Proto discussions were linked, I would point out the IC/story implications.  The Protomech's highwater mark for deployment is 3067 IMO, where it is fielded by the Hell's Horses, Snow Ravens, Warden Wolves, the dying Jade Falcon program, and either the Sharks built them or acted like middlemen for the Inner Sphere Clans.  I cannot remember if the Cats had Protos in FMU or not.  The Scorpions, with a Aeropilot Khan, had established a Proto program and seemed to be on track to embrace them- the Wars of Reaving ended that it seems.  Among the Home Clans the Blood Spirits had a big program, I would think the Cobras fielded them, and I cannot remember if the Adders or Mandrills used them.  I do not think the Coyotes or Hellions did.

As far as acceptance in Clan society, the current period could be said for them to be the most accepted- in the Clans that use them.  The Ravens have a Star Colonel who is the first proto-warrior to win a Bloodname in the 3130s or 3140s- check the Hippogrif entry.  We had a recent story in Shrapnel about a Horses' cluster involved in Operation Scour, their Proto trinary was VERY effective as part of their battle against a regiment+ of Capellans . . . which is ironic considering the old 3050 standard was a Invading Clan cluster could take a IS mech regiment.  The force parity was considered to shift closer to balanced in the 3060s . . . to be fair, Horse clusters are really overstrength compared to other Clans.  The one in the story was however weaker in mechs and also not even top of the line mechs! (The Khan seemed to be limiting what equipment the IS would be exposed to or could possibly salvage.)

The story really used Proto's strategic possibilities . . . they were sent out to recon the Capellan regiment before the Horse commander even contacted the Cappies.  The protos positioned to strike the repair facilities and ammo dump of the advancing Cappies and then prepared further strikes behind the lines as well as hampering their attempt to retreat in good order.

[pokefan548]

Mhm. For the most part, if I had to describe Protos' doctrinal use by most Clans (and somewhat mechanically as well), it would be "Clan-approved combat vehicles". They're a way to get lots of cheap units on the field, which is important for the Clans in lower-BV matches. As stated, they also do well in a strategic role, since sparing a few light Protos for recon duty is a lot easier than tapping an Omni for the same role.

The Horses are an interesting case of making extensive use of both combat vehicles and Protos, and tend to use them in roles that combat vehicles have difficulty performing (jumping/mountaineering, close-quarters combat, etc). From memory, they're also one of the only Inner Sphere Clans still making significant use of the ProtoMech as of ilClan.

The Society is interesting in that the majority of its main combat forces are ProtoMechs, having ready access to EI implants and a long line of bitter washouts eager to get back in the fight (plus some, uh, "volunteers" from the local population), counterbalanced by a limited ability to produce full-on 'Mechs. The Society also had the sneaky tactic of putting their commanders in ProtoMechs, particularly the Sprite; after all, if a Clan warrior sees a massive Osteon assault 'Mech raining down fire, and a small but durable Sprite ProtoMech plinking away with some missiles or a single ER Large Laser from the back line, which do you think they'll assume is the force commander? Now, I personally question the notion of giving your best commanders EI in the long run, but then the Society made a lot of poor decisions.

Finally, we know that the Word of Blake managed to make use of ProtoMechs, adapting a VDNI connector (albeit one that requires... sacrifices on the part of the pilot) and deploying at least a few to Necromo. Unfortunately, we don't really know how they were used beyond the broadest sense, since the only canon examples I'm aware of... weren't exactly a rational, cohesive fighting force by the time they were encountered. It's entirely possible that not enough examples existed for the Word to really effectively devise their own doctrine in the first place, to be honest.

[idea weenie]

One thing to exploit is that for the same performance the Protomech fusion reactors are really cheap compared to Battlearmor batteries, and lighter too.

Example is a 2-ton BA moving ground speed 2, vs a 2-ton Protomech moving ground speed 2

Battlearmor (from Tech Manual starting from p160):
Assuming walking speed 2, the battery adds 160 kg in mass
p281 says the cost is 25,000 C-Bills per ground movement point, so 50,000 C-Bills total
No Final Cost Multiplier from p285, as I am only comparing 1 engine to 1 engine


Protomech (from Tech Manual starting page 80):
Assuming walking speed 2 and Running speed 3, for a 2-ton Protomech the engine rating is 6, meaning it is 150 kg in mass (per TechManual p214 the lightest Protomech engine can be 100 kg)
Protomech components that would apply (for costs on page 279)
Musculature: 4000 C-Bills final
Actuators: 1800 C-Bills final
Engine: 800 C-Bills final (rating 6, Unit mass 2 tons)
Subtotal: 6600 C-Bills
Final cost multiplier (p285): 1.02
Total cost: 6732 C-Bills


Summary:

Unit Type	Engine Mass	Engine cost	Notes
Battlearmor	160 kg	50,000 C-Bills	Only the costs for Motive Systems
Protomech	150 kg	6,732 C-Bills	Cost includes Musculature, all arm and leg sets of Actuators, and the Fusion Engine

[RevenVrake]

If you're playing by BV, then Protos make a nice little addition to your forces to use up that leftover BV you might have instead of Elementals or other BA. Often Protos have at least better movement than the Elemental (the most common 'slow' Proto I find, the Minotaur at 3/5/3) and it packs a wicked punch. So the thought of treating them like light vehicles is a good one. And they can be surprisingly tough too.

Protomechs get a 'near miss' rule. If you roll a (I think) 3 or an 11 on the hit chart it just goes flying by the proto and it takes no damage. Now I know that's not much on 2d6 but it can take someone by surprise when their big shot to kill a proto just whiffs despite their dice.

[pokefan548]

Yeah. You really can't rely on near-misses, but an 11% chance to just delete an AC/20 shot that would have otherwise destroyed you is always fun.

[Fallen_Raven]

Protomechs operate as a Point of 5 models, but they don't have to share a hex. The combination of low BV and spread movement give you a rare chance at controlling positioning for the perpetually outnumbered Clans. They can also flank an opponent while maintaining Zellbrigen, which makes for some interesting tactical opportunities if you get the chance.

[Demiurge]

I don't like protomechs, but I'll try to be even-handed.

Pros:

-Protomechs are good city units because they can move through buildings and don't skid.  Their movement rules in cities are much more favorable than battlemechs, but not as good as BA.  They usually have more movement points than BA though, so it's about even.

-Protomechs, unlike BA, can target ASFs, so the ones armed with LRMs can make a quirky distributed flak battery that's very hard to take out in one swing.

-Heavier protomechs have fewer hit locations than light mechs, so the armor isn't spread as thin.

Cons:

-They die really easily.  Inferno gel, burning hexes, weapons that do large amounts of damage to a single location, weapons that do a moderate amount of damage to a single location but which you have lots of, basically everything kills them fairly efficiently.

-The light ones die really easily because they have thin armor spread out over multiple hit locations.  Heavy and assault BA are usually more survivable.



As for why I don't like them:

Protomechs have far and away the worst construction rules of any unit in the game.  Mechs, vehicles, ASFs, and BA have a weight/speed/free tonnage efficiency curve that guarantees a place for lighter designs as well as heavier ones.  Not so protomechs; the light ones are just trash and the heavy ones are just better.  Protomechs have incredibly constrained construction rules.  Even with the addition of the ultra-heavy classes (which further eclipse the lighter ones), quads and WiG designs, there are just far fewer construction options than there are for BA, let alone mechs or vehicles.  It's like the people writing the rules went out of their way to come up with a construction rules set that's fiddly, boring, and reducible to an incredibly small number of optimized choices.  The art for most of them is just goofy.  In-universe about half the factions that start using the things decide that they're stupid and drop them, and constantly dog on how bad they are.

TPTB could retcon them out of existence tomorrow and there wouldn't be too much upset.  As they exist, they add very little to the game or universe.

[Colt Ward]

-Protomechs are good city units because they can move through buildings and don't skid.  Their movement rules in cities are much more favorable than battlemechs, but not as good as BA.  They usually have more movement points than BA though, so it's about even.

Last I checked they move through urban just like BA & Infantry. The greater MPs means they are superior because they can move through/past more buildings.

Protomechs suffer from being one of the last things created by FASA and then abandoned by TPTB that came after (see Quad-V for that same problem)when they decided the Clans really do work with vehicles.  IF the Clans had never been given any vehicles besides SP artillery, VTOLs, and APCs then they would have fit in better and had more opportunities.

[Demiurge]

Last I checked they move through urban just like BA & Infantry. The greater MPs means they are superior because they can move through/past more buildings.

Protomechs suffer from being one of the last things created by FASA and then abandoned by TPTB that came after (see Quad-V for that same problem)when they decided the Clans really do work with vehicles.  IF the Clans had never been given any vehicles besides SP artillery, VTOLs, and APCs then they would have fit in better and had more opportunities.

I should have been more specific.  Protomechs do indeed move through buildings just like infantry and BA, and they cannot skid.  However, unlike BA, protomechs have weapons arcs and facings, and don't get free direction changes when turning.  BA just pay for number of hexes moved total, Protomechs have to budget for turning, same as mechs, so each MP of movement on a protomech doesn't get you as much as on a BA.  The difference becomes very noticeable with designs like the Buraq.

[grimlock1]

Finally, we know that the Word of Blake managed to make use of ProtoMechs, adapting a VDNI connector (albeit one that requires... sacrifices on the part of the pilot) and deploying at least a few to Necromo. Unfortunately, we don't really know how they were used beyond the broadest sense, since the only canon examples I'm aware of... weren't exactly a rational, cohesive fighting force by the time they were encountered. It's entirely possible that not enough examples existed for the Word to really effectively devise their own doctrine in the first place, to be honest.

One thing I've never gotten a clear answer on WoB proto drivers is could they have removable limbs.  AToW mentions prosthetics that a tech can just unbolt and disconnect.

[pokefan548]

One thing I've never gotten a clear answer on WoB proto drivers is could they have removable limbs.  AToW mentions prosthetics that a tech can just unbolt and disconnect.

To my knowledge, there is nothing forbidding them from doing so other than the availability of such limbs and the pilot's own tolerance for implants.

[glitterboy2098]

to be honest the only reason the WoB even bothered with removable prosthetic limbs is so they wouldn't have to worry about finding pilots small enough to fit. technology wise once they got the VDNI to EI  adaptor hardware and software done, their choice of pilots was basically "anyone who fit and could accept VDNI."
that they chose to select quadrapalegics for the job was likely just a case of using available manpower resources, since the war at that time was going to be generating more than its share of crippled troops.
had the experimentation progressed to the point of the MD's building their own protomech clones, who knows if they'd have retained the Aerospace phenotype optimized cockpits, or designed them to fit more typical human sized pilots.

as it is i suspect that the WoB protomech project was a contributing factor in the development of the Gestalt and the Interface Cockpit.

[HABeas2]

One thing I've never gotten a clear answer on WoB proto drivers is could they have removable limbs.  AToW mentions prosthetics that a tech can just unbolt and disconnect.

The implication I intended was that, since they were quadriplegic in order to fit in and plug into a ProtoMech control system, they basically wore the ProtoMech as one big detachable prosthetic. A set of "out of cockpit" limbs was always envisioned there; they were never meant to be plugged in every hour of the local day, and every day of the local week.

They just ended up that way, thanks to circumstances.

- Herb

[grimlock1]

The implication I intended was that, since they were quadriplegic in order to fit in and plug into a ProtoMech control system, they basically wore the ProtoMech as one big detachable prosthetic. A set of "out of cockpit" limbs was always envisioned there; they were never meant to be plugged in every hour of the local day, and every day of the local week.

They just ended up that way, thanks to circumstances.

- Herb

Thanks. 
Oh, and we seem to be saying "quadriplegic."  Don't we mean quadruple amputee?

[HABeas2]

Thanks. 
Oh, and we seem to be saying "quadriplegic."  Don't we mean quadruple amputee?

Yeah, sorry. Quadruple amputee. Basically, they're just torso, head, and stumps.

- Herb

[ANS Kamas P81]

Yeah, sorry. Quadruple amputee. Basically, they're just torso, head, and stumps.

- Herb

Anakin Skywalker, Protomech Pilot.

[Elmoth]

Anakin Skywalker, Protomech Pilot.

Cannot unsee that now....

[grimlock1]

Yeah, sorry. Quadruple amputee. Basically, they're just torso, head, and stumps.

- Herb

Kinda like XCOM:EW's MEC Troopers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdBUFVftFY

Anakin Skywalker, Protomech Pilot.

Probably similar levels of sanity and self control...