Author Topic: Ideal War  (Read 6530 times)

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Ideal War
« on: 08 September 2011, 13:51:33 »
So, I finished Ideal War today.

Overall, it was better than I expected, and was quite good until the last two chapters. The last two chapters was worse, because they did seem too forced.

I have seen complaints that this book has a tone that does not really fit into the Battletech universe. Well, that might have been true when it came out, but it fits all too well nowadays. I would call this book the only Jihad era novel. Since it fits that era with its tone, and since it starts the storyline that ends during the Jihad. - "How will this end?" - "In fire."

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

StoneGiant

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
  • CLAN WIND SHRIMP
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #1 on: 13 September 2011, 02:36:05 »
I seem to remember the beginning being kind of slow, but the rest of the book was pretty good.

Plus that cover art is SCHWEET!  :D
555th Prawn Grenadiers, Tempura Galaxy, Scampi Cluster, Gumbo Super Nova, Risotto Trinary, Creole Star.

Atlas3060

  • ugh this guy again
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9408
  • Just some rando
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #2 on: 13 September 2011, 17:16:49 »
First book I have read in Battletech that just made me run through it quickly.
Later after the Jihad I went back to it and began to really enjoy it if only slightly more.
However it didn't make me fall asleep!  That honor goes to Daughter of the Dragon or whatever Dark Age novel that was.
It's not about winning or losing, no it's all about how many chapters have you added to the rule books after your crazy antics.

Neko_Bijin

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1523
  • Alpha Strike naïf
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #3 on: 13 September 2011, 23:12:34 »
I liked it.
"Lord Kurita is merciful.  You will be spared the humiliation of a trial.  Instead, you are invited to dine with your sainted ancestors.  You don't follow?  Let me rephrase.  I am about to run you through with my sword.  Now you get the picture?  Good."

StoneGiant

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
  • CLAN WIND SHRIMP
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #4 on: 14 September 2011, 05:29:03 »
First book I have read in Battletech that just made me run through it quickly.
Later after the Jihad I went back to it and began to really enjoy it if only slightly more.
However it didn't make me fall asleep!  That honor goes to Daughter of the Dragon or whatever Dark Age novel that was.
Yeah I agree, I could NOT finish Daughter Of The Dragon. I Cannot even remember WHY I didn't care for it, which cannot be a good sign.  ???
555th Prawn Grenadiers, Tempura Galaxy, Scampi Cluster, Gumbo Super Nova, Risotto Trinary, Creole Star.

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #5 on: 14 September 2011, 08:35:11 »
I can kind of imagine why Ideal War never scored high on the popularity scale. It's after all the next best thing we ever got to an anti-war BT novel -- pretty audacious considering what the actual game is all about...

Still, I have to say I liked it. Because after all the reminders of what horrors human beings are capable of inflicting on each other without the slightest twinge of conscience (that most BT fiction really doesn't deal with in favor of more sanitized "Hollywood" violence)? It still manages to end on a pretty positive note. Sure, it takes a bit of Captain-General ex Machina to achieve the happy ending...but the trope's put to good use here, and the situation on Gibson arguably did need something like a savior-figure descending from the sky with a host of knights in fusion-powered armor to resolve. And if that's a bit unrealistic, well, the novel is also about the importance of such things as simple stories in a complex high-tech universe and of not surrendering your ideals lightly even in the face of adverse "reality". So that actually fits together quite well. :)

Arctic Fox

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 217
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #6 on: 14 September 2011, 19:45:49 »
I liked it as well, which surprised me since I often heard about how it (along with Far Country) is one the worst BattleTech novels ever. It's definitely different than most of the other novels, and there were a few parts that didn't make much sense or fit together very well, but overall I didn't think it was nearly as bad as its reputation.

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15233
  • Apparently Im a rare survivor of the 1st!
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #7 on: 14 September 2011, 23:18:09 »
I think it was the first battletech book I read and I enjoyed, enough that I'm on my second copy.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

StoneGiant

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
  • CLAN WIND SHRIMP
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #8 on: 15 September 2011, 03:40:29 »
I think the reason it was so unloved was it was hard to get in to at the beginning, which I seem to remember in Far Country and Star Lord, either that or the fact it was so outside the norm for BT.

IMHO Ideal War was FAR better than Star Lord, and Far Country was pretty good, just too off as a BT novel.
555th Prawn Grenadiers, Tempura Galaxy, Scampi Cluster, Gumbo Super Nova, Risotto Trinary, Creole Star.

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4259
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #9 on: 15 September 2011, 04:42:39 »
IMHO Ideal War was FAR better than Star Lord, and Far Country was pretty good, just too off as a BT novel.
+1

Btw, since these three are often quoted as the three "special" BattleTech novels, I have written extensive Sarna articles about them including plot summaries:
Ideal War
Star Lord
Far Country
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12172
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #10 on: 15 September 2011, 05:28:28 »
Ideal war was the first BT novel I ever bought (I'd only read Way of the Clans and Falcon Guard before getting it), and I never thought it was too bad.  If it has a flaw it's that it goes over the top selling the "war is hell" mentality.  The scene where Masters goes off on one at Valentine about how a blood trail and a severed hand right beside each other count as separate kills (and it has a nattarion about how the scene looks like an anti-war documentary) drives the mesage home too deep - like a preachy late-series episode of M*A*S*H.

In the end it's a solid mid-lister IMO. It's not offensively bad enough to be the worst BT novel ever, but it doesn't have the excitement and gravitas to be one of the best, either.
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

Maniac Actual

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • checkout my fantasy and SF writing
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #11 on: 26 September 2011, 16:17:58 »
Ideal War fails becuase it is a straight - out extrapolation of the Vietnam War into the BT universe.  And it's preachy - horribly preachy - on top of that.  Worst of the orignal B-tech novels by far.  Only worse ones I've read are the DA "Proving Grounds" books.
AS may be as much a representation of the Battletech universe as the original tabletop game is, but if you tell someone "I'm playing Battletech" chances are, if they know what that is, they're going to take you to mean the original tabletop game. - Steve Restless

StoneGiant

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
  • CLAN WIND SHRIMP
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #12 on: 28 September 2011, 04:38:07 »
I've got almost every novel ever printed in English, but have yet to read them all. I view the Dark Age fiction with a bit of trepidation, because of how bored I got past the first two, and how people around here respond to the early ones.

Is it REALLY that bad \ cheesy \ pulpy when compared with the initial line of novel?

I read Ghost For War and it was good, I read the second book and it was MEH, the third book I never finished. I randomly jumped ahead and read The Scorpion Jar and all I remember from that is VSD dying, tried cracking open Hunters Of The Deep and Daughter Of The Dragon randomly and could never finish them.

However that was quite a while back, are they really as a whole (encompassing the rest I've not read) that worse than the regular line of novels?
555th Prawn Grenadiers, Tempura Galaxy, Scampi Cluster, Gumbo Super Nova, Risotto Trinary, Creole Star.

Lorcan Nagle

  • 75 tons of heavy metal mayhem
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12172
  • We're back, baby!
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #13 on: 28 September 2011, 05:00:48 »
I've only read as far as By Temptations and By War (and a bonfire of Worlds) so far, and the books are of middling quality.  I found Ghost War to be decent, really enjoyed A Call to Arms, thought the Ruins of Power was the worst BT novel ever, and going against the grain I thought the proving ground trilogy was OK - sure DelRio got a bunch of canon details wrong, but the oft-maligned somersaulting Pack hunter is just one paragraph, and it's not offensively bad like the ruins of power.
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

Paint it Pink

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Pink Panther Battalion: The Gritty Kitty's
    • Paint it Pink
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #14 on: 28 September 2011, 11:11:52 »
I thought the ending of Ideal War was ironic in that when I read the book I knew what was going to happen to Gibson a few years in the future.
The unseen once seen cannot be unseen



http://panther6actual.blogspot.com/

greatsarcasmo

  • Fabricator General
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6423
  • Ordo Scriptorum
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #15 on: 28 September 2011, 12:23:51 »
First BT book, I read. So I can't do an unbiased review.
Besides it has NUKES!
Maker of big things.

Cerberus_02

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 336
  • I draw stuff for a miniatures company
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #16 on: 15 October 2011, 16:17:28 »
Quote
Thomas: "Since Countess Dystar has somehow failed to create an heir..."

I thought "Ideal War" was humorous, in a "Catch-22" kind of way.
1st Battalion, 91st Royal Battlemech Regiment, 26th Light Brigade Combat Team, 61st Infantry Division, XXVII Corps, Eleventh Army, SLDF

Sunder Prime

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • OMFG, the cake really IS a lie.
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2011, 15:35:15 »
The Good:
Almost makes House Marik likeable.

A nice change from the soap opera-esque storyline switching common in other BT books.

Good foreshadowing about the Wobblies general creepiness.

The Bad: 
The author had watched Platoon too many times.  Vietnam ported into the BT universe.

Paul Masters as Jason Bourne.  If you've been trained as a soldier well enough to do the things he does,
you couldn't possibly be that naive.

A little light on the 'mech action for a BT book.

The Ugly:
Somehow in three years WOB goes from being unable to conquer Gibson to taking Terra from Comstar.

A little too much sex for my taste.  I'm sure that someday my daughter will read about group sex, but I don't want her to read about it in a book I gave her.

Why, in the name of Kerensky would you make a BATTLEtech book ridiculously preachy about the evils of war?  The whole point of the game is war. 



"If you have a simple solution to a problem, you probably don't know enough about the problem." -Colonel James "Huey" Hewitt, Commander of The Devil's Own

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #18 on: 17 October 2011, 16:21:48 »
Why, in the name of Kerensky would you make a BATTLEtech book ridiculously preachy about the evils of war?  The whole point of the game is war.

I see nothing whatsoever wrong with the occasional reminder of the human cost of war. It's too damn easy to gloss over as it is. (Not that I'd want it all the time either, mind, but I'm certainly not upset about this one book.)

That said, the message I've taken from Ideal War isn't so much "War is evil, boo, shame on you all!" as "See? This is what happens if mere civilians think they can play war themselves instead of leaving it to the professionals, and that's why they can't be allowed to do that." Whether one agrees with the sentiment or not is a matter of taste, but I think that bit of nuance is definitely there.

Sunder Prime

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • OMFG, the cake really IS a lie.
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #19 on: 17 October 2011, 16:41:26 »
To be honest I was reaching a bit for the third ugly, but I thought the book went a little overboard with the "war is hell" stuff.  On second thought, after considering your point, I think it was just poorly done.  The book seems to me to be saying that chivalry is dead and at the same time saying that we really need chivalry.  Whatever he was trying to say needed more than one dimensional cardboard cutout characters to be accurately conveyed.  He's certainly not alone in this.  Very little in pop culture captures the human cost of war well.

"If you have a simple solution to a problem, you probably don't know enough about the problem." -Colonel James "Huey" Hewitt, Commander of The Devil's Own

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4259
Re: Ideal War
« Reply #20 on: 18 October 2011, 05:34:42 »
Actually, I think what the book does (or tries to do, judging from how it apparently failed on most readers) is to illustrate the Clan approach:

(False) Thomas Marik and Paul Masters discuss the Clans who, at the time, are outlandish invaders on the opposite end of the Inner Sphere who have far superior technology and utterly strange ways and beliefs. And who have no qualms about flattening a city if need be.
In the beginning, the Clans are portrayed as powerful, unpredictable and dangerous.

At the conclusion of the book, through the horrors Masters has experienced and fT Marik witnessed (vietnamish guerilla war, nukes deployed by Joe Average), they come to the conclusion that the Clans' approach with formalized warfare is the preferrable option. The Knights of the Inner Sphere, after all, have a similar honor system and have it for exactly the same reasons as the Clans. Someone even points out that the Clans initially try to spare cities, and only fight dirty when forced to do so - it's only when pressed by the defenders that the Clan gloves come off.

WoB, on the other hand, never learned that lesson (save for Precentor Blane, who eventually vanishes). They opt to go down the opposite road. A few years later, when they have finally sorted out their internal differences, that makes them what they have become. In the sense of understanding the Word of Blake, Ideal War is probably the most important book to read.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

 

Register