Herotitus population

[Moragion]

So, looking at the old Periphery book and Sarna.net it states that the population of Herotitus is around 200.000 in 3025. Yet, the Touring the Stars book says that the population in 3067 is of 16,631,000. Even considering that we take the info on the old Periphery book as not precise, as many times in universe it happens with field manuals and such, it seems too much of a difference to not consider it a mistake by the writers.
So the question is, which population figure do you think would be right? I think Herotitus should have a much larger population than 200k, so maybe the Touring's is the best assumption. Any idea?

[Mendrugo]

The 3025 number is likely low by an order of magnitude, but in-universe explanations for the surge could include a huge influx of refugees fleeing the fighting during the Arano Restoration, since Herotitus is one of the closest independent worlds to the fighting.  (Such a surge could explain how the New Hedons got outnumbered on their own colony and had the casinos and other sin industries shut down by puritanical types circa 3055.)

[Moragion]

Humm, interesting point. Although I know the Arano Coalition is canon now, I usually disregard it in my games as non existent (I love the videogame, but somehow the retcon is something odd to me). In any case the difference in population seems too large for a refugee explanation, but perhaps the best option would be then to go to a middle point, like saying that the figure of 200k is wrong ,and population was probably more like 5 or 6 M and then add the refugees plus the 40+ years to complete the numbers.

[Elmoth]

Wow. A x3 multiplication in 2 generations is still massive. Didn't notice the difference between sources. You can also go the other way around and say that 16M is off by an order of magnitude and now it is 1.6M. Given its importance 16M can be correct though.

[Mendrugo]

Humm, interesting point. Although I know the Arano Coalition is canon now, I usually disregard it in my games as non existent (I love the videogame, but somehow the retcon is something odd to me).

The original intro text to the BattleTech universe, as written by Jordan Weissman back in the mid-80s, says that there are more than 100 bandit kingdoms in the Periphery around the Inner Sphere.  A later revision (MechWarrior 1st edition) brought that down to 60+.  Nevertheless, even if you generously count every mapped Periphery and Deep Periphery state (counting each Chainlane Isle faction as a bandit kingdom), you struggle to get into the 50s, so there's room for canon factions to be lurking around but not making it onto the maps.  Oversight by ComStar Cartographic Corps?  Intentional disinformation by ComStar Cartographic Corps?  (We've seen that with RWR Outpost #27). 

It's not so much a retcon as a fleshing out of a promised element that was never fully realized in the early products.

[Elmoth]

Regarding this, it can be said that the northern bandit kingdoms (valkyriate, butte hold, ....) We're fleshed out, but the rest of "the ring" of pirate kingdoms that surround the sphere and periphery were not, so there might be dozens of other pirate kingdoms around. Just because the draconis combine only recognizes antallos (because other powers are impacted by it) does not mean that there are other pirates lurking in their external border. Or that anybody cares about the pirates in the external border of the taurians.

[Doc Swift]

I didn't make an error with the decimal point. I deliberately chose that number. It's a combination of 200k being low (IMHO) and taking into account all the upheaval in the region since 3025. The Fourth Succession War, the failed Andurien-Canopian invasion of the CC, FedCom Civil War, Operation Guerrero, multiple alterations of the planet's, erm, governing philosophy... With the economic boom following the New Hedon movement taking control compared to the previous agrarian economy, I felt a concomitant population boom was justified. (Consider, for example, that the number of caucasians in Alaska rose from 4200 to over 30k in ten years because of the gold rush, a sixfold increase.) If you wish to argue that I was wrong to make that choice, that's cool. But that is the number I wanted it to be, so blame me and not the FC team or anyone else. :)

[Metallgewitter]

I think in one of the FM's it's also mentioned how the population has grown so much that it made the goverment suspicious (missing taxes of course) I think it was in the Mercenary 2 Hand book where some "dregs" of the mercenary units were described. Of course it could also be refugees from successor states (From the Clan invasion) and from other Periphery nations (the Reaches might be the best source after all the Taurians run amok in that nation (well colonies really) in their blind zeal in finding "Davion agitators"

[Moragion]

The original intro text to the BattleTech universe, as written by Jordan Weissman back in the mid-80s, says that there are more than 100 bandit kingdoms in the Periphery around the Inner Sphere.  A later revision (MechWarrior 1st edition) brought that down to 60+.  Nevertheless, even if you generously count every mapped Periphery and Deep Periphery state (counting each Chainlane Isle faction as a bandit kingdom), you struggle to get into the 50s, so there's room for canon factions to be lurking around but not making it onto the maps.  Oversight by ComStar Cartographic Corps?  Intentional disinformation by ComStar Cartographic Corps?  (We've seen that with RWR Outpost #27). 

It's not so much a retcon as a fleshing out of a promised element that was never fully realized in the early products.

Yeah, I know there are dozens of pirate kingdoms and minor goverments, but the Aurigan Coalition is a nation that rules over 22 systems, as per the map, which is more than any of the other minor periphery states, and closer to the big three ones. If the Coalition was only three or four worlds strong, then I would not consider it a retcon. Don't get me wrong, the game is amazing, I had a lot of fun with it, and still do, but I will probably consider it non-canon in general. But not against using it in a future game, specially as some of the players have played the game, and don't have any other experience with Battletech.

I didn't make an error with the decimal point. I deliberately chose that number. It's a combination of 200k being low (IMHO) and taking into account all the upheaval in the region since 3025. The Fourth Succession War, the failed Andurien-Canopian invasion of the CC, FedCom Civil War, Operation Guerrero, multiple alterations of the planet's, erm, governing philosophy... With the economic boom following the New Hedon movement taking control compared to the previous agrarian economy, I felt a concomitant population boom was justified. (Consider, for example, that the number of caucasians in Alaska rose from 4200 to over 30k in ten years because of the gold rush, a sixfold increase.) If you wish to argue that I was wrong to make that choice, that's cool. But that is the number I wanted it to be, so blame me and not the FC team or anyone else. :)

I understand that working in the Periphery, without any reliable source on info must be a daunting endeavour, but even then, Doc, you have to agree that it is an unbelievable figure. Simply put, the 200k figure was too low, either caused by misinformation or it is a typo. To me, a population going 3, 4 or 5 times in a short span of time seems possible with the proper situation, but we are talking about 80-fold increase.

[Elmoth]

Note: I do not have the Aurigan book.
 
The Aurigans are around in 3025. I am not aware of them being around by 3050, though, so maybe they did not hold together and now are just a few planets strong. The civil war certainly put A LOT of pressure on the finances of the coalition, so it is perfeclty plausible that they diminished. Until the 3050+ maps are redone we will be unsure about the existance (or not) of the Aurigans. I would keep them, but as a much smaller power.

The idea of a strong power in the area might have been one of the driving forces behind the creation of the independent fronc reaches, one built from the ground up slowly to avoid the mistakes of the Aurigans.

This is part of my head canon anyway :)

[Doc Swift]

I understand that working in the Periphery, without any reliable source on info must be a daunting endeavour, but even then, Doc, you have to agree that it is an unbelievable figure. Simply put, the 200k figure was too low, either caused by misinformation or it is a typo. To me, a population going 3, 4 or 5 times in a short span of time seems possible with the proper situation, but we are talking about 80-fold increase.

You realize I agreed with you, right?

200k being low (IMHO)

The numbers in TtS: Herotitus are the correct ones until/unless a new source retcons them.

[Moragion]

You realize I agreed with you, right?
The numbers in TtS: Herotitus are the correct ones until/unless a new source retcons them.

Clearly no XD Sorry if I misunderstood, english is not my mother tongue.

I agree that the data in TS:Herotitus is more believeable, as all the casinos and entertaintment industries suggest a big enough population

[Doc Swift]

 8)

[Colt Ward]

Herotitus is a interesting world in a interesting place . . .

So between the first peek and last we get . . .

Marik's civil war #?? (Janos vs Anton)
Aurigan civil war
4th Succession War
Romano's ascension
Capellan-Andurien/Canopian War
Clan Invasion
ComStar vs Word of Blake
Detroit invasion
FedCom Civil War
SIC re-absorption
Taurian split
Jihad

It is established in this setting that wars in the Inner Sphere send flocks of refuges into the periphery.  On top of this the mercenary trade into the Periphery flourished in the wake of the Clan Invasion as you had some units head that direction to avoid being fodder against the Clans and b/c tech & money in the periphery increased.  After the ComStar schism, you also had the Blakists change . . . well Jerome Blake's bias into a actual use of the Periphery- in fact, Blakists' political meddling could explain how/why the power change happened in the late 50s with the repression.

[Wendelsnatch]

The easiest explanation is that the 200k figure was from old star league census information.  Through oversight, neglect, or simple apathy the figure was not updated properly in 3025 periphery book.  3067 Touring the stars 16 million makes more sense when viewed in the light of 200k being the population in the 2700s.

[Colt Ward]

The easiest explanation is that the 200k figure was from old star league census information.  Through oversight, neglect, or simple apathy the figure was not updated properly in 3025 periphery book.  3067 Touring the stars 16 million makes more sense when viewed in the light of 200k being the population in the 2700s.

*Family Feud clapping*  Good Answer good answer!


Yeah, all joking aside it is a very good answer knowing Blake's periphery bias.  Do we even know if/when it had a HPG station set up?  or a ComStar message center?