'Loose' Autocannons for flak/AI purposes

[idea weenie]

Instead of having an optimized and stable autocannon that can reliably hit the same location 300 meters away, these autocannons are slightly looser and can only hit the same location from ~150 meters away.  This also gives it a better chance of hitting small/nimble units, at reduced damage.  Easier to make, but can only take one type of ammo.

Game Rules:
Use existing autocannon masses, heat, etc, but the autocannons can fire in any of the following modes:

• Flak/anti-air: use the standard ranges for that autocannon, but halve the damage (FRU, but a minimum of 1-pt reduction in total damage so someone doesn't try to create an AC/1 and exploit this).  Use Flak to-hit bonuses, and the firer chooses before the game begins if they will be hitting in 1-pt or 2-pt clusters
• Anti-Infantry: use the standard ranges, halve the damage, and roll that many D2 for AI damage
• Standard: double the range to the target, and use that for range-band purposes.  Does full damage and the hit location is a single location

Ammunition: uses standard autocannon ammunition for all three modes, scatter effect is from the gun being slightly looser in tolerances.  Scatter means it is more likely to hit a larger area, but also that it won't get the repeated impacts on the same location.

Example:
Assume you are firing an AC/5 at a helicopter that is 7 hexes away.  You fire in Flak mode, and if you hit at medium range then you do 3 pts of damage (for each hit location normally).  If you want to hit with full effect, you take its actual range (7), double it to 14, and see that is a long range band.  If you hit with this then you do 5 pts to a single location.  If you were shooting at an infantry unit that is 7 hexes away, it would be medium range and you would be rolling 3d2 for AI damage.

I could see this as a TL C weapon, or a TL D weapon with Quirks of Easy to Maintain (lower tolerances).  Both versions would have the negative Quirk of Static Ammo Feed

The advantage is that you don't need highly skilled techs to maintain the weapon.  The obvious down side is that if you want standard ranges, damage, and ammo selection ability then you should use a regular autocannon.


Source idea:
Read an article about what would happen if a machine gun was too accurate.  Essentially if the machine gun /anti-air gun is too accurate then all the shots go through the same 'line' of space that an opponent can easily avoid.  But if the gun is slightly less accurate you are creating a small 'wall' of shots that the target has to avoid, where they will likely still get hit, but not by all the shots.

[RifleMech]

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding this. If you don't want an aircraft to avoid your line of fire, don't use tracers. If they can't see it, that can't avoid it.

And why would the cannon do full damage to a Mech or tank at full distance but only half to an aircraft or infantry? If the cannon is so loose as to only do half damage at half range, it shouldn't do any damage at all at full range.

I'd just use alternative ammo and be able to hit at a distance.

[idea weenie]

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding this. If you don't want an aircraft to avoid your line of fire, don't use tracers. If they can't see it, that can't avoid it.

And why would the cannon do full damage to a Mech or tank at full distance but only half to an aircraft or infantry? If the cannon is so loose as to only do half damage at half range, it shouldn't do any damage at all at full range.

I'd just use alternative ammo and be able to hit at a distance.

It is a lower-tech weapon, and even without tracers a 'tight' weapon only does damage via a line of shots, which is easier to avoid vs a wall of shots.

It does not do full damage to a Mech or veh at max range.  When firing at full damage you take the range to the target, double it, and that is what range band it is in.  So if a Mech is actually at range 4 then the effective range is treated as 8.  If the Mech or Veh is at range 7 it is treated as though being at range 14.
For example, the standard AC/2 that has ranges of 8/16/24 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 4/8/12 for full damage.
The standard AC/5 that has ranges of 6/12/18 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 3/6/9 for full damage.
The standard AC/10 that has ranges of 5/10/15 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 2/5/7 for full damage.
The standard AC/20 that has ranges of 3/6/9 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 1/3/4 for full damage.

So  an enemy unit is at range 12, and the unit has a loose AC/5.  The player wants to do full damage, so they take the range to the target (12), double it to 24, and look that up on the AC/5 range bands.  This value of 24 is greater than the AC/5's long range of 18, meaning it cannot be fired in full damage.  So the controlling character has to fire it in flak mode at range 12 vs the enemy Mech, hoping to do 3 pts of damage to it.

It does full damage at half range and half damage (FRU) at full range.

It is a lower-tech weapon that only needs to use standard ammo to get the full benefits.  Basically one less thing for your quartermasters to stock, and the lower tolerances mean it can be built on lower-tech worlds and maintained more easily.  Just send them some standard AC/5 ammo (or the plans for an AC/5 ammo factory) and the militia is good.

This is a militia type weapon, rather than a 'modern' weapon.

[Calimehter]

If I'm understanding it right . . . the advantage is that you can switch firing modes to get different effects rather than have to have multiple ammo bins with different kinds of ammo to get those effects.  The disadvantage is that each option is (or seems to be) a bit worse than a dedicated standard gun for each purpose, or even a dedicated extra set of specialty ammo bins for a standard gun.

I'd consider fielding it with motorized infantry with field guns since they only get one ton of ammo per gun.  Just the kind of low-tech unit you would expect to see fielding a low tech solution.

[RifleMech]

It is a lower-tech weapon, and even without tracers a 'tight' weapon only does damage via a line of shots, which is easier to avoid vs a wall of shots.

 ??? :-\ Autocannons only fire in a line of shots.

It does not do full damage to a Mech or veh at max range.  When firing at full damage you take the range to the target, double it, and that is what range band it is in.  So if a Mech is actually at range 4 then the effective range is treated as 8.  If the Mech or Veh is at range 7 it is treated as though being at range 14.
For example, the standard AC/2 that has ranges of 8/16/24 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 4/8/12 for full damage.
The standard AC/5 that has ranges of 6/12/18 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 3/6/9 for full damage.
The standard AC/10 that has ranges of 5/10/15 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 2/5/7 for full damage.
The standard AC/20 that has ranges of 3/6/9 normally, when used as a 'loose' autocannon would have effective ranges of 1/3/4 for full damage.

So  an enemy unit is at range 12, and the unit has a loose AC/5.  The player wants to do full damage, so they take the range to the target (12), double it to 24, and look that up on the AC/5 range bands.  This value of 24 is greater than the AC/5's long range of 18, meaning it cannot be fired in full damage.  So the controlling character has to fire it in flak mode at range 12 vs the enemy Mech, hoping to do 3 pts of damage to it.

It does full damage at half range and half damage (FRU) at full range.

I think you're making it overly complicated.

Low Tech (Tech B) Autocannon

It does full damage at half range and half damage (FRU) at full range.

I could see that of some use with militia. However, they'd outclass Rifle Cannons which is a problem. The AC/2 is still doing 2 points of damage against a Mech at 12 hexes while the LRC does 0. I'd rather just remove the -3 damage from the Rifles and use them. If I had to keep a damage reduction I'd rather reduce damage by 1 point per range band past short. So short range full damage, medium -1, long -2, extreme -3.

It is a lower-tech weapon that only needs to use standard ammo to get the full benefits.  Basically one less thing for your quartermasters to stock, and the lower tolerances mean it can be built on lower-tech worlds and maintained more easily.  Just send them some standard AC/5 ammo (or the plans for an AC/5 ammo factory) and the militia is good.

This is a militia type weapon, rather than a 'modern' weapon.

Um...no. That would be like replacing black powder with the same amount of modern gun powder. The bullet might go further and might hit harder but the weapon will also likely blow up. If you want a low tech AC to do full damage at modern AC ranges it would need it's own round. And if the militia can make a a Tech C AC round, why not make the Tech C AC to go with it?

[idea weenie]

??? :-\ Autocannons only fire in a line of shots.

That is why this autocannon is different.  Standard autocannons fire the line of shots that can be dodged decently, as if you can get out of the way of the first shot then all successive shots are also dodged.  This design is loose enough to create a 'wall' of shots that is harder to dodge (a shotgun instead of a rifle).  The scattered shots are more likely to hit, but the hit will do less damage.

I think you're making it overly complicated.

Low Tech (Tech B) Autocannon
I could see that of some use with militia. However, they'd outclass Rifle Cannons which is a problem. The AC/2 is still doing 2 points of damage against a Mech at 12 hexes while the LRC does 0. I'd rather just remove the -3 damage from the Rifles and use them. If I had to keep a damage reduction I'd rather reduce damage by 1 point per range band past short. So short range full damage, medium -1, long -2, extreme -3.

That overly complicated part was me trying to list all the in-game options that might come up, for each of the four autocannon sizes.

It is not a Tech B Autocannon.  It is either a high-tech TL C, or low-tech TL D.  The advantage it has is that it only needs one type of ammunition to do anti-air or heavy hitting (at reduced range).

For damage reduction based on range, you'd have people preferring to use the AC/20, as losing 3 pts of damage from a 20-pt hit is a minor issue, while losing 2 pts of damage from an AC/2 effectively nullifies it.

For the various Rifle Cannons, I'd prefer if their damage reduction was based on a divisor, instead of a straight subtraction.  It might be dividing by 2 and FRD, such as:
Light Rifle Cannon: 3 dmg before reduction, 1 dmg after
Medium Rifle Cannon: 6 dmg before reduction, 3 dmg after
Heavy Rifle Cannon: 9 dmg before reduction, 4 dmg after

Um...no. That would be like replacing black powder with the same amount of modern gun powder. The bullet might go further and might hit harder but the weapon will also likely blow up. If you want a low tech AC to do full damage at modern AC ranges it would need it's own round. And if the militia can make a a Tech C AC round, why not make the Tech C AC to go with it?

It is not doing full damage at modern AC ranges.  It is doing half damage at full range and full damage at half range. 


Calimehter has it right, it is a low-tech solution that only needs low-tech maintenance.  Superweapons are for fanfiction, this is something that can be shipped off to various militia units, where even if the militia unit loses then the pirates are not likely to steal this gun and turn it against you.

[RifleMech]

That is why this autocannon is different.  Standard autocannons fire the line of shots that can be dodged decently, as if you can get out of the way of the first shot then all successive shots are also dodged.  This design is loose enough to create a 'wall' of shots that is harder to dodge (a shotgun instead of a rifle).  The scattered shots are more likely to hit, but the hit will do less damage.

Guns don't work like that. Your loose gun is still firing a line of rounds. Only in this case its a line made with a dull crayon instead of a sharp pencil. It does less damage because it's less accurate as the rounds are tumbling all over in the same direction. A wall of rounds is more like a volley gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billinghurst_Requa_Battery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun

Many of these I'd probably allow for full damage at range if they get lucky by rolling on the cluster hit chart. The ones with the barrels fanned out, I'd increase the to hit penalties per increase in range while reducing the damage.

That or something like a shotgun firing shot where the damage is reduced the further the shot travels. In that case, I'd go with a bonus to hit the further the target but the damage gets reduced by 1/3 to 1/2 per range band. So the AC/20 firing shot, would do 20 at short range with normal modifiers, -1 at medium doing 13-10 damage, -2 at long doing 4-3 damage.

That overly complicated part was me trying to list all the in-game options that might come up, for each of the four autocannon sizes.

Why should the different size weapons have different options?

It is not a Tech B Autocannon.  It is either a high-tech TL C, or low-tech TL D.  The advantage it has is that it only needs one type of ammunition to do anti-air or heavy hitting (at reduced range).

You said it's a low tech weapon. Autocannons are Tech C. Lower tech would have a B or A rating. A planet with lower tech than C won't be able to manufacture a Tech C weapon much less a higher Tech D weapon.

I also don't see how it'd work as an AA weapon. If it's damage at reduced because of poor accuracy, how's it supposed to hit aircraft outside of a lucky shot? I believe the range increases by 2 hexes with each altitude.

If I wanted a single ammo type that I could switch between standard damage and flak, I'd go with the ammo in the Partisan AA Tank's fluff. It switch between standard and flak and it doesn't loose damage doing so. Unless I fire the ammo in flak mode at a ground target. Then it'd be half damage.

For damage reduction based on range, you'd have people preferring to use the AC/20, as losing 3 pts of damage from a 20-pt hit is a minor issue, while losing 2 pts of damage from an AC/2 effectively nullifies it.

For the various Rifle Cannons, I'd prefer if their damage reduction was based on a divisor, instead of a straight subtraction.  It might be dividing by 2 and FRD, such as:
Light Rifle Cannon: 3 dmg before reduction, 1 dmg after
Medium Rifle Cannon: 6 dmg before reduction, 3 dmg after
Heavy Rifle Cannon: 9 dmg before reduction, 4 dmg after

At what range would the divisor be? Going with -1 per range band, the LRC would do 3 damage at short range, 2 and medium, and 1 at long. No extreme range of the LRC. The MRC would do 6/5/4/3 and the HRC would do 9/8/7/6.

It is not doing full damage at modern AC ranges.  It is doing half damage at full range and full damage at half range. 

Isn't the damage supposed to be half at full range? And the AC/20 has a range of 9? So full damage at 4 hexes? The HRC can hit at 18 for 6 damage. 9 damage against lower armored targets. The AC/20 is also 6 tons heavier, 7 crits bigger, and has 1 shot less per ton. I can't see it being used.


Calimehter has it right, it is a low-tech solution that only needs low-tech maintenance.  Superweapons are for fanfiction, this is something that can be shipped off to various militia units, where even if the militia unit loses then the pirates are not likely to steal this gun and turn it against you.

You just said it was a higher tech weapon though so it wouldn't be usable to most militias.