Field Reports 2765

[Liam's Ghost]

They turn out twenty six 900,000 ton battlecruisers before the first succession war. Does that count?

[bblaney]

Personally I think the SLDF was kicking themselves in the posterior when they had to retake Terra and could of sorely used the Soyal class cruisers and had to go up against all those automated defenses. They could of easily crushed the stations controlling them and made it a lot easier on themselves.

[Weirdo]

Personally I think the SLDF was kicking themselves in the posterior when they had to retake Terra and could of sorely used the Soyal class cruisers and had to go up against all those automated defenses. They could of easily crushed the stations controlling them and made it a lot easier on themselves.

A Soyal would be marinated and pre-tenderized meat against a Pavise. Even a group of them would take horrendous losses against a single such station, as it has normal capital bays that easily outrange the mass driver, are more accurate at said ranges, and the Pavise mounts far more such bays even in a single arc than a Soyal has mass drivers. You want to take out one of those stations without incurring ACW-level casualties, you use capmissiles bearings-launched from beyond direct weapons range. Or enough fighters to make the Battle of Endor look like a back-country air show.

[mikecj]

Or enough fighters to make the Battle of Endor look like a back-country air show.

Now that line's a keeper!

[Redman]

New armour. Harjel. New computers.

Armour and weapons ere explicitly stated to be retained from the Riga although i guess the usual weight recalculation because of the different tech base would apply. Except for the fighter scale weaponry the rest seems completely in line with the other updates the clans performed on their SL-vintage WarShips. Makes you wonder whether there were other major yet unmentioned differences between the Riga and the Yorck which made the name change necessary.


BTW, upon re-reading the section about the first WarShips in StatOps i stumbled over a very interesting paragraph (emphasis mine):

At the height of the original Star League, national aerospace forces operated on the scale of armies, assigned not only as DropShip escorts and air-to-ground support for ’Mech forces, but also as the first line of defense for the mighty WarShips. WarShips themselves were common, with each member state claiming hundreds of these massive dreadnaughts that acted as combat vessels and a key element in strategic supply chains.

I only wish they had remembered that part when they decided on the sizes of the member states' fleets.  [drool]

[Wrangler]

I only wish they had remembered that part when they decided on the sizes of the member states' fleets.  [drool]

You and me both, friend. 

[DarthRads]

Am I the only one who expects the Lyran Commonwealth to have 16 Battleships with .5G max thrust and a single Aegis class as a scout ship?

You mean the Aegis ISN'T a scout?

Side note, the LC did create the Mako, one of the lightest and the fastes WarShips ever!

[sillybrit]

Side note, the LC did create the Mako, one of the lightest and the fastes WarShips ever!

Yes, but they were trying to design an ASF.

[Wrangler]

You mean the Aegis ISN'T a scout?

Side note, the LC did create the Mako, one of the lightest and the fastest WarShips ever!

An more powerful than alot units for its time too.  I keep forgetting about the Mako.  Why in world the SLDF or the RWR would only 100 each...thing a murder machine in WarShip terms incomparison to other corvettes.

[DarthRads]

Yes, but they were trying to design an ASF.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Amaris Fan Club]

Yes, but they were trying to design an ASF.

"Introducing the Defiance 'Midge' Compact Car, Only 6 1/2 Tons! (2 MPG Highway/.5 MPG City)"

Nah, but seriously, I can see the Lyrans having a huge but obsolete fleet, because they once had a great navy but then decided mid-way through the Star League era that they didn't feel like paying the taxes to support it.  Too bad, if anyone was going to build the SDF-1 in the BT universe it was them.

[I am Belch II]

You mean the Aegis ISN'T a scout?

Side note, the LC did create the Mako, one of the lightest and the fastes WarShips ever!

A small  fast warship built by a house believes on bigger is better.

[Jellico]

You know, I am surprised that no one has picked up on just how heavy the CCAF fleet is. 15 DDs or less vs 22 capital ships.

[Weirdo]

Yeah, they're definitely top-heavy.

[Wrangler]

I think only problem i have about trying to gauge the way fleets are, is how heck their suppose to engage one another and tell the tale.

World War II clashes, had ships lost and number of them damaged.  During the times prior to the Reunification War to actual dawn of the first Succession War...did they (the Inner Sphere powers) actually clash with each other squadrons of WarShips or have some kind of encounters?    In AT2R/Strag Ops, Clashes in those rules (aside from the advanced ones with ECM and bracket fires etc) WarShips don't last long against one another.    A single WarShip might well be a capital ship in comparison to a squadron of DropShips of the past time periods.

I'm keep hoping some of the older Primitive JumpShips were converted into Repair Tenders or something.  It seems kind off balance that the Star League was only ones who had YardShips.   

[Bergie]

Just because we don't have stats for them doesn't mean that the Houses didn't have some Yardships.  We know that the Clans produced Mobile yards of an unrevealed class, with dozens of them floating around the Homeworlds at the time of the Wars of Reaving.

[Wrangler]

Just because we don't have stats for them doesn't mean that the Houses didn't have some Yardships.  We know that the Clans produced Mobile yards of an unrevealed class, with dozens of them floating around the Homeworlds at the time of the Wars of Reaving.

I quite understand what your saying, I agree.  However it be nice they mention them in canon text somewhere.  Some people don't buy it unless they see it in black & white print sometimes.

[Weirdo]

During the times prior to the Reunification War to actual dawn of the first Succession War...did they (the Inner Sphere powers) actually clash with each other squadrons of WarShips or have some kind of encounters?

Yes. See the Hidden Wars.

[Jellico]

I'm keep hoping some of the older Primitive JumpShips were converted into Repair Tenders or something.  It seems kind off balance that the Star League was only ones who had YardShips.

I don't know how much yard ships would be really needed. The House navies are small and the fixed infrastructure plentiful. It is not like the Houses ever operated in less developed areas without SLDF support.

For a real life example, consider the difference between the US and UK in the WWII Pacific. Coming from the sparse east the US needed temporary support facilities. Coming from the west the UK had long term harbours all the way to Hong Kong. Both navies planned accordingly. And even then the US expected to be operating out fixed bases on the Philippines and had three floating dry docks in 1941. Of course events kicked everyone in the teeth.

As for tenders, we know such DropShips existed and we have examples from the 3060s of WarShips parking and building their own scaffolding around themselves. We also know SLDF WarShips (and probably everyone else) was capable of seemingly major operations like rebarrelling NACs as they carried spares in the field.

[Gryphon]

If did note the strange ratio of cruisers and capitals to escorts, but I just thought that was the way it was done. I take it that this isn't the case then? When I red 3057, it just seemed that the old joke "I kills it with my battleships" was entirely accurate, and if the TH/SL had that sort of throw weight, then the houses would as well, otherwise there was never going to be any real truth to the concept that any single house, or even two houses, were overpowered by the League, but if they all opted to turn on the League, the League was in real trouble.

Past of this stems from the feeling I get that the heavies of the universe, Heavy Cruiser on up, are notably better off in a multiple to one engagement when facing the lighter DD, FF and CVT class ships. Is this not actually the case, and should it be something to be concerned about for the players that do actually play (and unlike me, truly understand) the warship aspect of the game?

As for the topic at hand, I don't give a rat's behind if it sucks, the Soyal is a rocking awesome concept done right, and one that Weirdo has every right to be proud of the results. Its a wonder blend of "HOLY CRAP!" and "Hmm...this...has issues...", making it spot on really.

I also note that I clearly don't understand the numbers of regimental numbers and origins in universe nearly so well as I thought. When I was reading the various lancer, charger, dragoon and similar regiments about, my eyes started to glaze over!

[I am Belch II]

The CCAF might be top heavy with some big ships, but take away the mass drivers of the big ships and not a lot of firepower on a large part of the fleet.

[Weirdo]

The CCAF might be top heavy with some big ships, but take away the mass drivers of the big ships and not a lot of firepower on a large part of the fleet.

That's kinda like saying that the Clans of Kerensky might be powerful, but don't have much firepower if you take away their 'Mechs. The Soyal-class is such an integral part of Capellan fleet strategy that I really don't understand any attempt to look at their navy without them.

[I am Belch II]

That's kinda like saying that the Clans of Kerensky might be powerful, but don't have much firepower if you take away their 'Mechs. The Soyal-class is such an integral part of Capellan fleet strategy that I really don't understand any attempt to look at their navy without them.

I know the Soyal was a big part of the fleet. Not discounting that. But what would you rather want 10 S. Soyuz or 10 McKennas in your fleet.

[Weirdo]

Be careful of your reliance on Cruiser A, because would you rather have Cruiser B or Battleship C in your fleet.

...you lost me completely. What do SovSoys or Mckennas have to do with Soyals? Especially since the Capellans have access to neither?

[Giovanni Blasini]

A more interesting question would be more Soyals vs. more Du Shi Wangs.

[Weirdo]

I see the two as working well together. Du Shi Wangs actually have enough armor to charge into the midst of an enemy fleet and wreck shop, their main weakness is their limited and fixed-forward firepower. Even with the Mass Driver taking up so much room, Soyals are much more flexible and have longer engagement ranges than any Dooshie. Sending the battleship on in to try and put that big PPC bay where it can do the most good is obviously risky, but you can alleviate much of that risk if you have a Soyal or two hanging back and covering its flanks with missile and NGR fire. Extremely inefficient compared to sending a single SL battleship to do the same job, but since the Confederation has no ships equivalent to a League BB, you have to make do with what you have.

[verybad]

You know, I am surprised that no one has picked up on just how heavy the CCAF fleet is. 15 DDs or less vs 22 capital ships.

Technically, they're all Capital ships. The blue water navy descriptions don't really apply IMO. It's it can handle Capital weapons, then it's a capital ship.

I'm sure you already know this, but blue water navy capitals had immunity to most smaller guns (and some torpedo immunity) due to their armoring. Due to the hit point system battletech uses for combat, that doesn't apply even for warships. The only thing left is weapons capability.

There's no real difference between a destroyer and a battleship than size, not even really role determining capability or lack thereof.

[Jellico]

It's it can handle Capital weapons, then it's a capital ship.

There's no real difference between a destroyer and a battleship than size, not even really role determining capability or lack thereof.

Interesting definition. I personally use expendability. That said, this probably isn't the place for this discussion. At least until we see more House fleets and can make comparisons.

[Wrangler]

If did note the strange ratio of cruisers and capitals to escorts, but I just thought that was the way it was done. I take it that this isn't the case then? When I red 3057, it just seemed that the old joke "I kills it with my battleships" was entirely accurate, and if the TH/SL had that sort of throw weight, then the houses would as well, otherwise there was never going to be any real truth to the concept that any single house, or even two houses, were overpowered by the League, but if they all opted to turn on the League, the League was in real trouble.

Past of this stems from the feeling I get that the heavies of the universe, Heavy Cruiser on up, are notably better off in a multiple to one engagement when facing the lighter DD, FF and CVT class ships. Is this not actually the case, and should it be something to be concerned about for the players that do actually play (and unlike me, truly understand) the warship aspect of the game?

As for the topic at hand, I don't give a rat's behind if it sucks, the Soyal is a rocking awesome concept done right, and one that Weirdo has every right to be proud of the results. Its a wonder blend of "HOLY CRAP!" and "Hmm...this...has issues...", making it spot on really.

I also note that I clearly don't understand the numbers of regimental numbers and origins in universe nearly so well as I thought. When I was reading the various lancer, charger, dragoon and similar regiments about, my eyes started to glaze over!

Ratio is partial to due to CGL limitations in put out units that are by large and large hand made due and in a genre as far i can tell isn't making them moola for game that focas on giant robotic combat vehicles aka BattleMechs.  I would like see more balance fleet for each great house.  However, there not much we can do about it.  :/

[bigmac]

I expect the Davion's will probably get the Defender and maybe another 'old' unit, and I hope the League (at the very least!) get two new units. 

Up to now, we only have a fairly small number of known ships for each nation for prior to the 1st Succession War

CapCon - 1 (Du Shi Wang)
LyrCom - 3 (Tharkad, Mako, Sylvester)
FedSuns - 3.5 (New Syrtis, Robinson, Davion I/Davion II)
FWL - 1 (Atreus)
Dracs - 1.5 (Samarkand I/Samarkand II)
TaurCon - 3 (Winchester, Concordat, Wagon Wheel)
RWR - 2 (Stefan Amaris, Pinto)

Using your list, I have modified it with the information released from the Reunification War, Liberation of Terra, Volume I, Combat Operations, and FM2765 CapCon:

Capellan Confederation - 10 (Du Shi Wang, Black Lion, Soyal, Aegis, Baron, Carson, Lola I, Essex I, Vincent, Vigilant)
Lyran Commonwealth - 5 (Tharkad, Aegis, Mako, Sylvester, Vigilant)
Federated Suns - 8 (New Syrtis, Robinson, Aegis, Congress, Davion I/Davion II, Baron, Vigilant)
Free Worlds League - 5 (Atreus, Soyal, Aegis, Baron, Vigilant - the FWL also bought the Soyal)
Draconis Combine - 5 (Samarkand I/Samarkand II, Aegis, Baron, Vigilant)
Taurian Concordat - 5 (Winchester, Dart, Concordat, Wagon Wheel, Pinto)
Magistracy of Canopus - 3 (Concordat, Dart, Pinto)
Rim Worlds Republic - 17 (Stefan Amaris, Dart, Pinto + every obsolete Hegemony/Star League warship class - First Lord Richard Cameron sold 200 obsolete and mothballed warships to his good friend Stefan Amaris so add Aegis, Avatar, Baron, Black Lion I, Bonaventure, Carson, Lola I, Lola II, Farragut, Monsoon, Quixote, Riga, Vigilant, and Vincent to the Rim Worlds Navy)

This is the total for ship classes that we know so far.