Returning players, please read this post.

[Bedwyr]

This sounds incredible. I may have to postpone my Firefly-Dollhouse matchup to watch it.

Heheh. Glad to have made a potential fan. It was an entire television series that was... very convoluted. I wish you luck. :)

[mbear]

Added Jihad Timeline info.

[DancingTofu]

This really needs to be stickied.  O0

[mbear]

2011/12/27- Added timeline of Jihad info to post.
2012/0104 - Added QuickMech to software section

[hawkeye44]

Hey guys, this weekend I finished up a graphic walking through some of the stuff mbear goes over in his opening post, matched up against real world years for good measure. Parts of it may also be helpful for new players.

Check it out!

This graphic is astoundingly helpful to me, especially as I try to sort out some questions I had about TROs. This basically solved all my questions and problems, and also helped me kick-start my Jihad schooling. I know basically nothing after 3055 or so.

[mbear]

Integrated skiltao's BattleTech timeline image into the article.

[Blackjack Jones]

mbear: The fractional accounting also effected vehicles from TRO:3026 as well.
but some of this is unstated gear (for the time) that has been brought up to
modern design rules. But let's start with a list for TRO:2750.

Changes from old construction rules for vehicles in TRO:2750

Note: This list shows only how/where design stats have changed.
Some of the designs with Fractional accounting were already underweight and resulted in no change to stats,
and some designs with Ferro Fibrous/Aluminum armor match values for the current design rules.

Mercury MCY-99: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Mongoose MON-66: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Hermes HER-1S: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Hussar HSR 200-D: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Thug THG-11E: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Highlander HGN-732: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

King Crab KGC-000: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Trident TRN-3T: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Swift SWF-606: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Rogue RGU-133E: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Gotha GTHA-500: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Gabriel: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Ripper: Fractional accounting, rounding down the FF, infantry bay added
that was described in fluff.

Beagle: Lost half a ton of armor from fractional accounting. Also hit by the FF change.

Nightshade: Fractional accounting.
Also note that 3050UU Record Sheets increased the speed of the TRO:2750 version
to get it updated to modern design rules. Newer variants tend to have the old 2750 MP's,
but with far greater payload.

Rotunda: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Cyrano: Ferro Fibrous rounding, and it must be noted the TRO:2750 version had
a power amplifier it didn't need, leading the 3050UU Record Sheet version to mount more armor.

Lighting: Fractional accounting (and the fact the design was slightly overweight) led to
the removal of the MG indicated in TRO:2750. Also hit with the FF change.

Kanga: Lost half a ton of MG ammo because 2750 version is overweight.

Thor Artillery Vehicle: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Marksman: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Burke: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Fury: Lost half a ton of armor, picks up an infantry bay (that wasn't mentioned in 2750
fluff). Origional design was under weight, some of which was lost with fractional accounting.

Puma: Mech Flamer switched with Vehicle flamer, correcting the number of heat sinks needed,
and fractional accounting lead to the loss of a ton and a half of armor.

Warships: Not even touching these. There have been a number of changes in Aerospace combat
and construction rules for large spacecraft, and will leave for someone more familiar with
them.

Will try to get around to TRO:3026 to finish off the fractional accounting business when I find the time.
As for the FF business, well that's gonna be a while.

[mbear]

mbear: The fractional accounting also effected vehicles from TRO:3026 as well.
but some of this is unstated gear (for the time) that has been brought up to
modern design rules. But let's start with a list for TRO:2750.

Changes from old construction rules for vehicles in TRO:2750

Note: This list shows only how/where design stats have changed.
Some of the designs with Fractional accounting were already underweight and resulted in no change to stats,
and some designs with Ferro Fibrous/Aluminum armor match values for the current design rules.

Mercury MCY-99: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Mongoose MON-66: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Hermes HER-1S: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Hussar HSR 200-D: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Thug THG-11E: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Highlander HGN-732: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

King Crab KGC-000: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Trident TRN-3T: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Swift SWF-606: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Rogue RGU-133E: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Gotha GTHA-500: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Gabriel: Ferro Aluminum rounding.

Ripper: Fractional accounting, rounding down the FF, infantry bay added
that was described in fluff.

Beagle: Lost half a ton of armor from fractional accounting. Also hit by the FF change.

Nightshade: Fractional accounting.
Also note that 3050UU Record Sheets increased the speed of the TRO:2750 version
to get it updated to modern design rules. Newer variants tend to have the old 2750 MP's,
but with far greater payload.

Rotunda: Ferro Fibrous rounding.

Cyrano: Ferro Fibrous rounding, and it must be noted the TRO:2750 version had
a power amplifier it didn't need, leading the 3050UU Record Sheet version to mount more armor.

Lighting: Fractional accounting (and the fact the design was slightly overweight) led to
the removal of the MG indicated in TRO:2750. Also hit with the FF change.

Kanga: Lost half a ton of MG ammo because 2750 version is overweight.

Thor Artillery Vehicle: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Marksman: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Burke: Fractional accounting leads to the loss of half a ton of FF armor.

Fury: Lost half a ton of armor, picks up an infantry bay (that wasn't mentioned in 2750
fluff). Origional design was under weight, some of which was lost with fractional accounting.

Puma: Mech Flamer switched with Vehicle flamer, correcting the number of heat sinks needed,
and fractional accounting lead to the loss of a ton and a half of armor.

Warships: Not even touching these. There have been a number of changes in Aerospace combat
and construction rules for large spacecraft, and will leave for someone more familiar with
them.

Will try to get around to TRO:3026 to finish off the fractional accounting business when I find the time.
As for the FF business, well that's gonna be a while.

Thanks for this Blackjack! I'll get it integrated when I have time.

[mbear]

Integrated Blackjack Jones' list of 'Mechs and vehicles that were affected by the changes to Fractional Accounting and Ferro-Fibrous Armor.

Also added a link to the Experimental TRO's product page.

[Blackjack Jones]

Mbear,

Here's the remaining fractional accounting and rules change cases from 3026 and 3025 (knew I was forgetting a source).  ::)
Once again, this is only for units with different game statistics from the rules changes.

Also a suggestion, as it might help to clarify that power amplifiers and cargo can still be assigned
in .1 ton intervals under Total warfare, Just not anything else.

Anyways, here's the list.

Ferret Light Scout VTOL: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Savanna Master: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Swift Wind: Communications Equipment reduced to 2 tons to match current rules,
half ton cargo area added, rest lost to fractional accounting.
J-27 Ordinance Transport: TRO:3039 updates the trailers to current rules.
Skulker: Exchanged .4 tons of sensors for cargo space.
Warrior: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Harasser: Lost half a ton of armor.
Mobile HQ: Lost half ton of cargo space.
Sea Skimmer Hydrofoil: Lost Half ton of armor.
Pegasus Scout Tank: Exchanged a ton of fluff sensors for .4 ton of cargo space.
Engineering Vehicle: "Equipment" swapped out for a Backhoe and Lift Hoist to
work with current rules. Half a ton of armor and a turret for the Backhoe added
with the remainder tonnage.
Drillson: Lost half a ton of armor.
Hi-Scout Drone Carrier: The drone rules and how they are constructed were reworked in
Tactical Operations. The Hi-Scout now carries five drones instead of the six indicated
in 3026. The hover drones are now heavier and slower than their 3026 versions.
Manticore: The engine is not calculated correctly in TRO: 3026. The correct version in
3039 reduces both ammo bins to compensate.
Mobile Long TOm Artillery: MG ammo and Communications Equipment increased to compensate for
the removal of fluff targeting and tracking equipment. Construction data for trailers in
TRO: 3039 matches the current trailer rules.
Monitor Naval Vessel: Jump Infantry bay reduced to 1.5 tons.
Rommel: Lost half a ton of armor.
Von Luckner: Lost half ton of MG ammo.
Schrek: Lost half a ton of armor.
Ontos: Lost half a ton of armor, gained a .2 ton cargo bay.

As for the rest of the FF list, if I stay this sick for the rest of the week, you might see it by the weekend.  [metalhealth]

[nckestrel]

I believe the power amplifiers were wrested very recently to make them half ton rounding as well.

[Sartris]

I believe the power amplifiers were wrested very recently to make them half ton rounding as well.

Unless there's some errata I'm unaware of

Unlike most other rounding conventions for tonnage-standard units, power amplifi ers round up to the nearest 0.1-ton increment, rather than the nearest 0.5-ton increment.

This basically becomes a de facto .5 rounding as there's not a lot you can do with .1 to .4 tons (cargo space?)

[mbear]

Mbear,

Here's the remaining fractional accounting and rules change cases from 3026 and 3025 (knew I was forgetting a source).  ::)
Once again, this is only for units with different game statistics from the rules changes.

Also a suggestion, as it might help to clarify that power amplifiers and cargo can still be assigned
in .1 ton intervals under Total warfare, Just not anything else.

Anyways, here's the list.

Ferret Light Scout VTOL: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Savanna Master: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Swift Wind: Communications Equipment reduced to 2 tons to match current rules,
half ton cargo area added, rest lost to fractional accounting.
J-27 Ordinance Transport: TRO:3039 updates the trailers to current rules.
Skulker: Exchanged .4 tons of sensors for cargo space.
Warrior: Lost quarter ton of fluff sensors.
Harasser: Lost half a ton of armor.
Mobile HQ: Lost half ton of cargo space.
Sea Skimmer Hydrofoil: Lost Half ton of armor.
Pegasus Scout Tank: Exchanged a ton of fluff sensors for .4 ton of cargo space.
Engineering Vehicle: "Equipment" swapped out for a Backhoe and Lift Hoist to
work with current rules. Half a ton of armor and a turret for the Backhoe added
with the remainder tonnage.
Drillson: Lost half a ton of armor.
Hi-Scout Drone Carrier: The drone rules and how they are constructed were reworked in
Tactical Operations. The Hi-Scout now carries five drones instead of the six indicated
in 3026. The hover drones are now heavier and slower than their 3026 versions.
Manticore: The engine is not calculated correctly in TRO: 3026. The correct version in
3039 reduces both ammo bins to compensate.
Mobile Long TOm Artillery: MG ammo and Communications Equipment increased to compensate for
the removal of fluff targeting and tracking equipment. Construction data for trailers in
TRO: 3039 matches the current trailer rules.
Monitor Naval Vessel: Jump Infantry bay reduced to 1.5 tons.
Rommel: Lost half a ton of armor.
Von Luckner: Lost half ton of MG ammo.
Schrek: Lost half a ton of armor.
Ontos: Lost half a ton of armor, gained a .2 ton cargo bay.

Thanks Blackjack! Things are a little crazy right now, but I'll get this integrated ASAP. :)

As for the rest of the FF list, if I stay this sick for the rest of the week, you might see it by the weekend.  [metalhealth]

That sucks. No pressure to do this or anything. If you're sick, get well.

[mbear]

Integrated BlackJack Jones' latest list of vehicles affected by fractional accounting.

[mbear]

Bump to get on first page as I'm seeing a lot of returning players questioning what's been happening.

[mbear]

*bump to front page*

[nckestrel]

Unless there's some errata I'm unaware of

This basically becomes a de facto .5 rounding as there's not a lot you can do with .1 to .4 tons (cargo space?)

* Power Amplifiers (p. 107)
Change: "power amplifiers round up to the nearest 0.1-ton increment, rather than the nearest 0.5-ton increment."
To: "power amplifiers round up to the nearest 0.5-ton increment."

But that really makes cargo a de facto .5 rounding, as there's then no reason to have anything but half ton increments left for cargo?  Unless somebody decides to leave the unit underweight just to have a non .5 cargo space?

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'm all for spare room being used as cargo.  Can you imagine five hundred kilos of beer in an APC?

[Peter Smith]

I'm all for spare room being used as cargo.  Can you imagine five hundred kilos of beer in an APC?

Not after going over rough terrain.

[Feenix74]

This is a very useful post for the returning player.

Could a admin-god/mod-demigod please sticky it? Cheers.

[mbear]

*bump to front page*

[Atlas3060]

Mechwarrior Tactics is being developed and bringing in beta testers.

[mbear]

Mechwarrior Tactics is being developed and bringing in beta testers.

Added info to post. Thanks!

[anime ninja]

Thanks for the tread, I have tossed over to a friend that is looking at getting back in after a decade.

I would love to have a better 3025 revised TRO, I looked at the 3039 TRO and it had too many Comstar mechs in it.

[SCC]

Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) lost a point of armor from it's CT if I understand the history correct.

While the Rommel has lost half a ton of armor the Patton has GAINED half a ton

[Ghost0402]

Thanks for the tread, I have tossed over to a friend that is looking at getting back in after a decade.

I would love to have a better 3025 revised TRO, I looked at the 3039 TRO and it had too many Comstar mechs in it.

TRO 3039 is the replacement for TRO 3025.  Since 3025 had a bunch of the unseen mechs in it, the Comstar mechs were added in a FASA era reprint.  Those Comstar mechs are in 3039, so are the original unseen stats, no art though, and the 3026 fighters, tanks and helos.  It is the culmination of everything other than dropships and jumpships that can be used in 3025 era play.



Edit:  This is an excellent excellent resource thread, definitely going to save the link for this one.

[Sartris]

Suggestion - add a note about the preseen (or whatever they're called) and their relation to the un/reseen

[mbear]

Suggestion - add a note about the preseen (or whatever they're called) and their relation to the un/reseen

I've never heard of the Preseen. Are you referring to the images in the XTRO:Primitives series?

Edit:  This is an excellent excellent resource thread, definitely going to save the link for this one.

Thanks for the tread, I have tossed over to a friend that is looking at getting back in after a decade.

Thanks! That was what I was hoping to hear when I wrote this thread.

I would love to have a better 3025 revised TRO, I looked at the 3039 TRO and it had too many Comstar mechs in it.

It's my (admittedly limited) understanding that the Unseen issue had cropped up at this point so they put in "downrated" versions of the Star League 'Mechs. These mechs were still in Comstar service and resurfaced in the Inner Sphere during the War of 3039. That way players would still have a large number of 'Mechs to play with, but they wouldn't have to mess around with Unseen issues. (I could be wrong.)

[Sartris]

I've never heard of the Preseen. Are you referring to the images in the XTRO:Primitives series?

The same. I was thinking a brief explanation of their place in the BTU would be helpful (representing a set of specific variants, not an en masse art retcon)

[mbear]

The same. I was thinking a brief explanation of their place in the BTU would be helpful (representing a set of specific variants, not an en masse art retcon)

Done.