did the helm tech eventually reach periphery?

[Izzy193]

This is something I need to check lore wise as I don't know if the periphery powers eventually got the helm memory core/helm tech, did copies of the core eventually reach the periphery? if so when roughly did it start happening?

Doing some factchecking beforehand, just in case I do something with the periphery and helm core as well as new Dallas memory core.

[AlphaMirage]

By periphery do you mean the Taurians and Canopians? or beyond them? The Taurians and Canopians joined the Capellans in the Trinity Alliance and got Helm Tech in the 3050s like most everyone else did. Now how widespread was it compared to the Great Houses, probably less so but their rival states weren't really drowning in it either. I would like to think that a bunch of the 3020s era stuff got purchased by the TDF and MAF when it was obsoleted in Great House service.

Beyond that I figure it was fairly limited except for the fact that the Great Houses could manufacture water purification and other necessary technologies again and those distant settlements probably were happy to have them at a discounted price after their own markets were served.

[Sartris]

it could have happened at any point after the initial discovery. MoC's medical tech had always been very advanced and they would have probably been able to capitalize on the non-military aspects of the core's data relatively quickly.

the nohow to actually produce the military gear seems like it came via the trinity alliance. we see advanced designs coming out of Detroit by the late 3050s. in other corners, the Word of Blake generously spread around tech to states like Circinus and the Marians during the 3060s.

[Doc Swift]

It even reached the Deep Periphery eventually.

[Starfury]

Much Savoir Faire, Helm Tech is everywhere. The various wars from 3050 on spread it to all major, medium, and eventually minor powers. The amount they can produce, however, varies widely.  By the Dark Ages you have Jihad and even Republic/Dark Ages tech being produced by the major and medium powers.  That doesn't include the mixed Clan/Periphery enclaves like the Scorpion Empire or the Raven Alliance who are churning out Clan mechs for their armies, or in the case of the Raven Alliance, for sale.  Filtvelt, Canopus, and the Taurians even have Clan Omnis...

That's one reason why I love the Jihad and after Ages so much. The Periphery isn't stuck with cast offs and 3025 introtech anymore.

[BrianDavion]

the periphary SEEMS to be one "era tech level" behind the Inner sphere, so in 3025 the periphary was still using introtech, by 3060 they'd begun to use star league era tech etc. and by 3145 they're using most inner sphere tech but unlike most of the great houses have yet to reach a point of being able to produce clantech (this is speaking about the "big 2" consisting of the MOC and TC) how much further they move is  open question, I could see them ending up reliant on the sea foxes and plateouing for a bit, particularly if it's decided by TPTB that they want to keep at least one path for "pure IS tech base" mechs

[Daryk]

In 3025, they had tech parity but not volume parity.

[Sartris]

fortunately for the periphery the current primitive rules weren't in place in the 80s or it would be a billion WSP-1s running around

[Daryk]

That wouldn't be a disadvantage for the Periphery because space lift WAS more limited... ;)

[rebs]

Proliferation of the Helm Memory Core tech has been retconned on highly noticeable scales before. 

Originally, it was said to be very rare in the IS still, even by 3050.  But then the realities of the Clan Invasion as well as the content of the Invasion Era novels contradicted this, and FASA had to backtrack majorly. 

I'm fine with that.  People are totally allowed to change their minds, game developers included. 

I figure that technology proliferation can be adjusted as needed for the storyline and game purposes.

And thank god for no hordes of primitive bug mechs.  They may have been largely trapped on the worlds they were made, but they would have changed the dynamic of raiding in some unfun ways.

[Hellraiser]

As noted, the Core itself spread over the years.

Grayson made it available to both FedCom nations right away & also gave a copy to Ricol.

Ricol gave that copy to Teddy IIRC some time after the Ronin War IIRC?  3034-3036

Teddy shared it w/ the KapCon partners sometime after that I think in the 40's.

The Cappies shared it w/ the TC & MoC in the 50's.

I think the OA got some at some point before the Raven's arrived but not on a ton of their units till the Jihad.

The Periphery certainly wasn't making TRO 3050 mechs in 3050 for sure.


I think the real issue is how quickly each nation digested that core & put the tech into production.

For example, the FC was researching Proto-DHS & CASE before the 4th SW IIRC, prior to even having the Helm Core, but, it took them till 3040-42? to figure out how to mass produce DHS internal to the Fusion Engine.

We have full on production grade ERPPCs on the Marauder-5D in 3047/8?.
But does that mean the ERPPC was common to the IS?   Not likely. 
The factory probably made less than 2 dozen a year so by 3050 you had what, 2 battalions of Mad-5Ds across the entire IS?
Most of them probably in A-Rated house units & not out to Mercs, Militias, or C-Grade commands.

And that is the real thing.  With 20K+ Mechs in the FC.  A few Hundred produced in the last 3 years before the Clan Invasion still only gives you, what, 2% upgraded status?
And this is the most advanced house in the IS.

So its not like it went from "Never seen" to "Everywhere".
Its more like, Oh, yes, there are some "small #" of examples out there but most of them are deployed at/near the factories or capitals with only the best units.

Heck, some Houses were still producing intro tech into the 3060's on some lines.
For example, the Stinger line on Coventry didn't get upgraded till 3067.

[glitterboy2098]

people tend to forget that the succession wars and tech decline had hurt the infrastructure as a whole, not just the products being built. it wasn't just factories for engines and guns that needed fixing, but also the factories that made the parts for maintaining other factories, and the refineries that made the materials needed to build components, and the mines that produced the raw materials that were sent to the refineries.  all of these were suffering degradation and reduced outputs due to the declining tech knowledge and lack of no-longer-producable spare parts. and most of those lower rungs in the production chain would need to be repaired and upgraded before you could even hope to build your first mass produced advanced laser. this is especially true for things like endosteel and ferrofiberous armor, which required entirely new factories with exotic production systems to be built. DHS needed all new factories able to produce the unique composites its lightweight radiators used. LBX AC's required special gun barrel alloys. etc.

building up an industrial production chain takes a lot of time, especially if you are doing it on a scale for mass production.

[Hellraiser]

building up an industrial production chain takes a lot of time, especially if you are doing it on a scale for mass production.

Agreed.
And even the upgrading of the factories wasn't "quick".
Some of the initial 3050 fluff IIRC had factories shut down for various amounts from 6-36 months or something like that for all the retooling & upgrading that needed to be done.

And while most of those upgrades were about Quality, there is also the Quantity aspect.
As far back as 3025 the Davions were having Lyran Engineers trying to increase Atlas output at their factory since it was capped at 5/year.
Post-Helm refits the Mariks took Vulcan production from 14/Year? to 20/Month?  or something like that.

The FedSuns had their Val factory going at 130/Year that blew out like every other production line in the IS because it was still operating at SLDF level capacity, but in turn, they didn't understand how to fix it if something broke.
I imagine getting other factories to increase output in addition to upgrade the mechs themselves was a huge endeavor & probably the only way the Houses were able to rebuild from Clan Invasion or post FCCW.