Author Topic: MotW: PPR Salamander  (Read 2715 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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MotW: PPR Salamander
« on: 22 November 2023, 16:14:14 »


In the mid 3050s, the Federated Commonwealth was in serious need of more mechs to fight the Clans.  Up stood the Lyran Commonwealth's largest manufacturer, Defiance Industries.  Unlike the Tempest that I covered last time, there's no indication that the Salamander was in the works prior to the Clan Invasion, and Defiance canonically has shown the ability to turn mechs from concept to production in a very short time frame.

Regardless, in 3055 the PPR-5S Salamander walked off the assembly line and made a big hit.  Similar in many ways to the AWS-9M Awesome, it too is an 80 ton assault mech that moves 4/6 thanks to a Pitban 320 XL with 15.5 tons of standard armor plating providing the maximum protection for its size.  However, unlike the Awesome, the Salamander keeps the torso armor mainly to the front, making it better protected against enemies in front of it at a heightened vulnerability to backstabbers, with 42/8 and 28/6 for the center and side torsos, respectively.  The arms and legs carry 26 and 34 points.

Firepower wise, it also has some resemblance to the Awesome thanks to carrying three of the same main guns arranged in the left torso, right torso, and left arm.  But that's largely where the similarities end, because the Salamander uses Endo-Steel to save enough mass for it to pack three LRM-20s, with a total of nine tons of ammo between them, split three ways between the side torsos and left arm.  CASE protects the torsos in the event of an ammo explosion but the XL engine means that the mech is out of commission in the event of an explosion anyway.  A pair of medium lasers sit in the center torso, more to keep enemies that get close honest than to actually provide real defense.  The stock 20 heat dissipation provided by its internal double heatsinks is sufficient for keeping it cool except for the rare occasions when it alpha strikes.

As soon as the Salamander hit the field, there were talks about variants, the first of which showed up a year later, the PPR-5T.  Downgrading the LRM-20s to 15s and the medium lasers to smalls while losing three tons of ammo and some of the armor, the mech upgrades the engine to an enormous 400XL for the ability to move 5/8.

The next two models introduced, the 6S and 6T, showed up in 3058 and 3060 and both try to improve the mech's short-range firepower at the expense of the left arm missile launcher, while restoring the armor back up to the same level as the 5S.  Both models change out the center torso medium lasers for medium pulse lasers, with the 6S adding an SRM 6 to the left arm and upgrading all three missile launchers with Artemis IV.  The LRM ammo is a frankly boggling 8 tons.  The 6T, meanwhile, sticks a Large Pulse Laser into the left arm and adds four additional double heatsinks while retaining only 6 tons of ammo for its LRM pods.

Showing up in 3064 during the height of the FedCom Civil War, the 7S model sought to improve the Salamander's mobility and durability at the same time.  Dropping half a ton of armor (causing the removal of 1 point of armor from each forward location aside from the head), the LRM pods are downgraded to 15s but uses Artemis IV to insure that the average number of missiles isn't decreased too much. The medium lasers are upgraded to ER models.  All this weight savings goes into swapping the engine out for a light model to insure that now it can survive an ammo explosion, and four jump jets are added to let it maneuver better in built-up terrain.

The last variant didn't show up until the late Republic Era in 3111.  The 7T dumps all the weaponry of the 5S and even the CASE.  An XL Gyro is used to add additional weight savings in order to install two Extended LRM 15s and one Extended LRM 10, all tied to a Boosted C3 Slave unit.  Two tons of ammo for the 10 and six tons for the 15s insures that it can keep firing for some time, but it completely lacks secondary armaments.

So, how do you use a Salamander?  That's pretty simple- you find a good spot and begin raining missiles on target.  It's not a dueling mech, so don't deploy it by itself and coordinate with your other units.  You really want to have something to act as a bodyguard, since at close range a Salamander goes from "undergunned" (6S and 6T) to "completely helpless (5T and 7T).  Most variants have deep enough ammo bins that you can afford to take some different munition types if they're available, and it's great for IDF work if you have a spotter you can use.

How do you fight a Salamander?  That's also pretty simple- get in its face.  Or better yet, get in its rear where its thin torso armor makes it extra vulnerable- all it can bring to bear in its rear arc is the left-arm weapon, which isn't going to be effective if it's an LRM pod and you're close.  Just mind the fact that while it may be lacking in close-range weapons, it's still an 80 ton mech so watch out for physicals.  Obviously, AMS is highly effective on this mech, though with three missile launchers it's quite good at overwhelming a single AMS unit and pummeling you anyway- having more than one AMS is better.  In later eras, Reactive and Ballistic Reinforced armor are both highly effective against it as well.

And that's the Salamander in a nutshell.  I've used the mech a few times and it's made a good showing of itself.  I'm sure that you all have thoughts, opinions, or stories about it as well.
« Last Edit: 22 November 2023, 16:15:57 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #1 on: 22 November 2023, 17:24:51 »
Thanks for the article! The Salamander is certainly a one-note 'Mech, at least in it's first variant, but it also seems very effective. And I find that when using a large number of units at the same time, having a few you don't really have to think about the most effective tactic can be very nice
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #2 on: 22 November 2023, 18:03:01 »
The Salamander and the other FedCom assaults in TRO: 3050 do illustrate a the earliest strategy for dealing with the Clans; 1.) Direct Fire Support with Gauss (Gunslinger, Cerberus) 2.) Indirect Fire Support with LRMs (Salamander, Naginata) 3.) Get up close and personal (Berserker)

While I personally have never had luck with LRMs, I always like the Salamander for it's simplistic "Here, have ALL the LRMs!" approach much like the Naginata and Longbow.

I also like the look, like a more humanoid King Crab.   
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #3 on: 22 November 2023, 19:27:03 »
I can't help but spot some art design similarities with Achilles' robot, from the movie Robot Jox....


But also the upper torso plating of a Cerberus. The feet of a Tempest/Highlander, and the right hand of an Archer. From the pieces you'd think ugly Frankenmech, but the end result looks sexy.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #4 on: 23 November 2023, 01:51:58 »
But also the upper torso plating of a Cerberus. The feet of a Tempest/Highlander, and the right hand of an Archer. From the pieces you'd think ugly Frankenmech, but the end result looks sexy.

I get “Hips of the Kintaro” vibes, too.

The base model seems like a “assault” Archer in a lot of ways.

The 5T seems like it’d been fun with that level of maneuverability but also seems extremely vulnerable.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #5 on: 23 November 2023, 02:16:18 »
I just recently picked one of these up.

I really like the cut if the 7S jib. It sacrifices very little in damage (on average, its max obviously goes down) for a very real improvement in survivability and mobility. The JJ aren’t as helpful for a missileboat as other styles of mech, but still offer a good amount.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #6 on: 23 November 2023, 13:26:35 »
The -5T arms like a nasty surprise to slip into a well-off cavalry, skirmisher, or even heavy recon unit. That's a lot more missile support than most people expect when they think of such formations, and when everyone else in your force is that fast or faster, the lack of close-range defenses isn't as big a problem because help is never very far away.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #7 on: 24 November 2023, 10:32:46 »
Thank you for the article, it was a really interesting insight to the Mech.

Well I do think it's not exactly a mech for like one off games where you're trying to do, it certainly good as a support machine.

I'm just surprised that we haven't seen a clan variant of it yet, that would be totally nasty. And it's also surprising maybe because I haven't played with the weight of certain launchers, I think it would be interesting to see MMLs mounted on this thing.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #8 on: 24 November 2023, 13:43:48 »
Well, I would point out that Defiance Industries does produce Clanspec ER lasers and LRMs...
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #9 on: 26 November 2023, 03:50:47 »
Obvious parallels with the longbow, which iirc wasn't in a tro at the time (was in record sheets 4 though.)

Uses DHS and XL to combine the good armor and speed from the 2 early longbows, and add 10 missiles while they were at it.

Lots of ammo. enough to carry all the alternate ammo.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2023, 17:36:11 by Greatclub »

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #10 on: 26 November 2023, 11:06:06 »
The Salamander. When you need more missiles on target in a survivable package, and don't want to wait for LRM carriers...

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #11 on: 26 November 2023, 15:32:25 »
If they could, i'd have loved seing a version that dropped to a standard 240 engine (so no xl), and added Artimis to all of the 3 LRMS..
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #12 on: 26 November 2023, 15:34:07 »
If they could, i'd have loved seing a version that dropped to a standard 240 engine (so no xl), and added Artimis to all of the 3 LRMS..

That's could be a good Awesome 8R mod.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #13 on: 26 November 2023, 21:55:43 »
If they could, i'd have loved seing a version that dropped to a standard 240 engine (so no xl), and added Artimis to all of the 3 LRMS..

Don’t think that’s possible without dropping the speed or using Clan missile pods.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #14 on: 26 November 2023, 22:51:52 »
Or taking the entire discussion to Fan Designs... :police:
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #15 on: 27 November 2023, 01:16:19 »
Yeah, wasn’t going to discuss it further here.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #16 on: 27 November 2023, 02:50:33 »
Does anyone know what PPR might have stood for? I've always assumed that they changed the name before release, along with a few others like the Hollander.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #17 on: 27 November 2023, 08:29:24 »
I wonder if there will be a version that adds MMLs at some point. Sort of a Lyran Hawkwolf.

« Last Edit: 27 November 2023, 15:43:35 by mbear »
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #18 on: 27 November 2023, 12:05:29 »
But also the upper torso plating of a Cerberus. The feet of a Tempest/Highlander, and the right hand of an Archer. From the pieces you'd think ugly Frankenmech, but the end result looks sexy.
Maybe that's how Defiance designed it so quickly; they modified parts from existing designs for much of the basics.  (Granted, most of the mentioned designs aren't built by Defiance, but with their money I'm sure they can acquire some to reverse engineer.)




It's not important, or even canon, but in my head when I think of the Salamander, I always think of Marshal Stephan Cooper, CO of the Davion Assault Guards in the FCCW.  We don't actually know what he piloted during the FCCW, but follow my logic here: he began his career in a Valkyrie, made his bones as a cavalry officer, then when he went to the Assault Guards, he "began to coax unheard-of maneuverability out of his unit".  So, what fast assault mech comes to mind for a guy who got his start in an LRM support mech?  PPR-5T, of course!  Maybe a 7S late in the conflict (they weren't available until '64, and presumably weren't being issued to Victor-loyal commands).  Also, in Isle of the Blessed, Cooper's successor Dixon Zibler pilots a Salamander.  It's actually a kind of terrifying demonstration of the miracles of lostech, when you think about it: the Salamander-5T weighs 2.67x of what a Valkyrie does, carrier 4.5x the LRM tubes...and runs just as fast.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #19 on: 27 November 2023, 12:42:18 »
Are there any other Inner Sphere mechs that can throw more than 40 LRMs while moving 5/8?  I'm really not sure if there are, even if Clantech is involved.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #20 on: 27 November 2023, 12:51:01 »
Are there any other Inner Sphere mechs that can throw more than 40 LRMs while moving 5/8?  I'm really not sure if there are, even if Clantech is involved.

The Trebuchet -7R uses an XXL engine and supercharger to move 7/11(14) with 3 Clan-tech LRM-15. But until the arrival of that monstrosity, I think the Salamander is king of the cavalry archers. And even after, it's far more durable and cheaper (here's something seldom said about a Mech using a 400XL)
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #21 on: 27 November 2023, 15:04:59 »
Doesn't the Longbow, with its paired LRM-20s AND paired LRM-5s?
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #22 on: 27 November 2023, 15:10:50 »
They were specifically asking about 5/8 movers.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #23 on: 09 January 2024, 12:19:53 »
I've never used a Salamander, but I do like assault weight missile boats so I should probably give one a go some day.  It would definitely be an upgrade compared to your typical 4/6 moving Longbow variant.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #24 on: 09 January 2024, 14:57:13 »
I've never used a Salamander, but I do like assault weight missile boats so I should probably give one a go some day.  It would definitely be an upgrade compared to your typical 4/6 moving Longbow variant.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #25 on: 09 January 2024, 15:17:58 »
Semi-guided LRM ammo would help to contribute someone's unfortunate day going badly.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #26 on: 09 January 2024, 21:31:06 »
I wonder if there will be a version that adds MMLs at some point. Sort of a Lyran Hawkwolf.

They have pretty good access to Clan LRMs so I would guess we'll probably see one of those first.


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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #27 on: 10 January 2024, 04:54:25 »
The Salamander ages into the Jihad better than most longbows and archers. No Artemis to become dead weight as ECM proliferates everywhere, and the extravagant amount of ammo means even alt ammo like augmented thunder (half normal shots/ton) isn't out of the question.

It isn't the 3055 I most want plastic, but it's certainly up there. The current mini needs some arm work.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #28 on: 10 January 2024, 10:44:55 »
The Salamander ages into the Jihad better than most longbows and archers. No Artemis to become dead weight as ECM proliferates everywhere, and the extravagant amount of ammo means even alt ammo like augmented thunder (half normal shots/ton) isn't out of the question.

It isn't the 3055 I most want plastic, but it's certainly up there. The current mini needs some arm work.

There's a few '55ers that I'd like to see get new sculpts, but yeah, this is one of the higher-ranked ones for me in terms of need (along with the Naginata's wonky feet and the Daimyo's... ah, everything...). Great Mech, awful mini. I've avoided it for years as a result, but always have wanted to add them to  my shelves. With the upgrades we got over the years to other Mechs in that book like the Fireball and Huron Warrior, I'm optimistic that a Salamander resculpt (plastic or metal) will look spiffy.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #29 on: 10 January 2024, 17:33:35 »
There are a lot of good mechs in 3055 with terrible art - I do hope we get new sculpts eventually.

I've actually always thought the Salamander looked okay, even with the original art.

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #30 on: 10 January 2024, 21:24:09 »
There's a few '55ers that I'd like to see get new sculpts, but yeah, this is one of the higher-ranked ones for me in terms of need (along with the Naginata's wonky feet and the Daimyo's... ah, everything...). Great Mech, awful mini. I've avoided it for years as a result, but always have wanted to add them to  my shelves. With the upgrades we got over the years to other Mechs in that book like the Fireball and Huron Warrior, I'm optimistic that a Salamander resculpt (plastic or metal) will look spiffy.

The Salamander holds up a lot better than the Lego Naginata or the ambulatory potato that is the Anvil.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #31 on: 11 January 2024, 00:27:54 »
I often wonder, with the advent of MRM's, did the designers ever think to make a variant of the salamander loaded out WITH MRMS?
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #32 on: 11 January 2024, 01:19:08 »
Doubt it.  MRMs were never popular outside of the Combine.
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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #33 on: 11 January 2024, 19:05:01 »
I wanna hear that sales pitch.

"I think we could move a lot of Salamanders if we filled them with a Kurita weapon that works poorly and none of our customers like!"

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Re: MotW: PPR Salamander
« Reply #34 on: 11 January 2024, 19:07:03 »
I've actually always thought the Salamander looked okay, even with the original art.

The drawings are ok. The mini doesn't do that art justice (which probably would have been just the original 3055 when the mini came out, with the berserker and salamander fighting being the better of the two) 

I don't think even kurita like MRM, especially before Apollo came out.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2024, 01:09:30 by Greatclub »