Design Challenge: Naval Arms Race in the Stone Era

[Liam's Ghost]

Honestly, my first instinct would be dropships, but Niops kinda feels like a special case.

Also I feel like any political power that has a significant portion of its population living on asteroids has extra incentive to develop its spaceborn infrastructure.

[Cannonshop]

So, realistically, what would a polity of 20 million on 3 planets and asteroids be able to field?  DropShips?  Maybe a JumpShip of some type?

Harsh Language, maybe.  maybe. as in 'if they're suicidally brave' they can field harsh language.  look at the proportions for everyone else.

[Lagrange]

Harsh Language, maybe.  maybe. as in 'if they're suicidally brave' they can field harsh language.  look at the proportions for everyone else.

C-bills per 3130 population from Sarna of existing proposals seems to be:

MH, Centralla: ??
Tamarind, Avanti: .23
CC, Confederation: .094
DC, Kirishima II: .028
FS, Monolisk: .022
LC, Raider: .009

Which would put a population of 20M at "maybe a pair of second hand ASF". Of course, Fasanomics is very evident here---US defense spending is ~3.2% of GDP and the GDP of 20M people might be 10B (at an ungenerous 500C-bills/head), suggesting something more like 320M for all-up defense spending.  If a third of that goes into the "fleet", there's a little wiggle room to work with.

[Giovanni Blasini]

C-bills per 3130 population from Sarna of existing proposals seems to be:

MH, Centralla: ??
Tamarind, Avanti: .23
CC, Confederation: .094
DC, Kirishima II: .028
FS, Monolisk: .022
LC, Raider: .009

Which would put a population of 20M at "maybe a pair of second hand ASF". Of course, Fasanomics is very evident here---US defense spending is ~3.2% of GDP and the GDP of 20M people might be 10B (at an ungenerous 500C-bills/head), suggesting something more like 320M for all-up defense spending.  If a third of that goes into the "fleet", there's a little wiggle room to work with.

There's probably a bit more wiggle room than that. There are a thread or two that discuss average income in the Inner Sphere as about 10,000 C-Bills/person, with one particular book, Handbook House Steiner, being a bit above the average at 17,000 C-Bills/person.

Let's go ahead and assume that, since Niops is a recovering world in the near Periphery, we're only seeing 5,000 C-Bills/person on average, and that defense spending is 1% of GDP.  That would give an approximate budget of (5000 * 20,000,000 * 0.01) = $1 billion C-Bill equivalents.

Niops is primarily supported by germanium mining, which gives them enough income to support the system, but which also means they need some space assets, specifically cargo ships and, presumably, tugs. 

Additionally, also have roughly a brigade's worth of forces, consisting of 1 'Mech regiment, and 3 infantry/armor regiments, and they need a way to transport those forces between worlds, though most of that can also presumably be done with bulk cargo transports - it's only when you need to hot drop to stop an attack that you need a true 'Mech or vehicle carrier.

OK, back to budget.  Give a third of that budget to the "Navy".  Then, allocate a third of it to procurement.  That puts their procurement budget at around 111 million/year, which doesn't get you far.  Ships like the cargo ships could come from your civilian spending, and your handful of combat transports could be budgeted out of a combined ground and naval budget or, alternatively, may simply be old ships previously procured and already in use, with only annual maintenance budgets needing to be accounted for.  Let's call that approximately 111 million the navy's patrol ship procurement budget, just for sake of sanity.

Figure with that, you could aquire, say, a single Saturn Patrol Ship per annum, or an armed Manatee, though that's more a 'Mech transport, unless you switch those to fighter cubes.  More expensive assault DropShips would have slower rates of procurement:

• Saturn: 1 per year
• Manatee: 1 per year
• Trojan Blockade Runner: 4 per 5 years (not really a combat ship, but it could share a platform with Danais cargo ships, and do cargo work itself
• Leopard CV (2581): 2 per 3 years
• Leopard Pocket WarShip: 2 per 5 years
• Intruder (2655): 2 per 5 years
• Quetzalcoutl Carrier JumpShips: 2 per 5 years
• Union Pocket WarShip: 1 per 3 years
• Pentagon (2540): 1 per 3 years
• Pentagon Pocket WarShip: 2 per 7 years
• Model 96 Elephant: 2 per 11 years

OK, with that in mind, I've got two ideas, which I'll post separately.

[Daryk]

On that list, I think I'd go for the Carrier JumpShips every time... ;)

[Giovanni Blasini]

OK, keeping that 111 million/year budget in mind, that gives me two ideas.  First up would be a modernized Saturn Patrol Craft, which would look something like this:

Code: [Select]

Saturn Patrol Ship 3150 Refit
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 1,200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3150
Mass: 1,200
Battle Value: 2,157
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-D
Cost: 114,363,200 C-bills

Fuel: 100 tons (5,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Heat Sinks: 51
Structural Integrity: 15

Armor
    Nose: 165
    Sides: 145/145
    Aft: 125

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (99.5 tons)       2 Doors   

Ammunition:
    1,200 rounds of Machine Gun ammunition (6 tons)

Escape Pods: 2
Life Boats: 4
Crew:  3 officers, 5 enlisted/non-rated, 7 gunners, 2 passengers, 21 marines

Notes: Mounts 32.5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                          Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                    Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (10 Heat)
1 Large Laser                  8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Small Laser                  2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
2 Machine Gun                  0    0(4)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (10 Heat)
1 Large Laser                  8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Small Laser                  2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
2 Machine Gun                  0    0(4)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
RS/LS Aft (10 Heat)
1 Large Laser                  8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Small Laser                  2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
2 Machine Gun                  0    0(4)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
Aft (10 Heat)
1 Large Laser                  8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Small Laser                  2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
2 Machine Gun                  0    0(4)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)

Features the following design quirks: Improved Communications, Atmospheric Flight Instability

You'll note the use of machine guns and small lasers for point defense.  That's because standard AMS is expensive, and laser AMS is even moreso.  The prototype AC/5s of the original were swapped for large lasers, which actually are slightly cheaper than the standard AC/5, bringing the price down further.  With only 51 standard heat sinks, heat management gets to be interesting, but still viable: you've only got six large lasers to worry about plus your small lasers.

Modernizing the ship freed up quite a bit of tonnage, enough to increase the onboard marines to a full platoon of 21, while also increasing the cargo to 99.5 tons.  There was still tonnage left, so I decided to go with adding a tug adapter, rather than capital weaponry, since that was cheaper.  If you prefer, a single SCL/2 would bring the price up to 120.78 million, close enough to our annual budget that Niops could theoretically procure one per year.  A single Piranha subcapital missile launcher would also fit, and put the price tag at 113.5 million.  Similarly, the switch from primitive to standard armor increased the protection by nearly 50%, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Overall, I like how this one came out, and given the Saturn used the Vulture's art, there's even a DropShip mini available for it (though it'll be a bit big).

The other idea I came up with was a Manatee CV: nearly everything is left stock on this one, except the 'Mechs are swapped for ASFs, and the cargo is reduced by 300 tons to add two more ASFs.  I've also tacked a couple small lasers on per arc to handle point-defense duties on the cheap:

Code: [Select]

Manatee CV
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 1,900 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3125
Mass: 1,900
Battle Value: 1,553
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-D-D
Cost: 116,174,800 C-bills

Fuel: 135 tons (5,400)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 129
Structural Integrity: 10

Armor
    Nose: 80
    Sides: 70/70
    Aft: 60

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (66.5 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 2
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  2 officers, 3 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 12 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 15 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:            Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)      Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (14 Heat)
2 Medium Laser  14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser
RS/LS Fwd (16 Heat)
2 Medium Laser  14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser
2 Small Laser    2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
RS/LS Aft (16 Heat)
2 Medium Laser  14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser
2 Small Laser    2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
Aft (14 Heat)
2 Medium Laser  14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser


No tug adapter here because there wasn't the tonnage to work with.  In a lot of ways, this is probably a more viable idea, since it's got a bit more reach thanks to the fighters, but while it's only 116 million C-Bills itself, you've also got to procure those six fighters, and it doesn't have the mass to support long-term patrols, with only 135 tons of fuel and 66.5 tons of cargo.  On the other hand, it's a Manatee, with 'Mech carrying and cargo carrying versions out there as well, so the Niops Association could basically build one DropShip for all their military needs, and just refit the cargo area based on what any one ship will be doing ('Mech carrier, CV, bulk transport, etc.).  While one doesn't exist in canon, a combined-arms transport that holds vehicles and infantry would also be fully possible.

Of course, the biggest issue with either of these is that they're basically speed bumps.  In a bigger navy, that might be fine, given they've got bigger assets to respond with once the enemy force has gone over the speed bump.  For a smaller nation like Niops, they are the bigger assets: between 3125 and 3150, the beginning of the ilClan era, you're looking at being able to procure 25 of these at most or up to, say, eight larger assault ships like a Union PWS or a Pentagon.

On that list, I think I'd go for the Carrier JumpShips every time... ;)

I was just typing up a reply, but, yeah, that's a valid argument: over 25 years from the start of our exercise to the beginning of the ilClan era, Niops would be able to field 10 Quetzalcoutl class JumpShips, while presumably building regular Scouts for civilian use.  That's 12 ASF per Quetzalcoutl, with FTL transport capabilities for them, for a total of 120 ASFs on 10 hulls.  With the Manatees, that's 25 DropShips and 150 ASF, but no FTL capabilities, so no quick response.  That may not be as big a deal in a system as small as Niops, but it's still worth noting.

[Daryk]

That Manatee is pretty much exactly how I imagined it! :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

That Manatee is pretty much exactly how I imagined it! :)

So you're voting for Manatee over Quetzalcoatl, at least for new construction?  Maybe save on the latter by buying broken JumpShips on the open market and converting them?

[Daryk]

I think the Q would have higher priority, but some of the Manatees should be built too... :)

[Smegish]

Cannonshop: While you are correct that it is probably best to be building corvettes to start with, the two factions that aren't at least have political and military reasons why they aren't. Unless we are wiping all pre-existing WarShips from the map for this exercise of course.

The Capellans are buying or building under license Centellas for the small ship role and are already taking aim at the Republic again, who on top of their new corvette construction (Whatever it is) also have an existing navy even if it is all in mothballs. The Kuritans on the other hand have 2 clans on their borders, one of which is renowned for being very navy focused and the other has a Leviathan II floating around. And while a Lev II has a cost of "You've got to be kidding me?!?!?!?" C-Bills, any ship we've published so far except for the Confederation and Kiri II stupid enough to pick a fight with one won't do much more than scratch the paint. Not saying a Confederation-class would win that fight mano-a-mano, but the Lev would at least know it was in a fight rather than going over a speed bump.

[Daryk]

I'm pretty sure the Kuritans wouldn't bat an eye at using nukes, though...

[Retry]

Even back when the Inner Sphere actually had a non-trivial amount of Warships, the correct response to a Leviathan was nuclear armaggedon.

[Hellraiser]

Even back when the Inner Sphere actually had a non-trivial amount of Warships, the correct response to a Leviathan was nuclear armaggedon.

Lets be honest,  short of an SLDF-Line Squadron, EVERYONE's response to a Leviathan is Nukes.

[Liam's Ghost]

Lets be honest,  short of an SLDF-Line Squadron, EVERYONE's response to a Leviathan is Nukes.

Even with nukes your best play is to avoid a Leviathan II for as long as possible while you destroy the rest of their forces.

Assuming the Leviathan II is well supplied and and competently commanded, it will likely use its docking collars to carry escort ships that can augment its own point defense (because they know just as well as you do what killing a Leviathan entails). Even if it only has a few Vanirs riding herd, having them all stacked up together makes it effectively immune to nuclear attack for as long as the ammunition lasts. And depending on a variety of factors, that can require many dozens or even hundreds of missile attacks to do (the Leviathan's own point defense is good for around 200 shots per arc, a a Vanir is good for around 40, and just one effectively doubles the capabilities of the point defenses in that hex)

So you could theoretically be expending hundreds upon hundreds of missiles trying to get through its point defense. Unless you've destroyed so much of the rest of the Ghost Bear fleet that they have to reallocate the Leviathan's escorts and fighters to plug the holes you made.

Either way, killing it with conventional gunfire may actually be easier than nuking it.

[FastConcentrate8]

Even with nukes your best play is to avoid a Leviathan II for as long as possible while you destroy the rest of their forces.

Assuming the Leviathan II is well supplied and and competently commanded, it will likely use its docking collars to carry escort ships that can augment its own point defense (because they know just as well as you do what killing a Leviathan entails). Even if it only has a few Vanirs riding herd, having them all stacked up together makes it effectively immune to nuclear attack for as long as the ammunition lasts. And depending on a variety of factors, that can require many dozens or even hundreds of missile attacks to do (the Leviathan's own point defense is good for around 200 shots per arc, a a Vanir is good for around 40, and just one effectively doubles the capabilities of the point defenses in that hex)

So you could theoretically be expending hundreds upon hundreds of missiles trying to get through its point defense. Unless you've destroyed so much of the rest of the Ghost Bear fleet that they have to reallocate the Leviathan's escorts and fighters to plug the holes you made.

Either way, killing it with conventional gunfire may actually be easier than nuking it.

Who says that the nukes will be Missile Launced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dsQPQRjeow

The Dragon remembers its Heroes.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Quetzalcoatl (Scout) class Patrol Cutter

Overview

The naval arms race that flourished across the Inner Sphere and Periphery starting in 3125 spared few nations, as everyone faced the eventuality that they would need to respond to the actions of potentially hostile neighbors.  Even the Niops Association, with their limited population, three worlds bound in a single star system, and svelte military budget, found themselves forced to respond to the naval expansions of their Marian and former-and-once-again Free Worlds League.

Unable to afford the ruinously-expensive WarShips of their Inner Sphere neighbors, the Niops Association was forced to turn to a more modest solution, one employed by the Capellan Confederation centuries earlier: damaged Scout-class JumpShips converted into ad hoc fighter carriers.

Capabilities

As with the original Quetzalcoatl, the Niopian Quetzalcoatl Patrol Cutter is the result of older Scout-class JumpShips with sufficient damage to their KF drives or docking collars to render them unsafe or incapable of carrying DropShips through a hyperspace jump.  Like the Capellans who pioneered the concept, the Association, initially with the assistance of Republic engineers, would strip the docking collar from the vessel to free up extra mass for conversion to a patrol craft.

Unlike the original pure fighter carrier, the Patrol Cutter was envisioned from the beginning as a multipurpose craft.  Six aerospace fighters form the core of its offensive power, though a single SCL/2 subcapital laser and bare handful of large laser turrets serve as a secondary defense.  For last-ditch defenses, eight laser anti-missile systems have been fitted to the Quetzalcoatl as well.

To supplement its role as a patrol cutter, a single platoon of marines, cross-trained in both customs and search-and-rescue procedures, are embbarked on the Quetzalcoatl Patrol Cutter.  One of the cutter's two small craft bays carries a single boarding craft, while the other carries a long-range shuttle, such as a K-1 DropShuttle.  Crew-level berthings for both fighter and shuttle crews, as well as the marines, allows the cutter to maintain longer patrols than would otherwise be possible, allowing a greater portion of the ship's nearly 330 tons of cargo to be reserved for fuel and supplies for the aerospace fighters.

As the primary jump-capable asset of the Niops Association Militia, it was expected that Quetzalcoatl Patrol Cutters would find themselves frequently responding to emergencies amongst the asteroid belt of the Niops system.  To that end, a number of emergency berths, as well as limited surgical facilities, have been included aboard the Patrol Cutter to provide triage and surgical treatment for the greviously wounded.


Deployment

Procurement of the Quetzalcoatl Patrol Cutter has been slow, hampered by both the need to locate and purchase suitable donor JumpShips, as well as the efforts needed to convert them.  However, they have proven invaluable in both serving as essentially mobile picket stations at the Niops system's primary jump points, as well as fast response for emergencies in the system's asteroid belts among germanium mining operations.

To that end, the Association has been working diligently to build a yard capable of construction of both the Quetzalcoatl and her Scout-class JumpShip progenitor, along with continuing production of the Danais class fighter carrier, which also serves as part of the Niops system's naval defenses.

Code: [Select]

Quetzalcoatl-Scout JumpShip Patrol Cutter
Mass: 90,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3125
Mass: 90,000
Battle Value: 1,575
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-F
Cost: 293,040,760 C-bills

Fuel: 52 tons (520)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 3
Heat Sinks: 91
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 6
    Fore Sides: 7/7
    Aft Sides: 7/7
    Aft: 6

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (327.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  6 officers, 28 enlisted/non-rated, 3 gunners, 22 bay personnel, 25 passengers, 21 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    1 MASH Equipment (4 theaters)
    2 Space Mine Dispenser
50 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (28 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Laser /2  28   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (22 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Laser            8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (22 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Laser            8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       



[Giovanni Blasini]

Danais CV Carrier DropShip

Overview

While the Niops Association worked to procure Scout-class JumpShips of dubious quality for conversion into Quetzalcoatl Patrol Cutters, the Niops Association Militia and, perhaps more importantly, their Board of Chairpersons, recognized a lower-budget option would also be necessary to supplement the jump-capable cutters, preferrably one that could be produced domestically in a shorter period than was projected for the JumpShips.  To that end, they turned to an ubiquitous civilian transport DropShip: the Danais class.

Capabilities

Recognizing the costs of armed military DropShips could escalate beyond anything they could reasonably procure in a cost-conscious fashion, the NAM Navy would choose to convert the Danais to a carrier DropShip, intending to allow its aerospace fighters to handle combat.  To that end, the Danais CV would be nearly unarmed, with only a pair of laser anti-missile systems fore and aft to protect the ship.

The "business end", then, of the Danais CV is in its twelve aerospace fighters.  These provide stand-off offensive capabilities beyond that which standard DropShip weapons would be able to provide.

Deployment

With the aid of Interstellar Expeditions, the Niops Association was able to procure sufficient tooling to begin production of the Danais class domestically.  This domestic production is, in turn, divided between civilian use, and military conversions, including more heavily-armed "Trojan" conversions used by NAM ground forces in place of the its militarized cousin, the Union class.  While this would in theory slow procurement, the availability has matched up well with the Militia's limited budget.

Code: [Select]

Danais CV
Type: Civilian Spheriod
Mass: 3,200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3125
Mass: 3,200
Battle Value: 1,184
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 107,408,000 C-bills

Fuel: 250 tons (7,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 31
Structural Integrity: 7

Armor
    Nose: 105
    Sides: 105/105
    Aft: 81

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (12)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (244.0 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 4
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  1 officer, 3 enlisted/non-rated, 24 bay personnel, 24 passengers

Notes: Mounts 23 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (14 Heat)
2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
Aft (14 Heat)
2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         


[Daryk]

An SCL/2?  An SCL/1 would give better range.  If you're OK with the shorter range, an SCL/3 is only 50 tons more... :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

I bounced back and forth between the two, and even spending another 100 tons to mount two SCL/1s, one in each fore-side, but felt it took away too much in other areas.  The SCL/2 seemed a good compromise on damage versus mass.

I might go back to a single SCL/1 though since it has the added benefit of farther reach, making it vaguely feasible to use it for orbital bombardment, which would be absolutely hilarious, and since it would let me put on another 50 tons of cargo.

[Daryk]

54 if you reduce the heat sinks too... ;D

[Giovanni Blasini]

Think I’m already at the minimum number of heat sinks.  I’ll have to check when the big ball of burning fusion plasma is back in the sky and I’m actually fully awake.

Next question: does the SCL actually add utility or should I skip it for something else?  When I added it, I was thinking akin to the 25mm/57mm main gun on our wet navy cutters.

Also, at one point I had also gone with ARTS fighter bays on both the Quetzalcoatl and the Danais, with the intent of using either Mk 20 SwiftStar or Mk 30 BlackWasp drone fighters, to save on crewing, but the lack of ATACS as an option on a JumpShip, along with the extra weight, made me hesitant.  Thoughts?

[Daryk]

Being able to reach out and touch pirates is always useful! :)

I wouldn't go for ARTS in the first generation.  Maybe upgrade to it later?

[Retry]

ARTS can also be used with manned fighters, not just drones.  It can be a good upgrade on an otherwise-crewed vessel as it lowers your consumable consumption and provides (most) veteran repair crew features without actually having to lose a veteran repair crew if you lose the ship.

[Giovanni Blasini]

ARTS can also be used with manned fighters, not just drones.  It can be a good upgrade on an otherwise-crewed vessel as it lowers your consumable consumption and provides (most) veteran repair crew features without actually having to lose a veteran repair crew if you lose the ship.

That's a fair point.  Dropping the SCL and tweaking a couple other items would result in this:

Code: [Select]

Quetzalcoatl-Scout JumpShip Patrol Cutter
Mass: 90,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3125
Mass: 90,000
Battle Value: 1,450
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 293,878,260 C-bills

Fuel: 52 tons (520)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 3
Heat Sinks: 91
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 6
    Fore Sides: 7/7
    Aft Sides: 7/7
    Aft: 6

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Fighter (6)        2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (329.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  6 officers, 28 enlisted/non-rated, 1 gunner, 10 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 21 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    1 MASH Equipment (4 theaters)
    2 Space Mine Dispenser
50 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:           Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)     Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (8 Heat)
1 Large Laser   8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
FRS/FLS (22 Heat)
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Laser   8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (22 Heat)
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Laser   8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       



[Daryk]

Niops will have such a small number, I could see one of each flavor being built... ;)

[Lagrange]

That's a fair point.  Dropping the SCL and tweaking a couple other items would result in this:

Another trick is that you can mix ARTS and non-ARTS bays.   The ARTS bay can work 24 hours/day so by shuffling fighters between bays you can easily do maintenance on more than one fighter from a single ARTS bay.

[Daryk]

Now THAT's a bright idea Niops would totally run with! :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Niops will have such a small number, I could see one of each flavor being built... ;)

And given they're being basically refit on existing hulls, that'd make a lot of sense.  Hell, there's no reason why it would necessarily just be Scout-class JumpShips.  Any JumpShip that's had issues signficant enough to render it still able to jump but unable to carry DropShips would be a prime candidate for conversion, and the most common JumpShip hull in the Inner Sphere isn't the Scout, but the Invader (see below).

Another trick is that you can mix ARTS and non-ARTS bays.   The ARTS bay can work 24 hours/day so by shuffling fighters between bays you can easily do maintenance on more than one fighter from a single ARTS bay.

Yeah, that is a brilliant idea.

Now, what would all this look like on an Invader hull?  Something like this:

Code: [Select]

Invader Jumpship Patrol Cutter
Mass: 152,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3125
Mass: 152,000
Battle Value: 1,844
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-F
Cost: 382,575,667 C-bills

Fuel: 50 tons (250)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 116
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 9
    Fore Sides: 8/8
    Aft Sides: 8/8
    Aft: 9

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (1)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             3 Doors   
    Bay 3:  ARTS Fighter (6)        3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  ARTS Small Craft (1)    1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (257.5 tons)      1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (258.0 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (65 m)
Escape Pods: 6
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  4 officers, 19 enlisted/non-rated, 5 gunners, 22 bay personnel, 22 passengers, 21 marines

Notes: Mounts 84 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (14 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (46 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
1 Large Laser            8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (46 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
1 Large Laser            8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (14 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         



Yes, it's a 40% increase in cost.  It's also vastly more capable, and built on a much more common hull.

[Daryk]

Yessss! LOVE IT! :D

And I could totally see the maintenance crews on the non-ARTS craft doing everything in their power to shift their hard maintenance issues to the ARTS bays... ;D

[Giovanni Blasini]

Yessss! LOVE IT! :D

And I could totally see the maintenance crews on the non-ARTS craft doing everything in their power to shift their hard maintenance issues to the ARTS bays... ;D

Yeah, I was floored at first, because it seems like a small increase in mass, since both JumpShips are fairly small.  However, the available mass increases by 69%.

Honestly, the Tramp class might even be a better bet.  That Invader has around 3900 tons for cargo, transport bays, fighters, weapons, passengers, etc., after you rip out its docking collars.  Tramps, at 100kt heavier, have nearly 6300 tons available.

The drawback on the Tramp is it's half a billion C-bills for a stripped-down model with no docking collars.  On the other hand, it's got a sketchy reputation in the Inner Sphere due to flaws in the new production model, which also means you can probably pick up ones with flawed docking collars easily enough, and they might even be more readily available than the Invaders because of it.