Warship Arms Race III

[VensersRevenge]

As there has been a lot of recent discussion in the previous Warship Arms Race thread about launching a new version of the game, I figured I would make a clean thread to gauge interest in it. So if you are interested in playing, could you please leave a reply stating what faction or factions you are interested in, whether you are willing to co-GM, and if you want to start in 2300 again.

List of currently interested players and faction choices:

VensersRevenge: GM/Terran Hegemony
FastConcentrate8: Federated Suns
Daryk: Lothian League
Truetanker: Marian Hegemony
Tyler Jorgensson: Lyran Commonwealth
AlphaMirage: Outworld's Alliance
GermanSumo: Rim Worlds Republic
Gorgon: Free Worlds League
Lagrange: Draconis Combine
Smegish: Capellan Confederation

[AlphaMirage]

For a further shakeup, could you instead choose a Clans changeup?

Post-KLONDIKE and Wolverines the war-exhausted SLDF-in-Exile is living in dire fear of whether the Wolverines made it back to the IS and might find their way back for revenge. Run through the Clans as they evolve, extinct, and rebuild themselves through the Golden and Political Centuries.

You start with a Clan and any NPC factions just get gobbled up due to a poor leadership. Much smaller space to manage, but plenty of space to grow, and motivation to do so.

[FastConcentrate8]

I am interested.

If we run with just canon factions, Dibs on Davion.

If we allow for custom factions, I will run my idea when the decision is made.

[VensersRevenge]

For a further shakeup, could you instead choose a Clans changeup?

Post-KLONDIKE and Wolverines the war-exhausted SLDF-in-Exile is living in dire fear of whether the Wolverines made it back to the IS and might find their way back for revenge. Run through the Clans as they evolve, extinct, and rebuild themselves through the Golden and Political Centuries.

You start with a Clan and any NPC factions just get gobbled up due to a poor leadership. Much smaller space to manage, but plenty of space to grow, and motivation to do so.

It's an interesting idea, and it would certainly limit the amount of GM record keeping in comparison. I don't know how much interest there would be for it though. But if there are multiple people who want to do it, then I would be willing to.

I am interested.

If we run with just canon factions, Dibs on Davion.

If we allow for custom factions, I will run my idea when the decision is made.

Sounds good.

[FastConcentrate8]

It's an interesting idea, and it would certainly limit the amount of GM record keeping in comparison. I don't know how much interest there would be for it though. But if there are multiple people who want to do it, then I would be willing to.

Sounds good.

Another idea is to do something like ConcertVerse. The First Succession War breaks the Great Houses and now new states are arising from the Warlords.

[Daryk]

I'm partial to the Lothians (who didn't exist in 2300), but would be interested in any small faction making a break for it (with NO intention of coming back).

[Gorgon]

I'm interested, mostly in a minor or middling power. The early Clans would make for a cool scenario, with everyone starting on similar terms.

[Smegish]

I'm willing to play, either as a major IS power or as a clan, though I don't see the clans going on much of a warship building race. What with the massive caches floating around and total lack of infrastructure.

[VensersRevenge]

Yeah, it might be better as a Grand Council sirt of game instead.

[FastConcentrate8]

Yeah, Clan Game would just become a Ground Race game rather than a WarShip Arms Race.

I personally vote for IS, either 2300 Great Houses or post Balkanization Rising Powers.

[truetanker]

Marian Hegemony for truetanker.

And If we are going Clans, then I'd like to claim the world of Fasa.

TT

[AlphaMirage]

I'm willing to play, either as a major IS power or as a clan, though I don't see the clans going on much of a warship building race. What with the massive caches floating around and total lack of infrastructure.

All of that stuff could be broken in a tougher and more extensive but importantly off screen Pentagon Civil War. Infrastructure can be built, each PC Clan might just be working with NewGranges at first, with limited hull capacity.

Ground War could be a component for resources while investing early in orbital infrastructure might yield greater benefits later on. Thus a careful balancing act must be struck between them, as your ground armies still needs to get places, like my asteroid mines, and it sure would be a shame if some Cruiser denied you SafCon.

[FastConcentrate8]

Personally, I'd still prefer an Inner Sphere or Periphery setting. Kerensky Cluster feels a bit small all things considered and with limited industry, we probably wouldn't be doing too much since any major losses would be unrecoverable for a long ass time. It would probably boil down to the low level ground skirmishing we associate with Pre-3048 Clan Warfare.

[Lagrange]

I'm interested and flexible about what I play.  I rather enjoyed playing underdog with the TC in the first game and it was nice to actually be able to play something that mattered in the CC in the second game.

We had a discussion about rules before the second game here, leading to:

Standard scale damage does not affect capital scale armor greater than 10 times the standard scale value.  For standard scale weapon bays use the damage of the largest weapon in the bay.  For cluster weapons, use cluster damage (i.e. 5).  Where standard scale weapons can damage capital armor, add up all damage to a facing from an attacker and divide by 100, rounding normally.  Critical hits can only be delivered by individual attacks dealing at least 1 capital damage.

In addition, there was quite a bit of discussion leading to point defense rules which make more sense.

    Point defense standard damage equal to 4 * capital damage generates a 50% chance to kill a capital missile (or a flight from a capital missile bay).  Multiple 50% chances to kill the same capital missile(s) can be generated, but all point defense applied to a capital missile passing through a hex must be designated before rolls to kill the capital missile are made.   Additional point defense may be applied in successive hexes.
    Antimissile systems and bays on smallcraft and largecraft may fire up to 6 times in a turn, generating heat and consuming ammunition each time.
    Antiship missiles do 1 capital damage.

The first paragraph seems fairly essential as without it, carriers are completely dominant.  The second paragraph seems less essential, although dropping it implies every warship with access to AMS is missile proof conferring a significant class of weapons to the dustbin of history.

• In terms of rules, I'd prefer to keep designs rules-legal, even if we interpret the design differently.
• I'm in favor of designing more than just large craft.  Several of us did so anyways in prior games.  Those who don't want to can just rely on some reasonable default design.
• In terms of turn resolution, I'd suggest a deviation from prior experience where the GM's role is reduced in expectation, since in practice GM burnout is the limiting factor for these games.  The more limited role is: the GM chooses turn events (i.e. battle with force X vs. force Y).  These turn events can vary from quite fair to totally unfair ("a civil war starts", "force X was ambushed by force Y", etc...).   But, the resolution and the writeup need not be on the GM---instead the events are announced and any nonconflicted party can resolve and writeup.  (Of course, the GM could be the nonconflicted party, but historically that's the burnout path.)
• The precise way tech advancements have been run has varied, and fiddling with it further is reasonable.  One notable experience is that if tech advancement is to slow it becomes game-play problematic.

[VensersRevenge]

Thanks for all the replies so far!

 

We had a discussion about rules before the second game here, leading to:The first paragraph seems fairly essential as without it, carriers are completely dominant.  The second paragraph seems less essential, although dropping it implies every warship with access to AMS is missile proof conferring a significant class of weapons to the dustbin of history.

• In terms of rules, I'd prefer to keep designs rules-legal, even if we interpret the design differently.
• I'm in favor of designing more than just large craft.  Several of us did so anyways in prior games.  Those who don't want to can just rely on some reasonable default design.
• In terms of turn resolution, I'd suggest a deviation from prior experience where the GM's role is reduced in expectation, since in practice GM burnout is the limiting factor for these games.  The more limited role is: the GM chooses turn events (i.e. battle with force X vs. force Y).  These turn events can vary from quite fair to totally unfair ("a civil war starts", "force X was ambushed by force Y", etc...).   But, the resolution and the writeup need not be on the GM---instead the events are announced and any nonconflicted party can resolve and writeup.  (Of course, the GM could be the nonconflicted party, but historically that's the burnout path.)
• The precise way tech advancements have been run has varied, and fiddling with it further is reasonable.  One notable experience is that if tech advancement is to slow it becomes game-play problematic.

I absolutely agree that limiting the standard scale damage is essential, and I also absolutely want to ensure that capital missiles are able to be useful so I think I will maintain both rules. As to your other points: I am absolutely keeping current construction rules, I don't have the skill to create a functioning spreadsheet to allow for house rules, and will probably rely on MML. I also plan on allowing customization of all space assets. I think this will help with the balance between battleships and carriers without going to far the other way. Turn resolution is something I am not sure on, particularly when it comes to determining the results. While I am certainly not claiming to be perfect in interpreting what should happen, I worry that inconsistency in interpretations of force strength could cause discontent as well. But I certainly understand the burnout concerns, and I want this to succeed. As for tech, I also wonder if having customizable small craft will help balance the different technologies better and avoid running towards certain warship improvements. I also plan on including some more RPG elements, but I am always looking for advice and criticism to ensure this goes as well as possible.

[Smegish]

The only solid rule change that required changing the Warship design spreadsheet (I'll link a copy when I get back to my PC) was to seperate DropShuttle bays from the KF-Drive multiplier cost. So you could have either cheap but heavy Dropshuttle bays or light but expensive Dropship collars. Naturally Dropshuttle bays limit you to 5kt Droppers, but far cheaper to run.

EDIT: Link here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XhWiVuWMbQjF7-n3CIh8mmbgv3_o-0N8DOVvdufNyxo/edit?usp=sharing

[truetanker]

Would there be Ground or just Naval only?

Is there going to be a shopping list of Generics, like CF was 2.5 M each / 5 M for ASF?

More than the classic "Invader" jumper?

Can we "buy" Marines for the vessels?

And such...

TT

[VensersRevenge]

Given that the role you are playing is High Admiral or whatever you want your faction to call it, probably just Naval. I'll keep the generics and add more jumpships that can be built as technology allows it.  I'm leaning towards generic infantry marines being included in the price of their bays, with BA being more decided later as we get to it.

[Smegish]

Another option we didn't go with but I wish we did was a turn 0 budget, allowing people to start with a fleet of primitive-core WarShips, fighters etc.

Probably wouldn't have let them expand their existing yards or keep any leftover though.

[VensersRevenge]

That makes a lot of sense, I might go with no warships though, to ensure that the Hegemony keeps their advantage for longer so there is less chance the surrounding powers devour it too quickly.

[GermanSumo]

hey guys, bad english  speaking german is back. i played the amaris empire in arms race II. if you restart, i would like to join. interested in the amaris empire, dracs or taurians. i had lots of fun, tried many out of the box idea and really wanted to see, if my out of the box missile boats/stations would work.

so yeah, definetly in. despite having no inkling about any kind of sensible construction hehehe

[Lagrange]

...

W.r.t. event outcomes, skepticism that random folks can resolve things effectively is healthy.  At the same time, I expect there may be other folks who can resolve an event well.  For consideration, the narrative failure modes I recall are:

• Error in storytelling (naval lasers from all sides fire in one direction).  Very plausibly this was overload as it was the GM.  You could ask people to write things out and PM you for edit/critique before posting.  The game can survive a few storytelling errors.
• Predetermined outcome not particularly congruent with forces available leads to somewhat awkward narrative. Not the end of the world---sometimes surprising things happen in battle.  But, it might be good to just give forces and luck/leadership rolls with the outcome undetermined for someone to work out a story.  This would be more interesting from a storytelling perspective and avoid awkwardness.
• People other than the GM commit to doing things and don't.  I'd suggest using a race condition: no one "owns" an event until it's done.  Wedging on undone events ends the game.

W.r.t. play, one thing we consciously used was individual ranges rules as per the SO optional rules.  This is not necessary, but I expect you'll get more diverse designs doing so since more weapons make sense.  As an example, the Light Naval Gauss is a bit of a lemon in terms of damage vs. tonnage, but if you are using individual ranges it has real value as the longest range direct fire weapon.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I’ll take Steiner then

I’ll comment later on more things

[marcussmythe]

For my own bit, my resolution process was as follows:
I.  Identify Objectives (what is each side trying to do)
II.  Identify Intelligence:  What does each side know; and when do they know it?  Careful evaulation of the sensor rules is helpful here, and this interacts with I and III.
III.  Make Plans:  Based on what they know about who is here, what they probably want, the relative admirals intel at various points, etc - make out each sides plans.  Thesemay change.
IV.  Run those plans through the rules.  I didnt roll every shot - instead doing a rough lanchester equation at various battle stages.  (Missiles and espc fighter strikes got handled as salvos; of course).  Figure out who dies faster at each part if the engagement, and how each admiral is going to try to change those things to acheive his objective.  Im looking at resilience and firepower, absolute and relative, as a function of range and ammo and the like.  Do fighters go in first?  Or second?  Pros and cons to both. For example, do I need to blow past the enemies LNGauss to wreck the yards with NACs?  Or if I have the LNGauss, can I lay off and bombard and force them to come to me?  If the enemy has every advantage, do I retreat?  Can I use along range strike to lower their firepower enough to win a close engagement?  Admiral skill and luck and the like play in here.  Dice are rolled to create noise, but dice arent likely to change W and L unless things are quite close.
V.  After figuring out the numbers behind the narrative, I write up the narrative commensurate with the math.

I probably spend 8-12 hours on each major battle, from ‘what are each forces orders and objectives and motivation level and order of battle and maintenance status’ through ‘this is the final body count’.  Honestly, in retrospect it was a labor of love, that I could not do again (unique life circumstances gave me a LOT of spare time and mental energy - and even so I burned out fast).

That said, Im actually pretty proud of what came out, while it lasted.  That much fidelity may just not be a thing thats doable, though - and if it burns out GMs, it doesnt work, however pretty one battle report might be.

For a new game - I will try to watch, but I dont think I have the energy to play again.

[AlphaMirage]

We could always knock everything down to Alpha Strike/Battleforce stats and roll that through significantly faster than with the regular SO/TW rules.

Also if we could run post-Exodus when Kerensky took everything away we can start with some minimal base infrastructure and/or SLDF Defectors. Run the Succession Wars if there were still Warships but never enough to go around.

That said if we do this I'd want the Outworld's Alliance.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I’d prefer the early start year again: it gives us time to mold the fleets our way.

I wouldn’t mind an early Clan era (immediately post Klondike pre Wolverine Annihilation ;) ) but agreed it would be a little complicated without adding some form of ground combat in. OTOH it might be slightly easier and we can just do Trials… but countering that we would have to have some basic economy in on why we are Trialing or what for. So we’d have to add that in and that might take time.

Not a BAD starting idea would actually be post Second Succession War or early Third. Consider almost no Warships exist BUT TPTB have decided we need to invest again! Most factions have been established at this point and we can claim like one or two major yards at MOST. Downside being no Hegemony of course.

Another idea… hear me out…. Empires Aflame. Either post DeChevalier taking control or the ‘current’ setting of 3095 (I think that was the date?) start with canon fleets for most factions. Admittedly less factions.

Just my two cents

[Gorgon]

We could also go modern and start at the beginning of the Dark Age as everyone scrambles to rearm.

[FastConcentrate8]

Another idea… hear me out…. Empires Aflame. Either post DeChevalier taking control or the ‘current’ setting of 3095 (I think that was the date?) start with canon fleets for most factions. Admittedly less factions.

Just my two cents

I can ball with this. Only problem is that I must become friends with the Cappies.

As I also suggested, we could go with the ConcertVerse idea of a strong Terran Rump State and many small states rising from the ashes of the Great Houses.

[VensersRevenge]

Thank you for all the replies and suggestions so far! To be honest, it sounds there is appetite for a lot more than I can run by myself, but multiple separate games could be an option! I want to be clear, there is no way this is going to start before March so I have more time to prepare for running all of this. I would love more feedback and suggestions, especially in what exactly people are looking to be able to accomplish.

[Gorgon]

The only solid rule change that required changing the Warship design spreadsheet (I'll link a copy when I get back to my PC) was to seperate DropShuttle bays from the KF-Drive multiplier cost. So you could have either cheap but heavy Dropshuttle bays or light but expensive Dropship collars. Naturally Dropshuttle bays limit you to 5kt Droppers, but far cheaper to run.

EDIT: Link here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XhWiVuWMbQjF7-n3CIh8mmbgv3_o-0N8DOVvdufNyxo/edit?usp=sharing

This makes DropShuttle bays so much more useful. Many canon droppers are below 5000 tons anyway.

[Daryk]

That rule sounds custom made for early runners like the Lothians! :)

And don't expect the Lothians to run in the same direction they did in canon... ;)

[VensersRevenge]

I have a list of who has expressed an interest an what power they would play if they have chosen a specific faction in the first post. If you have any updates, please let me know.

[Daryk]

I just need to know the minimum number of Snowdens I need to escape with... ;)

[marcussmythe]

Yeah.  Hauling leopards on-board as swarm landing craft makes a kind of sense.  In the last game, my (NPC) faction used Small Craft like Higgens Boats - sure; they are comparatively fragile, but cheaper to haul along and much less risky that stuffing a whole battalion in an Overlord!

[Smegish]

I'm not that picky about my faction tbh. Snakes.... RimJobs.... Purple Eagles... whatever is left is good :)

[marcussmythe]

Dammit.  Im getting tempted.  Do we have an official map?

[GermanSumo]

I just need to know the minimum number of Snowdens I need to escape with... ;)

put me down for RWR or Amaris Empire, pls. :D

[truetanker]

What's the SitRep like for the Starting Faction?

Like are we having a Turn 0 budget, or do we get a JS and some DropShuttles each?

If so, may I suggest a Conestaga and DropShuttles? (Mingo specifically.)

Also, would we be using the MUL as the official sheet, along with Homebrew designs?

Thanks,
TT

[VensersRevenge]

I plan on a turn zero with no warship construction. My current thought is that the spreadsheet from the previous Arms Race will be used, but it should only effect dropshuttles, so if you are not using dropshuttle bays, and for other units, MML will be used.

[Gorgon]

I though it over and would like to claim the Free Worlds League. But the Capellans or oven the Illyrian Palatinate would be fine, too.

[truetanker]

If we have the Tech Tree, when will the Droppers show up, do we assume standard buying in R&D? Or do they just become available after the first time a neighbor develops them? Are there going to be any Free items in the way of every Regional Capitol Planet gets a Colony Ship? Like the Conestaga and Mingo combo?

The big major Faction Houses, could have their Aquilla and such, but us little fish, need all the help.

(I remember I had to fight my budget, to even get any gains. I'd like to ratify that this turn, if possible.)

TT

[VensersRevenge]

If we have the Tech Tree, when will the Droppers show up, do we assume standard buying in R&D? Or do they just become available after the first time a neighbor develops them? Are there going to be any Free items in the way of every Regional Capitol Planet gets a Colony Ship? Like the Conestaga and Mingo combo?

The big major Faction Houses, could have their Aquilla and such, but us little fish, need all the help.

(I remember I had to fight my budget, to even get any gains. I'd like to ratify that this turn, if possible.)

TT

If dropship sizes are part of the tech tree again, which as of right now they probably are, then they have to be researched same as any other tech. I don't really plan on their being free items, that's partially what Turn 0 is for to set up properly before the game proper starts.

[Daryk]

Since Angelina Logan doesn't leave the Concordat until 2691, what should I do between 2300 and then? :)

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Since Angelina Logan doesn't leave the Concordat until 2691, what should I do between 2300 and then? :)

Personally I’d say just split off those basic systems to start… but that’s just my opinions

[VensersRevenge]

As I move forwards in preparing for this, I have a request for everyone. You will all be playing the succession of chief admirals of your respective states, and would of reached your positions for a variety of different reasons. But one reason is likely the most prominent. Is your starting admiral a tactical genius? A strategic mastermind? A logistical wizard? A skilled trainer? Well connected with the various movers and shakers of your state? Or something else?

[Daryk]

My guess is Angelina Logan's husband, a former Commodore-level equivalent in the Taurian Navy... ;)

[AlphaMirage]

I am actually thinking of the Outworld's Alliance's Admiral as one that saw trade as the best avenue for peace with the Inner Sphere. It did this by incentivizing the Kukk Trading Company to form a consortium with the United Outworlders Company and granting them a trade monopoly (and favorable subsidies for exploration and exploitation of the new colony worlds). So rather than build an offensive fleet (at first) the OAN starts out with 'East Indiamen' like armed corporate ships (and privateers).

Thus logistics is CEO Amadeus Kukk's game and he didn't (doesn't) like the Star League, Draconis Combine, or Federated Suns infringing on the Alliance's rights, but it does like their money.

[FastConcentrate8]

As I move forwards in preparing for this, I have a request for everyone. You will all be playing the succession of chief admirals of your respective states, and would of reached your positions for a variety of different reasons. But one reason is likely the most prominent. Is your starting admiral a tactical genius? A strategic mastermind? A logistical wizard? A skilled trainer? Well connected with the various movers and shakers of your state? Or something else?

A little bit of two of them.

He's a Davion, but is militarily skilled though tends to delegate logistics to others.

[Lagrange]

Who is playing which factions?  (And hence which faction needs someone to play?)

[marcussmythe]

Im still waffling in my head about playing and wondering if we have a starting map.

If I play, my Admiral is (shocking noone) a skilled Administrator and Logistician. :)

[Lagrange]

Ah, the first post has who's who.  The current missing set is CC, DC, TC, UHC, and  MoC.  Of these, CC and DC seem the most critical to the game.  I did CC previously, so I'm inclined towards DC.

My admiral will be a skilled scaling systems designer.

(I remain flexible about which faction, so if someone else really wants DC, happy to cede for something else.)

[Daryk]

Never mind... didn't see your post on the next page.  Nothing to see here!

[truetanker]

I'll be playing the ever-lovable Lord Grand Admiral Kortan, a position of power. So, might makes right and the use of overpowerin' lightnin' force upon weaker opponents and such. Because oppressors need to be punished for crimes against the Periphery! What's a bit of pillaging between friends?

TT

[Gorgon]

High Commissioner of the Navy Vice Admiral Fatima Ramona Allison-Montecuccoli
was an officer of the Oriente Federal Naval Forces prior to the founding of the Free Worlds League and her transfer to the newly-founded Free Worlds Leauge Navy. Her level-headedness and excellent skills in team coordination and integration saw her appointed senior naval coordinator when the Stewart War broke out in 2293. (Good political connections didn't hurt either - she is married to Fernando Allison, a second cousin of the Duke of Oriente). Vice Admiral Allison Montecuccoli performed remarkably well, coordinating the forces of Regulus, Marik and Oriente to great efficiency. The resulting deceisive naval victory hastend the end of the campaign and earned Allison-Montecuccoli much admiration among the League's Parliament.

When Parliament voted to further integrate the military commands of the three member states and create a permanent federal military command, Vice Admiral Allison-Montecuccoli was the natural choice in heading up the creation of the Free Worlds Navy from the naval forces of the Marik Commonwealth, the Federation of Oriente and the Principality of Regulus.

As the 24th century dawns, High Commissioner Allison-Montecuccoli has successfully established a unified naval service for the Free Worlds League. She sees the development of a federal navy not only as a means of protecting the League, but also as a political tool to further the integration of the young nation. Much of her time is spent handling parliament and the still-existing individual naval commands of the member states. She is convinced that the FWLN needs to expand to secure the League's independence and prosperity, but also to built a new naval tradition independent of the hodgepodge of experience and personnel inherited from its predecessors.

[Daryk]

Given all that, I'd have expected her to be promoted to full Admiral... :)

[Gorgon]

Given all that, I'd have expected her to be promoted to full Admiral... :)

It seemed cheaper to give her a political office than a promotion at that time 

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Even though I’m playing the LC I am not going to immediately dive into the Steiner trope of Social Admirals or Generals

My commander (name unknown) will be a competent commander, enough the ride to the top on ability, if uninspiring commander. They’re not likely to come up with a brilliant plan but just solid tactics and strategy. I can’t think of a good comparison atm. Just solid work effort over several decades.

Also @Gorgon: your first date lists 2993… a good six hundred years on the future lol

[truetanker]

@Gorgon...

Great the big bad, stupid, Byrd has reared its ugly head.

Time to go a'huntin I say... here chickee chickee chickee...

 

TT

[Gorgon]

@Gorgon...

Great the big bad, stupid, Byrd has reared its ugly head.

Time to go a'huntin I say... here chickee chickee chickee...

 

TT

Y'know, you could save all of us (mostly you, really) a lot of trouble and heartache if you would simply consider becoming a member state of the League. Bully your neighbors if they show weakness, send delegates to senate (well, parliament, same difference). you'll hardly notice the change. We even let you wear your funny little togas on Atreus! Who knows, it might even catch on...

(...you faux-roman wacko)

[Smegish]

Admiral Hei Yu of the Capellan Confederation Navy is a skilled trainer and logistician, tactics and strategy are details that can be worked out once the navy is actually capable of fighting someone.

[truetanker]

(...you faux-roman wacko)

Byrd
Cries in latin...

Plebs trying to be Patricius...

Buhawahaha!

Naw, I'm a small fry and you'll have a much bigger fish to fry closer to you, as you try to swallow your own regions, I got enough on my plate. Just going to do my "Can't Bully me, Bryd! campaign... Would you like to know more? Service guarantees citizenship, enlist now at your local MHAF recruitment station! Are you doing your part, citizen?

Scene ends with kids kicking a purple ball ball with FWL emblem on it...

(just joshing with you...)

TT

[Gorgon]

Byrd
Cries in latin...

Plebs trying to be Patricius...

Buhawahaha!

Naw, I'm a small fry and you'll have a much bigger fish to fry closer to you, as you try to swallow your own regions, I got enough on my plate. Just going to do my "Can't Bully me, Bryd! campaign... Would you like to know more? Service guarantees citizenship, enlist now at your local MHAF recruitment station! Are you doing your part, citizen?

Scene ends with kids kicking a purple ball ball with FWL emblem on it...

(just joshing with you...)

TT

Just you wait, I'm gonna sell so many weapons to Illyria they're gonna arm every adult, child and chipmunk on that frozen rock!

(I know, it's all good fun)

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Just you wait, I'm gonna sell so many weapons to Illyria they're gonna arm every adult, child and chipmunk on that frozen rock!

(I know, it's all good fun)

Well if you’re suppling Illyria I think I have an opportunity to sell some weapons to the Marians…. I like this idea!


No intentions towards the FWL… just want some extra cash floating around. Gotta make a big ARC ship and name it the ‘Scrooge McDuck’.

[Gorgon]

Solid plan! After all, there ain't no arms race like a proxy arms race!

[Lagrange]

Expanding a bit on the DC:

Admiral Minamoto Abe owes his position to nepotism, war games, and war theory.  Early commanders complained about Minamoto's excessive suggestions but a few lateral promotions to Draconis Rift exploration fostered by Minamoto's boyhood friend Tenno Kurita helped his commanders develop a more productive attitude.  While fast tracking up through the ranks in active deployment Minamoto saw minimal actual action.  Instead, he drew senior officers into increasingly complex war game simulations which were often shared with Tenno.  Building off that experience and studying the history of engagements across the inner sphere, Minamoto developed and published a doctorate on modern warfare called "Jump power".  Given his whispered backing this became essential reading.  Shortly after Tenno took over as Coordinator, Admiral Abe became the natural trusted lieutenant in charge of all aerospace developments.   

There were grumbles of course about lack of direct battle experience and youth, but Admiral Abe delegated control of fleets and training to those with real fighting experience.  Admiral Abe reserved the majority of his time to perfecting and enabling his war theory focusing on designs and disruptions of complex naval systems.

[VensersRevenge]

Thank you for all the responses on your characters! I hope you all enjoy the additional choices or limitations your starting admirals will have. I will probably begin sending out PMs with some of your first decisions for Turn Zero in the next few days. With all Inner major Inner Sphere powers filled, there is only the Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, Principality of Rasalhague, and United Hindu Collective left as NPC powers.

[Lagrange]

It may be worthwhile to state broad starting conditions. 

Techs available are as per canon 2350? 

Capital ~= 100x standard? (Other tweaks from canon?)

Things to buy as per last game?   

Tech research handled as per last game?

Budgets as per last game?

There's a number of things that are tweakable here and some tweaks from the previous rounds are good just for variation.

Edit: Also, 2300 or 2350?  There's a fairly substantial variation in available techs.

[FastConcentrate8]

Fleet Admiral Jacob "Jackie" Harrison-Davion, veteran of the Early Crucis Pact Navy, may owe his office commission to the latter half of his surname but has proven himself to be a reliable officer with an eye towards the future. A notable theorist who has published multiple papers on the theory and doctrines of a modern navy in the newly developing WarShip age. Proven in battle against Pirates and other Protostates, Jackie has a trait shared by few other Admirals, diplomatic acumen and has some ideas he'd enjoy sharing with his cousin the President/First Prince (not sure which vesion we will be using since the original game was anachronistic in government structures).

[truetanker]

Well if you’re suppling Illyria I think I have an opportunity to sell some weapons to the Marians…. I like this idea!

Blonde, Brunette, Redhead or Raven haired? Pick your stock, we have lines of serfs ready for wholesale discounts.

Male and Females available, even kids!

TT

Also, maybe create a new Google Doc with the updated lists?

[truetanker]

List of currently interested players and faction choices:

VensersRevenge: GM/Terran Hegemony
FastConcentrate8: Federated Suns
Daryk: Lothian League
Truetanker: Marian Hegemony
Tyler Jorgensson: Lyran Commonwealth
AlphaMirage: Outworld's Alliance
GermanSumo: Rim Worlds Republic
Gorgon: Free Worlds League
Lagrange: Draconis Combine
Smegish: Capellan Confederation

Should list the Unknown realms not affiliated with a Player.

That way we can see the scope.

TT

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Blonde, Brunette, Redhead or Raven haired? Pick your stock, we have lines of serfs ready for wholesale discounts.

Male and Females available, even kids!

TT

Also, maybe create a new Google Doc with the updated lists?

Cold hard cash or raw materials only. Maybe trade routes and economic opportunities too… we’re Lyran! Not Periphery Pirates!


redheads please lol

[GermanSumo]

"Alexander van Farcht is not your typical Rim World high officer. Not from noble (or Rowes entourage heritage) his trader parents fled from an area now part of the Draconis Combine when he was just born. His parents needing to flee after a "friendly takeover" from a combine traders family. The family spent several years in space earning meager income as ship officers. After some years they found permanent employ with the growing Republic like so many other refugees. Growing up in the republics trading fleet and never living planetbound, his body never grew big or muscular but he constantly fought muscle atrophy. When he became 16, he enlisted in the Rim World Military as a pilot. His experience as ship rating, his keen mind and his knack for strategy and military history helped him in the common officer courses he found himself in. Drop-, Jump- and Warship training followed soon after. Chances to join those were provided by a "high officer" mentor. With 30 he was an accomplished career officer in command of his own military Jumpship patrolling the periphery borders of the RWR fighting pirates regulary and providing defense for the nascent periphery colonies. Until a nasty fight nearly cost him his right leg and he became crippled. But never again could he walk and serve normal.
So his mentor helped him out again and made him an instructor at the newly christened RWR naval academy. Shunned by most of the higher officers in the Navy due to his "common" roots the mentors protection let him rise there as well until he became the Head of the acadamy.
In the following decades Alexander van Farch reached the rank of Admirals and shaped the academy. Despite the higher class officers nepotism (similar to the social generals in the Lyran Commonwealth), his stern but professional approach and his strategic knowledge made him a known and respected Admiral with the ratings and common officers. Nepotism in the RWR navy still runs rampant though due to political loopholes for wealthy and connected individuals to circumvent the public academy by having their young officers being "tested" and evaluated "at home" by experienced officers of captain or higher rank.
The death of the old Fleet Admiral led to the appointment of van Farcht to this position at the age of 67 after being the head of the academy for over 30 years. Much to the shock and chargrin of the "high officer" corp. Foreign spy services also cannot tell what the Rowe family actually wants to change in the Navy and the naval politics... but all analysts agree on one thing: change and reform will come."

This is van Farchts summary. In rpg terms, he would have his highest stats in Low-G-Movement, Ship Rating, Military History and Strategy (fleet deployment). Crippled right leg (can walks slowly with a cane for short distances on a planet) and some really high level enemies. Also beloved by the majority of the fleet. His naval war games to train the navy are not only regular but famous with all naval personal throughout the Inner Sphere. While the highest echelon of the officer corps in the RWR might be social admirals, the average training and experience level is actually quite high due his established curriculum. His works on naval warfare are a must read for many.

:)

i hope, venser can make some traits with this background. :D

[truetanker]

If we can, I highly want to use the following linky as Generic.

Posted by: DevianID.

It is a good example of the Tech in Era.

That is, if we want to use them.

TT

[GermanSumo]

Expanding a bit on the DC:

Admiral Minamoto Abe owes his position to nepotism, war games, and war theory.  Early commanders complained about Minamoto's excessive suggestions but a few lateral promotions to Draconis Rift exploration fostered by Minamoto's boyhood friend Tenno Kurita helped his commanders develop a more productive attitude.  While fast tracking up through the ranks in active deployment Minamoto saw minimal actual action.  Instead, he drew senior officers into increasingly complex war game simulations which were often shared with Tenno.  Building off that experience and studying the history of engagements across the inner sphere, Minamoto developed and published a doctorate on modern warfare called "Jump power".  Given his whispered backing this became essential reading.  Shortly after Tenno took over as Coordinator, Admiral Abe became the natural trusted lieutenant in charge of all aerospace developments.   

There were grumbles of course about lack of direct battle experience and youth, but Admiral Abe delegated control of fleets and training to those with real fighting experience.  Admiral Abe reserved the majority of his time to perfecting and enabling his war theory focusing on designs and disruptions of complex naval systems.

hhmm... maybe van Farcht and Minamoto play distant chess together? sounds like that would fit. :D

[Gorgon]

With each turn having to be delivered by jumpship courier, each game may take a while 

[GermanSumo]

jep, it would. but whats diplomatic corps for? "Here, attache... some very urgent and important business from the fleet admiral to his counterpart!"

[truetanker]

Well, last two games had 10 year turns...

So, it could be a whole slew of games...

I'm down for 5 year turns to incite more action, anyone else like this idea?

TT

[Gorgon]

Sure, I wouldn't mind turns covering a shorter amount of time. I like spending a bit longer between tech advances and having conflicts or events cover a few more turns.

[truetanker]

Yeah, everything had that "rush" feeling and it was like every 2 weeks was pushing the limit per decade.

I can see taking a RL Month of 28 days to complete a 10-year push, giving us a 2 week 5-year Turn period. It would allow us a slower rate to control an area. I mean, it would be up to the GM and players to see if they would want a slower per turn with more background options or continue with the past.

I also suggest to VensersRevenge, he make another thread with the "Story-line", so we can place our Budget and Fleet maneuvers and for those that want to read at their enjoyment. That way, we can leave this for Questions and such. And of course, the proverbial Tech Page, where we can show our latest "Wheel" off to the peeps in Foreign Intelligences.

TT

[Lagrange]

hhmm... maybe van Farcht and Minamoto play distant chess together? sounds like that would fit. :D

Very possible.  But how do they meet?

[Intermittent_Coherence]

Is it too late to join in?

[truetanker]

Never... I think there is 2 left, possible more?

TT

[Smegish]

Still the Taurians and United Hindu Collective left of the factions that exist in 2300. May be able to convince the GM if you really want to play Canopus of course.

As to the 5/10 year turns, I'm good either way tbh.

EDIT: Also because I don't remember if I shared them with you earlier...

Blank IS map: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vaTFsaycn9ZJdX4QUoKng_oz6bgf1U-6/view?usp=sharing

Previous game start: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19a6Puzk8FRB8zE62sqGJ-YZJ25EUumKD/view?usp=sharing

[Intermittent_Coherence]

Be interested in playing Taurians if that's still possible...

[Lagrange]

Be interested in playing Taurians if that's still possible...

I'd suggest assuming "yes", and declaring your admiral.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

No opinion on either time frame window: either is good for me.

[Smegish]

One possible idea that occurred to me to make missiles a little more useful: Make them omni-directional weapons, much like missiles in The Expanse. Tube really just needs to kick the missile out the tube and clear of the firing ship, after which the missile can just orient itself in the right direction and off it goes...

[truetanker]

That would be Bearings firing, correct?

TT

[Lagrange]

One possible idea that occurred to me to make missiles a little more useful: Make them omni-directional weapons, much like missiles in The Expanse. Tube really just needs to kick the missile out the tube and clear of the firing ship, after which the missile can just orient itself in the right direction and off it goes...

The "capital missile preprogrammed waypoints" rules on SO page 102 is quite close to that.  A warship can put 7 of 8 arcs of missiles on a target.  Similarly, a space station can put 5 of 6 arcs on a target.

[truetanker]

Everything except the Aft, correct? IIRC, that is.

TT

[Lagrange]

Everything except the Aft, correct? IIRC, that is.

TT

Right.

[FastConcentrate8]

Another way to make missiles more useful would be to just ban split bays.

It makes increased AMS an actual sacrifice while making it both useful for defense but not strong enough to completely invalidate missiles.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Are there not the tele-operated missiles?

[Lagrange]

I'm confused about the "missiles aren't useful enough" meme.  Where is that coming from?

It's not like they are unused---last game they were commonly used.  And they're a unique weapon in at least two ways: a capital weapon that can attack fighters without penalty and they have unbounded range via a bearings-only launch.

Nerfing AMS so that it can't fire faster than on ground units seems adequate to leave missiles a useful weapon.

[truetanker]

Are there not the tele-operated missiles?

In the time frame, no. That's much later, later SLDF-era.

Nerfing AMS so that it can't fire faster than on ground units seems adequate to leave missiles a useful weapon.

Wasn't it like, 3 AMS / MGs or other Point Defense System, nerf'd a single Cap missile in the old games?

And I really want to say it was mostly 'Cudda slung back and forth with the other types more anti-ship.

TT

[Gorgon]

I may have misunderstood the proposed rules, but I thought it was: point defense damage / 4 = capital damage value of missle => 50% chance of interception




So to intercept a Barracuda (2 capital damage) you need a point defense bay with a damage value of 8 or higher. That's 8MG or 6 Small Laser (damage value is halved for point defense work for everything but dedicated AMS). I don't know how it works for weapon bays that feature multiple öaunchers, whether the Point defense bay gets a chance to fire at each missile in the volley (for additional heat or ammo) or only once?




But regardless, missile interception chance is at most 50%, so missile proofing is under house rules not as easy as under RAW.

[Lagrange]

And I really want to say it was mostly 'Cudda slung back and forth with the other types more anti-ship.

Yes.  Baracudda are often preferred due to their bonus to hit.   

I may have misunderstood the proposed rules, but I thought it was: point defense damage / 4 = capital damage value of missle => 50% chance of interception

Sounds right.

But regardless, missile interception chance is at most 50%, so missile proofing is under house rules not as easy as under RAW.

Well, it would be 50% per capital*4 PD damage, so if you had capital*16 PD damage the odds of intercept would rise to about 95%.

The above seems mostly "realism" flavor to me balance-wise since you can still quench a missiles storm with sufficient point defense. 

The real balance factor is only allowing AMS to fire 6 times per turn, making them "only" as effective as (say) 12 SLs rather than the default of nigh-infinite SLs.

[truetanker]

slight bump

Any news?

TT

[FastConcentrate8]

slight bump

Any news?

TT

Me realizing how much I overspend on my designs.

[Smegish]

It's the drop collars, they add a bunch to the final price.

[FastConcentrate8]

It's the drop collars, they add a bunch to the final price.

That and LF batteries.

[GermanSumo]

i somehow get the feeling, we lost a gm again. this time before the game even started?

[marcussmythe]

Hopefully not, I was looking forward to spectating this one - but it really is about a part time job’s worth of work to do right.

[truetanker]

My undead Horse has a stick, where can he beat it at?

Bump..., er... thump thump?

TT

PS: I sent an email via their PM envelope link on their face-plate page. Like when one DMs another there is a small mail symbol. Clicking that allows you to E-Mail the "player". Hopefully they receive it, after all real life comes first. TT