What are the best Battle Armor models for Marine Boarding Operation

[Hellraiser]

Like the title says, what BA have the best "Marine Points" ratings for Boarding Operations using the rules for combat inside a large craft?

Do they list MP value for units anywhere or is it all just by hand calculations?

[AlphaMirage]

I believe it is all just hand calculations. Marines were going to be my next addition to my Second Star League Fleet (link below) entry. If you wait a little while I will have a table handy.

That said I believe the Salamander might be in the top tier due to its paired battle claws, pretty decent armor, and adequate weapons. There is also a Snow Raven Elemental suit that is modified for the purpose but I haven't done the math yet to see which is better

[Jellico]

The trick is to be Clan, big, clawed, and have a burst fire weapon.

From something I produced earlier...
Warg 6.25
Rogue Bear Upgrade 6.25
Elemental Space 6.25
Golems 6
Ironholds 6
Rogue Bear 6
Gnome LRM and Upgrade 5.25
Corona 5.25
Constable LMG 5.25
Salamanders are 5, about mid strength.

Infiltrator Marine 5.25
Ravager 5
Nephritis 5
Kanazuchi Cyclops 5
Haulers U15 and II 5
Grenadier HK and LRR 5
Kanazuchi Drill 4.25
Then you are into the 4s, 3s and 2s. Note the general lack of small suits.

[Daryk]

What's the page reference for Marine Point calculation?  Sounds like a challenge for the Design Forum...  ^-^

[AlphaMirage]

What's the page reference for Marine Point calculation?  Sounds like a challenge for the Design Forum...  ^-^

TacOps 202. Already working on it (Space Marines Design)

[Daryk]

Cool... I'll look for your thread...  8)

[Hellraiser]

Sounds like a challenge for the Design Forum...  ^-^

TacOps 202. Already working on it (Space Marines Design)

The whole reason I asked the question was because I saw someone posting pictures of Robotech Armor which reminded me of like 5? years ago or so, when I designed a Marine Suit & called in the Cyclone Marine Armor as homage to the Robotech suit.  (Note mine had nothing to do w/ motorcycles & such, just used the name)
I stuck everything I could on that suit useful for Marine Points.

Which then made me wonder what the best canon suit is these days.

The trick is to be Clan, big, clawed, and have a burst fire weapon.
....
Then you are into the 4s, 3s and 2s. Note the general lack of small suits.

1. Thanks for the list.
2. My "Cyclone" suit from years ago was actually IS Tech & Light BA,  but not PA,  for fitting through doorways & such.
I don't recall its MP rating but it sported a MG & lots of gadgets & I want to say was 4+ or 5+ points?

[Hellraiser]

Actually,  just did a Forum search & found it.   2011, I stand corrected, that is older than I thought, lol.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battle-armor/cyclone-marine-armor/msg75186/#msg75186

[Daryk]

Probably older than that, and salvaged from the previous iteration of the board...  ^-^

[Colt Ward]

With us actually getting blue water ships, I wonder how well some of these suits would carry over for boarding actions on that type of vessel.  I know I used the Combat Ops early boarding resolutions for close quarters combat- things like infantry packed bunkers that would have several different levels.

[Hellraiser]

I feel like those can be used for any large interior area.

Warship, Jumpship, Dropship
Submarine
Bunker
Factory
Castle Brian
Etc etc.

[Weirdo]

The exact same rules are explicitly for use within all of those environments.

[The Eagle]

I was thinking Longinus-Magnetic.  The mag clamps will let them cling to exteriors of ships while cutting their way inside, they're decently armored, and two burst fire weapons will be murder on unarmored defenders & crew.  But then again I have zero practical experience with anything aerospace related so I'm probably missing something.

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, I know, I'm resurrecting but its a similar topic & I already started this thread.


SO, 

My Follow up question is....

Prior to the NL-42 Battletaxi introduction in 3053.

What Small Craft designs are used for Marine Boarding Ops?

I've been looking & I'm not finding much on the MUL.

I found something called "Intrepid" that appears to be extinct by the time of the SL Era.
And a Taurian Only design called the "Tigress".
But.....  That is it.
I can't find a single SLDF era small craft with Guns/Armor & Troop Capacity.

Is there nothing out there or am I missing something?

[AlphaMirage]

Small Crafts are very much open-ended and receive little focus on the TRO front. I'd use an S-7, the Scarab bomb truck is a variant of it however I'd want a lot more armor on any boarding shuttle.

[Colt Ward]

The old Landing Craft . . . sure, it lands, but it is also for travel between ships.

[Hellraiser]

The old Landing Craft . . . sure, it lands, but it is also for travel between ships.

I found a gunship version of that, but it has no cargo space.
V/S the OG model w/ crap for Guns/Armor & the space to transport a tank.

I'm basically looking for the NL-42 but earlier, and probably Intro Tech.

[Colt Ward]

Pretty sure suits & infantry can be in 'cargo' and exit w/o specific doors, they just cannot live on the small craft.

[Oriffel]

With us actually getting blue water ships, I wonder how well some of these suits would carry over for boarding actions on that type of vessel.  I know I used the Combat Ops early boarding resolutions for close quarters combat- things like infantry packed bunkers that would have several different levels.

We're getting more blue water stuff?
Finally!  ;D I hope we get a cruiser. 

[Colt Ward]

Lol, I am talking in the last . . . 10 years?  Although I think one was hinted at recently when I made that post.

[Weirdo]

What Small Craft designs are used for Marine Boarding Ops?

First off, my first advice is to accept that you're not going to find anything near as fast as the Battle Taxi. It's just not gonna happen, sorry. In addition, a lot of your other options are going to have less firepower. Fortunately, guns are 100% irrelevant to a boarding shuttle, as there's no way to actually carry enough to make a difference while still carrying a decent amount of troops.

Here's some options:

Debuting in 2438(XTRO Primitives II) or just after are the first three Marks of the Ares. They're slow at 3/5, but getting them to the target is pretty much the DropShip's or WarShip's job.

Mark I is the serious hauler, 65 tons of marines should be enough to capture just about anything, guns are comparable to the Battle Taxi, and while it has less armor(281 points), it's still enough to survive a few passes by enemy heavy fighters.

Mark II is the gunship, with enough firepower to make fighters and even small DropShips flinch. Can still carry 15 tons of troops.

Mark III is a mix between the two that also boosts the armor to 326 points. Only carries 2 platoons of troops, though. My least favorite of the bunch.

After this, we go back to TRO 3057r. There's three that I'll point out here, all move at 4/6, can carry at least a few platoons of troops, and have enough armor to survive a few incoming salvos.

In 2528 we get the ST-46 Shuttle. Completely unarmed(don't care), 320 points of armor, and 12 tons of space.

2536 gives us the K-1 DropShuttle. Just enough guns to make the lightest of fighters a bit nervous or be useful as a customs/police boat, 360 points of armor, 16.5-ton bay.

The Clans would debut their upgrade in 2914. The K-1C has pretty much the same cargo, better guns, and boosts the armor to 444 points.

This is 100% a tooting of my own horn, but the K-1 series has what I feel is a rather nice *otW article here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,73453.0.html  :)

Finally, there's the latest iteration of the 'Mark' haulers, the Mark VII. (The IX is still more recent, but you're asking about stuff that predates the Taxi.) Despite being the only military-spec vessel of this trio, it has the thinnest armor at 'only' 232 points, which should still be enough if your DropShip pilot is at all competent. Firepower is slightly better than the K-1 and more focused due to the aerodyne shape. 31 tons is a LOT of troops, second only to Mark I. A 2841 release date means this ship comes too late for Star League usage, but would be the New Hotness during the fierce space battles of the early Succession Wars.

Like the K-1C, the Clans' Mark VII-C improves the guns with pulse lasers, and the armor is now 264 points. Same intro year, which tells me this was either a case of parallel evolution, or the Mark VII was already on the drawing board when Kerensky left and the specs went with him. Or it's a mistake. We do have to remember that TRO writers are human, after all.

[Hellraiser]

Thanks Weirdo.

Nice Summary.

Glad to know some of the early versions of the Ares/MARK/LandingCraft have cargo.
I got the impression from Sarna you either ended up with a Vehicle in it or it was a GunBoat w/o any Cargo.

It probably doesn't' help that from the DS/JS days you also have 2 different sizes for the Ares/MK line of ships.

I'm not really concerned about Guns,  mostly just Armor & designated infantry bays but I guess plain old Cargo still works.


I noticed you didn't include the "Shuttle Bus" or "Long Range Shuttle" in the list.
Neither of them work for you?

It appears there isn't really a designated "Boarding Craft" like the Battle Taxi before it came out.  Which is odd.

[Weirdo]

Sarna is flat-out wrong in this case, and DS&JS had been hopelessly outdated ever since the first version of 3057 came out. I would not trust either.

The two I left out were those with very little armor compared to the others. A shuttle may only need to survive a turn or two before the troops should be on the target, but they just seemed too thin for the job.

Either older dedicated boarding pods simply aren't published yet, or as the list above shows, they were never needed because of the wide variety of ships that can already do the job.

[Hellraiser]

If you haven't seen them yet.

Look up the Intrepid & Tigress classes.

Neither is ideal for the job, but they are at least what I am thinking of, just neither is era/faction appropriate.

[Weirdo]

They're both very nice gunships, though not as effective at boarding as any of the ones mentioned above.

[Failure16]

Apologies if I missed it, but can Orbital Marines be deployed for an in-transit boarding operation from a cargo bay, or do they need their own specialized Infantry Bay. That is to say, dedicated bays can deploy elements immediately (e.g. in a Turn) but cargo bays need substantially more time (measured in minutes).

[Daryk]

StratOps page 20 says:

Doors noted as pure cargo bay doors, or fighter/Small Craft bay doors, cannot be used...

It's unclear if that applies to Marines, but the prohibition seems pretty comprehensive.  I would lean toward a dedicated door for Marines trying to pull that maneuver.  StratOps absolutely allows them to attempt boarding operations.

[Weirdo]

For short-term rides like an APC, regular cargo will do and work just like an APC. Bays and such(or storing things as bulk cargo) are for long-term transits.

[Daryk]

For short-term rides like an APC, regular cargo will do and work just like an APC. Bays and such(or storing things as bulk cargo) are for long-term transits.

I thought APCs had "Infantry Compartments"... that would imply a specific kind of door, wouldn't it? ??? (or as the recent emoji change appears to be enforcing... I hope we get the old ones back!).

[Colt Ward]

StratOps page 20 says:
It's unclear if that applies to Marines, but the prohibition seems pretty comprehensive.  I would lean toward a dedicated door for Marines trying to pull that maneuver.  StratOps absolutely allows them to attempt boarding operations.

It does not apply to infantry or BA, they exit through unlisted doors since they can fit out anything.  This discussion came up before about Elementals doing HALO since their bays on DS did not have associated doors.

Infantry Compartments vs Cargo was a old BMR problem.