BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Inner Sphere => Topic started by: beachhead1985 on 29 March 2024, 00:40:00
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Possibly some people's dream scenario: You find a battletech novel somewhere you have never seen before. It looks right, feels right. But it's not one you're familiar with and does not show up on any official list. Also; you don't recognize the author.
But the back of the book details a story featuring a well-known merc unit. One that's featured in a number of novels and sourcebooks.
From this point, you instantly have a pretty good idea how the novel will go, no matter what unit it is, right? And not because you know the unit doesn't die until some other book. Because All of the popular "pet" units have a certain power of fiat, right? I mean; you're still going to read it, but you basically know the pattern, right?
Okay, well now onto a different scenario.
Strip away the plot armour, the fiat. Picture yourself as a person in the Inner Sphere in the high age of mercenaries we all know and love. You have the resources to hire a merc unit of a given size to complete a contract.
Absent their favourite author on their side; which is your pick to pull off a given mission or campaign? What could they *not* pull off?
Now, I am an avowed not-fan of Stackpole, but all else being equal; I have to pick the Kell Hounds. And I don't care whose leading them. I say this because their people are reliable, they put a good emphasis on support organizations and they have a good mix of unit types in most of their incarnations.
Kind-of the emblematic hero-unit in a lot of ways, but reliable.
But how would I break them? Grinding attritional warfare with fortified positions. Like what you see in the MacCarron's Armoured Cavalry book. They'd be my last pick to take a fortified, well-defended city or (in the Jihad) a revamped Castle Brian. Absent their plot armour, I think they'd try something too-clever-by-half and without a writer who loves them, it would blow up in their face.
But what do you think? What's your pick?
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The thing is even if you strip away the plot armor from the dragoons they're still stupidly overpowered. You said I could hire anybody, why wouldn't I hire the guys who have five regiments of Clan machines and are in every respect the mercenary unit you created when you were nine?
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The thing is even if you strip away the plot armor from the dragoons they're still stupidly overpowered. You said I could hire anybody, why wouldn't I hire the guys who have five regiments of Clan machines and are in every respect the mercenary unit you created when you were nine?
I just want to share my appreciation for you and this post. Cheers & co-signed!
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The way you framed this question, the only merc units we can compare in a "presence of author/absence of author" way is those merc units who have had page time or novel time devoted to them.
That's actually a pretty short list. Wolf's Dragoons, Kell Hounds, Eridani Light Horse, GDL, Black Thorns, Avanti's Angels, Northwind Highlanders, I'm sure I'm forgetting one or three off the top of my head. Most merc units have only appeared in sourcebooks and field manuals.
I find this question kind of limiting. If they've never had an author behind them to provide that "plot armor" then they've always existed in the second state you mentioned. Always. They've lived there, their entire existence. Just getting a page in a field manual or a few references in a sourcebook. Sometimes winning, sometimes losing.
So I feel like you are asking, of the few merc units that have had that kind of author focus and attention, who do we think would still hold up and do well, in the absence of that author focus and just being treated like every other mercenary unit.
My answer to that would very much be it depends. As good as Wolf's Dragoons were they still got ground down on Misery and via employer betrayal essentially (yes they ultimately won on Misery, but the cost was enormous and it's not like the Combine recouped them for the losses). Any mercenary unit can fail just by being completely overwhelmed, 5-1 or 10-1 odds (the presence of hostile units that weren't supposed to be there), after having been given just all around bad intelligence and/or bad/poor/inadequate support going into a contract. That disastrous combination of many things went wrong, many mistakes were made, by the unit or the employer or both. Any of them can suffer a disaster from that.
So is your question then really, which units do you think don't deserve their success because of the plot armor they've been given, due to the dedicated focus of an author and page time devoted to them?
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Camacho’s Caballeros. They’re homegrown skilled mech pilots, unorthodox, and have some good infantry (even downplaying Cassie from one woman Mech killer to just competent skilled infantry woman).
How to break them? Have them do a military parade. No way they stay disciplined enough to not have that turn into a complete disaster.
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Opinions of the Dragoons, minus plot armour are higher so far than I expected.
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I would say let's take Hansen's Roughriders. For one, they belong to the few who can officaly boast to have beaten the Dragoons Zeta battalion. Plus you have the tragic aspect with the Bromhead Massacre followed by a rage induced orgy of destruction through concordat space until their near atomic death on Terra and then their rebounce leading to the formation of a short lived state and then again participating on Terra to their near destruction.
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Opinions of the Dragoons, minus plot armour are higher so far than I expected.
I mean they are exceptional, they have a lot of diverse and well trained units, warships, a planet, high tech industries, a fearsome reputation, and are known for professionalism
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Opinions of the Dragoons, minus plot armour are higher so far than I expected.
Plot armor is what happens when someone wins when they shouldn't because the story demands they live (for instance: Malvina never gets retaliated against for using WMDs because the writers would only allow Alaric to beat her). The Dragoons don't rely on plot armor, they rely on being the result of a Monty Haul campaign. Totally different narrative issue.
If you want a plot armored force, let's talk about Rubinsky's Renegades. We're expected to believe that a Rifleman would stand up to a Clan assault at point blank because it's boating MLs and has jump jets. There's only six of them and yet FM: Mercs has them going against a Jaguar binary and not only surviving, but WINNING. Somehow they get knocked down to just 1 or 2 mechs but always manage to find something that lets them rebound. Now THAT'S plot armor. The Dragoons were just born an inch from home base and think they're crushing balls out of the park.
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Any of these https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Mercenary_Commands besides the ones that have novels written about them. Every single merc novel is just plain plot armor...period
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That’s why you get them when they’re not the protagonists! The Black Thorns never saw it coming!
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I'm going to take up a weird call here.
Avanti's Angels would have never made it without the novel.
In particular the XO's call to deploy the unit into combat on Astrokaszy against the bandits (that were actually WoB set on destroying the Angels). That went so badly that the XO gave out an order that meant run, scatter and save yourselves. Effectively disbanding the unit into the desert.
Only later does the unit come back together and with the surprise appearance of Sun Tzu Liao no less, who contributes to the unit winning the battle and then graciously decides to let the Angels depart with a ton of the salvage. More than enough to let the unit fully recover and then some.
That kind of story wouldn't have made it into JUST a sourcebook. It was too convoluted, too twisty with too many hidden actors doing things, and the personal and political schemes of Sun Tzu Liao no less, alongside what some Canopians were doing, and what some Blakists were doing. There were too many complex facets to it to just be in a FM: Mercs. But it was a good story for a novel.
Without the novel, if the unit had simply been portrayed as a unit that went to Astrokaszy to find some bandits, they wouldn't have survived. They would have been a mysterious victim of the Word of Blake in the early days of that organization, and the Astrokazy warlord(s).
Until that novel their trajectory was of a unit that had been formed, was struggling to pay the bills or its members, and had gone off into the periphery because of how badly they were struggling. Their fate looked mapped out to a slide to defeat and obscurity. They had no benefactor. Nothing to pull them out from that, and they were the target of a scheme beyond their comprehension and understanding, particularly once the WoB made destroying them a goal.
Sun Tzu Liao saved their butts and gave them enough salvage and captured equipment to more than fully bounce back.
It happened practically at a whim of a Great House Lord. Could have easily gone very differently had Sun Tzu Liao just been in a different mood.
(Disclaimer, I actually really like Avanti's Angels, and I liked the novel)
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If you want to look at plot armor, really the original GDL was one of the worst offenders. Too many of their stories involve the Legion ending up on the ropes, only to jump straight to "the enemy has been routed and the Legion stands battered but victorious."
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plot armor has become the new stupid pills of BT discourse
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Is it new? Because I remember plenty of discussion about it back on the old boards.
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it's not new it's just become the newest overused term in regurgitated analysis
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Quantity is a quality all its own, so if my resources were unconstrained, I’d hire one of the big multi-regiment units: 12th Star Guards, 12th Vegan Rangers, Blue Star Irregulars, Illician Lancers, etc. Throwing mass at a problem can cover a lot of sins.
These units are also long-standing, mostly dating back the Star League or earlier, which demonstrates a certain amount of staying power that is probably as attributable to good judgement and leadership as it is to luck. And they all ascribe to higher ideals, usually from their SLDF days. These are all things I’d want in hired guns with their own city-leveling and civilian-massacring weapons.
The way to defeat such units is to use their ideals against them. Threaten civilians, take hostages, go after dependents, etc. in ways that force these units to withdraw, make bad choices, walk into traps, etc.
The ELH is the pinnacle of these types of units, so I’d hire them before these others. But I left them out as a plot-armored, name-brand unit.
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Quantity is a quality all its own, so if my resources were unconstrained, I’d hire one of the big multi-regiment units: 12th Star Guards, 12th Vegan Rangers, Blue Star Irregulars, Illician Lancers, etc. Throwing mass at a problem can cover a lot of sins.
just make sure to negotiate a low damage coverage clause
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Absent their favourite author on their side; which is your pick to pull off a given mission or campaign? What could they *not* pull off?
But what do you think? What's your pick?
Well if I'm restricted to the few units that have plot armor & they no longer have it..... Yeah, Dragoons, its still a 5 regiment unit of highly trained fighters.
Runner Up goes to the ELH.
But I'll expand on this a bit and answer some questions of my own that you didn't ask.
Who would I NOT hire as I think Plot Armor is the ONLY reason they exist.....
The GDL.
Sorry, w/o Plot Armor they don't get off Trellwan or any of the other places they were outnumbered/gunned by 3-1 or more.
Not that I don't like the GDL, loved them as my intro to the BT universe.
But lets face it, there is an unfathomable amount of luck in their survival.
Lastly, who would I hire that ISN'T one of those famous plot armor units............ The Arcadians.
For 2 reasons.
#1. Because it's like someone at Fasa/CGL stole them right out of my head from my 80's MW1 campaign. (Right up there w/ the Stone's Lament paint scheme)
#2. Because of what they are, a bunch of combined arms trained FS troopers able to operate as a small RCT (Brigade/Combat Command) w/ good support from Air, Artillery, Tanks, & Infantry.
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Is there an opposite form of "Plot armour"/"Author Fiat"?
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"Plot armor" and "author fiat" are more often than not just people saying "I don't like what the writer did in this book" while trying to make it seem as if it's not a matter of their own personal taste but something the writer is doing wrong to get from Point A to Point B. I tend to put these terms in the just-as-often-misused "Mary Sue" category and ignore them when they come up in discourse, because they end up derailing said discourse.
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Is there an opposite form of "Plot armour"/"Author Fiat"?
I call it "getting dumpstered." The only person who cares about you leaves the company so you get hit by a van. That kind of thing.
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It all depends on who you are as the employer, what you want them to do, and how much you want to spend.
If I’m Hanse Davion before the start of the 4th War I’m hiring Wolfs Dragoons, Illician Lancers, ELH, Northwind Highlanders and however many other big Merc units I can get because mass = overwhelm. I’d also probably try and hire a bunch of smaller DEPENDABLE RELIABLE units to guard my rear lines, dependents of those Merc units, etc.
On the other hand if I just need a company to augment my militia and help train them up I’d hire someone like the early GDL or the Black Thorns. Wolf’s Dragoons probably won’t do the job and would be madly expensive. If I was a larger planet/corporation/ noble that needed something I’d hire a slightly larger unit: in the IlClan era Hansen’s Roughriders are the go-to.
Now none of this is really based on those terms but merely their reputation and EXPERIENCE. For a period after the Davion Civil War/ Jihad Group W would be good on police keeping training thanks to their experience in Galeta. In the IlClan era I’d hire ex-republic forces like Sechellyes Stonehearts to teach anti-Clan/ RAF tactics to counter the Falcons and Wolves.
Now a GREAT book for this EXACT question is ‘Patriot’s Stand’ by Mike Moscoe.
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If we go by mission type here are a few of my ideas
Support (like maintaining / repairing): Skibinski's Salvage
Combat Support: Thor's Hammers
Garrison / Riot duty: Stalwart Support (when only infantry is required), Greenburg Godzillas (for the laughs as they can mock up their Mechs perfectly to do some funny shenanigans)
Objective Raids: Rubinsky's Renegades, Narhal's Raiders
Pirate Hunting: Markson's Marauders
Planetary Assault obviously one of the A* or A rated ones, if those are rather meant for diversionary campaigns then Hansen's Roughriders
Defensive campaign: Tooth of Ymir
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Opinions of the Dragoons, minus plot armour are higher so far than I expected.
They were incredibly well armed when introduced, kept that edge right up until Outreach got nuked, and were supremely well trained thanks to their origins.
They were very effective for multiple reasons, not just because they were author favorites. The Black Thorns and maybe the Grey Death Legion on its early days were much more dependent on author fiat to survive. They were small, stumbled into very bad situations that were designed to destroy them, and made it out by the skin of their teeth multiple times when they should have been destroyed or stripped for parts after getting chewed out by angry employers.
There's no way the GDL should have survived the number of incidents they got into.
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Objective Raids: Rubinsky's Renegades
Bro this is MINUS the plot armor. Going nose-to-nose in a Rifleman boating MLs no longer magically works.
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I’d probably go ELH. Of all the merc commands I can think of, they are the most that feels like a dispassionate military force with their heads on straight.
NWH might just leave cause Scotland/northwind
Goons might leave because something something revenge or clan wolf
Kell hounds cut contract and go off mission hard in their opening stories.
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The Kell Hounds' number one job will always be furthering the political goals of the Grand Duke of Arc-Royal. You hire them, you make peace with that.
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The Kell Hounds' number one job will always be furthering the political goals of the Grand Duke of Arc-Royal. You hire them, you make peace with that.
I had not considered that. Good argument to be made there.
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The Kell Hounds' number one job will always be furthering the political goals of the Grand Duke of Arc-Royal. You hire them, you make peace with that.
Especially in their later years, they were basically a House unit by another name. Closer to the Tau Ceti Rangers in their level of independence (or lack of), as compared to the ELH who were probably one of the most independent units.
And they paid for that independence in blood.
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Especially in their later years, they were basically a House unit by another name. Closer to the Tau Ceti Rangers in their level of independence (or lack of), as compared to the ELH who were probably one of the most independent units.
And they paid for that independence in blood.
Even in their early years, they were full on Lyran loyalists.
The GDL should have died on Trellwan. The sheer number of head shots beggars belief. But I’m glad they survived. Jeremiah Rose OTOH just made me angry. Guy thinks he’s going to stroll into the Northwind Highlanders Warriors Assembly literally hours after getting off a dropship and ask to poach their warriors and equipment, and gets upset when they told him no.
If I’m going to hire someone, I’d go with Wolf’s Dragoons too. They were still some of the best trained, best supplied units in the Inner Sphere.
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It's mission dependent but for ,most things I'm thinking a regimental sized force is probably right for most things.
My go to would be the 21st Centauri Lancers, if they're not available Hansen's Roughriders and failing that (per blakest interference) the Stealthy Tigers.
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Obviously, you'd need serious cash (and some moral quality for the other at least) to hire either but it is a no brainer for me: Wolf's Dragoons and Eridani Light Horse. We can argue if there's plot armor in some specific instances and stories (we could also argue that the Dragoons actually go from one highly contrived near destruction to another tbh, but yes arguably they do make it out at the end of each those), but just in general these are very professional, fully fledged military formations that lack typical mercenary problems (both have inherited institutional knowledge of very solid and active militaries at the outset, which then develops into years of actual experience in mercenary operations). These are not units you hire to secure your sister's farm or go blow up some building (and if that's what I'm doing, I'd hire someone else), but to do some serious theater-wide work and to produce large scale, significant military outcomes. They also bring their own unique culture and way of doing things, so you don't get to dictate and micro-manage their operations on that scale, which might be an issue depending on what you're out there doing.