Author Topic: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts  (Read 67291 times)

I am Belch II

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #30 on: 26 April 2022, 11:15:20 »
The show budget is so much lower when you can just go down the street vs Vasquez Rocks or anywhere else.
It just should of been San Fran vs LA.
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gyedid

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #31 on: 26 April 2022, 16:57:26 »
then it can only get better.

Patrick Stewart is one of the *executive producers*, which is not quite the same thing as the *showrunner*, who's ultimately in charge of all creative decisions.  And that person is Terry Matalas. If he's also helming S3, then we can reasonably expect the same issues to crop up.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

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gyedid

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #32 on: 26 April 2022, 17:06:32 »
There was something better about the Humans in the Confederation. They had to be smarter, stronger or something to take over all the species and powers in the Galaxy including the Borg. With the Shield over Earth there had to be some weakness and seeing that with Kore and Soong that one episode. That is something in the story that has yet to be explored along with a couple of other missed stories. Just a one off comment would be a little nice...they seem to do it about a couple of things in a episode.

Along the same lines....with 7 not having the Borg implants that would mean she is form that Confed universe.....why can she have no problem in the sun in 2024??

Right. With Adam Soong's background and his experiments, you would expect him to be a big player in the Eugenics Wars (or have they forgotten about that?)  We haven't seen anything so far that suggests he's a xenophobic crypto-fascist.  Then again, this deal that he seems to be cutting with proto-Queen Agnes might offer an answer to the issue you raise there--Confederation humans were more prepared to deal with the Borg because there was somebody who already had an idea what their capabilities were, and they had more time to develop effective counters to Borg tech, knowing that the Borg were out there waiting as opposed to being thrust in unprepared like in "Q Who?"

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #33 on: 26 April 2022, 17:18:21 »
Right. With Adam Soong's background and his experiments, you would expect him to be a big player in the Eugenics Wars (or have they forgotten about that?) 

Nothing explicit, but the Shenzhen Accords which regulate genetic research that he was in violation of are fictional, so they could well be a reaction to the Eugenics Wars
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monbvol

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #34 on: 26 April 2022, 21:49:31 »
I get the sense that as far as Picard season 2 is concerned the Eugenics Wars have yet to happen by 2024.

The writers have decided to give themselves an 'out' as far back as Space Seed where they explicitly state that records from that period of Earth's history are wildly inaccurate/incomplete.

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #35 on: 27 April 2022, 02:48:37 »
I assume they won't address them directly, but given Kirsten Beyer is the show's co-creator and an EP and writer, and she came to Trek from the novels they could be going for the whole "it was a shadow war that came to light later" thing that the books did, even if they don't explicitly state it to give future writers room to do whatever with it.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #36 on: 27 April 2022, 08:42:22 »
Maybe.

But given the other bits we know via TOS, ENT, and First Contact it seems likely they have yet to happen as of 2024.

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #37 on: 27 April 2022, 10:28:30 »
I have to wonder if the devastation of WWIII actually gives the writers a bit of an out in terms of soft retcons regarding Trek lore about the late 20th/early 21st century.

All they have to say is that vast amounts of records were destroyed in that war, to the point that modern historians aren't actually 100% sure when the Eugenics Wars took place. History is a pretty fluid thing in the real world, with preconceptions and ideas changing and being thrown out as records and artifacts get unearthed, they could always say that comments from TOS and early TNG were accurate according to what historians of that time believed.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #38 on: 27 April 2022, 10:51:10 »
I have to wonder if the devastation of WWIII actually gives the writers a bit of an out in terms of soft retcons regarding Trek lore about the late 20th/early 21st century.

All they have to say is that vast amounts of records were destroyed in that war, to the point that modern historians aren't actually 100% sure when the Eugenics Wars took place. History is a pretty fluid thing in the real world, with preconceptions and ideas changing and being thrown out as records and artifacts get unearthed, they could always say that comments from TOS and early TNG were accurate according to what historians of that time believed.

If the Eugenics Wars happened I bet they will be combined with WW3. In TOS WW3 had 37 million dead, in First Contact said 600 million dead. I thought somewhere that Enterprise combined the 2 wars for script sake. I know there was lore fiction (i know not cannon) for the combine the two. I also wonder how different sides and factions have different names for battles and war, I wonder if Eugenics and WW3 are the same and writing down history.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2022, 10:53:20 by I am Belch II »
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #39 on: 27 April 2022, 11:04:04 »
That would make sense, either having Eugenics Wars be another name for World War III, or maybe even a single theater within the larger war, much like how many sources refer to the Japanese front of WWII as the Pacific War.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #40 on: 27 April 2022, 11:41:07 »
That would make sense, either having Eugenics Wars be another name for World War III, or maybe even a single theater within the larger war, much like how many sources refer to the Japanese front of WWII as the Pacific War.

They could also be the flashpoint that starts it, or combine with Optimum at the end of it, or we could be seeing the provoking incident of both Optimum, and the Eugenics war with what's going on with the Borg Queen and Soong's ancestor.

There's also elements of "No Fate but what you make" going on.  In TOS, the third world war happened in the 1990s, in TNG, it was the mid-21st century.  There's temporal shenanigans that altered that timeline from Gary Seven to Kirk kidnapping a couple whales, to Picard's FIRST trip to the distant past (meeting Cochrane) not to mention Janeway's temporal interactions, Sisko replacing Gabriel Bell, and the Temporal Cold War's multiple visits by both sides in the Enterprise run, and now we've got Picard BACK in the past.

What if the reason Q is an antagonist this time, is because all of those have had a cumulative impact of both delaying the Eugenics wars, and altering the logical outcomes (and delaying humanity's warp drive)?

Drop a rock in a river, the river diverts around the rock.  Drop enough rocks in a river, and you've got a dam and the river changes course.  There's been a LOT of rocks dropped in the river.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #41 on: 27 April 2022, 13:12:00 »
True, the timestream has gotten a little constipated over the years.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #42 on: 27 April 2022, 13:19:23 »
True, the timestream has gotten a little constipated over the years.

consider that the explanation I just gave covers a MULTITUDE of things fanboys bitch about, and it's consistent internally to the canon if you consider a universe wherein time-travel exists and is possible, and where changes actually matter.

(also explains the 'temporal cold war' as being various 'endstate outcomes' duking it out to guarantee THEIR timeline is the one-true-timeline).

I also kind of suspect that there's going to be a Discovery/Picard/Strange New Worlds crossover or two hinging around time-travel if the writers go with it to the degree they can.  (with the objective of 'straightening out' Trek continuity in favor of the CBS take without simply ignoring what many fans cherish.)

These are just random thoughts, because we don't have the new show to talk about just yet...(it's not on my screen yet!!)
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #43 on: 27 April 2022, 14:28:43 »
True, the timestream has gotten a little constipated over the years.

Its Star Treks way of saying there is a Multiverse!!! Every sci-fi does it now...the one we are in now is the Kurtzman Universe....almost as bad as the Mirror Universe.
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gyedid

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #44 on: 27 April 2022, 16:00:59 »
They could also be the flashpoint that starts it, or combine with Optimum at the end of it, or we could be seeing the provoking incident of both Optimum, and the Eugenics war with what's going on with the Borg Queen and Soong's ancestor.

Um, what's _Optimum_?  Is it one of the novels?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #45 on: 27 April 2022, 16:07:38 »

I also kind of suspect that there's going to be a Discovery/Picard/Strange New Worlds crossover or two hinging around time-travel if the writers go with it to the degree they can.  (with the objective of 'straightening out' Trek continuity in favor of the CBS take without simply ignoring what many fans cherish.)


I worry about this, that they're going to try something like what Manny Coto did with season 4 of ST:ENT and make Asimovian attempts at creating a shared/synthesized universe out of the various time periods and major plot arcs of both classic and nuTrek.

EDIT:  After I wrote that, I realized they're probably already doing it.  Why else give Security Chief La'an a family name like Noonien-Singh unless they mean to establish a connection to Khan?

cheers,

Gabe
« Last Edit: 27 April 2022, 18:58:31 by gyedid »
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #46 on: 27 April 2022, 16:10:36 »
Its Star Treks way of saying there is a Multiverse!!! Every sci-fi does it now...the one we are in now is the Kurtzman Universe....almost as bad as the Mirror Universe.

DISCO S3 pretty much already admitted it--remember when discussing Evil Georgiou's deteriorating condition, Kovich mentioned they were aware of the Kelvinverse, and even pinpointed the divergence point.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, who can forget the TNG episode "Parallels"?  Multiverse in Trek...not new...

cheers,

Gabe
« Last Edit: 27 April 2022, 19:01:41 by gyedid »
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

I am Belch II

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #47 on: 28 April 2022, 06:55:10 »
DISCO S3 pretty much already admitted it--remember when discussing Evil Georgiou's deteriorating condition, Kovich mentioned they were aware of the Kelvinverse, and even pinpointed the divergence point.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, who can forget the TNG episode "Parallels"?  Multiverse in Trek...not new...

cheers,

Gabe

Something else in Disco that talked about the Q said they haven't had any contact with the Q since the 25th Century. I think that is some on what might happen here at the end of Picard.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #48 on: 28 April 2022, 07:23:07 »
Did they say 25th century?  Huh.

Really enjoyed this week's Picard, excited for the last episode.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #49 on: 28 April 2022, 08:29:05 »
Um, what's _Optimum_?  Is it one of the novels?

cheers,

Gabe

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I am Belch II

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #50 on: 29 April 2022, 06:17:49 »
Did they say 25th century?  Huh.

Really enjoyed this week's Picard, excited for the last episode.

THere was a line in Season 4 about who was powerful enough to make the 10-C bubble that was wiping out planets. They brought up the Q,  Its a throw away line if when you watched it, got me thinking now with Picard.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #51 on: 29 April 2022, 06:27:31 »
So, reading you diagonally. Is Piccard worth picking up? I am faaaaar from a hardcore trekkie, more a casual watcher. So I enjoyed most of Disco as a painting miniatures background experience. Can Piccard fit the same niche or is it not worth it?

Any other worthwhile Trek shows I an raid for solo watching? the old shows (original, TNG and DS9) are already seen or I do not like them, so more modern stuff preferred.
« Last Edit: 29 April 2022, 06:29:30 by Elmoth »

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #52 on: 29 April 2022, 07:08:19 »
If you like NuTek them Picard should be worth while to you.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #53 on: 29 April 2022, 07:22:58 »
THere was a line in Season 4 about who was powerful enough to make the 10-C bubble that was wiping out planets. They brought up the Q,  Its a throw away line if when you watched it, got me thinking now with Picard.

I remember the line, I just didn't remember what timeframe they gave.

If you like NuTek them Picard should be worth while to you.

Agreed.  Picard is very much in the same sort of narrative space as DISCO, similar look and feel.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #54 on: 29 April 2022, 09:26:36 »
re:Picard:

Season 1 has a lot of 'what?' and 'so you're not actually going anywhere with this after all...' to it.

Season 2 is a bit better but still glosses over a lot of stuff like it never happened from Season 1.

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #55 on: 29 April 2022, 14:35:52 »
Strange New Worlds title sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndtCicnVvbc

That is, as they say, the good shit. 
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #56 on: 29 April 2022, 15:43:03 »
So, reading you diagonally. Is Piccard worth picking up? I am faaaaar from a hardcore trekkie, more a casual watcher. So I enjoyed most of Disco as a painting miniatures background experience. Can Piccard fit the same niche or is it not worth it?

Any other worthwhile Trek shows I an raid for solo watching? the old shows (original, TNG and DS9) are already seen or I do not like them, so more modern stuff preferred.

If the term "Romulan warrior nun" makes your ears perk up, you'll probably like the first series.  Lots of running from one fire into another frying pan.  The last episode does away with Data in a much better fashion than the Nemesis big screen movie.

If you liked the "wander through the past-present" part of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (I'm still waiting for some version of 'nuclear wwwessels' in Picard), you'll probably like series two.  It also gets a little heavy into the messaging aspect, which I'll leave there.

I'll note that there's a lot of missing-middle between the end of conventional/legacy Trek and the start of the first series that can get annoying; I found myself asking "Wait, what/when did that happen?" a bit, with some things apparently inheriting from the big screen reboot and/or a game (?).
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #57 on: 03 May 2022, 04:33:31 »
So SNW will be finally introducing the Enterprise’s previous captain, prior to Pike, Robert April to the live action screen. Previously, the closest he got was in a single episode of TAS.

Good to see this but if continuity brought back.

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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #58 on: 03 May 2022, 04:52:08 »
He's apparently in a couple of episodes, yeah.  He also got a shout out in DISCO as one of Starfleet's greatest captains.
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Re: Star Trek General Thread II: Strange New Posts
« Reply #59 on: 03 May 2022, 08:25:01 »
Unfortunately it has kicked off a new round of idiocy, as the Robert April seen in TAS was white.. while the actor chosen for SNW is Adrian Holmes, who is black. Which has led to a lot of "racism disguised as concern for canon" by the usual idiots.

All the people involved with the previous appearances in TAS and the supplimentary books are on board with the casting though.. including the writer who created the character in the first place.

https://trekmovie.com/2022/05/02/star-trek-the-animated-series-writer-welcomes-new-robert-april-on-strange-new-worlds/
« Last Edit: 03 May 2022, 08:28:46 by glitterboy2098 »