Widowmaker Dire Wolf has flippable arms!

[Lyran Archer]

I'm modding my Dire Wolves to be the Widowmaker versions but got a bit confused. I play the BattleTech CCG and this pic clearly shows the Widowmaker has flippable arms:



But the Camo Specs versions do not:

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3568

Neither does the thudgun.com 3D representations:



The record sheets, however, clearly show that there is absolutely no room in either arm for lower arm actuators (just shoulder and upper actuators like the Rifleman) so, according to page 106 of Total Warfare, Widowmaker Dire Wolves should have flippable arms.

Am I right or are the Camo Specs and thudgun.com people right?

[DarkISI]

You are right. An Omnimech mounting PPCs in each arm couldn't even mount lower arm and hand actuators if it wanted to. So, yes, the Widowmaker has flippable arms.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Stats trump Art. Widowmaker has no lower arm actuators so can flip its arms.

[Greywind]

And you wonder why Art won't play with you any more.

[Mastergunz]

God! That card took forever to build and deploy but holy crap did it lay waste to things!  [rockon]

-Gunz

[VF1LAM]

Lyran Archer FTW!

[Siberian-troll]

Thank you for this pic. I never seen it earlier
And now I need to re-make my own "Widodmaker" again.  ;)

[HikageMaru]

I'm still not clear what "lower arm actuators" are.  Consider the Warhawk, or the Summoner, or the Hellbringer---they don't have lower arm actuators but they have that elbow joint.  The Mad Dog and Timber Wolf do have lower arm actuators.

For the longest time, I assumed that the shoulder actuator is what allowed the shoulder to move like you're doing the chicken dance, the upper arm actuator was also in the shoulder and allowed the arm to move like you were making the "blow your horn" sign to a Big Rig, and the lower arm actuator was the elbow.

Then I reckoned that the shoulder actuator was the whole shoulder, the upper arm actuator was the elbow, and the lower arm actuator was the wrist.

Now I'm convinced that the art and the stats have nothing to do with each other---which I think I read Herb mention in a thread about TROs.  It doesn't really make any sense to me, though---don't these mechs have space for lower arm actuators if you wanted them?

[john blackwell]

The Naga is shoulder only,
The Rifleman is shoulder and upper,
The Warhammer is shoulder, upper, and lower,
The Atlas has all of them.

I use those to mentally image what mechs should look like.  Stats trump art IMHO.

Fire at will!
JB

[Rockfish]

I am inclined to think that since the card game art is more accurate to the specs of the design, it trumps the official art.

Or at the very least, it would make an interesting model to bash. Probably easier to do with the omni-parts available than the official one.

[TheDean]

Wow! I want to make my own now, very nice find. As the community says: stats trump.

[IAMCLANWOLF]

Am I right or are the Camo Specs and thudgun.com people right?

You are correct sir. Technically all the Direwolf arms should look like the Rifleman (without a lower arm, or elbow actuator) save the right arm on configuration A, and both arms on Victors Prometheus. 

It's just one of those things that has slipped under the radar over the years. I would assume that the arms were supposed to all originally have lower arm actuators as shown in the new CAD and 3050U art. However you also have to remember that the original art was just a straight view - blueprint style image for all of the 3050 Omnis, so it was likely a little difficult to deceiver details from those images. 

In any case - the CCG art is more accurate with the cannon record sheets, save the above mentioned variants.

[HikageMaru]

So someone explain to me why the Dire Wolf couldn't have lower arm actuators.  The stat sheet seems to show plenty of room for 'em.

[DarkISI]

Construction rules don't allow for lower arm or hand actuators on Omnimechs, if you install PPCs, ACs or Gauss weapons.

[Papabees]

Construction rules don't allow for lower arm or hand actuators on Omnimechs, if you install PPCs, ACs or Gauss weapons.

Wow. I'm a 20 yr vet and I've never noticed that before.

[Lyran Archer]

Construction rules don't allow for lower arm or hand actuators on Omnimechs, if you install PPCs, ACs or Gauss weapons.

Wow! The Timber Wolf/Mad Cat with the PPCs should look a lot different then.

[DarkISI]

Wow! The Timber Wolf/Mad Cat with the PPCs should look a lot different then.

It should look a bit like the Mad Cat IV (Savage Wolf)

[Akalabeth]

Wow! The Timber Wolf/Mad Cat with the PPCs should look a lot different then.

All the art should look a lot different. Though quite frankly it should be the other way around really. The stats should match the artwork. Personally if I'm driving something like a Hellbringer Prime I don't flip the arms regardless because the miniature doesn't look it should be able to.

[beachhead1985]

All the art should look a lot different. Though quite frankly it should be the other way around really. The stats should match the artwork. Personally if I'm driving something like a Hellbringer Prime I don't flip the arms regardless because the miniature doesn't look it should be able to.

bingo.

i used to know a guy who liked to punch with locusts...sigh, but the record sheets originally showed hand and lower arms actuators...

[StCptMara]

I have an Executioner Prime that I use, where I replaced the normal Executioner Gauss arm with the same arm from a Mad Cat mk II. It
is a gauss arm(from something about the same tonnage), and it CLEARLY does not have lower arm or hand actuators, unlike the
official arm that looks like it has a lower arm actuator.

But, yeah..I believe that the artists have gotten better at depicting those sorts of things in recent years...

[HikageMaru]

All the art should look a lot different. Though quite frankly it should be the other way around really. The stats should match the artwork. Personally if I'm driving something like a Hellbringer Prime I don't flip the arms regardless because the miniature doesn't look it should be able to.

Then half the OmniMechs will have Rifleman arms.  No thanks.  Frankly, I don't understand the rule of no hand or lower arm actuators in an OmniMech with certain armaments.  I reckon it's for game balance, but at least give 'em the lower arm actuator.  If you think about it, missing a lower arm actuator should make it slightly more difficult to aim.

[HikageMaru]

bingo.

i used to know a guy who liked to punch with locusts...sigh, but the record sheets originally showed hand and lower arms actuators...

I think you can still punch without hand or lower arm actuators---you just do half damage on a +2 to hit, am I wrong?

[SteelRaven]

Pardon my ignorance but does the lower arm actuator actually make a difference in gameplay?

[Lyran Archer]

Pardon my ignorance but does the lower arm actuator actually make a difference in gameplay?

If neither arm has lower arm actuators you can flip both arms 180 degrees to fire directly in your rear arc with all weapons on both arms. It can really make a difference to some poor light 'Mech who just jumped into your rear arc.

[StCptMara]

If neither arm has lower arm actuators you can flip both arms 180 degrees to fire directly in your rear arc with all weapons on both arms. It can really make a difference to some poor light 'Mech who just jumped into your rear arc.

Also:
No hand Actuator means half punch damage, +1 to punch difficulty,
no Lower Arm actuator is half damage again, and an additional +1 to punch difficulty.
Thus, a Dire Wolf punches, it has a +2 penalty to hit, and (10/2/2, round up) 3 damage

[SteelRaven]

Thanks for the education.
Man, I've could have been doing crazy stuff with the Blackjack and MadCat MK2 [metalhealth]

[Adrian Gideon]

Stats trump Art. Widowmaker has no lower arm actuators so can flip its arms.

Stats trump art in gameplay. Art is art, fluff is fluff, stats are stats. Stats effect gameplay, art and fluff do not. Mod the mini to reflect the stats, or mod it to reflect official artwork. Its art! Do what you want and enjoy.