Tomahawk Clan Wolf prototype assault mech?

[DaveMac]

In the Battlecorps story "The Price of Conviction", set in 3063, mention is made of the Tomahawk prototype 100t omnimech fielded by Clan Wolf

Details of the Beta version include 2 ER PPC, 2 ER LL and a number of medium ER and pulse lasers

Speed is probably the classic 3/5

Anyone know any further info on it?
 

[Onisuzume]

Maybe the author of that bit knows more, but I think its likely to be just a Fanon design.
Sarna doesn't have a mention of it at all (only a Tomahawk ASF).

[Arkansas Warrior]

It's in a BC story, it's canon.  Sarna not having anything on it doesn't mean a whole lot.  As far as I know the one story is it's only occurrence.  I'm hoping for an appearance in XTRO: Clans or some other future product, but we'll see.  Also, it's interesting to note that it sounds suspiciously similar to a Turkina, though I have no idea why the Wolves would be making a 100 ton Turkina when they've already got the Dire Wolf.

[Spheroid]

I have no idea why the Wolves would be making a 100 ton Turkina when they've already got the Dire Wolf.

Are new Dire Wolves availble in the Inner Sphere? 

[Stormfury]

I don't know of anywhere that is manufacturing them in the IS, no.

After the Ghost Bears and Hell's Horses captured most of the Wolves' factories and contact with the Homeworlds was lost, the Wolves upgraded their factories on Tamar... which the Word of Blacke promtly wrecked. Vlad's Wolves are hurting badly for material, especially good designs. Sun Cobra? Night Wolf? Really?

I keep meaning to post updated, capable designs for both chassis with a write-up detailing Vlad ordering the execution of everyone assigned to either project.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Even so, seems like it'd be easier to restart DW production, since they already had the plans and had been manufacturing them for decades, rather than design a whole new chassis with roughly the same capabilities.

[Stormfury]

Actually, the only Wolves manufacturing the Dire Wolf were the Wolf Dragoons. The Smoke Jaguars were the Homeworlds producer.

[Arkansas Warrior]

TRO 3050u says that Ulric trialed for production rights from the Jags in 3019, and it's listed as in production at "Wolf Clan Site #1" on Strana Mechty, presumably as of 3071.

[Stormfury]

The facility might be manufactuing it by then still, but the Wolves are well and truly cut off from it.

[Arkansas Warrior]

True.  Anyway, I hope we do see it in the future, I've been wondering ever since I read that story when we'd get the full story.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

TRO3085 Supplemental mentions that the Wolves are starting IS production of Omnis that were previously only built in the Homeworlds, so we may yet see the Dire Wolf saved from extinction.

[DaveMac]

Thanks for the info folks, looks like its a bit of a mystery for the moment.

[Deadborder]

Could be a mech that, for some reason or another, never sees production. Being nuked by WoBBies is a good start.

As for the Dire Woof, its been established that it takes a lot more resources and infrastructure to build an Omnimech facotry and then build Omnis then for a conventional Battlemech. Vlad was reluctant to build omni foacotries in the Inner Sphere and had decided that the clan could suffice on homeworld supplies. Following the start of the Jihad, the Wolves have been left short on supplies and tech, hence mechs like the Tundra Wolf and Sun Cobra - basically, all they are capable of producing.

Given that the Outreach factories are so much irradiated rubble, I doubt that we'll ever see Dire Woof production in the IS again.

[GBL]

Tomahawk? 2 ER PPC's? Sounds familiar.

[ShadowRaven]

Nah, Clans already have Warhammer IIC's Unless they uped the tonnage to add some more guns....NAH...a BC author would never do that......

[Stockus13]

Well in the ask the writers section a while ago it was doubtful the Tomahawk will appear. I am campaigning for the Iron Cheetah to be put into a TRO so the wolves will have a 4/6 100 tonner omni. I agree we do not need a Dire Wolf copy.

[Hellraiser]

The Tomahawk-Omni is canon.

It was "supposed" to make it into TRO3075 but got left out.
It's future is uncertain since now they are not sure where they will fit it in.

I think XTRO-Clans would be a very good place to fit it in there.

As for the stats, it doesn't have any yet outside what is mentioned in that story on BC.

It seems likely to be similar to the D-Wolf given the weapons load mentioned.

Perhaps it uses Endo/Ferro, or doesn't have an XL engine.

I'm almost kind of hoping it turns out to be the "MWDA" name for an IS produced DireWolf like the way the MadDog, Summoner, & T-Wolf all got "new" incarnations with same or slightly different stats/looks.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Tomahawk-Omni is canon.

It was "supposed" to make it into TRO3075 but got left out.
It's future is uncertain since now they are not sure where they will fit it in.

Source?

[Hellraiser]

Source?

The source that it is canon is the above mentioned article on BC website.

The source as to its fate was a response on the old forums that we talked about in the Wolf thread last year after TRO3075 came out.

I don't have a link but that was the response we discussed.

[Arkansas Warrior]

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,13713.0.html
 
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,31750.0.html
 
One of those, perhaps?

[Hellraiser]

Thanks AW, those are 2 of the older ones.

I think there was another one from AFTER 3075 came out where it was mentioned that it was "forgotten".

But as we can see, as of those threads it looks like it will see print at some point, just not sure when.

Personally I like the XTRO idea, since it was a prototype and all.

[Hellraiser]

IIRC the story has it listed at 100 tons while the design that won the contest was 95.

Either way at 3/5/0 w/ XL it comes across as a minor variant of the DWolf or Turkina.

I'd like to see it changed over to be a SFE or something different to give it a unique feel.

[Wolf Lancer 4]

I was expecting the Tomahawk to be in TRO 3075.  Once I saw that it wasnt included I asked about it in one of the Battlecorps monthly chats.

The response I got was from Randall saying it was his fault that the mech didnt make it in there.

I asked sometime last year about the mech again and Herb told me that we are unlikely to see the mech.

I keep hoping that it will someday see the light of day(just as adamant about it as I was about Operation Klondike) but Im not getting my hopes up.  I kept hoping that it would be squeezed into a Hotspot book and it be explained that nobody had seen it to that point or some such thing.  I to hope it might be in the Clan XTRO but I doubt that as well.  There is one product it could go into but means they would have to actually make a Turning Point PDF for the Horse vs Wolf war(which I doubt we will see).  Seeing as how Omega Galaxy was doing the field tests they might still have one or two by the time the Horses absorbed them.

It sucks that we have another 100 ton omni that is canon but will probably never see the light of day.  Especially since my Clan is the one that designed it.

[Stockus13]

Maaaaan. I really want that mech to appear in a TRO.

I think 4/6 movement would be great at making it different than a Dire Wolf.

Keeping my fingers crossed on this one.

[Hellraiser]

Maaaaan. I really want that mech to appear in a TRO.

I think 4/6 movement would be great at making it different than a Dire Wolf. 

The problem w/ 4/6 is it then goes against what other things we know about it, like devoting 50+ tons to pod space and having that massive ERPPC/ERLL battery.
Frankly, I'm not interested in it being an Iron Cheetah clone, but thats me.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Of course, it could be that it was redesigned for 4/6 movement.  The one in the story is just a prototype, not the finished product.  Throw in some other changes and 'design issues' and you have the reason it took so long to produce.

[Davion_Boy_74]

I remember that there was a web site with both a story & stats for this 'Mech, & it was not BattleCorps, does any one else remember this site & more importantly got a working link, as I did save it but I lost it when I lost my old HD.

Thanks.

Dave.

[Hellraiser]

I remember that there was a web site with both a story & stats for this 'Mech, & it was not BattleCorps, does any one else remember this site & more importantly got a working link, as I did save it but I lost it when I lost my old HD.

If you click the CBT thread links that AW posted above I think you will find a link on one of them to the other site that had the stats for it from the contest that was won, IIRC.
However, as that was fan made Randal had to change it a bit for the story on BC.
That is when it was bumped from 95 to 100 tons IIRC.

[Davion_Boy_74]

Thanks  [notworthy], I missed those links  :-[, & Yes the 2rd link took me to the web site I remembered  [rockon] .

Dave.

[Stockus13]

I hope it gets put into print at some point.

I can be patient. I hope.

[majesticmoose]

Personally, I think it'd be interesting to see a 2/3/3 CFE + compact Gyro + iJJ + Partial wing 100 ton prototype.  Doing that would allow it to mount still impressive pod space, play with crit allocation, and make HS an interesting challange.

Not optomized, but one of the smoothest 100 ton bricks with wings around.

Probably not though, seeign as that may go against the fiction already generated about it.

[Stormfury]

The Clans do not have such gyros or engines.

[Stockus13]

Why would you want a 2/3/3 mech?

I would be very ticked off with that movement profile.

3/5 seems slow enough.

[Stormfury]

Even if they did have the technologies suggested, the result would be a machine offering only 36 tons of pod space and 34 crits to use it.

[majesticmoose]

Why would you want a 2/3/3 mech?

I would be very ticked off with that movement profile.

3/5 seems slow enough.

I meant 2/3/5.  My mistake.

And Give me a page number that says compact fusion engines and compact gyros don't exist in the clans.

as to weight, let me see.

100
-5 (ES IS)
-13 (engine)
-3 (cockpit)
-3 (compact gyro)
-12 iJJ
-5 Partial wing
-19 armor
=40 tons pod space.

crits are 51 (assuming actuators are romeved in the arms)
-7 (ES IS)
-6 iJJ
-4 partial wing (or is it 6...AFB)
+3 (CFE)
+2 (Compact Gyro)
-4 DHS
= 35, maybe 33 depending on if it's 4, or 6 for the partial wing.

The mech would be well armored, mobile (5 jump MP) and it would generate no heat on a full jump thanks to the partial wing.  So it's not quite a "winner", neither is it bad.  I think this would be interesting, as it's a move in the "prototype" or "expiramental" direction, and lord knows the clans could use some of that...

[Stormfury]

P. 215, Tech Manual, states the Clans have access to the following engine types- Standard, Clan XL, Fuel Cell, Fission, ProtoMech, DropShip/Small Craft and Support Vehicles.

P. 220 of Tech Manual states the Clans have the Standard gyro only.

Partial Wings occupy 3 slots per torso. They also provide assault 'Mechs with one, not two, additional MPs.

With Endo Steel you get 40 tons of pod space and 33 crits to use it with.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gargoyle. Even a Gargoyle Prime.

[majesticmoose]

P. 215, Tech Manual, states the Clans have access to the following engine types- Standard, Clan XL, Fuel Cell, Fission, ProtoMech, DropShip/Small Craft and Support Vehicles.

P. 220 of Tech Manual states the Clans have the Standard gyro only.

Partial Wings occupy 3 slots per torso. They also provide assault 'Mechs with one, not two, additional MPs.

With Endo Steel you get 40 tons of pod space and 33 crits to use it with.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gargoyle. Even a Gargoyle Prime.

Ah... my mistake... but if the Mech were to appear in an XTRO, then it could easily have all those components.

You preferance is noted.  I'm not saying it's great.  But I don't see why a clan 100 ton omni needs to be great.  It's a prototype, one that clearly is having a hard time finding a niche because there are few ways to differentiate one 100 ton unit from another.

Look at the suggestions above... "It should use a SFE."  "It should be 4/6."  Yeah... because there aren't 100 ton mechs with a SFE or that move 4/6.

If you want offer a design (well not a design, wrong board for that, but a concept) that shows a different tac the clans could take...
How about ferro-lamellar?  A quad Omni? Compsite structure? Reinforced structure?  Mechanical Jump Boosters? What niche should the Tomahawk fill that a DW (or others) can't fill?

[Stormfury]

You preferance is noted.  I'm not saying it's great.  But I don't see why a clan 100 ton omni needs to be great.

Because a 100-ton OmniMech represents the pinnacle of Clan 'Mech engineering. It's a massive investment from an R&D perspective and for materials/infrastructure.

A 2/3/4 machine offering less tonnage and space for its payload than a Nova Cat does not fit that profile. It is one thing to have a design that is not quite perfect, and another to have something that is a failed chassis right at the start.

Compact Engines and Gyros are an IS technology. The Partial Wing is a Jade Falcon item. Having them on what is supposed to be a cutting-edge new Omni for Clan Wolf does not make sense.

If it were up to me to give the Wolves a (desperately needed) good new Omni, it would be a 3/5, XL engined 100 tonner with two fixed Double Heat Sinks and Endo Steel beneath full armour, leaving 58 tons of pod space. Simple and highly effective.

If you really want to use experimental technologies, 100 tons, 300 XL, Endo-Composite internal structure, 2 fixed Double Heat Sinks in the engine, and an AES for each arm with 19 tons of armour and 50 tons of pod space would still be more than novel.

[majesticmoose]

That's not a bad idea. 

But from a game design standpoint (one that IIRC has been commented on in the designs for TRO 3085) a what you just mentioned is a DW, slightly modified. (with ESC IS, and AES)  I'm not sayign that it's bad, or not enough for me, but from a design standpoint you could basically just make that a DW and be done with it...

When I think of stock BT mechs, especially clan omni's, I need differentiation in the units.  and I suspect not just me.  My Suspicion is that the designers want units that differ, not just simple pinnacles of Tech.

I mean, Frankly, the DW is about as optomized as a 100 clanner is gonna be.  So what can you do to a 100 ton mech that fills a different niche? 

I do like the idea of the AES.  maybe placing that ina 4/6 LFE frame, with maxed integral DHS would give something different enough.  You could light that sucker up with energy weapons, and it'd have plenty of crit space for more DHS.

I dunno.  But if all that the clans are making is more of the same then that's not a reason to publish a mech, you know?  At least not to me.

[DaveMac]

There are a number of examples of designs using the same base chassis but differing enough to be considered separate designs. Maybe CWiE can make the Dire Wolf chassis, or had some knocking around, but were not able to make some of the parts the design required.  Instead they had a go at using what they did have to make as close an approximation of the parent design as possible and decided to call it the Tomahawk.   

[Kit deSummersville]

The Clans do not have such gyros or engines.

Well they do, like the IS has Clan LPLs.  ;)

[Sid]

  Isn't the Tomahawk the 'mech that was the result from the K'Nex contest?

  A few years ago K'Nex released Battletech models.  Supposedly they held a contest that would let the winner get his own home brewed design canonized into the game.  I think that's the Tomahawk.

  Of course, Battletech has changed a few companies now, and it's appeared in a Battlecorps story, so it's been "canonized".  As I recall from the story, it was just a prototype that was being trialed before the Jihad.

  The prototypes/production lines could have gone up in smoke, literally, in the scouring of Tamar...

[Onisuzume]

I meant 2/3/5.  My mistake.

A 2/3/4 machine offering

I thought that JJs allowed Jump MP up to walk MP, with IJJs allowing Jump MP up to running MP?
In which case the best you'd be looking at it 2/3/3, not much of an improvement over 2/3/2 at the cost of 8 tons.

The Partial Wing is a Jade Falcon item. Having them on what is supposed to be a cutting-edge new Omni for Clan Wolf does not make sense.

The Draconis Combine (or republic?) is busy reverse-engineering it, afaik (Ref. SDR-8X Spider).
Also it wouldn't be too unlikely that the puppies would've called a Trial of Posession for the rights to make the technology.

[Kit deSummersville]

I thought that JJs allowed Jump MP up to walk MP, with IJJs allowing Jump MP up to running MP?
In which case the best you'd be looking at it 2/3/3, not much of an improvement over 2/3/2 at the cost of 8 tons.The

A partial wing would give it an extra Jump MP in standard atmosphere.

[Onisuzume]

A partial wing would give it an extra Jump MP in standard atmosphere.

*facepalm*
Forgot about that, yes... :-[

[Hellraiser]

  Isn't the Tomahawk the 'mech that was the result from the K'Nex contest?

  A few years ago K'Nex released Battletech models.  Supposedly they held a contest that would let the winner get his own home brewed design canonized into the game.  I think that's the Tomahawk.

Not sure if it was K'Nex, but it was some kind of contest AFAIK.

[Stockus13]

Well at least it is Canon. I just wish we had stats for it, official stats.

Was there ever any art for it?

[Hellraiser]

Was there ever any art for it?

On a non-canon site.
Check the threads linked above by AW.
One of them gives a further link to an site elsewhere that has a couple pictures of what looked like in theory.
To me it was kind of a Viper+DireWolf look...... or DireWolf-LAM type look, it just seems flatter, wingish.  But thats IMHO.

[Onisuzume]

I'd assume that some people would like to see said fanon artwork...

[Stockus13]

Yes please :)

[Sid]

I'd assume that some people would like to see said fanon artwork...

It's been said many times that it was linked in a post that Arkansas Warrior put up earlier.

For those that can't be bothered to go and click that link and scroll a couple posts, here:

http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tomahawk

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