Fun level one mechs for new players?

[CPLT-C1]

Hello all,

I was recently gifted some old Battletech stuff. Hadn't played in years and was inspired to pick up a few of the new core rule books and try and get my gaming group into it.

I'm a fan of the 3025 era and will probably have 4 players. We'll probably play a team and a free-for-all.

What would be a good group of battlemechs be for both balance and fun? Any of the variants using level one tech are cool.

Weapons that will keep the game moving instead of slow attrition will probably keep everyone's interest better for a 1st game.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

I would say that the types of mech chassis will determine the game length as well as the weapons. Smaller mechs, slow mechs, underarmored mechs and mechs stuffed with ammo bins are easier to kill.

Something like a HBK-4G Hunchback mixes a big gun with a small frame and low ground speed. The ARC-2R Archer and CPLT-C1 Catapult have good punch, they both fling a lot of missiles downfield (and are good for teaching LRM min-range to new players). The WHM-6R hits pretty hard and has relatively thin armor and some explodey ammo. Any of the old Rifleman variants are worth a look, they tend to mix thin armor with decent weaponry (and a brutal heat curve, another good thing for new players to get familiar with early on). The BJ-1DB Blackjack, the one with the large lasers instead of the AC2s, has solid firepower on a small frame.

Hope this helps!

[Nibs]

Incredibly fast 'Mechs are fun. Of course, difficult to learn how to use properly, but the fun of blasting one around the map at top speed, even if it tends to useless as a shooter, is great for a new player!

Maybe an Assassin?

[Blackjack Jones]

Going to speak in general terms since this is a rather broad subject.

  Well, if a slow attrition match is a concern, try to stay away from everyone taking assaults
(and depending on game size even heavies),  thou an odd 'Big' 'Mech on each side can
sometimes speed the match up, as they can have enough punch to knock a lighter 'Mech quickly.

  Most of the 'Unseen' 'Mechs (the ones based off of Macross, Dougram, ans Crusher Joe art)
tend to be favorites not just because of their looks but the fact their game stats lend them
to be effective designs.

  There are a few other designs out there that are general favorites.  The Hunchback can
be a good introduction 'Mech.  It has one big gun, you run at the enemy and you try to shoot
them with it.  The Vindicator, Enforcer, and Centurion are all good starters as
well, being decent all-around choices.

  Another idea would be look at whatever factions the players think are interesting and grab some
'Mechs that they use as a departure point to start narrowing down the list.

  If nothing else, grab some mediums and have at it, the players (and well as yourself) will
come to choose some favorites in the course of a couple games.

  As for balance, 3025 'Mechs can be reasonably balanced by both sides keeping to the same
total tonnage (and the same number of units) , but if the material you have has Battle Value (BV)
info for the designs on them, that might be a safer bet for balance (and a habit to get into for
matches where opposing sides have different tech).

[Saint]

Give us a list of what you have. :)

[CPLT-C1]

I've got just about everything in the form of card stock print outs. As for actual metal, I've got an Atlas, 2 Zeus, Catapult, spider, Jenner and Trebuchet.

The hard part is coming up with four different but equal mechs that everyone will enjoy...

[maddyfish]

The jenner with the SRMs, fast, fair armor, good weapons

[mutantmagnet]

The following are mechs I would equate with fun.

When it comes to assaults the Stalker, Highlander, King Crab, Marauder II and Battlemaster are fun.

Certain Noobs accidentally get into the thick of things and the Stalker, Battlemaster excel when surrounded.
Other noobs just like playing without Penalties. The closest assaults with no penalties is the Marauder II, Banshee and Imp and the Marauder has the least issues of the bunch.
Some noobs just want the biggest wow alpha. Nothing tops the King crab in that dept.
Other noobs want to be in the protective womb of an assault chassis but want to have the flexibility of trooper medium mechs only the Highlander and Crockett fills that niche and I have issues with the Crockett.

When it comes to heavies Thunderbolts is pretty much all you need but their are various niches that are better filled by Heavies than assaults trying to do the same. Those would be the Grand Dragon and Archers.

When it comes to mediums Wolverines is pretty much all you need but there are niches mediums fill that other chassis don't. In those cases you would want to consider PPC Cicada, Scorpion, Trebuchet, and Turbo Hunchback (this is Hunchback that moves 5/8 and only has a small laser as a back up weapon to the AC 20 (do not I repeat do not use the normal hunchbacks)

When it comes to light mechs the Wolfhound, Jenner, JAvelin, Firestarter, Dart and Locust fill very different roles in such a wide way that makes them fun to use.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I strongly recommend avoiding mechs that depend on speed when it comes to training new players.  Movement can be excessively complex, and if they're in something that needs to go fast or die, they're just going to get shot up.  Not something that's likely to encourage them to come back.

[Falchion]

Urbanmechs, Ostscouts, and Locusts.

[MEP]

It may be obvious (avatar), but I have to suggest a Locust. I think it's important to introduce players to fast mechs early so that they can learn the value of maneuvering and using terrain to their advantage.

EDIT: Of course, that also includes other fast (but less cool) mechs like Jenners, Ostscouts and Spiders.

[Stormforge]

First game I played when I was first introduced to Battletech was a Grasshopper 5H. After that game I was hooked even though I lost.  #P

[CPLT-C1]

How does this set look to everyone?

Blackjack	BJ-1DB	BV: 1,015
Pheonix Hawk	PXH-1	BV: 1,041
Vindicator	VND-1R	BV: 1,024
Wyvern	WVE-6N	BV: 1,005

[WarMonkey]

How does this set look to everyone?

Blackjack	BJ-1DB	BV: 1,015
Pheonix Hawk	PXH-1	BV: 1,041
Vindicator	VND-1R	BV: 1,024
Wyvern	WVE-6N	BV: 1,005

Looks good. I was going to suggest the Hunchback, Centurion, Enforcer, Crab route, but what you have looks good enough; mobility with half of them and bigger guns on the rest.

[Spheroid]

I always liked the Dervish.

[mutantmagnet]

I strongly recommend avoiding mechs that depend on speed when it comes to training new players.  Movement can be excessively complex, and if they're in something that needs to go fast or die, they're just going to get shot up.  Not something that's likely to encourage them to come back.

I would hazard a guess you must of had allowed your newbies to play with too many units with drastically different speeds or you are confusing their frustration to having less fun instead of being a good learning process.

For most people just encourage usage of similar speed sets and the obvious signs of frustration doesn't occur.

Otherwise just consider what type of mentality the player has and they might like a little suffering in the sense it shows areas they can improve in. A little challenge early on makes the gaming experience more enjoyable in the next game they play, for these type of people.

[Moonsword]

The 4/6 and 5/8 mediums are pretty solid and encourage a diversity of tactics - Trebuchets are going to handle very differently from Crabs or Hunchbacks.

[Kovax]

The best setup, in my opinion, would be to run two games:

the first using fairly slow and decently armed and armored mediums like the Centurion, Hunchback, or Enforcer.  That teaches the basics of movement and shooting, without getting complicated by other concerns.

the second using fast and light units like the Locust, Wasp, and Stinger.  That teaches the value of movement modifiers, initiative, proper use of terrain, and tactical position.

If you only teach "fire tactics", using heavy or assault 'Mechs, it gives the impression that it's just a game about rolling dice.  The players don't get a feel for the flow of a battle, the gaining and losing of tactical position and momentum, and all of the other "nebulous" aspects that seperate a "strategy game" from "a game of chance".

[Moonsword]

Force them to use lights to go after mediums.  The experience is educational.  Beyond that, it teaches that maneuver, position, terrain, and initiative are important, lessons with direct applications even in the larger units... but they don't penetrate as well there.

For teaching heat, the Stalker and Awesome are great.

[beaumontbrawler]

If you stick to the 45-55 ton range, you've got a number of good and relatively balanced units to choose from . . . that's what I'd do for a bunch of beginners.

[mensa12345]

I recently taught the kiddies to play.  We used Phoenix Hawk-Ds.  Simple design, only a few weapons to master. 

[Sartris]

I picked my favorite from each weight class, then listed some variants that I enjoy playing with

Light: Jenner JR7-F
Medium: Wolverine WVR-6M
Heavy: Thunderbolt TDR-5SE
Assault: Banshee BNC-3S

Javelin JVN-10F
Wolfhound WLF-1
Cicada CDA-3C
Blackjack BJ-1DB
Hatchetman HCT-3F
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1K
Crab CRB-20
Hunchback HBK-4G
Huchback HBK4P
Hoplite HOP-4B
Grand Dragon DRG-1G
Catapult CPLT-C1
Catapult CPLT-C4
Exterminator EXT-4A
Guillotine GLT-4L
Warhammer WHM-6D
Black Knight BL-7-KNT
Flashman FLS-7K
Orion ON1-K
Awesome AWS-8Q
Charger CGR-1A5
Battlemaster BLR-1G
Stalker STK-3F

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I would hazard a guess you must of had allowed your newbies to play with too many units with drastically different speeds or you are confusing their frustration to having less fun instead of being a good learning process.

Good guess, but you're wrong.  I try to stick with 5/8 mechs when I'm teaching, but I've seen other people just toss completely inexperienced players into whatever light mech they had sitting around- the first time I ever played I ended up with a Mercury, which was an extremely unpleasant experience for me- if I hadn't driven to the place with another player, I'd probably have quite.  After the Merc got destroyed, I ended up with a Panther, which was much more fun for someone of my experience level- I could just park on a ridge and snipe at the Wasps and Javelins with my PPC.

For most people just encourage usage of similar speed sets and the obvious signs of frustration doesn't occur.

Otherwise just consider what type of mentality the player has and they might like a little suffering in the sense it shows areas they can improve in. A little challenge early on makes the gaming experience more enjoyable in the next game they play, for these type of people.

For some people it does, but for many getting burned the first game leaves little interest in having a second game.

[Sockmonkey]

Just make sure it's something with average or better armor for it's weight class so they live long enough to learn something.

[Moonsword]

I really think mediums are, for most purposes, excellent learning 'Mechs.  I recommend the Stalker and Awesome for heat because both reward learning the lessons well, and heat is one of those things you just have to learn to manage.  Stalkers also offer insight into "heat is not bad" and "too much heat is VERY bad" - pushing one sometimes is fine, but push it hard enough and the 'Mech is going bye-bye.

[XaosGorilla]

I recently taught the kiddies to play.  We used Phoenix Hawk-Ds.  Simple design, only a few weapons to master. 

     Good idea.  Everyone using the same machine prevents a bad mismatch(LRM/PPC Griffin vs. AC20 Hunchback). Further, it allows each player to most easily learn from what all the other players do(or don't).  Because no player has a mechanical advantage, the use of cover, the movement type used, and heat management become more important.  The only downside is that a lucky die roll becomes more significant.
     Beyond that, I'd look for a Mech that has jets, at least a slight heat problem(to teach heat management), and MAYBE a weapon with a significant minimum range.  Finding all that on one Mech might be difficult.
     As for a  specific mech, a Shadow Hawk comes to mind, the Phoenix Hawk is also a good choice, my personal preference is a Thunderbolt, even though it doesn't have jets, nor is it a medium.
you may want to try running one game with jet equipped mechs, and one without.  No better way to teach a new player how useful jets are.....
     Either way, have FUN!

[Kamov]

I'm partial to Whitworths for training.  Learn to bracket fire!  Play around with jumping vs. running.  See how ammo is dangerous, and how crit sinks can sometimes save you from explosion. 

It's really the total package, and by not doing one thing particularly well, it lets new players start to figure out what they would want to improve about it (speed, firepower, armor, etc) so they have a direction to go when picking new machines for future battles.

[Scotty]

JR7-F

Painful little bastard. :D

[Moonsword]

It's really the total package, and by not doing one thing particularly well, it lets new players start to figure out what they would want to improve about it (speed, firepower, armor, etc) so they have a direction to go when picking new machines for future battles.

Funny, for that size, I always thought it was an excellent take on the LRM boat with enough other capabilities to be flexible.

[Kamov]

I've always viewed the Whitworth as having a traditional damage curve (rising as range decreases), which to me keeps it from being an LRM boat.

[vindicator]

a game i always found fun for new players is an all Panther Match. It gives them a long range and short range weapon, a Jump capable mech, teaches them about heat control and no one has an advantage over some one else.

Just a thought

Vindie

[Hellraiser]

Hello all,

I was recently gifted some old Battletech stuff. Hadn't played in years and was inspired to pick up a few of the new core rule books and try and get my gaming group into it.

I'm a fan of the 3025 era and will probably have 4 players. We'll probably play a team and a free-for-all.

What would be a good group of battlemechs be for both balance and fun? Any of the variants using level one tech are cool.

Weapons that will keep the game moving instead of slow attrition will probably keep everyone's interest better for a 1st game.

Any advice is appreciated.

For a "Fast" paced game that doesn't last all day, but is fun to play and yet doesn't get to "tactical" I personally feel you can never go wrong with about 150-200 tons of L1 Medium mechs.

Things like the Centurion, Vindicator, Enforcer, Trebuchet, & Blackjack are some great options.

I like the 4/6/x pattern because it keeps to hit #s low for a quicker game and gives those mediums a bit more tonnage for firepower options.

By the time you hit the 55 ton trio of 5/8/5 variants you can get a machine that can dodge & weave all day, and drag out.  Great for a more tactical game but not the best for a 1st timer feel.
Likewise faster lights do this even more though w/ less armor.
And Heavy/Assault boats just pack in so much armor that you get the "Zombie" effect.

[foxbat]

WHM-6R Warhammers.
Sensible movement without JJs, so you'll have to learn how to expand your MPs properly.
Severe heat issues, so you'll have to watch this as well (and they tend to do it, after I've pointed out the heat scale to them  ;D)
Tiered weapons (I don't tell them outright, but they don't usually take long to figure it out. Tactics 1.0 eh eh)
And an armour that's fairly easily breached, so battles won't take ages.

[Hellraiser]

I've got just about everything in the form of card stock print outs. As for actual metal, I've got an Atlas, 2 Zeus, Catapult, spider, Jenner and Trebuchet.

The hard part is coming up with four different but equal mechs that everyone will enjoy...

Well of the metal minis I'd say the 2 Zeus', Catapult, & Trebuchet are all in the "close" catagory, some BV adjustments for skills will even things out a bit as well as perhaps some variant chassis.

The Atlas, Spider, & Jenner fall into the "very specialized" catagory for me in L1 play and will very likely drag things out.

[IndyRI]

I've always found that the best introductory mechs are ones that let a player learn all of the basic bells and whistles of the game (heat, JJs, ammo, energy), while still being durable and dependable. For 3025-play, the poster childs for this are definitely the Grasshopper and Guillotine. It's really even odds which is better. I tend towards the 'Hopper, others prefer the G'tine. Either one gives you everything you could want in a mech to learn the game with, and as a bonus, they're both fairly usable even with the introduction of new technology, so you won't need to buy new minis or learn a new mech!

[JPArbiter]

the centurion is a great all arounder that fits in almost any lance

the Locust is extremely versatile if you use the variants

the three medium Missile boats (whitworth, Trebuchet, Dervish) are all decent teaching tools, and allow a player to develop a play style since they all act differently.

I would hesitate in introducing assault class mechs until they are comfortable with anything below 70 tons

[agustaaquila]

I would suggest medium mechs of 4/6/x which carry a large gun and several small guns.  This allows you to break through armor with 10+ hits, and so the game speeds up.  My person favorites are the vindicator and and enforcer, but there are other mechs that fit the profile.  I would recommend against the hunchback, for while its gun is huge is can be a very long time to bring it to targets at more than long range.  Of course, you could include a swayback variant, but the important thing is to have fun while teaching them.

[topcat]

Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Dervish, Wolverine.  Everyone gets mobility and a range of weapons.  Some run cool, some don't.  Ammo all around.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I've always found the classic Awesome 8Q to be exceptionally easy to run.  May not be the best for teaching the game but it's easy for a newbie to pick up and go with.  Likewise the Hunchback.

[target_destroyed]

I'm partial to Whitworths for training.  Learn to bracket fire!  Play around with jumping vs. running.  See how ammo is dangerous, and how crit sinks can sometimes save you from explosion. 

It's really the total package, and by not doing one thing particularly well, it lets new players start to figure out what they would want to improve about it (speed, firepower, armor, etc) so they have a direction to go when picking new machines for future battles.

I agree w/ this. W/ 2 distinct weapon types, the Whitworth is easy for a new player to handle and learn the game without worrying about an excessive number of options.

[TJHairball]

BNC-3E is a very easy ride to give to the newest player in a group, who isn't quite up to handling overheat and jumping.

The Panther has gotten some good reactions from newbies IME. It's not terribly complicated but can handle itself quite respectably.

[Moonsword]

Oh, yeah.  A Wolfhound can do the same thing, even against mediums - you basically have to tear it apart limb from limb to get it to stop staggering to its feet and bugging the big guys.

[Schottenjaeger]

You know, the good old Chameleon is a really good heat-training mech, and it partners well with most other mediums. It also has some important lessons about mobility, learning when to use JJs, and teamwork.
Partner it with a non-jumping 5/8, and give one to each side, and I think your players will have a lot of fun.

[Iron Mongoose]

One mech that often gets thrown around is the Shadow Hawk.  Its quick enough that you can get a bonus for movement, so it rewards a mover, yet its sturdy enough that it dosen't excessivly punish someone who can't move well, its got one of each type of weapon (AC, laser, LRM, SRM) so you can learn the rules there, and its easy on heat.  For me, its nice to start of with an easy to use mech, if that's a Shadow Hawk or a Mad Dog C or Panther or what ever, and get the basics out of the way.  Movement, shooting, taking damage.  Heat is a more advanced concept, if only just very slightly more.  Do it after a game or two.  Do very high speed after a game or two.  Do lack of speed, assualts, only after you've demonstrated speed, or I think it can become a crutch to learning movement.

It depends a lot on the player.  It depends a lot on the group.  And it depends on if you have time to do several short games, or if you need a trial by fire and ok, here's your Tessen, watch out for ECM and try and get that iNARC and TAG in play so we can support you with LRM fire.  So long as it works.

[SteveUK]

in the 3025/39 time frame I still enjoy using the classic 55 tonners- Shadowhawk, Griffin and Wolverine, throw in a Vindicator and you have yourself an interesting mix. However if you want to really stretch things and go for laughs try the Ostscout, Cicada, Rifleman 3N and Charger. 

[IndyRI]

One mech that often gets thrown around is the Shadow Hawk.  Its quick enough that you can get a bonus for movement, so it rewards a mover, yet its sturdy enough that it dosen't excessivly punish someone who can't move well, its got one of each type of weapon (AC, laser, LRM, SRM) so you can learn the rules there, and its easy on heat.  For me, its nice to start of with an easy to use mech, if that's a Shadow Hawk or a Mad Dog C or Panther or what ever, and get the basics out of the way.  Movement, shooting, taking damage.  Heat is a more advanced concept, if only just very slightly more.  Do it after a game or two.  Do very high speed after a game or two.  Do lack of speed, assualts, only after you've demonstrated speed, or I think it can become a crutch to learning movement.

Still stuck on the Shadowhawk kick after writing the MotW for the IIC, huh IM?   ;)

[wackrabbit]

A Grasshopper is about the perfect 'mech for someone just starting, not too munchie, not lame.

[Moonsword]

Still stuck on the Shadowhawk kick after writing the MotW for the IIC, huh IM?   ;)

He's been stuck on that kick for years.  I don't think he's ever going to get off it and, honestly, there's no reason for him to.

A Grasshopper is about the perfect 'mech for someone just starting, not too munchie, not lame.

I'd prefer not to start them on it unless you're just handing them something to play with in a game of mixed skill levels.  There are probably better teaching machines.

[wackrabbit]

I actually end up putting them in similar 'mechs as everyone else, as I like to train recruits in the Grinder. It's a nice short, steep learning curve, and it's a lot of fun.

[Diamondshark]

Aff, the Dervish always seemed undergunned to me, but I only recently have done much with SW mechs, in that setting it works very well.

[Moonsword]

I actually end up putting them in similar 'mechs as everyone else, as I like to train recruits in the Grinder. It's a nice short, steep learning curve, and it's a lot of fun.

Well, in that case, Grasshopper for life!

[IndyRI]

Well the Grasshopper is great for teaching someone everything about the game. Heat, Jumping, ammo regulation, all ranges, while still being durable enough to forgive mistakes. It's a great tool for learning everything at once.

[Moonsword]

I tend to prefer something like an Enforcer or Whitworth for that - Grasshoppers don't really overheat that readily.

[wackrabbit]

I use enforcers and whitworths to teach the basics of ammo explosions. 

[topcat]

I tend to prefer something like an Enforcer or Whitworth for that - Grasshoppers don't really overheat that readily.

Agreed there.  Plus the reduced armor leads to faster fights.  You don't want a potential player's first game to be a snoozefest.

[IndyRI]

No such thing as a snooze fest in a Grasshopper.

[JPArbiter]

there is the Intro Tech Eisenfaust in the 3085 record sheets.  the TRO entry implies that the same mech is a much older design that never got purchased.

[topcat]

No such thing as a snooze fest in a Grasshopper.

If both players jump a lot (and new players tend to when given the option), you get TNs at 9 before range and other mods.  Most of the firepower is geared toward infighting, so you have to get really close to have a decent chance of hitting.  With great armor, nice crit-stuffing, and damage typically falling in 5pt groups, it's easy to drag out a fight between a couple of Grasshoppers.  Their survivability is one of the reasons they're so well-loved.

[IndyRI]

You're missing the point. They're Grasshoppers...... they're awesome and fun by default. Logic and numbers hold no sway over the almighty Grasshopper.

[Col. Chiang]

I'm a fan of two of the three classic 55 trio:  the Shadow Hawk and the Wolverine.  In addition, I like the Vindicator and the Phoenix Hawk (the standard PHX-1 model).  All of them have jump jets, all of them have varied weapons, and all of them fall in the 4/6/x to 6/9/x movement profiles.  The P-Hawk is the only one that I'd have a little trepidation about giving to a newcomer; it isn't particularly forgiving of those who don't keep moving.

Another thing to consider is the possible jealousy issue with some of your players getting metal minis and some getting paper stand-ups.  I'd make an effort to go with one or the other, just to avoid possible complications.

Just some thoughts.

[Lyran Archer]

Many years ago, when my brother wanted to learn to play BattleTech, we just used cardstock Wasps and Stingers. They're small and very simple to use. We had lots of fun jumping around in cities.

In early BattleTech literature, like Michael Stackpole's Warrior:En Garde, Stingers are mentioned as a training BattleMech, so it's entirely appropriate to train players on them.  ;) 

[avon1985]

One of my first games was the standard Archer vs Warhammer.  Have refought it many times always a good game that can go either way.

[Jimmyray73]

I've always had fun with Catapults, Grasshoppers and pretty much all the 55 tonners from TRO: 3025.  The Jenner is also massive amounts of fun. 

[Sartris]

I have a series of 10-20 ton custom mechs that use archtype loadouts and speeds to simulate larger mechs.  Since they're so lightly armored, they tend to go down faster.  It allows for more of a quickstart rules-ish feel without sacrificing as much depth. 

[Col. Chiang]

I have a series of 10-20 ton custom mechs that use archtype loadouts and speeds to simulate larger mechs.  Since they're so lightly armored, they tend to go down faster.  It allows for more of a quickstart rules-ish feel without sacrificing as much depth.

This, actually, might not be a bad idea.  Take one of the classic lights (so you can still use the cardstock prints to represent it), mod the engine to 4/5/X or 5/8/X, and stick a set of heavier weapons on it.  A/C-5s, LRM-5s, SRM-6s, LLs, PPCs, etc.  It would be able to give an idea of the different weapons mixes while reducing time on field and allowing for different movement profiles. 

D'you mind if I steal this idea, Sartris?

[Sartris]

This, actually, might not be a bad idea.  Take one of the classic lights (so you can still use the cardstock prints to represent it), mod the engine to 4/5/X or 5/8/X, and stick a set of heavier weapons on it.  A/C-5s, LRM-5s, SRM-6s, LLs, PPCs, etc.  It would be able to give an idea of the different weapons mixes while reducing time on field and allowing for different movement profiles. 

D'you mind if I steal this idea, Sartris?

Steal away  O0

[wackrabbit]

Give everyone a Chameleon, it's a training 'mech according to fluff.

[IndyRI]

Give everyone a Chameleon, it's a training 'mech according to fluff.

And actually a fairly decent one for teaching players everything they need to know about the game. I prefer mechs with enough durability that the player doesn't get discouraged by losing his mech early on, but it serves just fine in the role.

[FedSunsBorn]

First time I played BT, I had the 4th ed. boxed set. I had a Jenner for speed and backstabbing, an Enforcer for a trooper mech, a Dervish for fire support and a Grasshopper for a jumping semi-cavalry mech.

Jenner taught me about the movement curve. All of them had jj's so I learned about those pretty quickly. The Dervish was great for fire-support and worrying about that return fire. The Enforcer was a great "standard" mech though I hated running out of ammo and the Grasshopper was and still is one of my favorite laser boats.

Later on, I used Assault mechs and such but that first group of mechs still makes me smile.  ;)

[Fnord]

My group is running into a bit of a problem. We are all brand new to the game, and like all new players, we have yet to work out the finer points of the game, and naturally big guns leaves a satisfying hole in the enemy mechs.  The only mech that people seem to love, apart from those with big guns, seem to be the jenner (after one ran circles around the enemy,  and it also caused a surprising amount of damage while doing so). I'm surprised though, as I ran a crab in an early game which managed to take down another 50ton mech, and seriously harm a clint, without taking much damage in return (using its decent speed and another mech with a bigger gun in the front to make turning around dangerous).

So could anyone suggest a few beginners friendly mechs in the 3039 RS book, that does not sport any big guns, and that is not too heavy (at the moment we are capping weight at 65, because I don't want the game to turn into an assault mech slugfeast, which 2 heavy mechs stands in front of each other, lobbing shots into the enemy.

[Diamondshark]

Rifleman is good for teaching you to be basically mental, and all without boomsticks.  I forget the variant name, but there is a Hunchback that swaps out its AC-20 for a BUNCH of Mlasers.  I like the Griffin, Centurion, and Javelin, they do well too, without *big* guns.

[Moonsword]

I forget the variant name, but there is a Hunchback that swaps out its AC-20 for a BUNCH of Mlasers.

You're thinking of the HBK-4P "Swayback" Hunchack.

[Fnord]

I'll have to give that particular hunchback design a try. It was a hunchback that caused the problem in the first place, with its AC20 destroying the arm on a jagermech (and it knocked it to the ground, causing some more damage) so it will be interesting to see how well my group reacts to another hunchback that has an entirely different loadout.

I'll have to print out the RSs for those other mechs as well, in order to see if I can convince people to not only look at the big numbers.