How useful is it to work range brackets?

[misterpants]

Yeah, I had another thought occur to me.  @p?

I was just remembering a discussion on Snub-Nosed PPCs and the useful/useless-ness of its 9-hex short range. That combined with a snippet from a light gauss rifle usage repost about its long medium range in comparison to other weapons.

Theory and discussion is nice, but in practice, is it worth it to work the range brackets like that?

[Weirdo]

Oyah. Snubbies are often mounted on fast infighters, and compared to other close-ranged 'mechs that mount heavy AC or MLs or SRMs and whatnot, the ability to hit at short range while they're still at long range is invaluable.

[Lagbreaker]

Playing the game or more specifically moving your units without paying attention to the to hit numbers? For me thats not even possible. The range bracket determines your to hit numbers the most. So yes, working brackets is mandatory.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

Another way to make your hit numbers better and your opponent's worse is always welcome.

For the Light Gauss, I often like to think of it as a kind of pulse weapon and ignore the long range bracket unless there's an easy shot going. I mean, there are certainly times when the full range is useful, don't get me wrong, but working the medium bracket helps get the most out of a rather inefficient weapon.

[maddyfish]

In a one on one match, I was very sucessful in combating a Xanthos with a Berserker.

I was able to stay at 10 hexes for med on the ERPPC, long for the 2 LpLs (but essentially med due to the -2), this allowed me to stay out of AC20 range. The enemy was only able to return fire with a single PPC.

Or, I moved to 7 hexes for short range for the ERPPC, medium for the LpL (effective short due to the -2)

The speed advantage made this a successful tactic.

[Crunch]

It should always be a thought, and not just with the SNPPC. If you have a Gauss and your opponent has an (IS)ERPPC 15 hexes is a magic hex.

[Moonsword]

In a one on one match, I was very sucessful in combating a Xanthos with a Berserker.

That's either a custom Xanthos or you were hitting the XNT-3O (Introductory rules) with a standard rules DHS design.  None of the canon models combine an ER PPC and an AC/20.  The one with an ER PPC would be harder to evade due to the IJJs - he can almost jump a Berserker's run and outmaneuver it up close.

In general, playing the range brackets is extremely useful in my experience.

It should always be a thought, and not just with the SNPPC. If you have a Gauss and your opponent has an (IS)ERPPC 15 hexes is a magic hex.

If you can get in it.  Magic hexes tend to be very difficult to stay in sometimes.  Arranging them can be devastating, though.

[cray]

Playing the game or more specifically moving your units without paying attention to the to hit numbers? For me thats not even possible. The range bracket determines your to hit numbers the most. So yes, working brackets is mandatory.

Seconded.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

If you're not working the range brackets, you might as well play some other game.

[maddyfish]

That's either a custom Xanthos or you were hitting the XNT-3O (Introductory rules) with a standard rules DHS design.  None of the canon models combine an ER PPC and an AC/20.  The one with an ER PPC would be harder to evade due to the IJJs - he can almost jump a Berserker's run and outmaneuver it up close.

As memory serves me, it could not jump, it had an AC20, a standard PPC, maybe a couple med lasers??

My Berserker had an ERPPC, 2 LpLs and I dont remember what else.

[Arkansas Warrior]

That'd be the regular -30 variant, the standard from '75.

[Fear Factory]

Worth it?!  YES!

For example (very basic):

Design with medium laser: 3/6/9
Design with large laser:  5/10/15

Hexes to stay in (basically):  4-15 (10-15 to avoid damage)

Also, pay attention to firing arcs.  If the left arm of your enemy has nothing or is beat up then stay in that arc with the best of your abilities.  This is also good if the enemy's gun has a significant minimum range or poor range overall.

Overall, I take a more abstract approach because 1) I'm slow 2) speeds up the game (mostly because I'm slow) and 3) makes things much more interesting.  In my early days, I've made more mistakes and caused more frustration among players trying to figure out how to stay in a magic hex or find the absolute optimal move.  MegaMek can make this more frustrating with the middle mouse button.  I've played games with friends who literally took more than 1-5 minutes to move.  So annoying.  Take damage, it's a freaking war game.

[Moonsword]

I try to plan my moves out relatively quickly based on objectives.

[garhkal]

If you're not working the range brackets, you might as well play some other game.

Quoted for truth...
Playing the range brackets is imo how you succeed.

[Sockmonkey]

I remember that discussion about the snubbie with regards to this a while back. Matching it up with LRMs covers everything and gives you a couple hexes where the ideal ranges overlap for a sweet alpha strike. Generally the better your weapons cover the full spread the less you need to be a stickler about working the brackets and/or can get by with a slower mech.

[Scotty]

I split back and forth, depending on whether the game I'm playing has a turn time limit.  I usually play 30 seconds per unit moved.  Turns the game into a fast paced, piloting error ridden bundle of spontaneous fun.

[Fear Factory]

I split back and forth, depending on whether the game I'm playing has a turn time limit.  I usually play 30 seconds per unit moved.  Turns the game into a fast paced, piloting error ridden bundle of spontaneous fun.

[rockon]

[Scotty]

It's really nice to be able to conclude a full lance on lance battle in a little over an hour and a half. :D

[garhkal]

Fastest i have done a lance on lance, was 5 turns (1 hr 48 min irl)...  nothing but movement turn 1, movement and 2 long range plinks from ER ppcs turn 2 (no hits).  Turn 3 had all the long range fire (and i unfortuantely lost a MAD to a head cap).  Turn 4 was more of the same but i took out 2 of his mechs with CT tacs.  Turn 5 i took out 1 of his remaining 2 with a left leg blown off, and had one of mine take its 2nd head hit (LRM-5 both times)... he called it.

[Scotty]

We managed 10 turns in two hours last 4v4 game we played.  I was impressed.

[Crunch]

Wow, the last 4 on 4 game I played went 34 turns in 7 hours.

[Fear Factory]

Wow, 7 hours?  34 turns?  The biggest game I played was 10 vs 15 on a 3x3 map and it took, if I remember correctly, 12 hours total (6 hrs. per day).  Can't remember how many rounds it took.

[Crunch]

Wow, 7 hours?  34 turns?  The biggest game I played was 10 vs 15 on a 3x3 map and it took, if I remember correctly, 12 hours total (6 hrs. per day).  Can't remember how many rounds it took.

6000 BV2 Lances, Cav lance versus Brawler lance in a city. The biggest thing was that there were NO headcaps or Golden BBs. Every single mech had to get pounded into submission.

[Iron Mongoose]

It is impossible to over state how "useful" it is to work the ranges.  In any match up, you've got some sweet spots, some spots where you break even, and some where you give up your edge.  When you win innitive, you want to hit your sweet spots, or at least set up to hit it next time, and  when you lose it, you want to try and prevent your enemy from the same and force a break even.  Sometimes, for a short ranged mech the sweet spot is 0-3, some times for a sniper its 24-27, sometimes its about a very narrow band, sometimes its about getting all your weapons to work at once (6 hexes for LRMs and MLs, and the AC20 as on the Atlas, or 3 hexes for MLs and GRs or old PPCs).  But there's always a sweet spot, we you've got the edge over your opponent, and if you can get in it and stay in it, you'll surely win.

As for time, if you know your ranges and your opponents' ranges pretty well, and you can count reasonably quickly, it is usualy pretty quick to move even if you have to scope things out for range brackets, at least for me.

[Belisarius]

I remember that discussion about the snubbie with regards to this a while back. Matching it up with LRMs covers everything and gives you a couple hexes where the ideal ranges overlap for a sweet alpha strike. Generally the better your weapons cover the full spread the less you need to be a stickler about working the brackets and/or can get by with a slower mech.

I would even go so far as to recommend MML with both LRM and SRM ammo. That gives you firepower under 3 hexes as well as out past the snubbies range. Not only that, but once you've played twinkle toes out at range for a while and whittled away the enemy's armor, then you can dash in and send in the SRMs to crit seek and hammer them down.

It's a thought.

On the whole, range bracketing is critical. It's how you determine how to use what you have against what the enemy has. It's not as simple as "I have a Marauder and he has a Warhammer so I want to stay out at range". There's way more detail available for success. Alternating firing patterns, the relative ranges of your respective weapons, the availability of critseekers/goldenbbs/etc, all make a huge impact on your ops and rely heavily if not entirely upon the way you use ranges and their bracketing.

[Hellraiser]

IMHO it all sounds good on paper but in practice it on the game board it only works occasionally.
More often than not its only the last mech or 2 in initiative that really has much of a chance at setting up that perfect bracket.
In the SNPPC case its even worse because unlike the ERPPC v/s Gauss 1 hex range the Snubbie is already inside the range of most other weapons so at best your are looking at a +2 range shift that will reduce SOME fire but still leave you getting shot at by plenty of guns.
As for the long range v/s NO range shift,  that really only works for very long on mechs that are very fast and are playing on VERY large areas or are using "rolling maps" options.

Is it a worthy tactic for a late mover.......yes.
Is it a strategy to design your force around.......No.

[Silver Sasquatch]

Range brackets are one of the more important tactics, but if you only work the sweet spot and your oponent has isolated your mech and denied your other three mechs from even having LOS, his concentrated fire will make short work of you.

Everyone could probably pitch their pet "most important" tactic, and how it can negate the sweet spot.

Fast mover high movement mods can negate range numbers.

A zombie as bait is always nice, sure you only have to roll 5s to hit my Awesome with your AC2 at short range....

Sure, you closed to short range, firing all the way, now what is the to hit mod for being up 24 heat?



Doing one thing right doesn't get you far if you are doing a lot of things wrong.

 

[Belisarius]

OTOH, if this is one of the things you're doing wrong, then that's one more factor in your enemy's favor.

[ExtraBattleTechisfun]

Oyah. Snubbies are often mounted on fast infighters, and compared to other close-ranged 'mechs that mount heavy AC or MLs or SRMs and whatnot, the ability to hit at short range while they're still at long range is invaluable.

First light ACs and now heavy ACs?  Where can I find the stats for these heavy ACs?  I'm thinking of making some VTOL remote controlled drones to use these heavy ACs to soften up invading 'Mechs.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

There's no "heavy AC" weapon system, it's just shorthand for type 10 and 20 Autocannons.