Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 6: the 1st 3rd Star League conversation

[Normie]

I hope when the fulfillment house gets back to Catalyst that we do get some more details. The shipper that they picked, the service level, and how fast they plan on completing fulfillment because that can change my opinion on the cost. Its higher than my estimate but I can afford it, that said I won't be happy if I don't see added value.

I do find it concerning how many posters are seeing shipping costs at about a 1/3 of their pledge. Fair or not it leads me to believe that they are charging me based on what they think we can afford rather than their costs.

[The_Big_Red_Bear]

Why don't we actually give Catalyst time to do something before we all panic?

Honestly, its super exhausting. Telling people to chill even, results in just a long volumous pile of bullshit too.

[Hydrofoil Goat]

Honestly, its super exhausting. Telling people to chill even, results in just a long volumous pile of bullshit too.

It seems like a lot of people just have an axe to grind. No point engaging with it.

[DarkSpade]

Not even going to bother looking anything up until they give an update.  No point giving myself a heart attack until we hear more.

[PsylockeSmythe]

Click through and then go to the next page and it's listed there.  Shipping still says 0 for me

I just checked mine and I'm in the US and it was showing $244, which is between 5 and 6 times what the CI Kickstarter shipping was for me. 

Psy

[The Wayfarer]

I'd like to defend the large outcry we are hearing from backers about this shipping charge.

First, I hope it's a small error causing a huge spike in shipping and that it's easily correctible.  Maybe it's Quartermaster's error. Maybe it's CGL's.  Maybe it's a little of both.  Either way, this was a huge error in the rollout of shipping.  If these shipping charges are even remotely correct, shame.  Update 83 on KS...well it's not reassuring.

Second, we should have had estimated shipping calculations up front.  We know the dimensions and weight of an Inner Sphere Lance pack.  The length and weight of a neoprene map and many other items in this Kickstarter.  If I would have seen something even close to my shipping numbers up front, it would have changed the way I pledged.  I didn't have that choice.

Finally, in defense of the "freak-out" as I've seen some people describe it.  Catalyst has repeatedly said that there is nothing like Kickstarter to generate excitement and advertising for their product.  Well Kickstarter works both ways.  This part of the Kickstarter was a flop and they should hear about it on Kickstarter, here, and on social media.

And all this isn't going to stop me from being a Battletech fan.  I'm just not happy about it.

Mike       

[The_Big_Red_Bear]

I'd like to defend the large outcry we are hearing from backers about this shipping charge.

First, I hope it's a small error causing a huge spike in shipping and that it's easily correctible.  Maybe it's Quartermaster's error. Maybe it's CGL's.  Maybe it's a little of both.  Either way, this was a huge error in the rollout of shipping.  If these shipping charges are even remotely correct, shame.  Update 83 on KS...well it's not reassuring.

Second, we should have had estimated shipping calculations up front.  We know the dimensions and weight of an Inner Sphere Lance pack.  The length and weight of a neoprene map and many other items in this Kickstarter.  If I would have seen something even close to my shipping numbers up front, it would have changed the way I pledged.  I didn't have that choice.

Finally, in defense of the "freak-out" as I've seen some people describe it.  Catalyst has repeatedly said that there is nothing like Kickstarter to generate excitement and advertising for their product.  Well Kickstarter works both ways.  This part of the Kickstarter was a flop and they should hear about it on Kickstarter, here, and on social media.

And all this isn't going to stop me from being a Battletech fan.  I'm just not happy about it.

Mike       

No one is happy about it. But there is a difference behind "this sucks, but we'll see what the fix is next week before getting the pitchforks out" and "CGL is sTeAlInG fRoM uS!"

[niall78]

No one is happy about it. But there is a difference behind "this sucks, but we'll see what the fix is next week before getting the pitchforks out" and "CGL is sTeAlInG fRoM uS!"

Many backers of the KS are really worried about this. Ability to pay in many cases seems to be in doubt. We are talking about hundreds of dollars of unexpected costs for some backers that they need to find in a limited period of time.

I don't give a second to the doom mongers but there is genuine shock at these costs. PR wise it's a major issue until fully resolved. The longer it drags the more damage will be done.

[The_Big_Red_Bear]

Many backers of the KS are really worried about this. Ability to pay in many cases seems to be in doubt. We are talking about hundreds of dollars of unexpected costs for some backers that they need to find in a limited period of time.

I don't give a second to the doom mongers but there is genuine shock at these costs. PR wise it's a major issue until fully resolved. The longer it drags the more damage will be done.

Certainly. But I'm saying that having the meltdown now before we hear anything meaningful this coming week, just really doesn't work.

Like, if CGL tells me I need to eat crow and pay 800 USD in shipping, I'll be just as mad as anyone, make no mistake. But they've not told me that yet, and the cutoff date for all of this is the 12th iirc, provided it doesn't get pushed back further.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Many backers of the KS are really worried about this. Ability to pay in many cases seems to be in doubt. We are talking about hundreds of dollars of unexpected costs for some backers that they need to find in a limited period of time.

I don't give a second to the doom mongers but there is genuine shock at these costs. PR wise it's a major issue until fully resolved. The longer it drags the more damage will be done.

The important thing to remember is that this issue happened on the Friday afternoon of a holiday weekend.  There was no chance that anything was going to happen before Monday.  Possibly Tuesday.  It is not a bad look for Catalyst or doing any actual damage because zero business days have passed so far.

[Greatclub]

Second, we should have had estimated shipping calculations up front.  We know the dimensions and weight of an Inner Sphere Lance pack.  The length and weight of a neoprene map and many other items in this Kickstarter.  If I would have seen something even close to my shipping numbers up front, it would have changed the way I pledged.  I didn't have that choice.

Unfortunately it's the 2020s. Shipping prices change so fast that any estimate will be optimism or a lie that far out. Shipping as part of the pledge disappeared around 2015 or so.

Based on how consistent the 30% is, I'd guess that some (non-cgl/qml) corporate twit with a nice haircut is trying to take advantage of how far into the campaign we are to gouge us. Which would have come as a surprise even if they had given us an estimate, as no shipping company is going to  honor an estimate with that kind of lead time

[Teejay75]

Honestly, when the shipping charges started to be posted, the first thought in my brain was why haven't I received my shipping charges yet? Did they forget about me?? Where's My SHIPPING CHARGES???

Then I got my shipping charges. I'd pledged for a Regiment, another Merc box (Gotta have the KS exclusive and the standard boxes!) and the Strikers pack. That's $610. They have me down for $148.22 for shipping and taxes. I live in Alabama, so no shipping tax here either. Luckily, I've put back $100 just to pay for shipping, so the extra $48 doesn't hurt too bad. Hopefully, this is indeed just a mix up on the shipper's part and the costs will go down for everyone.

I have nothing but respect for CGL for the way they've run the campaign so far. They've done their best to be up front and transparent through the entire process. Sure, many folks are worried, but I think the loudest voices are from the people looking for a reason to be mad and indignant about something. Heck, there were people complaining about the pledges before the campaign was over! I'm taking a wait and see position to see what CGL can find out. I honestly feel that CGL will find a way to make this right for the backers. As others have said, take a deep calming breath and have a little patience.

Have fun gaming, guys and gals. Peace of Blake be upon you all!

[Blkbr2020]

Over $100 US to ship my order, pretty lousy for $400 of product. I think the last Kickstarter it was $50 and I had 2 separate pledges.

In my case its annoying, but not a deal breaker. This really sucks for people on a tight budget.

[General308]

Couple of things.

1) CGL should have seen the problem when they got these.  Seems they only did when people complained.

2)  We need to remember  last kickstarter prices were locked in before Covid.  So what you paid last time isn't relevant in todays world.

3)   CGL should have at some point let people know shipping prices were going to be much higher because it is the right thing to do.  There words "While we knew going with a higher quality shipper would be pricier, we did not know it would be to this level for some of you. "  They should of comunicated that with backers when they decided to go with a pricer option long ago

 4)  How are they going with a pricer shipper when they are still using Quartermaster?   Really something doesn't add up because CGL  hasn't taken the time to explain it.  It might make perfect sense but CGL and comunication don't seem to go well together

5)   Backers have to take some responsibility too.  It is a huge red flag to not know shipping amounts and to blindly spend large amounts of money with that red flag with a company that has had problems with every single Kickstarter they have done is risky.

I don't know what happens in the end.   It is wild for sure and hopefully it gets worked out let people complain if they need to.  Some people just can't afford these high shipping numbers and it isn't fair to them to tell them to hold it all in on something CGL should have realized before they oked the numbers to be added to everyones accounts.

[jimdigris]

5)   Backers have to take some responsibility too.  It is a huge red flag to not know shipping amounts and to blindly spend large amounts of money with that red flag with a company that has had problems with every single Kickstarter they have done is risky.

How many Kickstarters has CGL done?  I only know of the Clan Invasion Kickstarter and they delivered.  The Leviathans one is still within its margin of error for timing.  Late or failed Kickstarters are the norm.  So far, Catalyst has done much better than the average Kickstarter.

As for the shipping rates, Catalyst didn't know about the magnitude of the problem until just before the holiday weekend.  They have not had time to sit down with the shipper to resolve the issues.

Have a little patience, this will be resolved within the week.

[shivanwurm]

So there is at least 1 error

[Prometheum5]

Aries is a real level-headed dude and I do agree that we should see what CGL comes back with. I also agree with people who've said that CGL should have been ahead of this and realized there was going to be a problem. This is just another example that makes them look so amateurish despite the success and quality of products they've delivered. It feels like Battletech continues to thrive despite CGL.

[The_Big_Red_Bear]

Aries is a real level-headed dude and I do agree that we should see what CGL comes back with. I also agree with people who've said that CGL should have been ahead of this and realized there was going to be a problem. This is just another example that makes them look so amateurish despite the success and quality of products they've delivered. It feels like Battletech continues to thrive despite CGL.

The game has literally thrived, in part, due to CGL. The Clan Invasion Kickstarter, and sourcebooks, have all played major roles in revitalizing the game. PGI's Mechwarrior Online / Mechwarrior 5, people like The Black Pants Legion, and HBS Battletech, have all played major roles in this as well. GW shedding a degree of players (that they immediately made up for, to be clear, their sales are still gigantic) also played a role too.

I think too many people think CGL is some massive company.

The shipping's screwed and no one noticed. I can guess why, because it's not hard, because I've worked for businesses in this kind of position before.

Their logistics team didn't catch it- because they don't have a logistics team. They hired a company to do this for them. If I were a betting man, I'd suspect they *trusted* that company too, which, surprise surprise, resulted into blind-walking into this sort of issue.

They are dependent on 3PL's because CGL isn't a giant company. It's big, for a non GW / WOTC games company in the current age. But most tabletop games companies are not huge operations with tons of people at this point.

[Lorcan Nagle]

How many Kickstarters has CGL done?  I only know of the Clan Invasion Kickstarter and they delivered.  The Leviathans one is still within its margin of error for timing.  Late or failed Kickstarters are the norm.  So far, Catalyst has done much better than the average Kickstarter.

As for the shipping rates, Catalyst didn't know about the magnitude of the problem until just before the holiday weekend.  They have not had time to sit down with the shipper to resolve the issues.

Have a little patience, this will be resolved within the week.

Aside from Clan Invasion Catalyst have fulfilled:

The Duke
Shadowrun: Sprawl Ops
Super Camelot (this one took two attempts, they launched the first early by accident)
Centurion.
Shadowun: Edgezone

As well as Mercenaries, the following are in some stage of completion:
Leviathans
Overlords in Training
Shadowrun Takedown

[Prometheum5]

I think too many people think CGL is some massive company.

We know they're not a big company, they can't possibly remind us more that they're not a big company and it's used as an excuse for an awful lot. That's why I say they look amateurish.

I'm excited for my Mercs stuff, I'm very happy with the game is. I'll end up dealing with a stupid shipping charge and getting over it, but CGL's not above critique.

[General308]

How many Kickstarters has CGL done?  I only know of the Clan Invasion Kickstarter and they delivered.  The Leviathans one is still within its margin of error for timing.  Late or failed Kickstarters are the norm.  So far, Catalyst has done much better than the average Kickstarter.

As for the shipping rates, Catalyst didn't know about the magnitude of the problem until just before the holiday weekend.  They have not had time to sit down with the shipper to resolve the issues.

Have a little patience, this will be resolved within the week.

CGL Has done like 10 kickstarters.  And the Clan Invasion Kickstarter still has outstanding items to this day..  Cataylst kickstarters having issues is like Water being wet.  You can count on it.

AS to CGL not knowing abou thte magnitude of the problem.  Sorry no.  It is litterally there job to know before they authrize them charges..

I am ready to pay mine.  I am just saying I undertand peoples problems

[General308]

So there is at least 1 error

We don't know that yet.  He said it is most likely something like that.  Which would make a lot of sense

[Charistoph]

AS to CGL not knowing abou thte magnitude of the problem.  Sorry no.  It is litterally there job to know before they authrize them charges..

How quickly would it take to have a person review every single entry of the Kickstarter?  Even assuming they don't make a mistake (by which, it was a human error, if any, which led to this), and corrected everything, how much time would that burn?

I'm near the 13,000th person to enter the Kickstarter, and I pledged within the first 24 hours.

I've run code and similar parses for this in other areas with much smaller numbers.  Even with a computer running a batch process, mistakes happen, either from initial entry (as someone said, someone ordered a "100 pound" Blood Asp salvage box), in the shipping calculations on the other end, i.e. the one actually processing the shipping slipped up on their numbers, or in the information being fed to the shipper.

For a comparison (and I know his won't work outside the States very well), I did a similar run up with Aries Minis and checked what their shipping costs would have been.  The Kickstarter shipping was about a 50% difference above the most basic and slow USPS shipping, and it was missing the Salvage boxes, big Timber Wolf, and other swag.

International shipping is far more complicated, particularly with VAT, customs, and current water-born issues in general being involved.

They said they'd look in to it, and I'll give them enough time to work it through.  At the earliest, the shipping address needs to be confirmed by this coming Friday, I can easily wait till then for word on that.  It's not like doing all this right now, today, will get it to us any day earlier.

[General308]

How quickly would it take to have a person review every single entry of the Kickstarter?  Even assuming they don't make a mistake (by which, it was a human error, if any, which led to this), and corrected everything, how much time would that burn?

I'm near the 13,000th person to enter the Kickstarter, and I pledged within the first 24 hours.

I've run code and similar parses for this in other areas with much smaller numbers.  Even with a computer running a batch process, mistakes happen, either from initial entry (as someone said, someone ordered a "100 pound" Blood Asp salvage box), in the shipping calculations on the other end, i.e. the one actually processing the shipping slipped up on their numbers, or in the information being fed to the shipper.

For a comparison (and I know his won't work outside the States very well), I did a similar run up with Aries Minis and checked what their shipping costs would have been.  The Kickstarter shipping was about a 50% difference above the most basic and slow USPS shipping, and it was missing the Salvage boxes, big Timber Wolf, and other swag.

International shipping is far more complicated, particularly with VAT, customs, and current water-born issues in general being involved.

They said they'd look in to it, and I'll give them enough time to work it through.  At the earliest, the shipping address needs to be confirmed by this coming Friday, I can easily wait till then for word on that.  It's not like doing all this right now, today, will get it to us any day earlier.

Doesn't matter how long it takes them?   Backers paid them to get it right not for them to throw crap at the fan and hope it is right.    As large as this problem is it seems if they did spot checking they would have realized there was a problem.   Two possiablities the prices are right they know it and are playing a game ( I doubt)  More likely is they didn't take the time to do there job at all because they were not worried if backers shipping was right or wrong.

I am going to say this CGL is no longer a little company guys.   They are a multi million dollar company.  It is time to treat them like one and have the same expecations we would have of other multi million dollar companies.   If they are not hiring people in the right places to catch or deal with these things that allow deserves its fair shair of critism.

[glitterboy2098]

How quickly would it take to have a person review every single entry of the Kickstarter?  Even assuming they don't make a mistake (by which, it was a human error, if any, which led to this), and corrected everything, how much time would that burn?

I'm near the 13,000th person to enter the Kickstarter, and I pledged within the first 24 hours.

23,654 backers pledged to the KS. there isn't any info on late backers who came in via the backerkit, but odds are there a fair few of those.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Doesn't matter how long it takes them?   Backers paid them to get it right not for them to throw crap at the fan and hope it is right.    As large as this problem is it seems if they did spot checking they would have realized there was a problem.   Two possiablities the prices are right they know it and are playing a game ( I doubt)  More likely is they didn't take the time to do there job at all because they were not worried if backers shipping was right or wrong.

I am going to say this CGL is no longer a little company guys.   They are a multi million dollar company.  It is time to treat them like one and have the same expecations we would have of other multi million dollar companies.   If they are not hiring people in the right places to catch or deal with these things that allow deserves its fair shair of critism.

They still have a small staff.  And again, this is still a holiday weekend.  They need to talk to the shipping company about this and I guarantee you there's nobody in that office right now.

[General308]

They still have a small staff.  And again, this is still a holiday weekend.  They need to talk to the shipping company about this and I guarantee you there's nobody in that office right now.

Who decided to do this on a holiday weekend?  CGL.   Who has decided to stay with a small staff? CGL   Who decided not to look at the shipping numbers till the holiday weekend after they charged people CGL.

What I am saying is it is time to stop pretending CGL is a small company.  If they still have a small staff that is by choice at this point.   They are no longer a small company they have worked really hard to become a bigger company.  But they have to take the good with the Bad.   And the fact is it is time for fans to stop pretending they are a small company.

And honestly I am not even upset I did a small order because the no shipping amount was a red flag.  But I think it is silly the amount of people getting on to people who are upset.  You know what it was a Holiday weekend for those people too.  And because CGL didn't do what they should do now after a year of excitement they are wondering if they can even afford what they bought on a holiday weekend.   Again CGL decided to do all this on a Holiday weekend so that is on CGL.  Those people have a right to be upset and honestly I think the upset people have been pretty fair about things.

[Hammer]

MOD NOTE

Locked for a cool off and Moderator review.

[ActionButler]

MOD NOTICE

The moderator team understands and shares the frustration regarding the current Kickstarter shipping costs. We are in the same boat as everyone else since we are seeing the same sorts of numbers for our own pledges.

That being said, there are far more questions than answers right now. We do not know if these totals are final. If there is an error, we do not know where it originated from or how it altered the estimates. If there is not an error, we do not know why the totals are so high or what CGL can do about them.

This thread is being reopened to facilitate discussion and provide a place to justifiably vent frustration. In moving forward with this discussion, though, please refrain from quoting and/or sharing unfounded accusations or rumors. This is not a place for conspiracy theories about who knew what and when, or why the process has taken the turn that it has.

Additionally, once you have spoken your mind, please move on and let others do the same. We get it, a lot of you are angry. That's fair. Repeating those frustrations over and over will not help the situation, though. It won't get us answers any faster.

[Luciora]

Man, the conpletionist in me wants extras of the new Strikers set now to make the notable units of Clan Spaniel.