Author Topic: Wolves on the border  (Read 3938 times)

Elmoth

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Wolves on the border
« on: 31 October 2020, 09:01:08 »
Reading his book.

I am very surprised at the level of hotheadedness shown in the kurita troops. Sword of light attacking without regard for own casualties?
Same for the Davion mercs.
It looks like mechs are disposable trinkets in 3024, not irreplaceable material.

Decoy

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #1 on: 31 October 2020, 09:50:07 »
The Snake Stompers were a unit formed up of people who had very good reason to be very ...displeased at the Draconis Combine.

You'll notice how the attitude shifts from "Oh. Wolf's Dragoons. We'll take the L and.....NO! SWORD OF LIGHT! THEY HAVE TO PAY!"

Elmoth

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #2 on: 31 October 2020, 16:00:53 »
I get that. What surprised me is the after action report of the first sword of light company. Apparently they lost 4 mechs, all of them were damaged and 6 mechwarriors were unfit for dury after one engagement.

A pyrric victory against second rate mechs and militia.

And they are supposed to be the best Kurita has to offer. That suprised me.


nerd

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #3 on: 02 November 2020, 18:53:51 »
It was also written from the point of view of showing how different Tetsuhara was from the preferred officers of the DCMS. The Swords were individually excellent MechWarriors, but suffered from having a political officer corps, even during the 3rd Succession War.
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Mendrugo

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #4 on: 16 November 2020, 02:52:09 »
Many of the scenes in 3rd/4th Succession War involving the Draconis Combine showed their "best of the best" both acting like and going out like chumps.  Note the Sword of Light forces on Chara IV getting taken apart by the Kell Hounds because they attacked with only Panthers.  Likewise, in pursuit of the Hounds and Melissa Steiner, aside from Yorinaga's Warhammer, the supposedly super-elite Genyosha also gets clobbered because most of them just have Panthers.  The Combine officers in Wolves on the Border, supposedly graduates from extremely strict academies that should have drilled honor, discipline, duty, and martial excellence into each of them down to their marrow, come off as arrogant louts frequently in possession of the idiot ball, primarily for narrative reasons.

The takeaway, generally, is that while all true samurai are DCMS officers, not all DCMS officers are true samurai.  The output of the top academies isn't enough to put quality leaders in place, and even quality leaders may not be good at the political knife fights behind the scenes that often determine who gets top billing in a regiment.  Sabotaging a major offensive to make your rival look bad is DCMS Leadership 101.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Col Toda

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #5 on: 30 December 2020, 19:50:38 »
Been Ages since I read the book . But one thing is Clear Swords of Light and other rarified prestigious units in the Draconis Combine stress being warriors following Bushudo First with some level of corrupt cronyism that can get you decent to great warriors . Sometimes not .

With  Benjamin District units you get way better professional soldiers with a healthy scepticism on the decision making at the Warlord level and up .  Them, the Ghost Regiments , and the Legions of Vega play loose on Bushido as long as you have each other's back and secure victories.  The mustered soldierly is divided in outlook they relegate those units that do not reflect the best in the Bushido ideal to the shadows ( Ghost Regiments) and backwood duty stations ( Legion of Vega ) . Or heavily used defensive formations or backups to a more prestigious unit 
( Benjamin District units).

In the above Case the Sword of Light was given orders by their Lord . By the Code of Bushido before modified by Theodore Kurita this means by any means neccessary.  Getting injured or killed is fine so long as you win . It's the Classic Warrior ( Caste or vocation) VS Professional Soldier ( A Trade ) paradigms . Wolf Dragoons were warriors that had to act like Trademen soldiers in order to tour the Inner Sphere and collect the information they were supposed to supply the Clans .

glitterboy2098

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #6 on: 15 January 2021, 01:55:44 »
With  Benjamin District units you get way better professional soldiers with a healthy scepticism on the decision making at the Warlord level and up .  Them, the Ghost Regiments , and the Legions of Vega play loose on Bushido as long as you have each other's back and secure victories.  The mustered soldierly is divided in outlook they relegate those units that do not reflect the best in the Bushido ideal to the shadows ( Ghost Regiments) and backwood duty stations ( Legion of Vega ) . Or heavily used defensive formations or backups to a more prestigious unit 
( Benjamin District units).

these are a case where it is important to read the other books in the time period. especially in this case Heir to the Dragon. because in those you find out that the Legion of Vega originally wasn't all that unified or even victorious.. it was little better than a penal legion, where the rest of the DCMS dumped all the officers that were troublemakers or just fell on the wrong side of political intrigues. Theodore Kurita literally reshaped the unit to restore espirit de corps and some degree of professionalism, while stationed as its commanding officer for a few years. so that while they'd never be 'good samurai' they'd at least be useful as something other than cannon fodder.
and the Ghost Regiments were also something he developed, working up the deals to get the men and machines needed to create a secret army. while at the same time spearheading reforms of the DCMS into a more professional less individualistic force.

because in both books the problem with the DCMS wasn't the individual quality of the troops, it was the lack of any real coordination. the interpretation of Bushido at the time was very individual centric.. each warrior was basically out to bring honor to *himself* and would do whatever it took to advance their own career.. leading to a lack of wider coordination and a tendency for the upper leadership to focus more on dramatic gestures and avoiding looking bad than actually achieving mission goals. Combined with the social stratification of the officer corps and the desire by many to improve ones social standing through service, the DCMS had a lot of problems. while their warriors were often very good quality in terms of skills, they used those skills badly, and officers and warriors that put successful mission over personal glory often found themselves with careers that stalled out.

Theodore Kurita eventually changed that with his retraining program (which retrained a small cadre of troops and officers in more professional cooperative soldiery instead of individualized warrior spirit, and then said cadre ending up dispersed around the DCMS where they gradually trained up the newer recruits into that form of thinking.)

Mendrugo

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #7 on: 15 January 2021, 02:25:28 »
In fact, there's almost nothing to distinguish the Legions of Vega in 3025 from the pre-Second Succession War Combine chain-gang units.  Disgraced soldiers in junk equipment sent in as cannon fodder.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Elmoth

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #8 on: 29 January 2021, 09:40:08 »
I was not enjoying wolves on the border as I was supposed to according to everybody, so I switched to Camacho's.

I just read how Cassie Suthorn downs a Wolverine WITH A MOP HANDLE (and a live electrical cable, but let's keep to the basics). It is so preposterous I know I am going to enjoy this book immensely. 

Alex Keller

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #9 on: 29 January 2021, 18:37:12 »
According to the House Kurita Handbook, the Draconis Combine's military industrial complex (circa 3025) was reduced to LAW manufacturing Chargers, Dragons and Quickdraws on Luthien, and new Panthers produced on Jarrett.  They also manufactured a few Stinger LAM's on Irece.  Everything else had to be either imported or battlefield salvage. 

Stackpole had to rely on this type of information when he was drafting his novels, so its no surprise to me that the Sword of Light and Genyosha regiments, which likely had access to "new" mechs, had large formations of Panthers. 

I like what Stackpole did there, and it helps explain the narrative of why some "elite" Mechwarriors can come away bloodied against lesser opponents in heavier mechs. 

Robert Charette also supported this narrative in his opening chapter with a company full of Panthers (and an Ostscout).


DOC_Agren

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #10 on: 07 April 2021, 16:54:38 »
And see I look at the individual mech pilot might be a bit better in the DC then others, but he doesn't know how to work as team really nor did most consider Combined Arms worth their time to learn and understand how to use. 

They could have done well as they could playing the Clan Warrior games, had they not had the Smoked Jags facing them.  After all they used to beat Star League Mech Pilots in 1 on 1 duels.
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Kibutsu

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2021, 23:20:54 »
Wolves is a great book, one of the best really, and is best enjoyed along with Heir to the Dragon. The flaws in the DCMS at the time were due to them being hidebound, with rigid adherence to outdated codes and tactics. While the Sworders were excellent individual warriors, in the finest bushido traditions, they suffered from poor unit coordination and leadership who were happy to throw them away in order to achieve selfish political goals or merely to save face. In many ways, they mirror the IRL Japanese soldiers during WWII. Well trained, fanatically loyal and effective fighters who are given crap equipment and expected to charge, heedless into enemy machine-gun fire because the warrior spirit will prevail over any obstacle. Except bullets. Theodore Kurita recognizes that changes are necessary and takes the steps to fix things in time for the war he knows is coming.

GoGo Yubari

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2021, 05:17:30 »
Yeah, that was totally a thing with the DCMS, and esp. the Sword of Light. Excessive focus on non-aggressive tactics might be seen as cowardice, especially when they knew they had good quality troops who would not break and could do what was asked of them. This led to a certain way of fighting. Obviously, it was a big problem for the DCMS (though to be fair at the same it is important to recognize that there was still different types of units within the DCMS even in that time, so it wasn't all just this way).

Thus the need for reform later and the tremendous effect of the Wolf's Dragoons, Ryuken, Genyosha and later Theodore's more intelligent and less hidebound approach on the threat posed by the Dragon. Their enemies could in the past at least rely on the DCMS being a bit predictable, thus susceptible to sneaky tactics (which the DCMS would then view as dishonorable). With several new units demonstrating increased awareness of tactics, their enemies could no longer rely on this.

Personally I like this period a lot. They're a great OpFor for scenarios or in an RP sense too - individually scary, honorable in a way that can at times make them greatly respectable enemies and monsters at other, but giving you an interesting puzzle; you know they're gonna come right at you, so how are you going to turn the tables on them? And just when you think you got them figured, they bring in one of these new units, pushing the boundaries... 
« Last Edit: 15 May 2021, 05:24:00 by GoGo Yubari »

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Failure16

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Re: Wolves on the border
« Reply #13 on: 16 May 2021, 20:45:34 »

Personally I like this period a lot. They're a great OpFor for scenarios or in an RP sense too - individually scary, honorable in a way that can at times make them greatly respectable enemies and monsters at other, but giving you an interesting puzzle; you know they're gonna come right at you, so how are you going to turn the tables on them? And just when you think you got them figured, they bring in one of these new units, pushing the boundaries...

Excellent summation of the 3025-era DCMS. And something that Charrette (and the Kieths) showcased expertly.
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