'Mech of the Week: Jupiter

[glitterboy2098]

I believe that it was actually the third or fourth expansion before we saw a proper omnimech added to the Dark Age game.  Prior to that, we had second-line versions of omnis like the Black Hawk, Koshi, and Mad Cat Mk II.

well, partly depends on whether you count the Centurion Omni.
and in the first set you had the Cougar, and the 2nd expansion had an Ullers, Cougars, Vultures (actually Vulture III), and Thor.

they just were all on the rare end of the spectrum, till the 3rd expansion introduced non-named character versions.

[Weirdo]

I can't help but think that given the DA setting (and in general, and also Weirdo), LB-5x's would have been far more handy on the original Jupiter

...oi! >:(

But yeah, something like that would probably mess me up but good. #P

[Diplominator]

Actually, if we're talking about the MWDA Jupiter, I have a question. I found a few images of minis with four-tube missile racks in the arms instead of the ACs. Is that likely the inspiration for the Jupiter 4? I ask because those didn't appear to be of Falcon origin (actually, I don't even know if the Falcon origin was established until TRO 3075), and it would be interesting if the Jupiter 4 had distribution beyond the Falcons, since the other variants do not, per the MUL.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

well, partly depends on whether you count the Centurion Omni.
and in the first set you had the Cougar, and the 2nd expansion had an Ullers, Cougars, Vultures (actually Vulture III), and Thor.

they just were all on the rare end of the spectrum, till the 3rd expansion introduced non-named character versions.

I believe you're confusing Dark Age and Age of Destruction.

[glitterboy2098]

I believe you're confusing Dark Age and Age of Destruction.

nope. Dark age had Collin Yukinov, in a Cougar, a rare figure

Fire for Effect had:
Malisa Nova Cat in an Uller
Shin Wolf in an Uller
Kym Nova Cat In a Cougar
Antonia Chinn in a Thor
Gary Metcalf in a Thor
Alice Vander in a Vulture
Naomi Katina in a Vulture

however there were all named characters and thus uncommons and rares in terms of the odds of being pulled from an expansion pack.

Death From Above gave us common rarity Ullers for 4 different factions, and common rarity Cougars for 4 different factions

Liao incursion gave us common rarity Uller's for three more factions, and a named Uller Pilot

Counter Assult gave us no new Omni's

Falcons prey gave us named pilots for 2 Thors, 2 Vultures, and 2 Templars

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I stand corrected.

[chanman]

...oi! >:(

But yeah, something like that would probably mess me up but good. #P

Always thinkin' o ya and your variation of death from above  :D

[cavingjan]

I can't help but think that given the DA setting (and in general, and also Weirdo), LB-5x's would have been far more handy on the original Jupiter

No room for the LBXs. You need to come up with 4 more crits.

[Deadborder]

Actually, if we're talking about the MWDA Jupiter, I have a question. I found a few images of minis with four-tube missile racks in the arms instead of the ACs. Is that likely the inspiration for the Jupiter 4? I ask because those didn't appear to be of Falcon origin (actually, I don't even know if the Falcon origin was established until TRO 3075), and it would be interesting if the Jupiter 4 had distribution beyond the Falcons, since the other variants do not, per the MUL.

That they are. Those are ones that originated from the RAF via the Falcons

[chanman]

No room for the LBXs. You need to come up with 4 more crits.

Time to rip some actuators out, I suppose

[JadeHellbringer]

Never been a fan, its a beast, but I just don't care for it when I have a D-Wolf or StoneRhino that I can use.

You just hit the nail on the head. The Falcons don't build either design, and certainly post-Jihad/WoR likely have very few of either around to use.

Turkinas, sure, but that's more of a frontline design. There's the Battlemaster-C, during the time the Falcons control the factory, so probably not a whole ton of them. Banes of assorted flavors, but not post-WoR (I don't believe it was produced in the OZ). And the Onager, even from its earliest days, was obviously intended to be a testbed for something else later (the Shrike).

So... yeah, comparing it to designs the Falcons don't use might be a fair comparison, but it only puts an exclamation point on the Jupiter's existence- if you don't build Stone Rhinos, you build Jupiters to do the job.

[Wrangler]

Actually, if we're talking about the MWDA Jupiter, I have a question. I found a few images of minis with four-tube missile racks in the arms instead of the ACs. Is that likely the inspiration for the Jupiter 4? I ask because those didn't appear to be of Falcon origin (actually, I don't even know if the Falcon origin was established until TRO 3075), and it would be interesting if the Jupiter 4 had distribution beyond the Falcons, since the other variants do not, per the MUL.

This dossier for Leala Banach, which pre-dates the Jupiter 4 and it never had a variant name. It came out during the Liao Incursion.  I believe this is what ultimately became the Fourth Variant.   Alot of the MWDA that were slated to during the Jihad came out TRO: 3075 and later 3085.  This included oops we forgot about that one moments, that only appear in print in Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged.  The Record Sheet for the Jupiter 4 showed up in RS: 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades for Record Sheets.

It should be noted that Streak 4 packing Jupiter started to appear (dossier wise) in Liao Incursion release.

Edit: fixing link. Don't know why that happened. :(   

[Hellraiser]

Banes of assorted flavors, but not post-WoR (I don't believe it was produced in the OZ).

I think my issue is they did Build Banes when they designed the Jupiter.  And really, its the same Chassis w/ endo & some hands added.  So why design it at all?    I know, I know, Clicky Tech. 
Its really that 3068 date that gets me.  Seems like it should have been a later intro date.

Originally, this thing was part of the original clicky MWDA games, being used by Knight of the Sphere.

Actually, IIRC, the 1st Jupiter was being piloting by a Dragon's Fury pilot.

[wantec]

I think my issue is they did Build Banes when they designed the Jupiter.  And really, its the same Chassis w/ endo & some hands added.  So why design it at all?    I know, I know, Clicky Tech. 
Its really that 3068 date that gets me.  Seems like it should have been a later intro date.


Actually, IIRC, the 1st Jupiter was being piloting by a Dragon's Fury pilot.

Nope, the first Jupiter piece was 'One Eyed' Jack Farrell, a Banson's Raiders piece that was a special piece (not in boosters or prize support). I think it was a mail-in for a magazine? Or did it come with MechAssault? I think the MA figure was the Merc Cougar.

And Wrangler was talking about the second novel, A Call to Arms, where a Republic Knight shows up in a Jupiter painted like the planet (even with the big red eye on the torso), that the main character eventually takes over piloting. But that wasn't even the first appearance in a novel, a Jupiter showed up in the first novel, but it didn't play a big role and it wasn't piloted by either of the Knights so it tends to get forgotten.

[Wrangler]

Actually, IIRC, the 1st Jupiter was being piloting by a Dragon's Fury pilot.

I was talking about first Streak-4 variant actually.  Its Kool! I won't have known which ones of the MWDA units was first dossier to appear first, though I think wantec is right that's its One-Eye Jack who's first pilot, but in dossier form.  Heck he shows up in Proving Ground Series novels.

I think my favorite appearance of the Jupiter was when it REALLY showed up in-fiction for the first time, A Call to Arms by Loren Coleman.  I like how the Errant Knight of the Sphere's Jupiter had a Great Spot of the planet painted on his machine. :)

[JadeHellbringer]

Nope, the first Jupiter piece was 'One Eyed' Jack Farrell, a Banson's Raiders piece that was a special piece (not in boosters or prize support). I think it was a mail-in for a magazine? Or did it come with MechAssault? I think the MA figure was the Merc Cougar.

And Wrangler was talking about the second novel, A Call to Arms, where a Republic Knight shows up in a Jupiter painted like the planet (even with the big red eye on the torso), that the main character eventually takes over piloting. But that wasn't even the first appearance in a novel, a Jupiter showed up in the first novel, but it didn't play a big role and it wasn't piloted by either of the Knights so it tends to get forgotten.

Yeah, it took me forever to hunt down Farrel's Mech (and never got to use it once I did! :( ), because I didn't have that magazine. I got my Cougar from Mechassault though (and it wasn't a bad one to use off and on, at least early on)

I think my issue is they did Build Banes when they designed the Jupiter.  And really, its the same Chassis w/ endo & some hands added.  So why design it at all?    I know, I know, Clicky Tech. 
Its really that 3068 date that gets me.  Seems like it should have been a later intro date.


Actually, IIRC, the 1st Jupiter was being piloting by a Dragon's Fury pilot.

Something to consider though is what Bane was being built. The Bane-4, definitely, but a very different beast than the Jupiter's layout (in fact they make excellent teammates). But the previous models, based on the unseen artwork, may very well have been out of production by the time the Jupiter came along- which, in turn, might explain the Jupiter's being designed to begin with.

That's mere guesswork, I admit, but I honestly don't know if the previous Bane models were still being produced by the time the Jupiter, or even the Bane-4, were built.

[wantec]

Yeah, it took me forever to hunt down Farrel's Mech (and never got to use it once I did! :( ), because I didn't have that magazine. I got my Cougar from Mechassault though (and it wasn't a bad one to use off and on, at least early on)

Something to consider though is what Bane was being built. The Bane-4, definitely, but a very different beast than the Jupiter's layout (in fact they make excellent teammates). But the previous models, based on the unseen artwork, may very well have been out of production by the time the Jupiter came along- which, in turn, might explain the Jupiter's being designed to begin with.

That's mere guesswork, I admit, but I honestly don't know if the previous Bane models were still being produced by the time the Jupiter, or even the Bane-4, were built.

I'm pretty sure I tracked down that single edition of that magazine just for the mail-in. I don't usually do magazine subscriptions so that must have been how I got it.

[pensiveswetness]

The Ultra-5s on the original Jupiter remind me of the Dire Wolf Prime.  Far from an exact copy, but the latter maybe inspired the former.

The loadout on the original Jupiter is very well put together -- a flexible set of firing options that waste little and provide varied but powerful mixes of hole-punching/crit-seeking and direct/indirect fire for almost any opponent -- on top of a 3/5, 100-tonner's usual 19+ tons of armor goodness.  My only critique would be the lack of accurate weapons to offset the higher gunnery skills of freeborns and solahma and to defend against fast-movers.  But the loadouts on more canon designs should follow the Jupiter's example than not.  Although the Falcons are known for their lighter, jumpier designs, between the Turkina and Jupiter, they do the heavy assault thing well.

I'm not as big a fan of the variants, but I can understand the desire for more hole-punching at the expense of range on the 2 (although the lack of pulse, LB-X cluster, or a TC is more acutely felt with the 2's jump jets), and the desire for more sandpapering at the expense of hold-punching on the 3.   The 4 is the weakest.  With only the firepower of a Clan heavy cav platform but not the speed, it gives up too much and needs a more focused weapons loadout as most inefficient 4/6, 100-tonners do.

and if the TO rules are allowed, those ERPPC's dial'ed down to 12 or less each means you can add 1 or 2 LRM's to the mix. I'd rather do as much Dakka & EEEEEEE-Swoosh as possible just to make myself as empty as possible once those Chance For Crits start occuring. Have yet to use one in battle but i'm very interested in doing so...

[JadeHellbringer]

I'm pretty sure I tracked down that single edition of that magazine just for the mail-in. I don't usually do magazine subscriptions so that must have been how I got it.

Ebay for me. Took forever, cost more than I'm happy to admit, and it was right after the Gaithersburg store closed, so ol' Jack never once fired a shot in anger. Poop. (Side note though, on the Jupiter in MWDA, the Dragon's Fury one was one of my first two uniques, along with the Swordsworn Panther- needless to say, I was impressed from day one with that sculpt. ;) )

[SteelRaven]

I remember the Dragons Fury Thor and Highlanders Vulture showed up very early but happen to be two or the rarest minis 

[JadeHellbringer]

I remember the Dragons Fury Thor and Highlanders Vulture showed up very early but happen to be two or the rarest minis

I'll back the Vulture, for sure. That Thor though? I've got three of them- one still guards my DVD shelf even now, along with a lunatic's Shrike. ;)

But. Yeah, Jupiters. I've tried tinkering a bit with the 2, tried dropping down to ER large lasers in place of the PPCs to gain the weight for Ultra-20s. Don't do it- it's like the old Far Side cartoon of a young 'god' creating a chicken. It blows up in your face pretty spectacularly- use a Bane 4 and don't be an ass like me. ;)

[Colt Ward]

Thanks for the read, I have never used one or really seen one in action but I really appreciate the break down of the UAC/5s.  It also makes me wonder about what weapons they were producing in the JFOZ when the Reavings started.

As far as the fight JHB references, I believe its mentioned in Operation Icestorm I.  I know they cover Hellion Khan Montrose running from Brian Pryde to be covered by the other Hellions after she started losing.  I mean really, how does a Hellion win that fight?  Even if you say he is JUST a Clan Veteran and she is a Elite MechWarrior, the mech difference will negate a lot of that and he has just as much range as she could bring.

I do wonder about how they spread, the farthest from the Falcons one got that I am aware was Maria something of the Oriente.  She lost her Jupiter and life on Kwamshu during the Republic's false flag operation- which did not make the mech too impressive.  Anyone ever try replaying that fight?

[JadeHellbringer]

What, Kwamshu? I'd love to- I actually wrote a scenario a long time ago that, with a little re-writing, would work perfectly there.

[Colt Ward]

Well, it was not a complicated fight . . . the Jupiter was the 1, piloted by a Oriente officer (captain?) of probably veteran status.  Against I think Knight Erbe in his stock Shockwave supported by a Fiedelis VTOL (upgraded for a bigger punch, maybe a HML rather than a ERML), APC and BA.

[Hellraiser]

Nope, the first Jupiter piece was 'One Eyed' Jack Farrell, a Banson's Raiders piece that was a special piece (not in boosters or prize support). I think it was a mail-in for a magazine? Or did it come with MechAssault? I think the MA figure was the Merc Cougar.

And Wrangler was talking about the second novel, A Call to Arms, where a Republic Knight shows up in a Jupiter painted like the planet (even with the big red eye on the torso), that the main character eventually takes over piloting. But that wasn't even the first appearance in a novel, a Jupiter showed up in the first novel, but it didn't play a big role and it wasn't piloted by either of the Knights so it tends to get forgotten.

Ok, I was refering to the 1st set of figures that everyone could get.  Dark Age.
http://www.knight-ware.com/cmg/mechwarrior/darkage/116.html
I forgot about the mail ins or the novels.  Probably because I didn't really read the novels much & because the 1 time I did a mail order for the original Janella Lakewood/RotS mail order for 2 of the Tundra Wolves & those bastards cashed my $10 check & never sent me the 2 figures.   >:(  Now I'm pissed off all over again 12 years later remembering that!  >:(   /grumble grumble.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, now the Jupiter 3 is available, and unlike the original mini it actually fits together and is nice.

[SteelRaven]

Found a pic at Aries Minis, I do appreciate that it looks more hawkish (fitting for a Falcon Mech)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The changed sensor/antenna array on the head threw me off, though.

[Wrangler]

I just be happy they fix Jupiter Standard/Jupiter 2 mini so it wasnt bear fix. Originally mini came out oversized and had flaws.

[JadeHellbringer]

I just be happy they fix Jupiter Standard/Jupiter 2 mini so it wasnt bear fix. Originally mini came out oversized and had flaws.

Want to improve one enormously? Drop the original legs for Tundra Wolf replacements. Same sculpt on the original DA minis for the legs (like the Thor/Loki), but the T-Wolf's legs turned out much better- it makes a huge difference. The missiles are still kind of a mess, but the leg swap helps a ton.