How to build a Combined army using Cheap units?

[JadeHellbringer]

Have you looked at the Protomechs that people keep mentioning?

"What's the best way to get a small, mobile LRM launcher on the field for the discriminating gentleman commander? Oh. Oh my... hello Gorgon-1..."

[chaosticket]

Protomechs are something ive checked out, but they look like Masters of Nothing. They don't seem to have any distinct advantage.

Now if you could fit 4 lrm-5s or a CERlarge laser in one for less than 300BV that would be something.

[Arkansas Warrior]

A CERLL by itself is 248 BV.

[Retry]

Protomechs are something ive checked out, but they look like Masters of Nothing. They don't seem to have any distinct advantage.

Now if you could fit 4 lrm-5s or a CERlarge laser in one for less than 300BV that would be something.

Seeing how a cERLL is 248BV by itself and 4 LRM-5s w/ 1 ton of ammo is 227 BV, that would be something.  One might even say impossible.

Edit: Even with an ultra-light, slow fusion-engine wheeled vehicle with a cERLL with minimal armor I still get ~350 BV  You basically have to artificially remove armor and keep the vehicle slow to get it near 300 BV.

[chaosticket]

Seeing how a cERLL is 248BV by itself and 4 LRM-5s w/ 1 ton of ammo is 227 BV, that would be something.  One might even say impossible.

Edit: Even with an ultra-light, slow fusion-engine wheeled vehicle with a cERLL with minimal armor I still get ~350 BV  You basically have to artificially remove armor and keep the vehicle slow to get it near 300 BV.

Oh You mean Glass Cannon units like several different kinds of Missile Carriers, LRM-Flatbed Truck, and numerous others units?

Ive been making it clear since page 2 of this thread that Ive been working for making them using various tools. Battle Armor were one possibility under the reasoning that if you could get 4-6 BAs per hex with LRM-5s you could get the equivalent of an LRM-20 for much cheaper than a battlemech. Not really working because I dont have the rules so I dont know if you can have half a ton of ammo on a 2ton Battle Armor.

the Flatbed-LRM truck is one option. Its under 200 BV and 5/8 movement isnt bad. Its quite cheap, but even then maybe split it in half to have 2 LRM-5 trucks.

LRM Missile Carrier is another. Its speed it slower and continues to half almost no armor. Its greatest flaw is that its about 900 BV and it could be destroy in one lucky hit. So have about fractioning that? 6-12 separate units would be much more resilient.

The problem with glass units isnt that they have low defense, but rather they dont exploit that. Many do as having high speed makes you hard to hit, but also raises the cost alot. These ones dont have Vehicular stealth armor...or just divide them.

Custom Scout units are not really necessary. There are plenty already. Swiftwind, Ferret, The Sprint even has official C3 versions. Add some Stealth armor, maybe.

Not Frontline "tank" units are harder as the obvious problem is you can just ignore them. If they have massive armor and low weapons you can just skip to the nice glass cannons. In Theory you could make something with Hardened Armor at a relatively cheap cost. Maybe make it fast and use it to ram.

[JPArbiter]

Don’t underestimate the “fast” battlesuits. Fenrir, rotweiller, Rabids, Kishi, and the nightmarish Buraq are self propelling and capable

On the vehicle front, i am a great advocate for the “original five +1” in otherwords the vehicles from Battledroids. The vedette is a nice gap filler. The hunters and strikers are fantastic missile boats that are tougher then bulk carriers. The pegasus is universally great for flanking and scouting, and the demolisher is a defensive ball buster that I argue is better than most heavyweight mechs. The +1 comes from the humble Warrior helicopter. Either the lrm or ac2 versions can provide standoff firepower that doesn’t care about intervening terrain.

And all of those vehicles have great upgrades throughout history

[chaosticket]

Armor Hunters are my goal as they break the balance between armor, speed, and firepower by focusing on firepower. They are more cost-effective using the Battle Value system.  If youre not moving maximum speed then that engine is wasted.

Looking at Battle value some things actually multiply the base cost. It encourages specialist designs so having a super fast paper armored design is much cheaper than maximizing your armor with a high speed and lots of guns.

Edit: Okay can someone just tell me how to improve units without their costs going up disproportionately? I dont want to see 2000point medium units because they have strong guns.

[Major Headcase]

No one here has a magic wand to make a unit improve measurably without the BV going up with it... it just sounds like you are trying to hammer Battletech units and rules into shapes they aren't made to, and legally cannot go, and turning the rulebook sideways, backwards, and upside down, to find some angle to get around that fact... 😊 I'm at a loss as how to help you get what you want?? Good luck anyway though!

[Retry]

Oh You mean Glass Cannon units like several different kinds of Missile Carriers, LRM-Flatbed Truck, and numerous others units?

Even then.  A wheeled 10-ton cERLL carrier with 3/5 movement and 1.5 tons armor costs 317 BV.  Going 4/6 increases this to 347 BV.  The cost of a cERLL or 20 tubes of LRMs + ammo is just too high to feasibly mount them in platforms under 300 BV.

[Kovax]

The rules have been written to try to avoid exactly what you appear to be looking for: a clear "I win" loophole to the rules with something that can't be countered.  If you want the capabilities you're asking for, you have to pay for them, one way or another.

My own preference for a cheap battle line would be a wall of Striker light wheeled tanks (LRM-10 + SRM-6) or some LRM-equipped tracked tanks, with a smaller group of hovertanks as a maneuver element.  You can probably custom-design a tank with adequate front armor, some with an LRM rack and others for SRM protection, and just enough movement to do the job for a low cost and BV value.  The missile racks will probably be the biggest part of the cost, and the armor will mean that the time spent taking a group of them out will be disproportionately long compared to taking down a comparable value 'Mech.  The difference won't be extreme, however.  Tactics will still be more important than what units you put on the table, so if your tactics are poor, fielding "uber" units won't solve the problem.

[Daryk]

Sounds like APC variants are the order of the day here.  All three (hover, tracked and wheeled) have LRM and SRM versions for 108,000 C-Bills or less:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/111/armored-personnel-carrier-hover-lrm

[chaosticket]

I give up on the glass cannon idea. I would need about 12 rolls to hit once at longe range and to cause a piloting check would take about 400 LRMs per turn.

Im going the other direction to increase accuracy and minimize costs.

[Weirdo]

Good luck. Things that drive up accuracy(pulse lasers, C3 systems, improved pilots) trend to get expensive FAST.

For game balance reasons, those things are never gonna be very cheap. I think you're going to have to ramp up your expected BV expenditure by quite a bit, or greatly reduce your expected capability per cheap unit.

[Hellraiser]

It seems to me, what your looking for is a 4-man Hauberk Squad for 363 BV and 4x LRM5's.


http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4269/hauberk-battle-armor-standard

[Kit deSummersville]

Protomechs are something ive checked out, but they look like Masters of Nothing. They don't seem to have any distinct advantage.

Now if you could fit 4 lrm-5s or a CERlarge laser in one for less than 300BV that would be something.

I did make one with 2 LRM-15s in each Proto. Eventually we'll get a record sheet for that....