Author Topic: IlClan - who will it be  (Read 79505 times)

Ghostbear_Gurdel

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #30 on: 15 March 2013, 08:26:48 »
It cannot be a "new" Clan. They are not joust going to say "Yep, these guys that you never heard of took terra!". I also, do not expect a home clan. Honestly I think it will be the wolves. :( But remember, the Ilkhan is just the Clan that will always have the Ilkhan, so while the other Clans must respect and listen to their new supreme leader they are not just going to be absorbed. It just gives the council of 6 a constant leader, and a more centralized power structure, with the Ilkhan directing the Khans of the rest of the Clans.
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snewsom2997

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #31 on: 15 March 2013, 10:08:08 »
It cannot be a "new" Clan. They are not joust going to say "Yep, these guys that you never heard of took terra!". I also, do not expect a home clan. Honestly I think it will be the wolves. :( But remember, the Ilkhan is just the Clan that will always have the Ilkhan, so while the other Clans must respect and listen to their new supreme leader they are not just going to be absorbed. It just gives the council of 6 a constant leader, and a more centralized power structure, with the Ilkhan directing the Khans of the rest of the Clans.

The homeworld clans could sub-divide, and split, of course they could just as much unite.

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #32 on: 15 March 2013, 11:50:35 »
Whoever is ilClan, and presumably takes Terra, I predict Stone will return just to say "What? It's just Terra. I'm busy fighting the alien invasion. Go away."
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #33 on: 15 March 2013, 11:57:42 »
I'm torn between anticipation and horror of who it might be.  After having recently re-read 'Surrender Your Dreams' I started thinking it might be the Fidelis... but that's probably paranoia talking.

Really, having one Clan emerge 'victorious' by becoming ilClan... that means that Clan is destined for a long, hard fall.
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snewsom2997

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #34 on: 15 March 2013, 13:05:42 »
I'm torn between anticipation and horror of who it might be.  After having recently re-read 'Surrender Your Dreams' I started thinking it might be the Fidelis... but that's probably paranoia talking.

Really, having one Clan emerge 'victorious' by becoming ilClan... that means that Clan is destined for a long, hard fall.

Wouldn't it just make the IlClan Khan a new Royal House, and the rest of the Clans his Army, and Terra and whatever was held as their empire?. I always saw it as a way to build a new SL dynasty through meritocracy?

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #35 on: 15 March 2013, 13:22:51 »
I think the wolves will take it. They are poised to do it and if they can get backing from the rest of the clan it will just be easier. Plus, I couldn't hate to hard on a Kerensky holding the title of ilKahn.

ABADDON

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #36 on: 15 March 2013, 13:34:53 »
A Steiner-Davion would be holding the title of ilKhan, not a Kerensky.

Jaim Magnus

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #37 on: 15 March 2013, 13:46:20 »
Wouldn't it just make the IlClan Khan a new Royal House, and the rest of the Clans his Army, and Terra and whatever was held as their empire?. I always saw it as a way to build a new SL dynasty through meritocracy?

More a permanent first among equals kind of thing has always been my interpretation.

A Steiner-Davion would be holding the title of ilKhan, not a Kerensky.

By blood, sure.  He's a Wolf through and through though.  And it opens the door for a Kerensky to become ilKhan later, were the Wolves to be the ones to claim the prize.
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #38 on: 15 March 2013, 14:21:53 »
Wouldn't it just make the IlClan Khan a new Royal House, and the rest of the Clans his Army, and Terra and whatever was held as their empire?. I always saw it as a way to build a new SL dynasty through meritocracy?

I hope that if it a clan that takes Terra, that They become more like a house. Reform the Terran Hegemony (What ever they call it ) And make Earth a name to be respected and feared again :) If they do that ill be total behind them.

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #39 on: 15 March 2013, 14:35:53 »
It will be a janitor named Scruffy in the Ghost Bears. He apparently had a family line which had enough McKenna in him to place himself in the circles of power that mattered on the fateful day of ascension.

Then after the rise of a revised Human League, he leaves with the following speech: "Scruffy's going to retire the way he led." Then he will sit down in a nearby chair reading a magazine.

Though in all honesty I'd hope it was a collective efforts of the Clans to do it. That way they fight on Holy Terra and wreck it horribly.
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #40 on: 15 March 2013, 14:40:15 »
I hope that if it a clan that takes Terra, that They become more like a house. Reform the Terran Hegemony (What ever they call it ) And make Earth a name to be respected and feared again :) If they do that ill be total behind them.

Becoming less Clan-like in the process, and therefore less interesting to many Clan fans.
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Aleksandr

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #41 on: 15 March 2013, 14:52:57 »
If Alaric survived the taking of Terra to declare ilClanship, he does strike me as smart enough to also declare that it would be a rotating post, to make the other Clans want to acknowledge it and be supportive of it. Clan Wolf won the ilClanship, but the title of ilKhan might still be a rotating post, elected every 10 years by the council of 6, or something like that.

Then again, it also might mean the final breaking of the Council, with the Ravens, Bears and Sharks pulling out entirely. The Bears and Ravens are as much Sphereoid as they are Clan at this point, and the Sharks are well on their way to being entirely different from either of them.


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cavalier1645

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #42 on: 15 March 2013, 14:58:18 »
Becoming less Clan-like in the process, and therefore less interesting to many Clan fans.

Well it was the clan culture that always turn me off to the clans not to mention most clan players being min-maxers who wanted to play clans for the advantage in tech. I suppose their culture should surive. I just don't want to conquer holy Terra. and make it another clan world :) Terra special and should stay special. Btw aren't most of the clans now more IS then not. Some of them are morphing into IS states. (Ghost Bears, Nova Cat, Raven Alliance etc.) So isn't the clan culture slowly erroding anyway?

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #43 on: 15 March 2013, 15:11:03 »
Eroding?  No, I don't think so.  It has changed since the initial invasion, there's no denying that.  Many of the changes I like.  But making the Clans more like a great house diminishes them.  Fans of the houses have a bunch to choose from.  We don't need more at the expense of what makes the Clans unique.  Neither the houses or the Clans are going anywhere.
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #44 on: 15 March 2013, 15:19:24 »
If Alaric survived the taking of Terra to declare ilClanship, he does strike me as smart enough to also declare that it would be a rotating post, to make the other Clans want to acknowledge it and be supportive of it. Clan Wolf won the ilClanship, but the title of ilKhan might still be a rotating post, elected every 10 years by the council of 6, or something like that.

The whole point of the ilClan is that they get to permanently supply the ilKhan. Take that away and what's the attraction?

Aleksandr

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #45 on: 15 March 2013, 15:44:49 »
From a practical point of view, Terra itself is a greater prize. There are more factories there than any of the remaining Clan factory worlds, even if they're of a lesser tech base. I'm sure all of the Khans (Except maybe Malvina) realize that permanent ilKhanship is impossible at this point - if the Council of Six even recognizes the post of ilKhan at all - and I can't see Alaric going out of his way to aggravate the other Clans pointlessly when his own touman is undoubtedly exhausted and just settling into new territory. There's a lot of goodwill to be built by making concessions like that, and that goodwill could translate into good deals with other Clans' merchants, or the opening of new markets entirely to help him bring his new holdings up to Clan standards.

For the idealists in the Wolves, they still get to flaunt the fact that they were the ones to retake Terra. You can get decades of entertainment from rubbing that in the faces of the Falcons and Horses.  ;D


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wellspring

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #46 on: 15 March 2013, 16:29:02 »
I think people are to hung up on what IlClan used to mean and letting that cloud their judgement.

I agree totally with this. The previous definition of ilClan is only a Revival-era concept. You get the clan flagship (no longer available), ownership of katyusha city (no longer available), your clan permanently gets ownership of the ilKhan, and the non-clan-specific bureaucracy and staff are managed by you. That's it, IIRC.

And it's not at all clear that ilKhan is anything at all other than an out-of-date incentive from the original invasion. And to the extent that it exists at all, it might well have been refused along with the rest of the invasion in the Great Refusal.

I think everyone is assuming that becoming the ilClan is going to be the end of the story. To me, I see the title and think to myself, "A clan wins Terra and declares itself the ilClan. This is the story of what happened next." At least, that's how I'd write it. And what's important isn't how the politics would work out in some poly-sci theoretical sense, it's what will make for an interesting and fun game, and what makes sense from a writing/game development standpoint.

With the Wolves or Falcons, it's clearly a setup for extermination or at least being seriously taken down. But other than thinning out the supply of Wolf remnants, there aren't really any clans left that I want to see eliminated. Though they might see things differently. That could be how it plays if it were the Wolves-in-Exile or Nova Cats, but I think it could also be written as a massive surkairede story where this becomes the premise for one of them returning to the Council of (Seven). The Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens aren't interested IMO. The Home Clans would be an interesting twist, and a very interesting way to set up for the time jump.

Two other possibilities. First, the Sea Foxes. They're the only ones who would care about running the inter-clan bureaucracy. With strong mercantile ties to the rest of the Inner Sphere by this point, they're also the only clan that could take Terra where the other factions would have at least some excuse to accept their suzerainty. It would be much like ComStar: a pseudo-corporate neutral third party that isn't itself a major threat to the Inner Sphere. It's a stretch, but a writer could set up the right preamble to have it make sense, and you could have several interesting options for an aftermath that is interesting and gamer-friendly.

The second possibility is the Goliath Scorpions. They're a clan in between, literally and figuratively. They're also totally on their own, isolated from the Grand Council and the Council of Six, fit only to be used as pawns in the espionage proxy war between the respective factions' Watches. So a "hell bent for leather" attempt to reforge the Star League by collecting the ultimate fragment of the lost Star League -- Terra -- might be a play of desperation rather than play for power. (And again winning terra for the clans might be offered as Surkairede to get back into the good graces of the IS clans). Suddenly the Scorpion Empire becomes a legit clan again. Sure beats forming a Council of Three with the exile wolves and cats.

Anyway, ultimately you still want a fragmented IS with room and motivation for Mechs to fight one another.


Niopsian

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #47 on: 15 March 2013, 16:33:28 »
A Steiner-Davion would be holding the title of ilKhan, not a Kerensky.

"Between the fall of the ancient Star League and the rise of the heirs of Steiner-Davion, there was an Age undreamed of..."

It's been right in front of us for decades. >:D


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Diablo48

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #48 on: 15 March 2013, 17:01:42 »
The Ghost Bears have always been the closest to Civilian Castes in their territory and have the might to not only garrison their territory but stretch out and seize more worlds for themselves without leaving themselves open. They would be the least likely to tolerate a Clan ravaging Terra and the first to jump down a Clans throat for doing so. And I doubt Malvina would have much luck against the Bears even with the Hell's Horses as allies.

This is all very true, but the Bears are also typically slow to get moving and cautious about overextending themselves which makes it less likely for them to try to make a play for Terra.  They might make a grab at some of the closer OZs in retaliation or dispatch a task force with the approval of other powers, but Terra is just too far from Bear territory for them to consider taking and holding it.


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rebs

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #49 on: 15 March 2013, 17:49:47 »
O0 since my dream team of wolves ravens and bears seems unlikely I'd vote for this.

It's a longshot, but vote early, vote often.   ;)

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« Last Edit: 15 March 2013, 17:54:46 by rebs »
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #50 on: 15 March 2013, 17:54:05 »
The Dog IlClan Triumvirate.  United Wolf, Coyote, Seafox

Technically the Sea fox are "reptilian". Of course we could "forget" it for a good (really good) commercial agreement  >:D.

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #51 on: 15 March 2013, 17:56:50 »
Technically the Sea fox are "reptilian". Of course we could "forget" it for a good (really good) commercial agreement  >:D.

Cheap clan tech for everyone with an ilClan card ;)

Always at your friendly neighborhood Sea Fox outlet world/dropship.   O0
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Fletch

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #52 on: 15 March 2013, 19:43:20 »
It will be a janitor named Scruffy in the Ghost Bears. He apparently had a family line which had enough McKenna in him to place himself in the circles of power that mattered on the fateful day of ascension.

I thought the janitor was the Bloodnamed Sweeper, Roger Wilco

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #53 on: 16 March 2013, 06:09:20 »
Which Clan will win the ilClanship, they are supposed to get corrupted by this power.

So I hope it will not be any of the Homeclans.
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Mecha-Anchovy

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #54 on: 17 March 2013, 02:39:04 »
My bet is the Wolves.

Why?

Because both Jonathan Cameron and Stefan Amaris predicted it.

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #55 on: 17 March 2013, 06:36:31 »
The likely suspects(in pseudo-order):

1.) Wolves, they're close, they seem poised to annex the Commonwealth, they are lead by a guy who seems to want Terra, and they seem to have the resources to pull it off.

2.) Falcons, they want it bad, they have a leader who is crazy enough to try it, and they are on the march.

3.) Homeclans; we're In the dark but a long term plan to take the Hansa and launch from there seems feasible.  Also have upgraded watch statuses to the point that they could have caused the blackout (big if on that), which would make sense.  It's a much longer shot than the first two.  With what w Eco know from WoR and WoRS I find it highly unlikely that the homeclans don't have eyes and ears in the sphere.

4.) Shark/Fox; I don't see it because the motivation doesn't seem to be there but maybe they've been building in secret and have the jump tech to get there.

5.) Bears; maybe a more aggressive crusader minded khan takes over and all of a sudden the bear roars to life.  It's possible but a longer shot.

6.) everybody else; no one else has the firepower or seemingly the ambition by 3145


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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #56 on: 17 March 2013, 06:52:46 »
4.) Shark/Fox; I don't see it because the motivation doesn't seem to be there but maybe they've been building in secret and have the jump tech to get there.
I don't think they're after Terra, but the Sea Foxes are definitely up to something.

wellspring

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #57 on: 17 March 2013, 08:30:40 »
I don't think they're after Terra, but the Sea Foxes are definitely up to something.

I agree too. I'm just talking about what makes for a better story and game setting. If Victor had been another Hanse, finished off the Capellans and then married into the Kuritas or Mariks to form a new star league, it would have been plausible but not made for much of a story or fun gaming opportunities.

The Foxes are one of the few clans that could take the ilKhanship and NOT totally break the setting. OTOH those are the same reasons it's not terribly plausible that they would.

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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #58 on: 17 March 2013, 10:05:25 »
Whichever is dumb enough to accept the position. People are always under the impression that whenever you attain a higher rank or position it means all these benefits and no costs at all- that is true- but only in a super-crony system and even then there will usually be major head-aches and risks associated with securing your position and dealing with the endless amounts of demands placed.

Whoever is IlClan will not simply be able to allocate their responsibilities to other Clans and fight on the front lines. Whichever Clan becomes IlClan will have to manage not only the other Clans, making sure they don't fight each other, but also the devious and sneaky Spheroids. So much time will be spent with respect to administration, arbitration, security, and consolidation that they will get almost no time engaged in actual front-line combat.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2013, 10:09:44 by DireWolfV »
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Re: IlClan - who will it be
« Reply #59 on: 17 March 2013, 10:39:00 »
Making sure the other Clans don't fight will itself require fighting.  The problem the ilClan faces is that they will have to spend their forces on policing actions and trials against the other Clans.  Unless they're very VERY good at politics, and seeing as how we're talking about the Clans here, that's not very likely.

The ilKhan may not see much combat due to administration, but the Clan itself will.  It's just the nature of the Clan system.
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