Author Topic: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?  (Read 3249 times)

Colt Ward

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After the Jihad, the Clans engage with trade with the IS- IMO Rending of Falcons with the Lyran ambassador gives a good idea of what it takes to travel into that strict OZ.  The Ghost Bear Dominion would be a bit easier I think but . . .

Say a IS Jumpship arrives over a border Dominion world and broadcasts a challenge to the local garrison-

A super-rich trophy hunter wants to engage in a Trial of Possession for the Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild, presumably on Alshain as I think that is the only IS world they were introduced on.

Would the local garrison engage in the Trial to prevent the hunter from being able to hunt a Ghost Bear?
Would the local garrison engage in the Trial or give them safcon to Alshain to conduct the Trial?
Would the local garrison engage in a Trial for the right to travel to Alshain to make the challenge?

Say the super-rich guy has hired two companies of mercs- or maybe has his own personal security/guard forces since that would be more culturally acceptable- and gets to Alshain to make that challenge after the Jihad . . . how would the Bears respond?  What would they defend their totem with?

And finally . . . the appropriate plot-twist, while the Clawing is a ritual for the Clan warriors, what sort of limitations would the Clan put on allowing the hunter to hunt? military grade spear?  traditional bow weapon?  16th century replica crossbow?  black powder rifle from 1800 design? a replica Winchester model 1895?
Colt Ward
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Elmoth

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #1 on: 29 October 2018, 12:09:32 »
Dead dropship. It is like you coming to my home and asking to do bad things to my daughter. Not gonna happen. Ever.
the fact that you are filling official paperwork to claim that it is legal is of no concern to me (amnd you are not entitled to fill that lousy paperwork anyway, you lowlife IS guy).
If it happens is because I am already dead.
« Last Edit: 29 October 2018, 12:12:28 by Elmoth »

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #2 on: 29 October 2018, 12:41:46 »
Yeah, the Diamond Sharks, maybe if you offer the right price they will let you bend some rules. The Bears aren't going to even think twice about the offer.

Now if you were escorting a biology team just going to study them scientifically, that I could see as something they might be willing to negotiate about....
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Colt Ward

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #3 on: 29 October 2018, 13:04:15 »
Dead dropship. It is like you coming to my home and asking to do bad things to my daughter. Not gonna happen. Ever.
the fact that you are filling official paperwork to claim that it is legal is of no concern to me (amnd you are not entitled to fill that lousy paperwork anyway, you lowlife IS guy).
If it happens is because I am already dead.

Be honest, I am not thrilled with the analogy since the Bear warriors themselves engage in ritualistic hunts (raises the question of if freeborn Rasalhague warriors would get the invite- did Ragnar?) with spears as teams which is why I was wondering about the conditions.
Colt Ward
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Wotan

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #4 on: 29 October 2018, 13:57:17 »
I recommend the super-rich to prepare for getting his answer volley from the CGB Rasalhague broadside.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #5 on: 29 October 2018, 17:41:11 »
Also consider that if this hunter does somehow undergo this hunt one might consider it an actual Clawing attempt that could make a mockery of the Clan Way.

Broadside from the Rasalhague, a boarding by Valkyrie Galaxy or Zeta Galaxy, or just a Polaris dropping a Cruise Missile on you are appropriate actions. After a warning to turn around and never consider it against.

Foxx Ital

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #6 on: 29 October 2018, 18:43:08 »
Cannonly no poacher has returned after illegally hunting the ghostbear. 
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haesslich

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #7 on: 29 October 2018, 20:18:48 »
Cannonly no poacher has returned after illegally hunting the ghostbear.
.
I think that's because, canonically, the Ghost Bears like big cannon. Have you seen the Ursus 2 or Kodiak?

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #8 on: 29 October 2018, 23:22:01 »
“He wants want?” Star Colonel Roland Becker howled.
The blocky, giant of a man reared up, reminding his subordinate so much of their Clan’s own totem - the towering Ghost Bear - standing on its hind legs.
“Aff, Star Colonel. This Lyran has-“ Star Captain Elizabeth was cut off as Becker - she could not stop thinking of him as some sort of ursine hybrid now - lunged forward and with a casual flick of his wrist sent his desk flying end over end.
Papers, plastic folders and data pads went sailing as the desk crashed into the wall with a crash.

Enraged, Becker squared his shoulders and stared about as if looking for fresh prey. His fists were clenched and his breath coming in short rapid snorts.

It had long been rumoured the cluster Commander was the result of a Mechwarrior/Elemental hybrid sibko and looking at the hulking, dark haired man with the thick mat of chest hair sticking out from the neck of his jumpsuit, Elizabeth was starting to believe the barracks scuttlebutt.

“Star Colonel, he has invoked a trial of possession, bargaining for the right to hunt a Ghost Bear. His challenge must be met,” she said.

Her commander shook his head, his face a mask of hate.

“This... this barbarian Surat demands to take part in our most holy ritual?” He demanded
“I shall kill him in orbit, destroy his ship with our fighters and give him the death he deserves - cold and forgotten tumbling through the inky, cold black.”

He’d worked himself into a rage again and was now pacing the tiny room, heedless of the strewn items he was standing on and kicking about.

“I shall kill that... that... Freebirth piece of amphibian shit! I will rend him, I shall destroy him! I shall make him bleed!”

“Star Colonel, you have to admit this Count Schneider is bold, quaff?” she said.

Her CO turned on her, murder in his eyes.

“I only mean that he demands what is only granted to our best, blooded warriors.”

Becker stopped: “Star Captain, explain your worlds quickly. If you do not, you shall face a trial and your Trianry will be looking for a new leader while you attempt to train snot nosed sibkins, despite the lack of your tongue”.

Elizabeth smiled. The Clans put little emphasis on physical beauty - knowing, correctly, it was just vanity and that the true mark of a Warrior was strength of arms. But Elizabeth knew how well her wide, sensuous smile and perfect white teeth charmed her commander.

“Sir, this Freebirth asks for a warrior’s reward, quaff? So set him a warrior’s test to prove his worthiness. Make him sit a trial of position to ensure his eligibility.”

The big man smiled slowly. “Aff, Star Captain. Aff. For there is little chance this monied Surat will survive.”


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Jellico

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #9 on: 30 October 2018, 01:03:23 »
You realize that no one has to accept a request for a Trial? Otherwise any surat could bother anybody all day long with inconsequential requests.

Kidd

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #10 on: 30 October 2018, 01:13:23 »
dezgra freebirth spheroid surat scum don't get Trials, they get exterminated

I recommend the super-rich to prepare for getting his answer volley from the CGB Rasalhague broadside.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #11 on: 30 October 2018, 10:04:38 »
You realize that no one has to accept a request for a Trial? Otherwise any surat could bother anybody all day long with inconsequential requests.

When in canon has a Clan refused a Trial of Possession?  Yes, a unblooded warrior cannot challenge a bloodnamed to certain trials without the bloodnamed's agreement or the approval of Clan leadership (Vlad vs Christu) and a ilKhan/Loremaster cannot be challenged as the ilKhan/Loremaster (Vlad again & Alaric).  And while the peer pressure of the Grand Council no longer exists, the Council of Six has started up and the debacle of the Wars of Reaving with its accusations is not too far in the past.  If the Trial is not accepted, if it is given a casual dismissal the Clan itself could be seen to lose face.  Responding with a warship could be considered a loss of face, though responding with a powerful ground force (BV advantage to the Bears?) would not be IMO- it would be like the Wolves defending the Orion IIC and Kerensky heritages.

I think a interesting twist would be for the Bears to claim the hunter as isorla if his guards lose- and they let the ghost bears hunt him.  They would not want him to duplicate a Clawing, so what would he be allowed to hunt the ghost bear with instead of a team of spears?
Colt Ward
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SteveRestless

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #12 on: 30 October 2018, 10:48:14 »
I think the big problem here is that the hunter is not a Warrior. No one is obligated to honor his challenge, because no one is obligated to recognize him as a Warrior.  From the sound of it, he's just a civilian. Bob the Milkman couldn't walk up to them and challenge for a trial of possession for a Kodiak battlemech any more than this guy could waltz up and try and provoke a trial to hunt a Ghost Bear. Add to it, that Big Game Hunting is generally something indulged in by a social class that the clans don't really respect. There's no face to be lost, if it's not a warrior making the challenge. I don't think it would face some overwhelming violent response, I think it would just be laughed at and treated like a four year old who wants to drive on the interstate.

As a Spheroid, he's lacking a bloodname, and a planet as important as Alshain is definitely going to be overseen by a bloodnamed warrior, so the trial could be ignored on those grounds as well.

I think, to pull it off, you would have to be a recognized warrior of a clan whose authority the Ghost Bears acknowledge. A Wolf, a Falcon, a Sea Fox, a Raven, a Hell's Horse, maybe even a Wolf Exile. Maybe you were a mechwarrior, who was also a big game hunter, then taken into a clan as a bondsman and now you have got enough clout to go and provoke the bears over something silly like this. I suspect that you would be forbidden from making the hunt too closely resemble a clawing. and I imagine you would find yourself dealing with something of a spite trial from the bears, because you have roused them and they have your scent.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Colt Ward

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #13 on: 30 October 2018, 11:32:07 »
I think the big problem here is that the hunter is not a Warrior. No one is obligated to honor his challenge, because no one is obligated to recognize him as a Warrior.  From the sound of it, he's just a civilian. Bob the Milkman couldn't walk up to them and challenge for a trial of possession for a Kodiak battlemech any more than this guy could waltz up and try and provoke a trial to hunt a Ghost Bear. Add to it, that Big Game Hunting is generally something indulged in by a social class that the clans don't really respect. There's no face to be lost, if it's not a warrior making the challenge. I don't think it would face some overwhelming violent response, I think it would just be laughed at and treated like a four year old who wants to drive on the interstate.

As a Spheroid, he's lacking a bloodname, and a planet as important as Alshain is definitely going to be overseen by a bloodnamed warrior, so the trial could be ignored on those grounds as well.

I know the typical conditions and perhaps I phrased it poorly since I already gave a nod to the cultural aspect of not having mercs be a part of the challenge, it would of course be issued by the commander of the noble's guard.

Bloodname?  Unblooded warriors in command of units participate in and issue challenges for Trials of Possession all the time.  Trials of Grievance or Refusal are where it has been blocked for single/personal combat between warriors without the Bloodnamed approval.  Every single raid in the 3050s against the Clan OZs that followed Trial format was a unblooded spheriod's challenge being accepted.  The Highlander's gambit of masquerading as Jaguars had a unblooded commander issuing Trials against bloodnamed warriors.  So it happens, as I said find a example where a Trial of Possession between two groups was ignored or refused.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Kidd

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #14 on: 30 October 2018, 13:43:35 »

 So it happens, as I said find a example where a Trial of Possession between two groups was ignored or refused.
Nova Cat Abjurement in general; Wars of Reaving, several times; Shattered Fortress, that Wolf who tried to Trial Malvina - "lol nope, dezgra scumbag don't get Trial rights", vapourised

Colt Ward

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #15 on: 30 October 2018, 14:09:35 »
IIRC the NC Abjurement they just grabbed without declaring a Trial.  Wars of Reaving?   Trials of Annhilation, not Possession but I will admit I have not looked through that book for some time. . . . Shattered Fortress?  I assume you are referring to the defense of Arc Royal.  Khan Patrik Fetladral called out a personal challenge to Malvina, a Trial of Grievance over her actions against the training facility.  Yes, she ignored it and did a Christu replay.  The Falcons did not declare a Trial as they were inbound, nor did they follow zell once they were on the ground.

If you want to use Malvina as your standard then you have other problems . . . if the Bears of 3080 want to use the Malvina standard, then they have other problems . . . its also extremely out of character.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Kidd

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #16 on: 30 October 2018, 15:13:40 »
Not a TOP exactly, but Trial in general - Refusal, Grievance, etc. If one declares the other party dezgra, all zells are off. No safcon no duel nothing. And when faced with an IS civilian, there's precedent stretching back to 3060 that anyone not a fully paid-up Clan warrior may be treated on the commander's whim as not qualifying for zellbrigen, and summarily executed.

Colt Ward

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #17 on: 30 October 2018, 16:12:44 »
Which is why I made the distinction since we do have actual rules about how Trials between individuals can be treated.

Alright, since I brought up face . . . would the Bear's response be different if the Raven, Shark/Foxes and say Horse or Wolf representatives on Alshain were made aware of the challenge at the time it was made?
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Jellico

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #18 on: 30 October 2018, 17:39:55 »
They would be told to get stuffed.

All the Clans have issues too valuable to Trial over. The killing of the Sea Foxes created centuries of enmity. The Ravens have up on giving the Vipers Safcon.

Ghost Bears are too close to too many cultural and institutional trigger points.

And besides the answer is known. It has been established that no known poachers have ever survived. If they are resorting to poaching permission is clearly not being given.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2018, 17:42:04 by Jellico »

Zeruel

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Re: Trial of Possession- Right to hunt a Ghost Bear in the wild?
« Reply #19 on: 16 December 2018, 04:32:28 »
So it happens, as I said find a example where a Trial of Possession between two groups was ignored or refused.

Second Naval Battle of Alshain/Trial of Retribution...the initial batchall by Khan Leroux was refused by Star Admiral Gilmour

while the second batchall was accepted by the remaining Ghost Bear forces, and the two parties agreed the Nova Cats could punish the first Ghost Bear force was not accepting, I don't really see what an Inner Sphere civilian would be able to do in such a situation
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