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Optional rules for MechWarrior Second Edition.
The spaces below are the current rules I have that I just need to change formats on.
Feel free to add any of your Optional/Home rules here.
Constructive opinions and ideas are welcome. :thumbsup:
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General Rule changes.
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Affiliation Optional rules:
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Missing Schools From 2nd Ed
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Civilian Skill Packages.
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More Clan Warrior Packages
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Appreciate this as an old schooler. :thumbsup:
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Clan Caste Packages
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Appreciate this as an old schooler. :thumbsup:
You are Welcome!
Feel free to chime in on other areas that need to be addressed or errors that need to be corrected.
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Mechwarrior 2nd Hybrid Vehicle Combat System (Coming Soon)
Will be a fully integrated combat system using a hybrid of (MW 2nd/Alpha Strike/MW:Destiny)
Parts
Mechwarriors and Skills from MW 2nd
Most rules from Alpha Strike
Damage diagrams, Damage conversions, and some edge rules from MW:Destiny
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First new update in a while.
Sorry for the long absents.
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What's the update?
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What's the update?
Added the capellan academies under missing schools.
Will be adding the others as time permits.
Will also be adding a sections on:
1. new advantages and optional rules for disadvantages.
2. Intelligence departments and the packages that make them up, like DEST (Special forces IOS, Battlemech Pilot MOS) etc.
3. New skill uses.
4. An Index on the location of all MW2 rules.
5. And More.
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I only glanced through this in idle curiosity, and one question comes to mind: Do you have updated weapons stats for the newer range of personnel fire-arms?
I have MW 2nd Ed, and I recall the weapons list being kinda light compared to what can be found in Total Warfare's infantry construction rules.
Thanks. And I apologize if I missed it.
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New Advantages
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I only glanced through this in idle curiosity, and one question comes to mind: Do you have updated weapons stats for the newer range of personnel fire-arms?
I have MW 2nd Ed, and I recall the weapons list being kinda light compared to what can be found in Total Warfare's infantry construction rules.
Thanks. And I apologize if I missed it.
No you didn't miss anything. :thumbsup: After going over Mechwarrior 2, Mechwarrior Companion, and The Intelligence Handbook I found that there where actually few weapons and equipment that were not covered from AToW. Most of the items not covered were just named variance of the covered items. But when I find time I will be working on converting them to MW2.
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New Disadvantages Rules
Combined with new Advantages into one document. See above.
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I always remember my friend Bradshaw making fun of the 1 point 'human' in the MW2 RPG system.
Also on the memory front I made another Psionic chart for a ripoff home game that we had fun with. Based on Sixth Sense a character could choose to be a Psi if they wanted with varying degrees of power.
We really loved the simplicity of this system. Good to see someone still working on it!
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I always remember my friend Bradshaw making fun of the 1 point 'human' in the MW2 RPG system.
Also on the memory front I made another Psionic chart for a ripoff home game that we had fun with. Based on Sixth Sense a character could choose to be a Psi if they wanted with varying degrees of power.
We really loved the simplicity of this system. Good to see someone still working on it!
Glade you like it.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the items that I have posted (Feedback/Ideas/Complaints) ;)
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I too use psionics in my game. I really like them. Certain advantages can lead to psionics if proper training or devotion spent on them. For example, sixth sense can lead to clairvoyance and toughness can get you body awareness. They have saved my players butts more than once.
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I'm in a current campaign in roughly the 3059 in the periphery, so getting new stuff added to the existing MW2 edition really cool. I still like this system to all the other one out there.
I've not found destiny is my thing, its too lite. :D
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Well, fun thing about MW2 is that it doesn't take much to turn it into a better rendition of BattleTroops.
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I too use psionics in my game. I really like them. Certain advantages can lead to psionics if proper training or devotion spent on them. For example, sixth sense can lead to clairvoyance and toughness can get you body awareness. They have saved my players butts more than once.
While I'm not really into the whole psionics idea in battletech, you are right the mechanics do tend to lend themselves to it. I think it has to do with the mechanics being a derivative of Shadowrun 1st edition (1989)
Well, fun thing about MW2 is that it doesn't take much to turn it into a better rendition of BattleTroops.
I'm guessing BattleTroops and DMZ where influences on the creation of the combat systems in MW2
and the maps from both work well for RPG.
Funny think is how well I feel MW2 handled Elementals in 3 pages compared to BattleTroops. A feat I have yet to see any of the other MW RPGs pull-off.
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Psionics are actually easily acceptable in BT, especially if you read from the old House Kurita source book, or any of Stackpole's Warrior trilogy.
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New Equipment
Power Packs and Rechargers
Power Packs T/A/L Cost Power Capacity Note
Micro, Standard 3/A/A 10 15
Micro, Q-C 3/A/A 20 10 Quick-Charge
Micro, H-C 4/B/A 30 30
Standard, Clan 4/A/A 25 30 Quick-Charge
Military, Clan 4/B/A 200 300 Quick-Charge
Micro, Clan 4/B/A 50 20 Quick-Charge
Satchel, Clan 4/B/A 100 150 Quick-Charge
Portable Power Unit 2/A/A 10 80 Slow-Charge
Support PPC Power unit 3/B/B 750 1,500 Powers 1 Support PPC or 6 Smaller items.
Rechargers T/A/L Cost Recharge Rate Notes
Fusion 3/D/A 5,000 100PPH Clan/Comstar only
Heavy-Duty 2/A/A 50 200PPH May service up to 5 power packs at a time
Power Grid 2/A/A 10* 50PPH * cost is for the adapter
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New updates:
1. Corrected Advantages to better reflect MW2 mechanics, and added some notes for experienced character creation.
2. Add Disadvantages.
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Have been working on weapon and armor conversion.
Armor turned out to be fairly simple and should be up after some reformatting from the excel file its currently in.
Weapons on the other hand are turning out to be a headache.
Biggest issues is ranges appear to be way off from each other and damage is not anywhere close to a direct conversion. So my normal way of handling this conversion (not posting or changing existing items) doesn't look like it will work here.
Have made some inquirers with the powers that be and will likely be on hold for a response.
For now I will get back to work on the School conversions and other items that don't require that information.
That said, I would like to know from players that are interested in this conversion.
1. Are you fine with a complete reworking of weapon ranges to be more inline with 3rd/AToW or do you prefer they stay closer to MW2 original stats?
2. I have started some work on era related Priority tables and affiliations, is this something you guys want or should I put it on the back burned, since I already put up a generic one?
3. Is a new hybrid Vehicle combat system using a more MW:D/MW2 companion type system (MW2 rules using MW:D armor diagram) needed or do you think the current MW2 companion/CBT system is fine?
4. Are rules for Background packages needed or is that a bit much for MW2?
5. Is there anything that I have missed that you want to see (yes I do request :thumbsup:) ?
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That said, I would like to know from players that are interested in this conversion.
1. Are you fine with a complete reworking of weapon ranges to be more inline with 3rd/AToW or do you prefer they stay closer to MW2 original stats?
Isn't 3rd ed/AToW on a different damage gradient? One of the things I liked about MW2 was taking a mechanic from the parent game and expanding it - the pilot damage/consciousness table. One of the more intuitive designs I've seen. Also, I like the damage locations and effects. You could practically outfit a Mech Sheet to rep a human, if you wanted to.
I have no problem if you can't get a direct conversion from MW2 to MW3 or AToW. Fudge things if you have to, but err on the side of the chart that is the basis for MW2.
Example: the Battle Rifle out of TW- it's supposed to do about half a point of BT damage. A point of BT damage roughly equates to a full kill for a single person. So, there you go.
2. I have started some work on era related Priority tables and affiliations, is this something you guys want or should I put it on the back burned, since I already put up a generic one?
I have no stance on this, yet, since I haven't done proper campaigns with this system.
3. Is a new hybrid Vehicle combat system using a more MW:D/MW2 companion type system (MW2 rules using MW:D armor diagram) needed or do you think the current MW2 companion/CBT system is fine?
I'm fine with the CBT being the go-to for armored combat. The only exception I have would be ProtoMechs and Battle Armor.
4. Are rules for Background packages needed or is that a bit much for MW2?
I'm actually okay with additional rules, especially if they're optional. Maybe you should look into making a GM book or set of guidelines when it comes to enforcing character creation packages based on where the campaign is to start.
5. Is there anything that I have missed that you want to see (yes I do request :thumbsup:) ?
I want to see this simplified a bit so we could do a quick-and-dirty BattleTroops level game. Any suggestions on how far to condense the damage? Any suggestions for stock infantry, minor character variations, and faction armor/weapon packages? By era?
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Isn't 3rd ed/AToW on a different damage gradient? One of the things I liked about MW2 was taking a mechanic from the parent game and expanding it - the pilot damage/consciousness table. One of the more intuitive designs I've seen. Also, I like the damage locations and effects. You could practically outfit a Mech Sheet to rep a human, if you wanted to.
I have no problem if you can't get a direct conversion from MW2 to MW3 or AToW. Fudge things if you have to, but err on the side of the chart that is the basis for MW2.
Example: the Battle Rifle out of TW- it's supposed to do about half a point of BT damage. A point of BT damage roughly equates to a full kill for a single person. So, there you go.
This question had more to do with ranges then damage.
On damage I can just do cross comparisons to existing MW2 weapons and get a round about dice code.
The issues come with the ranges.
There seems to be a soft cap of around 30 hexes for Small Arms in MW2, where this is not the case in AToW. I would gues that they where trying to limit the range in MW2 to fit on smaller mapboards.
Example: The MAUSER 960 ASSAULT SYSTEM has a range of 55(15)/170(34)/365(73)/740(148) in AToW but the ranges for MW2 are 1-7/8-15/16-30
##(**): #-range in meters, *-range in hexes.
And this is an ongoing issues with most range weapons.
1. I could come up with guess ranges that fit the MW2 limits.
2. I could run conversions of all weapon ranges to match the AToW stats, from what I can tell at this point it shouldn't hurt the system at all.
Example: New MAUSER 960 ASSAULT SYSTEM ranges: 1-15/16-34/35-73 (dropping Extreme range), or I could even cut them in half (round up) and get 1-8/9-17/18-37 which would be closer to MW2 Ranges, but I would have to do it to all weapons including those already present in the game.
I have no stance on this, yet, since I haven't done proper campaigns with this system.
The table would handle eras like the Starleague (No Clans, higher starting priority for Terrain PCs) and Clan golden age (less powerful Phenotypes do to the young age of the Clans breeding program)
The era Affiliations could take up considerable room.
I'm fine with the CBT being the go-to for armored combat. The only exception I have would be ProtoMechs and Battle Armor.
Not sure what you mean by your exceptions.
1. You want them to follow MW2 rules and not CBT?
2. You want them to have their own system?
3. I'm reading to much into it
I'm actually okay with additional rules, especially if they're optional. Maybe you should look into making a GM book or set of guidelines when it comes to enforcing character creation packages based on where the campaign is to start.
Only issues I have seen so far with putting backgrounds in, are the same ones that cropped up with Affiliations.
1. Character get a lot more skills then they normally would.
2. Unlike the AToW/3rd character creation system MW2 gives skills in full values not points and due to the way skills are advanced in MW2 have a Small Arms skill of 2 and then getting Small Arms skill of 1 doesn't equal 3 as skills level 3 would cost 6 points and the above example equal 4.
Have thought about making Background packages something a character can buy at a discounted price, but this seems to bring on its own problems due to the limited skill point you get at the start.
If I put them in they would need to have the same requirement I used for the Affiliation.
Everyone must have them or no one gets them.
only way to balance them.
I want to see this simplified a bit so we could do a quick-and-dirty BattleTroops level game. Any suggestions on how far to condense the damage? Any suggestions for stock infantry, minor character variations, and faction armor/weapon packages? By era?
The Standard Kits are listed in AToW so it shouldn't be to hard to put together a loadout list for the average trooper.
As for weapons, I was under the impression that BattleTroop had a unit breakdown and weapon load out example in it already.
And a quick aside, do you have the MW2 Companion?
It has IMHO great infantry/Battlearmor rules.
If you are looking for something more.
This would have to be a project down the road as I am currently only working a Options for the MW2 rules right now.
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(1-3) Bloodmark- MW2: A character with the Bloodmark Disadvantage has a price on his head and is being actively hunted by bounty hunters looking to collect. The level chosen determines the frequency and total bounty as determined by the GM and Player at the start of the campaign.
GM: You took a level 3 blood mark? What is it?
Player: I slept with a young Ms. Steiner before she was of age. Why is that a problem?
GM: You are a fragging idiot and you pretty much have most of the IS gunning for your head.
Player: So, lots of salavge that way.
GM: (just does a facepalm.)
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(1-3) Bloodmark- MW2: A character with the Bloodmark Disadvantage has a price on his head and is being actively hunted by bounty hunters looking to collect. The level chosen determines the frequency and total bounty as determined by the GM and Player at the start of the campaign.
GM: You took a level 3 blood mark? What is it?
Player: I slept with a young Ms. Steiner before she was of age. Why is that a problem?
GM: You are a fragging idiot and you pretty much have most of the IS gunning for your head.
Player: So, lots of salvage that way.
GM: (just does a facepalm.)
So is this a request for a harder outline to the frequency and total bounty or was it just a joke? ;D
I left it open because years of RPGs has shown me that every GM/group is different.
I figured any chart or set numbers I gave would be wrong in somebodies eyes. :ticked: or :smitten: its all the same.
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Update to conversion.
Will have the Armor stats soon.
Weapons will have new ranges bringing them in line with AToW.
Others to follow.
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This question had more to do with ranges then damage.
Ah. I think I'd prefer the longer ranges, honestly.
Not sure what you mean by your exceptions.
1. You want them to follow MW2 rules and not CBT?
2. You want them to have their own system?
3. I'm reading to much into it
Number 2, which ties in with...
And a quick aside, do you have the MW2 Companion?
It has IMHO great infantry/Battlearmor rules.
If you are looking for something more.
I do not. Sounds like something to hunt down.
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Ah. I think I'd prefer the longer ranges, honestly.
Same here, so I went for the modified ranges. Since I will probably not be able to relist already existing weapons, any that do not appear in my update can be determined by using the following formula: drop extreme range (not used in MW2) then divided all ranges by five (rounded up). Minimum short range is 1-2/x-x/x-x. IF Med/Long range are les then 15 then weapon would be 1-2/NA/NA.
Number 2, which ties in with...
I do not. Sounds like something to hunt down.
It is available from DrivethruRPG at this link: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/63980/BattleTech-MechWarrior-Companion?cPath=4328_4541 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/63980/BattleTech-MechWarrior-Companion?cPath=4328_4541)
Other books you may want to get for MW2 if you do not have them as I will not be repeating information that shows up in them are:
(All seem to be on DrivethruRPG and/or CGL store)
Intelligence Operations Handbook ($9)
Field Manual: Comstar. ($10)
Field Manual: Draconis Combine.($10)
Field Manual: Free Worlds League.($10)
Field Manual: Mercenaries (Non-revised).($10)
Field Manual: Warden Clans.($11)
Field Manual: Crusader Clans.($11)
Chaos March sourcebook.($6)
Explorer Corps. ($8)
Intelligence Op adds rules for creating Covert PCs and some spy gear.
The Innersphere FMs add Schools for character creation and new Battlearmor with MW2 Stats.
The Clan FMs add new Battlearmor with MW2 Stats.
Explorer Corps adds more advanced rules for operating in space and other extreme conditions. Also has star system gen rules.
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I have almost all of the rest of those, especially the FMs.
Chaos March and the last one are probably the only two I don't have.
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I do not. Sounds like something to hunt down.
Did you get your hands on MW2 Companion and have a chance to look over the rules?
I have almost all of the rest of those, especially the FMs.
Chaos March and the last one are probably the only two I don't have.
Good to know, as you are only one of the three (including me) that it seems I am writing this for. ;D
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Well I am enjoying this, four?
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Well I am enjoying this, four?
I was counting you as one of the three. :thumbsup:
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So is this a request for a harder outline to the frequency and total bounty or was it just a joke? ;D
I left it open because years of RPGs has shown me that every GM/group is different.
I figured any chart or set numbers I gave would be wrong in somebodies eyes. :ticked: or :smitten: its all the same.
Someone somewhere would do this. I was doing it for the joke of a pc screwing the rest of the party and forcing the gm to do a party kill because of said idiot.
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Did you get your hands on MW2 Companion and have a chance to look over the rules?
Not yet. I'm looking at potentially this weekend.
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Update
Bad News: Due to being sick this weekend I was unable to put much work into the conversion.
Good News: Most of the weapons conversion is done, just working on equipment ratings and some finishing touches.
As for Armor, I will be doing a quick once over then I will need to convert them from Excel format (What I use for conversions) to a more useable PDF format.
The plan for weapons is to list them all in one handy format with page references to lore.
Schools have been on the back burner as I worked on Advantages/Disadvantages, Background Packages, and Affiliations.
Advantages/Disadvantages: will get a once over before I move them to PDF format, some such as Prosthetics may be dropped due to the lack of any real reason to keep them other then "they are in AToW".
Background Packages: are going to be small 2-3 skill packages that you choose when creating your characters.
Affiliations: Are on the fence right now as I have some questions about how to implement them correctly in MW2.
Both ideas will include Language/Affiliation and Culture/Affiliation, but the rest of the package will be either;
1. A group of 3-4 skills, one Advantage, a one Disadvantage.
2. Just a group 4 skills.
I want them to be useful and important, but not to be the main source of skills.
And to finish this update off, I have decided to forgo posting rules/options piecemeal and post one/two finished guides after they are all done.
These will include an advanced players option guide and an equipment guide
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due to a error this update was lost.
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Awesome, after you've completed this MW2nd Edition Update we could go through character design right here if you like. I'd be happy to participate! ;)
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Update #4 (To much time on my hands)
Weapons: Complete
Equipment: About 10% done (Power Packs only at this time). his will take the shortest time of the conversions due to equipment have few stats.
Armor: After review, it needs more work.
Advantages/Disadvantages: Complete, Prosthetics are now their own set of optional rules.
Background Packages: Complete.
Affiliations: Next in line for work.
Era specific Priority tables: Complete and includes Master table for characters ad vehicles for (2400-2570 (Age of War), 2700-2770 (Star League), 2860-2900 (Golden Century), 3025-3052 (Succession Wars/Clan Invasion), 3053-3062 (Pre-Jihad))
Schools: Finally back on the list. I removed it earlier due to its reliance on other optional rules. (Affiliation, Background, Advantages/Disadvantages) At the time I was not sure if these other rules would work and it was only after figuring them out that I was able to lockdown a path for the schools. These will be the Final part of the new rules to be worked on and as I have decided to work from scratch, will provide some new and exciting options to character creation other then a advantage here or extra skill there.
Will also be adding a step by step run through of character creation using the optional rules.
that's about it, been a productive weekend.
Current Priority list
1. Armor
2. Equipment
3. Affiliations
4. Schools
Thanks for the support.
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This is pretty nice! I rather prefer the shorter ranges which are more in line with the heavy weapons from CBT, but I can understand people preferring the more realistic ranges of newer editions. Stuff that really needs extra rules are the person-scale combat, specifically BA and Small Support Vehicles. I'll keep using the ranges from the CBT infantry tables, they work out fine.
As for MW2-compatible rules, aren't Solaris: The Reaches (FASA 1659)'s rules compatible with MW2? The character and site archetypes and the NPC encounter generation are pretty nice.
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This is pretty nice! I rather prefer the shorter ranges which are more in line with the heavy weapons from CBT, but I can understand people preferring the more realistic ranges of newer editions. Stuff that really needs extra rules are the person-scale combat, specifically BA and Small Support Vehicles. I'll keep using the ranges from the CBT infantry tables, they work out fine.
As for MW2-compatible rules, aren't Solaris: The Reaches (FASA 1659)'s rules compatible with MW2? The character and site archetypes and the NPC encounter generation are pretty nice.
Welcome and Thank you.
As for Solaris: The Reaches (FASA 1659)'s rules, yes they are compatible, but are limited to NPC Encounter and adding advanced weapons (Clans/Starleague) to the Solaris dueling rules.
As I stated before, the purpose of this conversion is to fix or update the rules to better represent the Battletech Universe, so since there are IMHO pretty good rules for BA in the Mechwarrior companion I will not be tackling that here.
As for vehicles, That may be taking care of in the Optional Equipment book but I I'm not committing to that at this time. ::)
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Update #5 (Lots done more to do)
Weapons: Complete
Equipment: About 10% done (Power Packs only at this time). his will take the shortest time of the conversions due to equipment have few stats. Will be starting this tomorrow, expecting it to take a few hours of dedicated work.
Armor: Complete, Section will include Faction kits. Also added rules for Tactical Armor.
Advantages/Disadvantages: Complete, Prosthetics are now their own set of optional rules.
Background Packages: Complete.
Affiliations: Next in line for work.
Era specific Priority tables: Complete and includes Master table for characters ad vehicles for (2400-2570 (Age of War), 2700-2770 (Star League), 2860-2900 (Golden Century), 3025-3052 (Succession Wars/Clan Invasion), 3053-3062 (Pre-Jihad))
Schools: Finally back on the list. I removed it earlier due to its reliance on other optional rules. (Affiliation, Background, Advantages/Disadvantages) At the time I was not sure if these other rules would work and it was only after figuring them out that I was able to lockdown a path for the schools. These will be the Final part of the new rules to be worked on and as I have decided to work from scratch, will provide some new and exciting options to character creation other then a advantage here or extra skill there.
Will also be adding a step by step run through of character creation using the optional rules.
that's about it, been a productive weekend.
Current Priority list
1. Equipment
2. Affiliations
3. Schools
4. Updated Archetypes to match new character options
As always Thanks for the support.
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Update #5.5 (I'm going blind)
No real change in the completion list, but a change in plans.
After many long hours of reformatting info from excel to word and realizing I still have to put it in Publisher format then make the PDFs.
I have decided to put out what I have readily so far for publisher in its current word format.
I will still be working on the conversion when work and life allows (just to be clear no change here.) but this will take the pressure off me to get it all done right away allowing for more development and less rush to get it out.
It will also allow for feed back before I commit it to publisher.
So I will be removing the download links from the post above and adding links to the new update posts. all future updated files will be linked there with a ver. number that will match the one listed in the most current updates
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2700- 2770 ver. 1
Background Packages ver. 1
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 1
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
As always Thanks for the support.
Modify message
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Update 5.5.1 more files
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Update 5.5.2 even more files
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Update #6 (More free time)
Due to low volumes at work (Holidays are bad for us) Had a lot of time to work on this project. Finished the weapons conversions, so have powerpacks, rechargers, Weapons, and armor are done. All are already in publisher format with all related new rules and keywords. Just have to do a quick run through other equipment then I should have the Equipment guide done and up by Monday. All the files listed have stayed the same at this point so no new downloads yet. As for the Advanced character Options Guide, if I get wat I want done it should be up within the next two weeks.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2700- 2770 ver. 1
Background Packages ver. 1
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 1
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
As always Thanks for the support.
Happy holidays
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Update #6.5 (duty calls)
Just a quick update to status of the project.
Due to RL job issues (Got called in for the weekend) no progress was made.
I am not going to give a new date as it seems every time I do something happens.
As Always
Thanks for the support.
Happy holidays
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Update #7 (still progressing)
So, I made some time to work on this over the holidays
So far I have gotten all the weapons and power packs into Publisher formant, but am taking time to work on the schools and advanced players guide.
Should have some results just after the holidays.
As Always
Thanks for the support.
Happy holidays
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Keep up the good work. I finally found a copy of the Companion you mentioned. Will give it a look-over this week.
So, you think they handle BA on the personal scale pretty well? Time to find out.
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Just realized I never posted in this thread... by all means, keep up the good work sir! :thumbsup:
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Update #8 (still working)
Got a lot done over the holidays
Should have something new up sometime next week
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Update #8.1 (Late X-mas presents)
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3: Added all know Affiliations from the Age of war till the fall of the Starleague with founding dates.
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1: (New) enjoy.
Background Packages ver. 2: Added missing Backgrounds and some editing to fix leftover AToW skill/trait names.
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2: Modified table to reflect changes to Affiliations 2400- 2770 and some general housekeeping.
Just a reminder, this is a work in progress and just working on it take a lot of the time I set aside for it. So please if you find typos, Artifacts from AToW (Names, conversion notes, etc.) let me know so they can be corrected.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2700- 2770 ver. 3 (Updated) Note: Name Change (Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3)
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1 (New)
Background Packages ver. 2 (Updated)
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2 (Updated)
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
As Always
Thanks for the support.
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Update #8.2 (Stalled due to RW)
Sorry for the lack of progress, real world payed work has left me with little free time.
Thing are starting to normalize, and will be getting back to work on the conversions in the next few weeks.
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Finishing up work on military academy/universities. Then will get back to working on the equipment.
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Update #9 (not a lot of time)
Ok, here's the skinny. With work, home life, and other commitments I have been fighting to find time just for my important (to me) pastimes.
Unfortunately, since my group made the choice not to start a new Mechwarrior campaign and instead start a Wrath & Glory (Warhammer 40k) campaign I have been using said free-time for campaign construction and games. As such, I have not and will not have much time to work on this project.
Just to be clear I have not abandon it, I will just be spending far, far less time working on it.
That said most of the major work (minus the schools) is finished anyway.
As these are my last update for some time I will post my weapons (tonight) and Armor (within the next week) PDFs for all who want them.
The weapons are converted from Publisher format and may have some artifacts as I just converted and posted them.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1
Background Packages ver. 2
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2
Mechwarrior 2nd edition optional equipment rules ver. final (new)
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
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Tag for further updates
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Update #9.1
Here's the Armor and some other equipment.
Some of it was completed some are not.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1
Background Packages ver. 2
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2
Mechwarrior 2nd edition optional equipment rules ver. final
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
Weapon Conversion ver. 1
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I understand Real Life getting in the way of things.
I finally had a look at the MechWarrior 2 Companion that you recommended. It's both hit and miss for me. (Snort at the pun if you wish.)
For one, the damage conversion from what the book states is a little off. I'm generally okay with that. However, unless I'm missing something, which may require a more thorough read or reread of that book and the core rules, then the main 'life meter' takes damage regardless of where the damage lands. It's Reminiscent of Heavy Gear or the SilCore rules from DP9. The way the armor is stated to work, however, I find it hard to see how the arm segment isn't taking its own set of stats on a Battle Suit.
See, the SilCore system at least weakens the unit and sets it up to be OSKed more readily. BA in BT, however, are described to protect the wearer up to the point it can't. So, I think I see what's going on here, where some of the damage goes to the main body, and the rest goes to whatever happens to be hit. I'm of a mind it should be more all or nothing, with most of the damage going to the main body simply because the trooper is constantly in motion, due to the mobile aspect of armor protection.
I'll post more on this later. My time's up. Gotta go to work.
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Not sure if you are taking about small arms or mech scale for the damage.
If small arms you are correct, damage is split between the armor and the pilot based on the damage divisor (1/2,2/3, etc.).
If you are taking about Mech scale damage the armor takes the whole amount.
This is due to the spared-out nature of mech weapon damage and the the more pinpoint damage of small arms fire.
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I was looking at the small-arms aspect from the RPG.
My issue is the aspect of rolling a hit location, and then the whole suit taking the damage to the last point.
At least with HG, the more damage you take, the more likely you are to be One-shotted by a follow-up attack.
With MechWarrior, Even if you consider the damage to a non-body location to be splash damage, where the core of the body still takes damage from the attack, and the other portion is applied to the hit location, there's still the oddity of rolling the same place more than once.
Considering what they state the BA weapons are supposed to be in the companion, which I am totally fine with, I don't see a lot of Mech weapons being area-effect blast weapons, aside from the shear power being put into the attack. A laser beam isn't more than a centimeter or two in width. AC rounds might be wide, depending on make and model. And, then there's the thing to be said for accuracy, especially if BT is supposed to be a super-futuristic science fiction setting.
[Framework explanation]
I've made many statements in the past (which have probably been long since buried in the threads with time...) that I look at BT hits and misses in the same way Gygax described an attack for DnD. A miss isn't a failure to contact with your target. It's a failure to hit a part that registers as damage in game terms. And, my amplified interpretation of Mech combat instills some extra mobility. (Immobile targets impart a -4 target bonus and you can attack specific locations.) This applies to all combat units, including infantry. Note: You cannot construct naked bystander Infantry units.
It's much more extensive than that basic statement, incorporating predictive computer interaction with the motion of the unit, both offensively and defensively, but that should suffice.
[/framework]
With the framework in mind, I've always viewed the BA HP to actually be the core body, where the suit isn't as mobile. The armor uses motion to turn hits into 'misses', or no damage. BA Limbs can be constantly in motion, thus take no damage. But, the body isn't in the same kind of unpredictable motion as the limbs. This is why we don't see accuracy or motive damage when BA take hits, even from infantry.
But, that doesn't mean those locations shouldn't be taking damage.
I personally would have BA statted with individual location armor values when dealing with indiscriminate fire, like form infantry MG bursts, explosive blasts from grenades and rockets, and so-on for the RPG level.
So, I suppose, it would be cool to see the Mech sheet system done with people, especially BA, but with stats amplified for the smaller scale.
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That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.
From my perspective, the tabletop game is the center of the universe. Everything (in either direction) is a generalization from one direction or the other. BA shouldn't have "hit locations" any more than unarmored (by which I mean, not power armored) infantry at TW scale.
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This issues has always been a sticking point for me in Battletech/Mechwarrior and other games that use hit locations.
The fact of the matter is, most if not all range weapon training focus on hitting the target's center of mass.
Looking for the firer to hit center of mass 80%+ of the time.
The idea of targeting head/arms/legs is never broth up in training because it reduced the chance of hitting the target.
Soldiers like sniper tend to be naturally talented marksman from the start and are trained to increase this precession, they are not trained from a soldier that can't hit the broadside of a barn to master marksmen.
This extends to every aspect of shooting, so the idea that somehow a trained rifleman is going to aim for center of mass and somehow shoot the target in the toe is just funny.
Rifles/mech guns/etc. would have to be pretty inaccurate for the tables to make sense. As the Mech is for the most part just a larger humanoid profile with the guns scaling up at about the same scale, the center torso would receive the highest number of impacts (around 80%) with only slight variations in impact locations mainly hitting the facing arm or rarely the head. Hitting the legs would be a one in 100 chances as the variation from the aiming point would be astronomical unless the weapon/targeting system was in major need of realignment.
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Well, the facing torsos are placed at 7 on the location table... granted, that's only around 15%. Heck, taking it down to d2s only gets the middle result up to 50%. 80% is a pretty steep bell curve...
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That to me is the failure of the charts and the hit locations in the first place. It adds extra rolls and stats that could be handled as "you hit the Torso unless you aim somewhere else.
Like Rifts where you always hit main body but, it gives hit points for other areas for you to aim at.
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victor_shaw, are you going to compile this into a doc of some kind? It will easier to comb through it once it done like that.
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That approach would require a complete revamp of armor, weapons or both. Not even an Atlas could withstand everything hitting the torso all the time.
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victor_shaw, are you going to compile this into a doc of some kind? It will easier to comb through it once it done like that.
?, Are you talking about the conversions above or the discussion Daryk an I are having?
As for the conversions, I was planning on creating a book in Pubilsher (about 1/4 done) then converting it into a PDF but due to me putting the whole thing on the backburner due to other obligations and my game group switching to another game I have made little or no progress with the conversion in over 3 months.
Also, Some of the data in the files are either not converted or in to raw of a state for to push out as anything other then "here are some charts convert it yourself" which I am uncomfortable doing. If I find a large amount of time or my other game goes on break I may revisit this in the future, but as it stands I am currently not doing any work on this project.
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[Nomenclature note - I'll be calling the basic Mech Combat Game of BattleTech, what most people refer to as Total Warfare, as Core BattleTech.]
That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.
From my perspective, the tabletop game is the center of the universe. Everything (in either direction) is a generalization from one direction or the other. BA shouldn't have "hit locations" any more than unarmored (by which I mean, not power armored) infantry at TW scale.
Uh, we're discussing RPG level, not TW level. And, RPG level can blend into a BattleTroops level game. Honestly, aside from some well-equipped, well-trained, frontline troops, which are few in number. Most infantry shouldn't be on a TW field, beyond as components for something else, like bunkers, towed guns, specialist passengers in APCs which can be used to plant explosives on an objective, clear out a building, take over a control tower or weapons turret, etc.
In a land of high-powered lasers that can melt armor, and missiles the size of three-liter bottles exploding with shrapnel and force comparable to modern AtG missiles, exposed skin, as depicted on the stock trooper out of a house book, can't expect to survive even stray shots on that pass close. Remember some of the novels dealing with folks carrying laser pistols? Those folks operate at a different level. Nowhere near where Core BattleTech operates or depicts.
In fact, in our games, we rarely use stock infantry beyond what I listed above. I have a friend who refuses to run them, preferring tanks and Mechs. I'm the one that has to include the infantry objective pieces and the occasional air strike.
And, again, I want the hit locations mapped on infantry mostly for indiscriminate fire, like Artillery, LB-X fire, and the like.
[random idea] If I were to do anything to allow for stray shots or poor shot-groupings, it would be over range. Range bands would have a different hit chart applied at each one for burst fire. For example, Short range is main body. Medium range would be punch hit, or something like it. Long and extreme would be full-body chart as depicted in Core BattleTech. Single shot weapons might get to ignore this, especially beam weaponry, getting the typical range mod, instead.
I've been playing around with this for a Macross Mod for BT. BT is on a whole different level than anything modern, in my imagination. So, when shots should be grouping well, especially with computer assist, which on an Abrams makes for a hit with maybe a single percent failure to strike, it is hard to justify random location hits. With the exception of, say, arm interference, which can't be predicted. A Valk carrying a rifle like a man who is shot in the chest could easily take the hit on the weapon or arm(s) carrying it.
But, if you look at the RoboTech RPG rules and stats, even they have the damage going to the core body. However, I look at the missiles, which have an AoE, I realize that that blast will be damaging more than just the core body. You could lose sensors, damage a limb, and so-on. And, if I were to GM, I'd be enforcing that.
That logic goes back to the 2nd ed and other RPGs. The Core BattleTech rules for BA reflect center-of-mass targeting for particularly accurate weapons particularly well, barring the super armor and application of mobility to inflict high attack-failure rates. Then, to have the damaged reduced in the RPG and apply it to randomized locations? The full damage of a single Core Rules point of damage converted is, just off memory, 5d6+5? (I remember it maxing out between 35 and 40. Someone feel free to correct me.) Even if we average it to 20, if you take the full HP of the suit as given in the companion and divide it by the Core Rules stats, you get between 12 and 13(?), which doesn't work out. Which means some of that damage is 'splashing', by those standards.
I strongly don't agree with that.
[Another Random Idea]
Now, if people want splash effects and potential BA crits, we could look at the MaxTech 'Glancing Shot' rules for Direct fire weapons. It logically makes sense. Apply that to a crit chance table like a Mech, and in the RPG, roll which location takes the rest of the damage, or use an Alpha Strike crit table for Core Level play.
I actually like the idea of a little more complexity in my infantry, and BA taking crits makes sense. But, I also want to be able to target individual suits with individual weapons, instead of firing at the group as a unit. And, I also feel that Rolling for each individual suit's ranged attack, instead of on the cluster table isn't a bad idea, either, even though that would mean randomizing each trooper's skills. Our group plays with randomized skills already.
So, yeah. I would prefer the RPG to reflect the Core BT rules in some respects, especially when it comes to Armored Combat Units. That means the HP of a Power Suit applying solely to the core body, and matching the point values as they would be converted, at least being average, if not max.
The idea of the extra detail would be simply to have it available for the odd circumstances where it might come into play, which is where the RPG is supposed to shine. And, it would be on the back-end of unit design.
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The RoboTech RPG was from Palladium, right? What little I remember of that system wasn't very compatible with a 2d6 bell curve, which is the "norm" of BattleTech.
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D20. Oddly enough, though, the absolute miss value would match 3 or less on 2d6, which I found amusing. The other incompatibility was, I believe, a 14 second turn duration. And, inside that turn, depending on level, a character could crack off an attack every two seconds.
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D20 is also a flat percentage system, though with larger 'steps'. Neither melds with a bell curve well.
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That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.
Yeah. I think I'm one of a rare few. Hard to say, though.
Although, the discussion on how to handle things like infantry on the Table Top I've discussed in other threads. For instance, if you're really going to trivialize infantry, why stop at body tracking? Why not go one step further to 'squad eliminated/not eliminated'?
edit:
D20 is also a flat percentage system, though with larger 'steps'. Neither melds with a bell curve well.
2d6 isn't as much of a curve as you think. It's more of a pyramid, which makes it easier to convert d20 into. It's when you get to 3dx, 4dx, and beyond that the bell starts to happen.
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The RoboTech RPG was from Palladium, right? What little I remember of that system wasn't very compatible with a 2d6 bell curve, which is the "norm" of BattleTech.
I was not saying that they should not keep the same to hit system that is currently used.
But as Daemion stated it's not so much a bell curve as a pyramid.
The truth is 2d6 is not and has never been a good way to resolve actions. It's way to narrow of a range and spikes way to high in the center.
3d6 would be far superior in both range and has the smoother bell curve you are talking about.
As for my comment, I was talking more on the subject of damaging the target not hitting the target.
The main issues with AGoAC and in the same vain AToW is the complexity for complexity sake design philosophy they tend to follow.
Their is a reason that after all these years that MW2 still ranks 2nd almost and tied for 1st in the poll I ran for what versions of the RPG everyone plays.
It's simple where it needs to be and rules heavy but streamlined where it needs to be.
Battletech is a product of its time when wargamers wanted detailed hit charts and damage resolution.
That era has passed.
If you asked almost anyone who bought into the KS why they did so I can assure you that most would say for the cheap minis and other addons and not the game rules.
As for the d20 system from Palladium, that system is based on the individuals modifiers more then anything else and depends on the targets ability to dodge over coming up with modifiers to make the attacker miss.
As was stated the base to hit number is set at 3 as it is assumed that most weapons attacks are computer aided or self-guided, so it's the targets responsibility to get out of the way or dodge the attack.
I see it as no matter how you put it Battlemechs are large targets that are definitely slower than every type of attack directed at them (Laser-speed of light, Gauss rifles'-speed of sound, missiles-self guided and tracking) so they are not going to be as hard to hit as the game makes it out to be.
And even more unrealistic is the fact that range or the speed of the mechs plays any part in the to hit numbers at all.
Gauss Rifle (Railgun)- Shell moving at about Mach 6, or 5,400 miles an hour with a true effective range of about 126 miles on land or about 6,759 battletech hexes.
Pules Lasers (Laser) There was a recent experiment in which a laser pulse travels at more than 300 times the speed of light or 90,000,000 km/sec or in BT terms 30,000,000,000 hexes in one second.
Base Lasers (Laser) have a speed of 300,000 km/sec or in BT terms 100,000,000 hexes in one second.
Missiles (Anti-Tank) have a speed of 278–320 m/s or around 9 to 10 hexes per second with ranges around 3,750 m or around 125 hexes.
PPC (particle beam weapon) This one hits a road block as particle beam weapon don't currently work in any type of atmosphere, but do reach the speed of light (299,792,458 m/s) in vacuum.
Autocannons (Bushmaster M242) speed of shell 1,100 meters per second or 367 hexes in a battletech turn with an effective kill range of 3,000 metres or 1,000 hexes
And these are just the current modern day equivalents of the battletech weapons and targeting systems.
so I can't see a 8 to 14 meters tall robot moving at speeds (Fastest moving 134 mph) well below what these weapons can hit ever getting out of the way.
So that is why I prescribe to the idea that the to hit numbers are mostly irrelevant and it show all come down to damage capacity only.
Movement modifiers to me are only something that would matter to something as fast as a light mech, and these would be low.
Again AGoAC is a product of its time and to me needs to be seriously overhauled or just left to die.
That said, I like the BTU and some of the RPG options that it has but they will never truly be worked on outside of fan works.
And since I don't have the time or need to do the work myself I am pretty much done with battletech in all its incarnations.
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I'm pretty sure someone misread something to yield an experimental result that exceeded the speed of light in a vacuum.
I think the weapon speed has much less to do with hitting than the ability to obtain and maintain a targeting lock. That's where all the "routine" ECM and such is assumed away.
I also think as long as games like 40K are out there to satisfy the "one and done" crowd, BattleTech will happily fill the niche for those of us who like a little more detail. BT players who want a little less of that play Alpha Strike.
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But as Daemion stated it's not so much a bell curve as a pyramid.
The truth is 2d6 is not and has never been a good way to resolve actions. It's way to narrow of a range and spikes way to high in the center.
3d6 would be far superior in both range and has the smoother bell curve you are talking about.
How about 4d6/2, FRU? A little extra math, but it has more rolls occurring between 6 and 9 than the existing 2d6 chart. The FRU part means you are more likely to hit, but it does follow another gaming rule I read - round in favor of blowing stuff up.
Here is what an average table of those 1296 rolls would look like, vs taking the 2d6 count and multiplying that by 36 (36*36 = 1296):
| Roll | 2d6 | 2d6*12 | 4d6/2, FRU |
| 2 | 1 | 36 | 1 |
| 3 | 2 | 72 | 14 |
| 4 | 3 | 108 | 55 |
| 5 | 4 | 144 | 136 |
| 6 | 5 | 180 | 229 |
| 7 | 6 | 216 | 286 |
| 8 | 5 | 180 | 265 |
| 9 | 4 | 144 | 184 |
| 10 | 3 | 108 | 91 |
| 11 | 2 | 72 | 30 |
| 12 | 1 | 36 | 5 |
This sort of roll will make it nicer on Ultra and RAC autocannons, as their jams will occur far less often.
Ultra AC go from 3% of the time (1 in 36) to 1 in 1296 (~.1%)
RAC firing at 6 rounds/turn go from a 16.7% chance of a jam, to 5.4% chance of a jam.
For to-hit locations the person rolling would have to decide f they want to round up or down before making their 4d6 roll. It would be very annoying if they rolled 1,1,1,2, and had said they were rounding up, and just as annoying if they rolled 6,6,6,5 and had said they were rounding down.
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Uh, we're discussing RPG level, not TW level. And, RPG level can blend into a BattleTroops level game. Honestly, aside from some well-equipped, well-trained, frontline troops, which are few in number. Most infantry shouldn't be on a TW field, beyond as components for something else, like bunkers, towed guns, specialist passengers in APCs which can be used to plant explosives on an objective, clear out a building, take over a control tower or weapons turret, etc.
In a land of high-powered lasers that can melt armor, and missiles the size of three-liter bottles exploding with shrapnel and force comparable to modern AtG missiles, exposed skin, as depicted on the stock trooper out of a house book, can't expect to survive even stray shots on that pass close. Remember some of the novels dealing with folks carrying laser pistols? Those folks operate at a different level. Nowhere near where Core BattleTech operates or depicts.
In fact, in our games, we rarely use stock infantry beyond what I listed above. I have a friend who refuses to run them, preferring tanks and Mechs. I'm the one that has to include the infantry objective pieces and the occasional air strike.
Well our old group we used to have infantry on the field but we often did campaigns not single games. I until banned because I was too evil, now I just look like a nice guy compared to the nasty evil of truetanker, I used to use a Scout/Sniper unit using just weapons from old 3026TRO. If I used them now I would go with Daryk recreation of them for the modern S/S squads
Now, modified Barton AMRs with AP ammo:
(3 x AR++ = 3 * 1.01 = 3.03) + (2 x Barton AMR Sniper Rifles with extended magazines (triple cost) = 2 * 0.74 = 1.48) = 4.51 rounds to 5 damage per squad at 7/14/21 range and no mobility penalty, but a +1 to hit at 0 hex range (the Bartons are Encumbering).
all wearing Camo/IR sneaksuits were fortunately the example in AToW (page 298):
Note: All modifiers are cumulative, but only apply to an infantry unit if all the unit’s members are using the same stealth gear type. (For example, infantry wearing Combination IR/Camo gear (E/I/C: 0/6/4) gets no benefit for ECM, applies attack roll modifiers of –1/–1/–2/–3 for Short/Medium/Long/Extreme ranges respectively, and additional attack roll modifiers of –2/–1/+0/+0/+0 if the stealthed unit moves 0/1/2/3/4 MP per turn. The unit cannot hide from probes, but a stationary unit wearing such combo stealth gear would apply a –3 attack roll modifier at short range [–1 for Short Range –2 for stationary].)
Now what I used my forces was to annoy forces or once capture a Rearming/Reammo site, by killing mechjock out of their units in a "safe zone"
I also once ran the urban militia "read gangbangers and mix of weekend warriors and a few professional military guys and units" who really didn't do much in the battle between the "raider mech forces" and defending mechs, we might have shot at bothsides lack of pros and suddenly seeing a Mech means shoot. However at the end game the was a raider mech who ejected, that my force captured, he landed between 3 "gangbanger inf forces" and was wise and surrendered to me.
But yes in normal open field I'm not sure PBI needs to be on battlefield unless they have special role to play
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Thanks for the shout out DOC_Agren! Both the AR++ and Barton he describes are available in my sig-block (it's an index of my various threads). :thumbsup:
Also, the "Urban Guerilla" SPA from the AToW Companion (page 71) was MADE for you! >:D
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Thanks for the shout out DOC_Agren! Both the AR++ and Barton he describes are available in my sig-block (it's an index of my various threads). :thumbsup:
Also, the "Urban Guerilla" SPA from the AToW Companion (page 71) was MADE for you! >:D
Yes it could be. 8)
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Again AGoAC is a product of its time and to me needs to be seriously overhauled or just left to die.
That said, I like the BTU and some of the RPG options that it has but they will never truly be worked on outside of fan works.
And since I don't have the time or need to do the work myself I am pretty much done with battletech in all its incarnations.
That's too bad to hear. But, sometimes, tastes change.
I actually like my head-cannon behind the armor pretty much being the key to the high 'miss' (or, rather, failure) rates as presented in the game. Super armor was a thing for some Mecha, including the lauded Gundam prototype. And, since BT really derives from that genre in a lot of ways, it makes sense that super armor would be the one bit of fantasy to still allow for the setting to work. Throw in advanced programming and sensors taking advantage of the material's damage capacities, and you get shots rendered ineffective from computed, defensive motions.
It's one of the reasons I actually went back to the BMR for vehicle rules. Oblique shots shouldn't be causing damage, since, in my mind, that's what it takes to get a 'miss'.
Anyhow, thanks for what work you've done. If I want to use this for the basis of a MW2 style BattleTroops, it shouldn't be too hard to convert damage values.
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How about 4d6/2, FRU? A little extra math, but it has more rolls occurring between 6 and 9 than the existing 2d6 chart. The FRU part means you are more likely to hit, but it does follow another gaming rule I read - round in favor of blowing stuff up.
...
This sort of roll will make it nicer on Ultra and RAC autocannons, as their jams will occur far less often.
Ultra AC go from 3% of the time (1 in 36) to 1 in 1296 (~.01%)
RAC firing at 6 rounds/turn go from a 16.7% chance of a jam, to 5.4% chance of a jam.
For to-hit locations the person rolling would have to decide f they want to round up or down before making their 4d6 roll. It would be very annoying if they rolled 1,1,1,2, and had said they were rounding up, and just as annoying if they rolled 6,6,6,5 and had said they were rounding down.
This might be interesting to try out.
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That's too bad to hear. But, sometimes, tastes change.
I actually like my head-cannon behind the armor pretty much being the key to the high 'miss' (or, rather, failure) rates as presented in the game. Super armor was a thing for some Mecha, including the lauded Gundam prototype. And, since BT really derives from that genre in a lot of ways, it makes sense that super armor would be the one bit of fantasy to still allow for the setting to work. Throw in advanced programming and sensors taking advantage of the material's damage capacities, and you get shots rendered ineffective from computed, defensive motions.
It's one of the reasons I actually went back to the BMR for vehicle rules. Oblique shots shouldn't be causing damage, since, in my mind, that's what it takes to get a 'miss'.
Anyhow, thanks for what work you've done. If I want to use this for the basis of a MW2 style BattleTroops, it shouldn't be too hard to convert damage values.
Thank you, I tried to come up with the most in universe answers to the missing elements of MW2 as it was lefts incomplete by the sudden mid-run switch over to 3rd.
As I am still a fan of the universe itself, I will more then likely come back to this conversion at some point in the future, but as it stands between work and my current game (Mystara 5th edition game) I have little time to setup for and run my own game let alone work on an RPG that I am not and will not be running anytime soon.
So Mechwarrior 2.5 has falling into the same category as my Shatterzone GURPS conversion as a game I would like to finish (I tend to be a completionist) But just can't find the time or immediate need to work on.
As for the Battlearmor issue, If you want to use it AToW has rules for BA hit locations that could easily be ported over to MW2 sa the latter has far more of a hitpoint system then the former.
To an earlier question, no their are no plans (at this point) to work all the current files into a single document, as they are all in different formats do to the prosses I was using to do the conversion (Excel>Word>PDF>Publisher>Back to PDF). The Idea was to get it all into Publisher format then create one or two fully fleshed out PDF books. As this was the case most of the completed work is still stuck in pre edited publisher format and would have to be edited and reformatted to be converted to PDF form.
Add to this that if and when I return to the project I would have to go through it all again when I finish and it seems to me like double work within my limited time for incomplete data. That was also the reason I stopped posting the conversion directly to the forums as I was spending a great deal of time (I didn't have) reformatting the info to show up correctly on the thread.
All that said, thanks for the support and knowing that their are others that are interested in my pet project is the only reason that I have not abandon it out right to this point. As a side note my work does have slow seasons and I may be getting more free-time in 3-4 months so I may reevaluating my time and see if I can get back to work on this, but just to be clear this project (do to lack of interest from my gaming group) is super low priority so even if I do get back to it, it might not be finished before work picks back up again.
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Well if you come back to this know there are some of us out there still interested
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A another suggestion is use Shadow Run SR5 rules for the Battle armor stuff. I've been games where it was adapted along with Battle Mechs, seem work in the GM's home brew adaption. The Battle Armor in it's own form is used in SR. I'm not experienced SR6, but i'm not sure how it's handled.
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By request here is a reupload of the weapons and equipment PDF.
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Ok, it has been awhile but as I stated I have not abandon this conversion.
As my gaming group has collapsed due to my players work schedules and my work has for now stabilized I will be starting to work on this conversion again. (I hate to leave things unfinished)
As a warning, It has been A long time since I worked on this so it will take me time to get it all in order. I will also have to dig-up or redo most of my conversion documents as a lot of them where never put to computer storage and are in notebooks scattered in through out my room. Bear with me as I get back up to speed.
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I know exactly what you're going through... best of luck! :thumbsup:
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I know exactly what you're going through... best of luck! :thumbsup:
Still around old friend. ;)
Yeah this is going to be a headache, but I can't leave MW2 in the state FASA left it if I can do anything about it.
Plus, the time away has allowed me to look at the game with fresh eyes and see some issues I missed or ignored before (INT issues) and ways to fix them.
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Bye the way, who do I talk to about get my rank show in Wolf Clan insignias ;)
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That's a question I don't know the answer to... I asked about possible Naval alternatives years ago, and never got a response...
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Those of us who still like MW2 will wait
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Those of us who still like MW2 will wait
Here, here!
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Update #10
Wow its been a long time since I posted one of these.
Today I have the Beta edition of the Schools. Before it gets asked, I will not be updating/changing the official schools in the FMs.
Please provide feedback on these so I can edit them and move on. Also, if anyone has found issues or errors in the previous work let me know.
This Update also has a question attached.
I am currently looking to fix the Int issues in the game. I have an 2 ideas that could work separately or combined.
1. INT is limited (during character creation) to 1 higher then the average of the next to attributes (rounded up)
2. Raising an Attribute to max level (before Racial Modifiers) requires expenditure of double the attribute points. (Ex. A level 6 attribute for a human cost 4 points for Intuition and 2 points for all other Attributes, where Level 6 Reflexes cost only 5 points for the Clan Mechwarrior Racial Class, but level 7 cost 7 points.)
Let me know what you think.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1
Background Packages ver. 2
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2
Mechwarrior 2nd edition optional equipment rules ver. final
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
Weapon Conversion ver. 1
Schools ver. 1
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I don't think either of those methods diminishes the imperative to max INT at character creation. If anything, the second one INCREASES the pressure to do that. As for the first one, since any MechWarrior is going to want a 6 in REF too, they only need a 4 in something else (probably LRN) to get to the 5 necessary to put a 6 in INT. Not really a limit as I see it...
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One of the reasons I like MW2 Edition is the ease of character creation and the 'hero level abilities' of said characters. I don't hate the high Intuitions everyone starts with but rather the same way everyone makes the characters. Rather than punish the INT at creation could would somehow generate a random factor that would make unique characters at the start?
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The very things that make creation so easy in MW2 are exactly what drive everyone to the same cookie cutter solutions. Attributes are so expensive to raise compared to skills (even without Victor Shaw's proposed #2 above), it only makes sense to max them right out of the gate.
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I don't think either of those methods diminishes the imperative to max INT at character creation. If anything, the second one INCREASES the pressure to do that. As for the first one, since any MechWarrior is going to want a 6 in REF too, they only need a 4 in something else (probably LRN) to get to the 5 necessary to put a 6 in INT. Not really a limit as I see it...
Just to be clear, neither of these are meant to keep people from doing it all together. They are just meant to put the brakes on it and have the player think it through before they do. As with both in place it becomes kind of expansive and limited other options. The other option was to make it average of other two rounded down, but that seemed to restrictive. But as its an optional rule I could put that in as a third option.
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Another option would be to change the formula for the 3 characteristic that use INT to (20-INT+###).
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You mean 20-(INT+XXX), right? ???
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You mean 20-(INT+XXX), right? ???
just miss typed
Anyway this was just a question to see what people preferred if any.
What I really want to know is if the House schools look good so I can move on in the update.
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Before the question comes up, Basic Training (Naval) was in my earlier draft of the MOS-FOS list but was found to be repetitive with most space related MOS/FOS packages, so please just ignore it. I will remove it in later versions of the document.
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I don't think either of those methods diminishes the imperative to max INT at character creation. If anything, the second one INCREASES the pressure to do that. As for the first one, since any MechWarrior is going to want a 6 in REF too, they only need a 4 in something else (probably LRN) to get to the 5 necessary to put a 6 in INT. Not really a limit as I see it...
:thumbsup:
and did I miss the TC military school?
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:thumbsup:
and did I miss the TC military school?
If you are referring to the Taurian École Militaire.
I will be up font on this one. I have found little information on this academy, and everything I have found does little to showcase it as anymore then your run of the mill academy with a slightly bad reputation.
If you can point me to (official) information that gives an idea of what it offers more then the base academy package I would be happy to add it to the list.
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Heh... they probably have a mandatory course on nuclear weapons employment... 8)
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New second draft of the Federated Suns School
Changes
1. Added Founding Years to the schools and programs, for programs (Armored Infantry) where dates are not available please see GM.
2. Reworked the Entry requirements and bonuses to better reflect the Fluff.
3. Cleaned up the artifacts from previous drafts and the conversion
Will add other House schools as the are finished
Sorry please redownload as I noted a error in the modifiers for entry requirements or change -2 to +2 in NAIS and Armstrong Flight Academy
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Heh... they probably have a mandatory course on nuclear weapons employment... 8)
Employment or Deployment :-\
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Or both! :D
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If you are referring to the Taurian École Militaire.
I will be up font on this one. I have found little information on this academy, and everything I have found does little to showcase it as anymore then your run of the mill academy with a slightly bad reputation.
If you can point me to (official) information that gives an idea of what it offers more then the base academy package I would be happy to add it to the list.
The best I would say is that should be university/advanced programs, as most worlds also have basic military academy on them.
I would have to go though my books, but then you run into the issue of older info being replaced by newer.
Heh... they probably have a mandatory course on nuclear weapons employment... 8)
And they might have the courses on , but I'm sure Taurian Naval Institute has them, and should also have a great training course for Marines.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School, on the other hand is
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I would have to go though my books, but then you run into the issue of older info being replaced by newer.
And they might have the courses on , but I'm sure Taurian Naval Institute has them, and should also have a great training course for Marines.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School, on the other hand is
This is where the Taurian school have an issues.
It comes off as École Militaire is one of the better ground combat Universities in the periphery, but has a reputation for thinking they are the best in the Innersphere. And the Taurian Naval Institute is more of a branch of the Columbia Academy then its own thing due to most of the professors being from The Outworlds Alliance.
So overall, they really don't have their own unique fell to them.
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Update #11 (Moving right along)
Today I have the Schools ver 2. I also have the first draft of the armor section in the format it will appear in the book.
ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1
2nd edition armor ver.1
Background Packages ver. 2
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2
Mechwarrior 2nd edition optional equipment rules ver. final
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
Weapon Conversion ver. 1
Schools ver. 2
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but then honestly a # of the Academies really have that issue.
What makes Filtvelt Military Academy standout?
or St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences?
or Canopian Institute of War?
CIW was designed in 3058 as clone of the Sun Zhang MechWarrior Academy, odd I would have thought a CC Academy. That it took in 1st only prior service members recomennded by a Col or better, and unlike MAF officer ranks you can not buy your way in, and top 1% of local training school and outsiders. It was to give the MoC an advanced finishing school for MechWarrior or Aerospace Fighter pilots. Prior to that, MoC had to depend on various local training done by member worlds and "on the job" work.
Earlier works used to refer to the Taurian École Militaire, as 1 of the best military schools, of course that was before the TC had to take "stupid pills" but I digress..
I would propose
Bonus skills to teach why the TC stood and fought.
Taurian École Militaire (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Advanced University
Bonus: SI /Star League History (1), SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training,
MOS: Battlemech, Cavalry, Infantry, Specialist (Mechanic), Specialist (Recon), Specialist (Tech), Armored Infantry (3058)
FOS: Leadership, Military Science
Now there maybe a hidden "knowledge base" for warship operation that they concealed from the OG Star League like ooohh the TCW Vandenberg. Given that they fought the OG SL the best the could in space, with lesser ships. But not public knowledge.
Taurian Naval Institute (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Basic or Advanced Academy (but yes we will train you in Jumpship Operations FOS)
Bonus: SI /Star League History (1), SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training (Naval), Dropship, Marine, Specialist (Spacecraft Tech)
FOS: Jumpship
Okay here where I have to wonder, because even the fluff it says that the TC, a nation that fought in space as their frontline, can't find enough talented candidates for pilots. Did the OG SL do/release something something to target their ability. 40% of the school is from away. And as such, it is the poor school.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Basic Academy
Bonus: +1 skill levels in SI/Military History
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training
MOS: Aerospace, Specialist (Aero Tech)
and then as Daryk said I am pretty sure Taurian Naval Institute (at least via the hidden knowledge section) and Taurian École Militaire cover the operational use of Nuclear Weapons in more details prior to "Warships" returning to the Inner Sphere that most any other school.
And I know Daryk can speak better to this but any officer, going for above a Battalion command should be sent though a "Staff College" not that CBT military seem to have remember that.
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but then honestly a # of the Academies really have that issue.
What makes Filtvelt Military Academy standout?
or St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences?
or Canopian Institute of War?
CIW was designed in 3058 as clone of the Sun Zhang MechWarrior Academy, odd I would have thought a CC Academy. That it took in 1st only prior service members recomennded by a Col or better, and unlike MAF officer ranks you can not buy your way in, and top 1% of local training school and outsiders. It was to give the MoC an advanced finishing school for MechWarrior or Aerospace Fighter pilots. Prior to that, MoC had to depend on various local training done by member worlds and "on the job" work.
Earlier works used to refer to the Taurian École Militaire, as 1 of the best military schools, of course that was before the TC had to take "stupid pills" but I digress..
I would propose
Bonus skills to teach why the TC stood and fought.
Taurian École Militaire (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Advanced University
Bonus: SI /Star League History (1), SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training,
MOS: Battlemech, Cavalry, Infantry, Specialist (Mechanic), Specialist (Recon), Specialist (Tech), Armored Infantry (3058)
FOS: Leadership, Military Science
Now there maybe a hidden "knowledge base" for warship operation that they concealed from the OG Star League like ooohh the TCW Vandenberg. Given that they fought the OG SL the best the could in space, with lesser ships. But not public knowledge.
Taurian Naval Institute (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Basic or Advanced Academy (but yes we will train you in Jumpship Operations FOS)
Bonus: SI /Star League History (1), SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training (Naval), Dropship, Marine, Specialist (Spacecraft Tech)
FOS: Jumpship
Okay here where I have to wonder, because even the fluff it says that the TC, a nation that fought in space as their frontline, can't find enough talented candidates for pilots. Did the OG SL do/release something something to target their ability. 40% of the school is from away. And as such, it is the poor school.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Basic Academy
Bonus: +1 skill levels in SI/Military History
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training
MOS: Aerospace, Specialist (Aero Tech)
and then as Daryk said I am pretty sure Taurian Naval Institute (at least via the hidden knowledge section) and Taurian École Militaire cover the operational use of Nuclear Weapons in more details prior to "Warships" returning to the Inner Sphere that most any other school.
And I know Daryk can speak better to this but any officer, going for above a Battalion command should be sent though a "Staff College" not that CBT military seem to have remember that.
Truthfully, they have already existing schools in MW 3 is the only real reason. ;)
As for your schools, I think they need some work:
1. No requirements for all of them is a little hard to swallow.
2. The Taurian Naval Institute would need to have at least Basic University package to cover Jumpship FOS
3.Concordat Aerospace Flight School seems to be almost pointless.
I can take a look and see what I come up with, or if your happy with what you got I would just run with it.
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To get a little more in-depth
Filtvelt Military Academy goes hand and hand with the outback Sub-affiliation allowing the PC to get rid of their Poverty disadvantage.
St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences gives the PC a chance to mix in some civilian fields to diversify the group.
Canopian Institute of War is a easier to get into less powerful version of the Sun Zhang MechWarrior Academy.
Each has something to offer to the PC besides just a skill or two.
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2nd edition is MUCH harder to shoe horn a staff college into, but thanks for the mention DOC! :thumbsup:
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?? Myomer Armor, is that something I missed that in CBT already
and yes there should have been requirements, but I was trying to do while I was at work, and thought I had included them. I will be honest but St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences has none.
and yes Concordat Aerospace Flight School (Taurian Concordat), from all that I can find written on it until they get full OA aid assistance and basicly becomes the satelite campus of their, it is basicly cheap fight school.
I included the Jumpship program even though it should require a Uni program, as odd quirk of the Star League breaking the TC's space assets.
edit in and I'm not trying to give you a hardtime, some of it had to go back and look at, because 1'm on a new computer without all your older documents. I missed the Sub-affiliation document.
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Perhaps I can argue a portion of Taurian spacers left with the Logans to form the Lothian League... hmmm... ^-^
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Perhaps I can argue a portion of Taurian spacers left with the Logans to form the Lothian League... hmmm... ^-^
I could buy that.. ;D at the idea they have the "Hidden Warship Knowledge" with them, and even funnier if they don't know they have the only copies anymore.
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?? Myomer Armor, is that something I missed that in CBT already
and yes there should have been requirements, but I was trying to do while I was at work, and thought I had included them. I will be honest but St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences has none.
and yes Concordat Aerospace Flight School (Taurian Concordat), from all that I can find written on it until they get full OA aid assistance and basicly becomes the satelite campus of their, it is basicly cheap fight school.
I included the Jumpship program even though it should require a Uni program, as odd quirk of the Star League breaking the TC's space assets.
edit in and I'm not trying to give you a hardtime, some of it had to go back and look at, because 1'm on a new computer without all your older documents. I missed the Sub-affiliation document.
Yes Myomer Armor is a thing, the Lyran Commonwealth made it. In short when the battery is turned on the muscles tighten forming a fairly tough barrier to damage and it's concealable.
Never thought you where giving me a hard time.
If I came off as irritated I apologize. As Daryk can attest to, I get very analytical when I discuses rules and that can some times come off as irritation.
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Yes Myomer Armor is a thing, the Lyran Commonwealth made it. In short when the battery is turned on the muscles tighten forming a fairly tough barrier to damage and it's concealable.
can u tell me what book it is in...
Never thought you where giving me a hard time.
If I came off as irritated I apologize. As Daryk can attest to, I get very analytical when I discuses rules and that can some times come off as irritation.
And I can get a little hard head as Daryk can tell you, but MW2 is my prefered Jam too. So any expanding it a good thing.
Poor Daryk he is our "balance" point. :beer:
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You guys have no idea what I have to put up with in real life... ::)
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You guys have no idea what I have to put up with in real life... ::)
So what your saying is dealing with us is easy in comparison 😏
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can u tell me what book it is in...
And I can get a little hard head as Daryk can tell you, but MW2 is my prefered Jam too. So any expanding it a good thing.
Poor Daryk he is our "balance" point. :beer:
It's in the AToW corebook, there's not much fluff. It's mostly just the stat block and two sentences of info.
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Indeed, you guys are MUCH easier in comparison! :thumbsup:
Myomer armor is on page 289 of AToW, and the fluff is right below the table (though as Victor said, it's not much).
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So what your saying is dealing with us is easy in comparison 😏
No what he is saying is we need to be more differcult.. ;DMyomer armor is on page 289 of AToW, and the fluff is right below the table (though as Victor said, it's not much).
Grumble, I was hoping for more info... 8)
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Trust me, I don't think either of you have what it takes to top my job right now... xp
And NO, I don't want you to try! :D
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Trust me, I don't think either of you have what it takes to top my job right now... xp
And NO, I don't want you to try! :D
Are you sure that kinda sounds like a challenge?
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Unless one of you used to work for the other, and now is their boss (less than a year later), you can't touch this... 8)
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One of the reasons I like MW2 Edition is the ease of character creation and the 'hero level abilities' of said characters. I don't hate the high Intuitions everyone starts with but rather the same way everyone makes the characters. Rather than punish the INT at creation could would somehow generate a random factor that would make unique characters at the start?
Here are some ideas I am toying with as alternate Priority systems.
1. Change the Attribute Priority Levels to add a random roll to set attribute level.
Example: Priority 3: add "1d6+3" to two Attributes. (not a final number just a suggestion)
P0: -
P1: +1d3
P2: +1d3+3
P3: +1d6+3
P4: +1d6+6
All Attributes start at 3. Attributes Can't be lowered below 3
2. Have a standard array like in D&D for each priority level
Example: Priority 2:
P0: 3/3/3/3/3
P1: 4/4 3/3/3
P2: 4/4/4/4/4
P3: 5/5/4/4/4
P4: 6/5/5/4/4
Players may move up to 2 points during Character creation (May not exceed Racial Max) No Attribute can be lowered by more then 1 in this way.
3. Same as option 1, but with fix points
All Attributes start at 3.
P0: -
P1: 3
P2: 6
P3: 9
P4: 12
All Attributes start at 3. Attributes Can't be lowered below 3
4. Last but not least, character always get the 18 points from P0, but higher priorities add a bonus die.
P0: 18
P1: 18+1d3
P2: 18+1d3+3
P3: 18+(1d6+3)
P4: 18+(1d6+6)
Similar to option 1, but with some freedom added to distribution.
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Just for you DOC_Agren I reworked your suggestions for the Taurian Concordat schools into something more complete, Give me your feedback and I will finalize them for addition into the final book.
Taurian École Militaire (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: Social Saving roll Failure (+2)= washout and must seek training at another University
Package: Any Academy or University
Bonus: SI /Star League History, SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it, Gain Quirk/Taurian extremist.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training,
MOS: Battlemech, Cavalry, Infantry, Specialist (Mechanic), Specialist (Recon), Specialist (Tech), Armored Infantry (3058)
FOS: Leadership, Military Science
Taurian Naval Institute (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: Physical Saving roll Failure (+1) = washout and must seek training at another academy, anyone taking a University package must take Dropship pilot and Jumpship/Warship Pilot
Package: Any Academy or Basic University
Bonus: Tactics/Space, SI/ Taurian History +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it.
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training
MOS: Dropship, Marine, Specialist (Spacecraft Tech)
FOS: Jumpship
Concordat Aerospace Flight School (Taurian Concordat)
Requirements: None
Package: Basic Academy
Bonus: +1 skill levels in SI/Military History
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training
MOS: Aerospace, Specialist (Aero Tech)
Secret Warship/Insurgents Academy (Whereabouts unknown)
Requirements: Social Saving roll Failure (+3)= washout and must seek training at another University
Package: Any Academy or University
Bonus: Tactics/Any#, Strategy/Guerilla Tactics, +1 free of charge (May not raise it above 3). Gain the skill if you don’t have it. Gain Compulsions/Hatred of Federated Sun*
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training
MOS: Armored Infantry, Cavalry, Infantry, Marine, Battlemech, Aerospace, DropShip, Specialist (Recon), Specialist (Tech), Specialist (Aerospace Tech), Specialist (Mechanic)
FOS: Military Science, Jumpship/Warship, Leadership
Note: can be used to represent the hidden training bases before and during the Periphery Uprising/Aramis Civil War.
*=During the Periphery Uprising/Aramis Civil War change to Compulsions/Hatred of Star League, or for any other Periphery state change to Compulsions/Hatred of appropriated Successor/Periphery State.
#= Must be associated with selected MOS.
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I love that last one, but I'm not sure washouts would be allowed to leave... >:D
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couple thoughts:
Taurian École Militaire
I think it should be Basic or Advanced University as it should the the finest finishing school for the TC
Taurian Naval Institute
I will argue for Armored Infantry based on this Info Here (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Special_Asteroid_Support_Force)
Also if you have a Career package that exist as "Spacer" be it Miner, Zero G Construction, etc.. they should be able to gain access to them. After all the TC still had 1 of the best Spacer groups left in the CBT.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School
Is there any way you could limit student to at best Reg Pilot and Gunnery skills? As it is the "forgotten" school with very limited selection of possible pilots.
Secret Warship/Insurgents Academy
Love it... But like Daryk, if you fail out of the program, not sure you be let go.
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couple thoughts:
Taurian École Militaire
I think it should be Basic or Advanced University as it should the the finest finishing school for the TC
As none of the other current Periphery schools per-date the 3050s and all the Taurian schools date back to the Star League. I don't see where they need to have the highest program to have secured that title. From what I could see from the reading I did (still no solid info) they seem to be living on the idea of being the best more then actually being the best.
Taurian Naval Institute
I will argue for Armored Infantry based on this Info Here (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Special_Asteroid_Support_Force)
Also if you have a Career package that exist as "Spacer" be it Miner, Zero G Construction, etc.. they should be able to gain access to them. After all the TC still had 1 of the best Spacer groups left in the CBT.
I would go with them using Marine Combat Suit not true power armor. Now maybe a modified Armored Infantry where Piloting-Gunnery/Battle Armor are replaced with Piloting-Gunnery/spacesuit. There is a "Spacer Family" Background, but no Career package.
Concordat Aerospace Flight School
Is there any way you could limit student to at best Reg Pilot and Gunnery skills? As it is the "forgotten" school with very limited selection of possible pilots.
A high Athletic or Physical roll for entry could do that, but it would turn off players from trying to enter as the school give little to no bang for the effort. I was thinking about a Physical roll (+1) and the added bonus +1 to Piloting/Aerospace. The problem I have found is when you put something behind a paywall it needs to be worth it.
Secret Warship/Insurgents Academy
Love it... But like Daryk, if you fail out of the program, not sure you be let go.
This is a hard one to handle, and I'm up for any suggestion.
The problem is, while you are right, no player want to see their PC killed in character gen to a single roll.
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Back in the OG Traveler days, it was constant... ::)
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Back in the OG Traveler days, it was constant... ::)
Was also one of the biggest complaints about OG Traveler
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No argument there... you could easily spend more than one gaming session just trying to escape character creation... :-\
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As none of the other current Periphery schools per-date the 3050s and all the Taurian schools date back to the Star League. I don't see where they need to have the highest program to have secured that title. From what I could see from the reading I did (still no solid info) they seem to be living on the idea of being the best more then actually being the best.
It was not secure the title, it was to represent going there was "top school" like going to 1 of US Military Academies, vrs getting your officer commission, from an ROTC program. If you don't make it at Taurian École Militaire, then you are stuck in one of the local Taurian Academy, on every planet or go outside the TC.
I would go with them using Marine Combat Suit not true power armor. Now maybe a modified Armored Infantry where Piloting-Gunnery/Battle Armor are replaced with Piloting-Gunnery/spacesuit. There is a "Spacer Family" Background, but no Career package.
Because I can't find that quickly "Spacer Background", I might try later today to produce a Space Career package. I have some ideas but need to look at skills. I'm not sure when the XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor becomes available? Does 3085 help? It written up as a natural technological outgrowth of the Zero-G Exoskeleton construction suits utilized throughout the TC.
A high Athletic or Physical roll for entry could do that, but it would turn off players from trying to enter as the school give little to no bang for the effort. I was thinking about a Physical roll (+1) and the added bonus +1 to Piloting/Aerospace. The problem I have found is when you put something behind a paywall it needs to be worth it.
basicly until 3050 or so when OA help kicks in, really this school limited.. even I admit it.
This is a hard one to handle, and I'm up for any suggestion.
The problem is, while you are right, no player want to see their PC killed in character gen to a single roll.
Back in the OG Traveler days, it was constant... ::)
Was also one of the biggest complaints about OG Traveler
No argument there... you could easily spend more than one gaming session just trying to escape character creation... :-\
How true it was when you push it to far... how about if fail, you get Basic Academy Only and either Inf or Specialist training only. IE you get training, but you aren't going to "important"
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1.It was not secure the title, it was to represent going there was "top school" like going to 1 of US Military Academies, vrs getting your officer commission, from an ROTC program. If you don't make it at Taurian École Militaire, then you are stuck in one of the local Taurian Academy, on every planet or go outside the TC.
2.Because I can't find that quickly "Spacer Background", I might try later today to produce a Space Career package. I have some ideas but need to look at skills. I'm not sure when the XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor becomes available? Does 3085 help? It written up as a natural technological outgrowth of the Zero-G Exoskeleton construction suits utilized throughout the TC.
3.basicly until 3050 or so when OA help kicks in, really this school limited.. even I admit it.
4.How true it was when you push it to far... how about if fail, you get Basic Academy Only and either Inf or Specialist training only. IE you get training, but you aren't going to "important"
1. That's one of those, "I'll leave it as is and if the GM wants to allow Advanced University its their call.
2. Issues is my mission statement for this Guide, "I will not work on anything Jihad or later". If that is something you need have at it.
Sorry on this one, but Wizkids/CGL really screwed up on this one in my opinion. While I give credit to CGL for trying to fix the issues Wizkids created with the Jihad and Dark Age, to me it was just to little to late.
3. In the final draft I added a Physical roll (+2) and I added a +1 boost to Piloting/Aero. That should give the feel of a premier hard to enter Academy.
4. I went with "Failure= GMs Discretion" That way I put the blame on the GM not me ;D
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So here is the first sample PDF of the books page layout.
It is incomplete missing page numbers and I have yet to decide if I will leave the background clear for better printing or fancy for looks.
Before it is asked yes the pages are in order but are not consecutive. So each type of entry (era charts/backgrounds/etc.) will appear in the order presented.
Any question feel free to ask. I am also always open to suggestion as DOC_Agren can tell you.
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That's an interesting take on Natasha... where did you find it? :thumbsup:
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That's an interesting take on Natasha... where did you find it? :thumbsup:
Just off google pics.
If someone wants to claim it, I have no problem giving credit were credit is due.
So now that you are done drooling over Natasha (I had to take my time on this too ;)) any thoughts on the content so far.
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Ah... definitely worth trying to credit it.
Also, I find it interesting that being from a Successor House is basically a one-point advantage. Or did you mean blood relation (distant or otherwise)?
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Ah... definitely worth trying to credit it.
Also, I find it interesting that being from a Successor House is basically a one-point advantage. Or did you mean blood relation (distant or otherwise)?
Not sure I follow the question.
If you are asking what I think you are asking, it has to do with how the Affiliation system works.
As you will notice, the Affiliations are pointed out depending on the Race Priority that you take.
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That's what I'm trying to sort out... is a priority of 1 for "Human" a member of a House, or just a citizen (i.e., so that a zero is from the Periphery)?
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That's what I'm trying to sort out... is a priority of 1 for "Human" a member of a House, or just a citizen (i.e., so that a zero is from the Periphery)?
Priority 0 = Periphery citizen
Priority 1 = House citizen
Priority 2 = Terran citizen/Clan Warrior
Again this goes hand-and-hand with the Affiliation system that is pointed out using a base number + Extra Skills/Advantages earned from the higher priority level. This was an idea that came from the observation that their seemed to be no reason to take Human (1).
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Ah, that makes sense, thanks! :thumbsup:
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1. That's one of those, "I'll leave it as is and if the GM wants to allow Advanced University its their call.
2. Issues is my mission statement for this Guide, "I will not work on anything Jihad or later". If that is something you need have at it.
Sorry on this one, but Wizkids/CGL really screwed up on this one in my opinion. While I give credit to CGL for trying to fix the issues Wizkids created with the Jihad and Dark Age, to me it was just to little to late.
3. In the final draft I added a Physical roll (+2) and I added a +1 boost to Piloting/Aero. That should give the feel of a premier hard to enter Academy.
4. I went with "Failure= GMs Discretion" That way I put the blame on the GM not me ;D
1 and 4: :thumbsup:
2: I'm uncomfortable with the Jihad and farther on with CBT so I can agree, but then there are system and pieces that belong in cbt that have been add later Rocket Launchers, and stuff that should have been all along. That why I asked if the 3085 tro listed when the XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor becomes available? Or is just just in the fluff? Because I see it as more then a just a stock Marine Combat suit, more like a 3026 Exo-uit rigged for space combat use/operation. Should they not also have access to Leadership FOS
3. Not a Primary School, anyone who qualifies can get in, I beleive like 50% school is not Taurians students, this is the flight school anyone can get into. Because somehow the TC doesn't produce enough pilots. But has a large zero G skill set??? It really should not get more then the history lesson, from Post Star League until OWA instuctors arrive to takeover then school,
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The problem with the Marine Combat Suit is in the construction rules. Exoskeletons are totally available in 3025, but for some reason they tied environmental sealing to actual BA armor, which you don't get until after the Helm core now. That's yet another pet rock of mine...
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The problem with the Marine Combat Suit is in the construction rules. Exoskeletons are totally available in 3025, but for some reason they tied environmental sealing to actual BA armor, which you don't get until after the Helm core now. That's yet another pet rock of mine...
Yeah, that's one of the nice things about the RPG. Since it really doesn't have construction rule you can just add a text saying it is environmental sealed. :thumbsup:
And speaking of the Helm Core, I never quite got what they where going for in it's description. Is it;
1. Some type of large computer with engineering diagrams.
2. A engineers old flash drive/ what ever portable date storage they have
3. or just some star league library that just happened to have an engineering section.
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Yep u can't have environmental sealing with BA.. so what is space suit? 8)
Like Victor, u can just say this has environmental sealing but make sure it is not as good as BA sealing. What scary is looking at a Exosuit in 3025 and "armor" the user
Helm Core as I take, value. $0.002 is it was Star League Digital Library that was hidden as a "Just in case of emergency" you could rebuild from it. Honestly the civilian tech should have been more valuable, now you could build those star league water filters again. It was set up so it could be easy copied on to other data storage devices, unfortantly the 1 thing that no one seemed to have was to security key to direct decrypt the data.
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Not an exoskeleton? ???
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Not an exoskeleton? ???
I'm trying to get around the wording.. to slap armored on it.. and guns
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The Marine Combat Suit has enough BAR to be Divisor 2, so it effectively has one point of tactical armor, and there are a number of Support Weapons with a crew of 1 (looking at Grenade Launchers especially). That it's not encumbering is the real bonus (the Combat Space Suit only has Divisor 1, and is encumbering, for only 6 kg less).
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So work has slowed to a crawl due to me not feeling well, but I should have something in a week or two once I'm back on my feet
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While its been a long time in coming but here it is the first Beta of the Mechwarrior 2nd edition Character optional rules book one
As the name would suggest, this is the first of two books the second dealing with equipment and optional Combat/Equipment rules.
In this volume you will find rules for:
1. Optional Attribute generation.
2. Backgrounds
3. Alternate Master Priority and Vehicle charts for the BTUs multiple Eras.
4. Expanded Advantage and Disadvantages.
5. Expanded Skills and their use.
6. Academy packages for all the Factions not covered in the MW2 versions of the Field Manuals
7. Affiliation rules for both the 3025-3052 and 2400-2770 eras of play.
8. New Clan career Packages for both Combat and Non-Combat character
9. New Civilian COS (Career Occupational Skills) and HOS (Higher Occupational Skills)
And more.
As the Beta suggest this is a first in print draft of the rules.
Please look them over run them through the paces and provide some feedback on it.
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Very cool, looking it over now!
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While its been a long time in coming but here it is the first Beta of the Mechwarrior 2nd edition Character optional rules book one
As the name would suggest, this is the first of two books the second dealing with equipment and optional Combat/Equipment rules.
In this volume you will find rules for:
1. Optional Attribute generation.
2. Backgrounds
3. Alternate Master Priority and Vehicle charts for the BTUs multiple Eras.
4. Expanded Advantage and Disadvantages.
5. Expanded Skills and their use.
6. Academy packages for all the Factions not covered in the MW2 versions of the Field Manuals
7. Affiliation rules for both the 3025-3052 and 2400-2770 eras of play.
8. New Clan career Packages for both Combat and Non-Combat character
9. New Civilian COS (Career Occupational Skills) and HOS (Higher Occupational Skills)
And more.
As the Beta suggest this is a first in print draft of the rules.
Please look them over run them through the paces and provide some feedback on it.
Spellchecking & grammar checking:
page 5:
In the "Master Character Table 2400-2770 (Age of War/Star League)" table, the asterisks for Race options 1 & 2 should be 1, 2, 3 instead of 1, 1, 2
"Human Priority (0): This represents Character from Independent/Periphery territories."
Based on the other options, change to:
"Human Priority (0): This represents Characters from Independent/Periphery territories."
"Battlemech did not exist prior to 2443. No character can gain this Priority during the Age of War, as no BattleMech where sold outside the military"
Change to:
"Battlemechs did not exist prior to 2443. No character can gain this Priority during the Age of War, as no BattleMechs were sold outside the military"
Page 6:
On the "Master Character Table 2860-2900 (Golden Century)" table:
"Note: Character created before 2860 use 2700-2770 chart. Character created after 2900 use the 3025-3052 chart."
Change to:
"Note: Characters created before 2860 use 2700-2770 chart. Characters created after 2900 use the 3025-3052 chart."
"Note: Do to Clan characters not being able to own any property, all character must take Priority (0) for vehicles and be assigned a vehicle randomly by their commander/Clan"
Change to:
"Note: Due to Clan characters not being able to own any property, all Clan characters must take Priority (0) for vehicles and be assigned a vehicle randomly by their commander/Clan"
(This change should also be made to the "Master Vehicle Table 3025-3052" table, and the page 7 "Master Vehicle Table 3025-3052" table too)
Page 16:
The "Dropship Weight Table" has no option for 3 Advantage Points
Page 16-17:
"To determine how much debt a player character owes on his DropShip, roll 2D6. Combine the result with the number of points the player spent in choosing the DropShip weight, then consult the DropShip Debt Table."
Recommend change to:
"To determine how much debt a player character owes on his DropShip, roll 2D6 and add the number of points spent for the Dropship Advantage. Look up that total value on the DropShip Debt Table."
Also since everyone would pay at least 1 point for the Dropship advantage, the first range of points would be 3-5, not 2-5
Page 17:
The "Title/Bloodname" chart, specifically the area of the region granted under the Land Grant advantage. Going from 1 pt as a Knight to 2 pts as a Baronet is a 50* greater increase in land. The ratio of increases is: x50, x2, x15, x33. This would mean that anyone wanting to spend Advantage points on Title and Land Grant would always want to spend at least a total of 3 points (2 for the Baronet and 1 for the Land Grant). One idea for a change is as follows:
Knight 250 sq. km
Baronet 500 sq. km
Baron 5,000 sq. km
Count 50,000 sq. km
Duke 500,000 sq. km
The reason for the Knight's massive increase in land area is because the other titles can be inherited, while the Knight must be awarded. All others are just a x10 increase in land area.
Another idea might be where the points don't reflect land area, the value is in the amount of income. So you might have a Duke who is responsible for six star systems, but those systems have no habitable planets and the few asteroid mining operations spend ~90% of their labor/resources on just maintaining their systems so the people don't die. Another Duke might only have 50,000 sq km of land, but that land is some of the most fertile farming regions on New Avalon producing a rare form of food that people pay a lot for. So instead of land area it would be reflected as net income, and would need to be balanced against the Wealth advantage:
1 pt - 5,000 C-Bills
2 pts - 50,000 C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Knight's Land grant)
3 pts - 500,000 C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Baronet's Land grant)
4 pts - 2M C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Baron's Land grant)
Off-hand, the values for Land Grant would be income per month, so it would take 200 months for a Knight's land grant to equal a 2-pt Wealth advantage, 1000 months for a Baronet's land grant to equal the 3-pt Wealth advantage, and 400 months for a Baron's land grant to equal a 4-pt Wealth advantage
page 18:
Disadvantages:
Addiction could be combined where the item you are addicted to is reflected in its rarity and the rate you want to consume it. For example a noble might want a specific brand of wine from a specific planet, but they only drink it once a year. Another person might be a multi-pack a day smoker, but their favorite cigarettes are sold everywhere. This would mean removing "Addiction/Compulsion", and just having two tables under Addiction where one table would reflect rarity of the item, and the second is the frequency of desire for the item. (Legality of the item would be covered under rarity). For fear of heights, this would be the Phobia disadvantage (with similar charts of rarity and amount of debilitation). Addictions are things the character actively pursues, while Phobias are things that the character actively avoids.
The "Quirks" disadvantage should be moved so the list is alphabetical
The "Debt" disadvantage should be created. This would be made proportional to the Wealth advantage to reflect a person who took out a loan to buy their gear and now has to pay it off. A small Debt means they were just missing the last few items, while a large Debt means they had to borrow a lot to get what they thought was needed. Debt would be listed in terms of a certain amount of money needing to be paid back every month. Higher amounts of debt could mean a larger loan, or you took the loan from some really nasty people.
(Similarly an Income Advantage could be created, but the income at a certain point cost would be less than the debt for the same point cost to avoid a player min-maxing their character so their Income advantage offsets their Debt disadvantage. The income advantage would provide more money per month than the Title+Land Grant advantage, but lack the social aspects of the title)
page 21:
The last two words on the page are "A note". Is something supposed to come after them?
page 26:
Clan Labor Caste package: you are getting effectively 11 skill points in exchange for the cost of 9 pts: (3+2+1 + 1 + 1 + 2+1). Recommend increasing the number and value of Career skills, increasing the Drive skill, but making a note somewhere that Labor Caste will likely have the "Poverty" disadvantage and when among other Castes that the Labor caste will have the "Bad Reputation" disadvantage.
Merchant Caste: 23 skill pts for 16 cost points
Scientist Caste: 20 skill pts for 16 cost points
Technician Caste: 34 skill pts for 19 cost points
Scientist Caste needs more skills, Technician Caste needs fewer skills or a higher price.
General:
Several locations have "Aramis" instead of Amaris"
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Definitely interesting, though I'll say it basically looks like a stripped down life path system to me. Do you have all the packages in a spreadsheet? That would be easier for me to review.
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Definitely interesting, though I'll say it basically looks like a stripped down life path system to me. Do you have all the packages in a spreadsheet? That would be easier for me to review.
Addressing the easiest question first.
The Background and Affiliation sections are a conversion from the the 3rd edition life paths.
The academy section is a expansion from the pre-existing School sections of the Field Manuals during the MW2 edition era that were never completed due to the switch over to 3rd edition.
No there are no spreadsheet for any of the schools as they where models off the existing School from FM DC/FWL/CS/Etc.
As for the Background and Affiliation they were built from the ground up using either a straight point cost (Backgrounds) or a formula based off the priority level of that faction. Which basically breaks down to 1 Priority = 4 Skills, 3 Attribute, or 1 Advantage + A base starting set of points (4 I think) its been awhile. :-\
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That breaks down a bit with being from a Successor State equaling the equivalent of 1 Advantage point, but it makes sense otherwise. I should have a spreadsheet put together by the end of next weekend.
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Page 17:
The "Title/Bloodname" chart, specifically the area of the region granted under the Land Grant advantage. Going from 1 pt as a Knight to 2 pts as a Baronet is a 50* greater increase in land. The ratio of increases is: x50, x2, x15, x33. This would mean that anyone wanting to spend Advantage points on Title and Land Grant would always want to spend at least a total of 3 points (2 for the Baronet and 1 for the Land Grant). One idea for a change is as follows:
Knight 250 sq. km
Baronet 500 sq. km
Baron 5,000 sq. km
Count 50,000 sq. km
Duke 500,000 sq. km
The reason for the Knight's massive increase in land area is because the other titles can be inherited, while the Knight must be awarded. All others are just a x10 increase in land area.
Another idea might be where the points don't reflect land area, the value is in the amount of income. So you might have a Duke who is responsible for six star systems, but those systems have no habitable planets and the few asteroid mining operations spend ~90% of their labor/resources on just maintaining their systems so the people don't die. Another Duke might only have 50,000 sq km of land, but that land is some of the most fertile farming regions on New Avalon producing a rare form of food that people pay a lot for. So instead of land area it would be reflected as net income, and would need to be balanced against the Wealth advantage:
1 pt - 5,000 C-Bills
2 pts - 50,000 C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Knight's Land grant)
3 pts - 500,000 C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Baronet's Land grant)
4 pts - 2M C-Bills (same number of Advantage points as a Baron's Land grant)
Off-hand, the values for Land Grant would be income per month, so it would take 200 months for a Knight's land grant to equal a 2-pt Wealth advantage, 1000 months for a Baronet's land grant to equal the 3-pt Wealth advantage, and 400 months for a Baron's land grant to equal a 4-pt Wealth advantage
The land areas are directly out of the Mechwarrior 2nd edition corebook Pg. 157. MW2 also provides a C-Bill per year income chart that the land provides which is where the balancing comes in. As this has a more liner progression then the land it grants due to the increased cost of maintaining large areas of land.
Knight 25,000 C-Bills
Baronet 50,000 C-Bills
Baron 100,000 C-Bills
page 18:
Disadvantages:
Addiction could be combined where the item you are addicted to is reflected in its rarity and the rate you want to consume it. For example a noble might want a specific brand of wine from a specific planet, but they only drink it once a year. Another person might be a multi-pack a day smoker, but their favorite cigarettes are sold everywhere. This would mean removing "Addiction/Compulsion", and just having two tables under Addiction where one table would reflect rarity of the item, and the second is the frequency of desire for the item. (Legality of the item would be covered under rarity). For fear of heights, this would be the Phobia disadvantage (with similar charts of rarity and amount of debilitation). Addictions are things the character actively pursues, while Phobias are things that the character actively avoids.
This is one I would leave to the GM. Seem a little to crunch even for me. But have at it, and if you would like to fully flesh it out, I could add it as a more advanced rule in the end appendixes created to you.
The "Quirks" disadvantage should be moved so the list is alphabetical
Quirks is the 1 point disadvantage in the (1-3) Compulsion range, that's why it's located were its at.
The "Debt" disadvantage should be created. This would be made proportional to the Wealth advantage to reflect a person who took out a loan to buy their gear and now has to pay it off. A small Debt means they were just missing the last few items, while a large Debt means they had to borrow a lot to get what they thought was needed. Debt would be listed in terms of a certain amount of money needing to be paid back every month. Higher amounts of debt could mean a larger loan, or you took the loan from some really nasty people.
(Similarly an Income Advantage could be created, but the income at a certain point cost would be less than the debt for the same point cost to avoid a player min-maxing their character so their Income advantage offsets their Debt disadvantage. The income advantage would provide more money per month than the Title+Land Grant advantage, but lack the social aspects of the title)
See Addiction above
As for the Income Advantage, this again to me seems like a GM/Player discussion more then an advantage.
Personally, I don't care if the player wants to have a separate source of income outside what they normally do, but they would IMHO have to Roleplay it and not get it for just spending XP.
page 21:
The last two words on the page are "A note". Is something supposed to come after them?
Forgot to expand the text box all the way in Publisher. Missing text should read (A note "must be made on the character sheet of the effected disadvantage by the player.")
page 26:
Clan Labor Caste package: you are getting effectively 11 skill points in exchange for the cost of 9 pts: (3+2+1 + 1 + 1 + 2+1). Recommend increasing the number and value of Career skills, increasing the Drive skill, but making a note somewhere that Labor Caste will likely have the "Poverty" disadvantage and when among other Castes that the Labor caste will have the "Bad Reputation" disadvantage.
Merchant Caste: 23 skill pts for 16 cost points
Scientist Caste: 20 skill pts for 16 cost points
Technician Caste: 34 skill pts for 19 cost points
Scientist Caste needs more skills, Technician Caste needs fewer skills or a higher price.
Unfortunately pre-edit tables got into the draft.
the correct table should be
Clan Caste Packages Clan Caste Packages
Cost Skills Level
(5) Labor Caste
Administration 2
Drive/Ground 2
Career/ Any 1
Cost Skills Level
(14) Merchant Caste
Administration 4
Computer 3
Appraisal 2
Negotiation 1
Cost Skills Level
(19) Scientist Caste Scientist Caste
Administration 3
Computer 4
Career/Any Science 3
MedTech 3
Cost Skills Level
(14) Technical Caste Technical Caste
Administration 2
Perception 3
Computer 2
Technician/Any 3
Technician/Any 2
The correct tables have been added and will be present in the final draft.
General:
Several locations have "Aramis" instead of Amaris"
Please note the Pg.#s and locations so I can correct this error.
All other error noted have been corrected ty for the proof read.
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As for the Labor Caste will likely have the "Poverty" disadvantage and when among other Castes that the Labor caste will have the "Bad Reputation" disadvantage.
Poverty is not a thing in the Clans, you are given what you need to survive.
As for Bad Reputation, this assumes that a Clan warrior would take the time to notice a lower caste member.
Then you also have the question "does every player get the Bad Reputation disadvantage because the landed NPC in the game are higher social caste then them"
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So a few items for the 2nd draft.
1. Does it need a character creation outline or is it easy enough to figure out.
2. Are there any options that just don't work that I need to drop.
3. Are there any missing options that you would like to see added.
I'm thinking of added an appendix with more advanced rules and Forum requested extras that don't fit directly into the main book. I am open to ideas. Do note that if it is just a request with no rule ideas provided it will probably not make it into the first finished draft, as I still have work to do on other sections (book two) before I can start on new rules. Any request that come with basic rule ideas or just need editing will probably make it in.
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1) Yes, that would be helpful.
2) Not that I see.
3) Yes. You've basically got a life path system that runs through Stage 3. Adding Stage 4 modules will be a heavy lift, but honestly, you're over 80% of the way there already.
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1) Yes, that would be helpful.
2) Not that I see.
3) Yes. You've basically got a life path system that runs through Stage 3. Adding Stage 4 modules will be a heavy lift, but honestly, you're over 80% of the way there already.
1. I will see what I can do
2. Cool
3. Stage 4 is for lack of a better word "a game session without a game session". As I was not fond of the idea in AToW, I chose not to create it for MW2. But as I stated, if you want to write something up I will take a look and it may be added to the appendix as an option.
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So green characters only out of character creation? ???
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So green characters only out of character creation? ???
Truth be told, I have never found any character created by the AToW system to be that much better then a green character or at the very best a low level regular without substantially ageing the character. One of the main issues with connecting character creation to age. That said, MW2 has a reputation for fairly powerful PCs to began with, which is why I tried to avoid combat skills and advantages in the backgrounds and affiliation when possible and only added culturally appropriate ones. This is also why you will find no Gunnery/Mech or Piloting/Aerospace in anything outside the Academies and MOS/FOS packages. Add to this that the rules for MW2 set a limit on starting skill level that you are normally at or at least close to by the end of Character creation and what would be the point of a 4th stage.
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More experience is explicitly about older characters. A 20-year veteran should definitely be better at any number of things, slowed reflexes or no.
No argument at all about leaving combat skills out of packages that aren't combat training through Stage 3.
Stage 4 is about "real world" experience. How else do you get ex-regular troops who "go" mercenary? ???
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More experience is explicitly about older characters. A 20-year veteran should definitely be better at any number of things, slowed reflexes or no.
No argument at all about leaving combat skills out of packages that aren't combat training through Stage 3.
Stage 4 is about "real world" experience. How else do you get ex-regular troops who "go" mercenary? ???
This is were we differ on things, while I agree that time in grade does bring experience. The idea that you/I have to be older to be good at something flies in the face of prodigies and natural talented people. The Black Widow and other famous NPCs like her were good out the gate and got better with age. The biggest problem with the AToW system is that it doesn't portray this well or in some cases at all.
That said, if you want to write up some ideas for a "4th stage" option I will look it over and add it to the appendix, if not there is no point in addressing it here.
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Sounds good... probably going to be next weekend before I can get to it, though. Thanks! :thumbsup:
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So, since I am working on the battle armor section of book 2 right now. I was wondering if enough of you want me to expand them to include protomechs to make it worth my time. Truth be told, I couldn't care about them and it would be more a labor of request than a labor of love.
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Page 1:
Option #5, point 5: "The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fix"
Change to:
"The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fit"
Page 2:
Example: "As this leas to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
Chaange to:
"As this leads to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
The land areas are directly out of the Mechwarrior 2nd edition corebook Pg. 157. MW2 also provides a C-Bill per year income chart that the land provides which is where the balancing comes in. As this has a more liner progression then the land it grants due to the increased cost of maintaining large areas of land.
Knight 25,000 C-Bills
Baronet 50,000 C-Bills
Baron 100,000 C-Bills
The MW2 table is also wrong. It should be reflecting the income, not the land area. The income per year should be the primary driver of what is given, not the land size. You can even se that a Knight has a massive 2500 C-Bills per sq km land income, the Baronet through Marquess have a ratio of 100 C-Bills/sq km, then the Duke has a ratio of 200 C-Bills/sq km.
A better Noble title/income chart would have had a large ratio for income per square kilometer at the Knight end, and the ratio getting smaller the higher you get in the social circles (to reflect that the higher ranking noble is cutting off a profitable location for a subordinate to maintain). This reflects real life where you can have small regions that are highly profitable (i.e. a diamond mine), while an overall country would have a lot of land that is not profitable (i.e. the various national parks operated by the US government).
A key note for the Land Grant is that the character (and the other players) is expected to take care of and improve the Land. This can be finding skilled personnel/teachers, getting tech samples/computer records, along with sometimes needing to defend the location from pirates. Part of the Noble title includes obligations, so the character may be called upon at time to defend their feudal superior when they would prefer to just sit and relax.
This is one I would leave to the GM. Seem a little to crunch even for me. But have at it, and if you would like to fully flesh it out, I could add it as a more advanced rule in the end appendixes created to you.
Quirks is the 1 point disadvantage in the (1-3) Compulsion range, that's why it's located were its at.
See Addiction above
Ah. The options looked identical to the Compulsion header, so I thought they were separate disadvantages. Since Psychosis has its own table, it should get its own header under disadvantages, rather than being part of "Compulsions"
How about this:
Compulsions: various conscious or subconscious habits or fears that negatively affect the character. These can range from minor stuttering that occurs rarely, to debilitating addictions that must be satisfied on a daily basis or the character takes severe penalties.
Rate of occurrence:
1/year: 0 pts
1/month: 1 pt
1/week: 2 pts
1/day: 3 pts
Frequency of Compulsion/addiction availability
Available freely on-planet: 0 pts
Restricted access (requiring permits to get it locally): 1 pt
Not legally provided on the planet the character is located, but is provided within the nation you are in: 2 pts
Off-world only supply from a nation you are not in: 3 pts
If the item is illegal for the planet you are on, add 1 pt to the value of this disadvantage.
Phobias: various environmental or mental effects that can potentially debilitate the character. Value of this disadvantage is based on how often the situation occurs and how harmful it is to the character. GMs are encouraged to avoid a player using this disadvantage for free, such as a fear of drowning when deployed on a desert planet. The die roll penalty applies to all die rolls where the character is having to think about the situation (i.e. rolling vs Body to heal would not be affected, but rolling Medtech skill would apply since that requires the character to think.)
Length of debilitation:
1 combat turn: 0 pts
1 hour: 1 pt
1 day: 2 pts
1 week: 3 pts
Penalty to the character:
1 pt penalty to die rolls: 1 pt
2 pts penalty to die rolls: 2 pts
3 pts penalty to die rolls: 3 pts
aso
For Quirks, I'd recommend removing them as they would be part of the character's personality rather than a debilitating effect. Since 1 pt of Wealth is 5,000 C-Bills, I am having a difficult time seeing Addiction/Smoking as equal to 1 pt of Wealth.
As for the Income Advantage, this again to me seems like a GM/Player discussion more then an advantage.
Personally, I don't care if the player wants to have a separate source of income outside what they normally do, but they would IMHO have to Roleplay it and not get it for just spending XP.
A note can be added about buying or increasing the Income advantage needing lots of Roleplay during the game.
Income: the character has a source of money coming to them in the form of bank interest, stock portfolio, a trust fund, or a relative who sends you money each month, etc. The nice part is that your character does not have to protect this income normally, you just receive the money. This advantage is valued at the following rate:
50 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
500 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
5000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(this is set up where the monthly income equals the Wealth value if the character is willing to wait 100 months, or just over 8 years)
Debt: You owe money to some people, and they want their money back. This can be a polite bank charging low interest and just wants a check every month, a payment sent off to help family/friends, all the way to the local loan shark who loaned you money at a horrible interest rate and has connections on other planets to make sure they get paid. Debt disadvantage is measured as amount to be paid every month::
100 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
1000 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
10,000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(I just doubled the values for the Income to make the math easy)
Debt and Income can be bought with points during setup, but have to be bought with roleplay during the game. To reduce a debt you have to pay 100 C-Bills to the debtor in order to reduce the amount of subsequent monthly payments by 1 C-Bill. So if you every have a 3-pt Debt Disadvantage and want to pay it off in-game, you need to come up with a total of 1 million C-Bills. Hope you can salvage a Mech soon. You can even have a situation where someone has a Knight title with a land grant (MW2e has the Knight getting 25,000 C-Bills/yr), but the character also took 1 pt of Debt and has to pay a total of 1200 C-Bills every year.
Forgot to expand the text box all the way in Publisher. Missing text should read (A note "must be made on the character sheet of the effected disadvantage by the player.")
Unfortunately pre-edit tables got into the draft.
the correct table should be
Clan Caste Packages Clan Caste Packages
Cost Skills Level
(5) Labor Caste
Administration 2
Drive/Ground 2
Career/ Any 1
Cost Skills Level
(14) Merchant Caste
Administration 4
Computer 3
Appraisal 2
Negotiation 1
Cost Skills Level
(19) Scientist Caste Scientist Caste
Administration 3
Computer 4
Career/Any Science 3
MedTech 3
Cost Skills Level
(14) Technical Caste Technical Caste
Administration 2
Perception 3
Computer 2
Technician/Any 3
Technician/Any 2
The correct tables have been added and will be present in the final draft.
MW2e only gave 12 pts to the Secondary Clan Mechwarrior package, or 16 pts to Clan Pilot or Elemental, yet Scientist gets 19 pts skills package, while the Merchant and Technical Castes get 14 pts each. To me the Merchant, Scientist, and Technical Castes should be reduced to 12-pt cost and 18 skill pts (this is why the Secondary Mechwarrior is so cranky, as lower-caste personnel have similar education amounts as he does.
Laborer Package: 5 pts for 7 skill levels (2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Merchant Package: 14 pts for 20 skill levels (4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Scientist Package: 19 pts for 28 skill levels (3+2+1 + 4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 3+2+1)
Technical Package: 14 pts for 21 skill levels (2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1)
For Laborer Caste, I'd be tempted to swap the Administration and Career skill points, to reflect that Laborers don't need to know more than the basics about getting their rations, but the Clans will want the Laborers to do a decent job. From the MW2e book, the Clan Schools have a ratio of 1.5 skill points received per point of school cost, so I'd be tempted to add another 1-pt skill to the Laborer caste, or even bump up the skills and cost as follows:
Cost Skills Level
(8) Labor Caste
Administration 1
Career/ Any 2
*Career/ Any 2
Drive/Ground 2
Medtech or Unarmed Combat 1
Scrounge or Streetwise or Tinker 1
* The second Career Skill can be removed to increase the first Career Skill from a 2-pt skill to a 3-pt skill
The Medtech reflects basic urban health care that a Laborer can figure out and pass on to their friends, while Unarmed Combat reflects the basic fights that Laborers can get into.
The Scrounge/Streetwise/Tinker reflects that a Laborer will attempt to use various pieces of junk to accomplish small goals, or the Laborer knowing who to talk to in order to accomplish a goal.
The other idea would be putting certain skills as preferences among the different Castes. I.e. the Merchant Caste package should Administration skill at 3, as keeping track of material is their job. Scientist and Technical Castes would have Administration 2, as they do need to know some administrative capability to get the right resources. Similarly, Technical Caste would start with the highest Computer Skill, as that is their purpose.
Please note the Pg.#s and locations so I can correct this error.
Page 25:
The Note at the end of the "Secret Warship/Insurgents Camps" has two cases of "Aramis" when it should be "Amaris"
All other error noted have been corrected ty for the proof read.
Can you attach the updated proof to the original post (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/mechwarrior-second-edition-optional-rule/msg1777276/#msg1777276)?
As for the Labor Caste will likely have the "Poverty" disadvantage and when among other Castes that the Labor caste will have the "Bad Reputation" disadvantage.
Poverty is not a thing in the Clans, you are given what you need to survive.
As for Bad Reputation, this assumes that a Clan warrior would take the time to notice a lower caste member.
Then you also have the question "does every player get the Bad Reputation disadvantage because the landed NPC in the game are higher social caste then them"
The Clans have a credit system that is reset every month so the Laborers have to work constantly since savings are not possible. Plus the Clan system is far more harsh, as Laborer Caste is 4 levels below Warrior. Imagine a PC that was a Knight trying to talk to a Duke and what would be involved. The Bad Reputation would work to cover all the social difficulties involved.
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Page 1:
Option #5, point 5: "The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fix"
Change to:
"The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fit"
Page 2:
Example: "As this leas to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
Chaange to:
"As this leads to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
The MW2 table is also wrong. It should be reflecting the income, not the land area. The income per year should be the primary driver of what is given, not the land size. You can even se that a Knight has a massive 2500 C-Bills per sq km land income, the Baronet through Marquess have a ratio of 100 C-Bills/sq km, then the Duke has a ratio of 200 C-Bills/sq km.
A better Noble title/income chart would have had a large ratio for income per square kilometer at the Knight end, and the ratio getting smaller the higher you get in the social circles (to reflect that the higher ranking noble is cutting off a profitable location for a subordinate to maintain). This reflects real life where you can have small regions that are highly profitable (i.e. a diamond mine), while an overall country would have a lot of land that is not profitable (i.e. the various national parks operated by the US government).
A key note for the Land Grant is that the character (and the other players) is expected to take care of and improve the Land. This can be finding skilled personnel/teachers, getting tech samples/computer records, along with sometimes needing to defend the location from pirates. Part of the Noble title includes obligations, so the character may be called upon at time to defend their feudal superior when they would prefer to just sit and relax.
Ah. The options looked identical to the Compulsion header, so I thought they were separate disadvantages. Since Psychosis has its own table, it should get its own header under disadvantages, rather than being part of "Compulsions"
How about this:
Compulsions: various conscious or subconscious habits or fears that negatively affect the character. These can range from minor stuttering that occurs rarely, to debilitating addictions that must be satisfied on a daily basis or the character takes severe penalties.
Rate of occurrence:
1/year: 0 pts
1/month: 1 pt
1/week: 2 pts
1/day: 3 pts
Frequency of Compulsion/addiction availability
Available freely on-planet: 0 pts
Restricted access (requiring permits to get it locally): 1 pt
Not legally provided on the planet the character is located, but is provided within the nation you are in: 2 pts
Off-world only supply from a nation you are not in: 3 pts
If the item is illegal for the planet you are on, add 1 pt to the value of this disadvantage.
Phobias: various environmental or mental effects that can potentially debilitate the character. Value of this disadvantage is based on how often the situation occurs and how harmful it is to the character. GMs are encouraged to avoid a player using this disadvantage for free, such as a fear of drowning when deployed on a desert planet. The die roll penalty applies to all die rolls where the character is having to think about the situation (i.e. rolling vs Body to heal would not be affected, but rolling Medtech skill would apply since that requires the character to think.)
Length of debilitation:
1 combat turn: 0 pts
1 hour: 1 pt
1 day: 2 pts
1 week: 3 pts
Penalty to the character:
1 pt penalty to die rolls: 1 pt
2 pts penalty to die rolls: 2 pts
3 pts penalty to die rolls: 3 pts
aso
For Quirks, I'd recommend removing them as they would be part of the character's personality rather than a debilitating effect. Since 1 pt of Wealth is 5,000 C-Bills, I am having a difficult time seeing Addiction/Smoking as equal to 1 pt of Wealth.
A note can be added about buying or increasing the Income advantage needing lots of Roleplay during the game.
Income: the character has a source of money coming to them in the form of bank interest, stock portfolio, a trust fund, or a relative who sends you money each month, etc. The nice part is that your character does not have to protect this income normally, you just receive the money. This advantage is valued at the following rate:
50 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
500 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
5000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(this is set up where the monthly income equals the Wealth value if the character is willing to wait 100 months, or just over 8 years)
Debt: You owe money to some people, and they want their money back. This can be a polite bank charging low interest and just wants a check every month, a payment sent off to help family/friends, all the way to the local loan shark who loaned you money at a horrible interest rate and has connections on other planets to make sure they get paid. Debt disadvantage is measured as amount to be paid every month::
100 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
1000 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
10,000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(I just doubled the values for the Income to make the math easy)
Debt and Income can be bought with points during setup, but have to be bought with roleplay during the game. To reduce a debt you have to pay 100 C-Bills to the debtor in order to reduce the amount of subsequent monthly payments by 1 C-Bill. So if you every have a 3-pt Debt Disadvantage and want to pay it off in-game, you need to come up with a total of 1 million C-Bills. Hope you can salvage a Mech soon. You can even have a situation where someone has a Knight title with a land grant (MW2e has the Knight getting 25,000 C-Bills/yr), but the character also took 1 pt of Debt and has to pay a total of 1200 C-Bills every year.
MW2e only gave 12 pts to the Secondary Clan Mechwarrior package, or 16 pts to Clan Pilot or Elemental, yet Scientist gets 19 pts skills package, while the Merchant and Technical Castes get 14 pts each. To me the Merchant, Scientist, and Technical Castes should be reduced to 12-pt cost and 18 skill pts (this is why the Secondary Mechwarrior is so cranky, as lower-caste personnel have similar education amounts as he does.
Laborer Package: 5 pts for 7 skill levels (2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Merchant Package: 14 pts for 20 skill levels (4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Scientist Package: 19 pts for 28 skill levels (3+2+1 + 4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 3+2+1)
Technical Package: 14 pts for 21 skill levels (2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1)
For Laborer Caste, I'd be tempted to swap the Administration and Career skill points, to reflect that Laborers don't need to know more than the basics about getting their rations, but the Clans will want the Laborers to do a decent job. From the MW2e book, the Clan Schools have a ratio of 1.5 skill points received per point of school cost, so I'd be tempted to add another 1-pt skill to the Laborer caste, or even bump up the skills and cost as follows:
Cost Skills Level
(8) Labor Caste
Administration 1
Career/ Any 2
*Career/ Any 2
Drive/Ground 2
Medtech or Unarmed Combat 1
Scrounge or Streetwise or Tinker 1
* The second Career Skill can be removed to increase the first Career Skill from a 2-pt skill to a 3-pt skill
The Medtech reflects basic urban health care that a Laborer can figure out and pass on to their friends, while Unarmed Combat reflects the basic fights that Laborers can get into.
The Scrounge/Streetwise/Tinker reflects that a Laborer will attempt to use various pieces of junk to accomplish small goals, or the Laborer knowing who to talk to in order to accomplish a goal.
The other idea would be putting certain skills as preferences among the different Castes. I.e. the Merchant Caste package should Administration skill at 3, as keeping track of material is their job. Scientist and Technical Castes would have Administration 2, as they do need to know some administrative capability to get the right resources. Similarly, Technical Caste would start with the highest Computer Skill, as that is their purpose.
Page 25:
The Note at the end of the "Secret Warship/Insurgents Camps" has two cases of "Aramis" when it should be "Amaris"
Can you attach the updated proof to the original post (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/mechwarrior-second-edition-optional-rule/msg1777276/#msg1777276)?
The Clans have a credit system that is reset every month so the Laborers have to work constantly since savings are not possible. Plus the Clan system is far more harsh, as Laborer Caste is 4 levels below Warrior. Imagine a PC that was a Knight trying to talk to a Duke and what would be involved. The Bad Reputation would work to cover all the social difficulties involved.
At work right, will take a look at your advantage/disadvantages when I get home.
As for the Clan packages, the calculation is 2/3 of the points spent not1.5..
Was not planning on posting the updated version till I got the second book done but if it will help I'll make the effort.
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No need for protos as far as I'm concerned.
-
No need for protos as far as I'm concerned.
Ditto for me
-
Page 1:
Option #5, point 5: "The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fix"
Change to:
"The player is free to distribute these rolls among their Attributes as they see fit"
Page 2:
Example: "As this leas to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
Change to:
"As this leads to him failing one of the rolls, Jon washes out of Sibko training"
Corrected ;)
The MW2 table is also wrong. It should be reflecting the income, not the land area. The income per year should be the primary driver of what is given, not the land size. You can even se that a Knight has a massive 2500 C-Bills per sq km land income, the Baronet through Marquess have a ratio of 100 C-Bills/sq km, then the Duke has a ratio of 200 C-Bills/sq km.
A better Noble title/income chart would have had a large ratio for income per square kilometer at the Knight end, and the ratio getting smaller the higher you get in the social circles (to reflect that the higher ranking noble is cutting off a profitable location for a subordinate to maintain). This reflects real life where you can have small regions that are highly profitable (i.e. a diamond mine), while an overall country would have a lot of land that is not profitable (i.e. the various national parks operated by the US government).
A key note for the Land Grant is that the character (and the other players) is expected to take care of and improve the Land. This can be finding skilled personnel/teachers, getting tech samples/computer records, along with sometimes needing to defend the location from pirates. Part of the Noble title includes obligations, so the character may be called upon at time to defend their feudal superior when they would prefer to just sit and relax.
This is one of those areas that I did not create the Advantages (Title/Land Grant), they exist in the core rules already, I just expanded them. Anything of this level I would put in the appendix as an advanced option.
Ah. The options looked identical to the Compulsion header, so I thought they were separate disadvantages. Since Psychosis has its own table, it should get its own header under disadvantages, rather than being part of "Compulsions"
How about this:
Compulsions: various conscious or subconscious habits or fears that negatively affect the character. These can range from minor stuttering that occurs rarely, to debilitating addictions that must be satisfied on a daily basis or the character takes severe penalties.
Rate of occurrence:
1/year: 0 pts
1/month: 1 pt
1/week: 2 pts
1/day: 3 pts
Frequency of Compulsion/addiction availability
Available freely on-planet: 0 pts
Restricted access (requiring permits to get it locally): 1 pt
Not legally provided on the planet the character is located, but is provided within the nation you are in: 2 pts
Off-world only supply from a nation you are not in: 3 pts
If the item is illegal for the planet you are on, add 1 pt to the value of this disadvantage.
Phobias: various environmental or mental effects that can potentially debilitate the character. Value of this disadvantage is based on how often the situation occurs and how harmful it is to the character. GMs are encouraged to avoid a player using this disadvantage for free, such as a fear of drowning when deployed on a desert planet. The die roll penalty applies to all die rolls where the character is having to think about the situation (i.e. rolling vs Body to heal would not be affected, but rolling Medtech skill would apply since that requires the character to think.)
Length of debilitation:
1 combat turn: 0 pts
1 hour: 1 pt
1 day: 2 pts
1 week: 3 pts
Penalty to the character:
1 pt penalty to die rolls: 1 pt
2 pts penalty to die rolls: 2 pts
3 pts penalty to die rolls: 3 pts
aso
For Quirks, I'd recommend removing them as they would be part of the character's personality rather than a debilitating effect. Since 1 pt of Wealth is 5,000 C-Bills, I am having a difficult time seeing Addiction/Smoking as equal to 1 pt of Wealth.
1. Compulsion is not a Disadvantage by itself, it's a header for a group of disadvantages.
2. The chart for Psychosis is not a progression, you choose one when you take the 3 point Compulsion (Psychosis)
3. Obviously you don't smoke, I spend over 3,000 a year on cigarettes and I only smoke 1/2 a pack a day.
A note can be added about buying or increasing the Income advantage needing lots of Roleplay during the game.
Income: the character has a source of money coming to them in the form of bank interest, stock portfolio, a trust fund, or a relative who sends you money each month, etc. The nice part is that your character does not have to protect this income normally, you just receive the money. This advantage is valued at the following rate:
50 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
500 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
5000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(this is set up where the monthly income equals the Wealth value if the character is willing to wait 100 months, or just over 8 years)
I would go with a lot shallower progression on this one. I tend to follow the old RPG adage that if it's something you must have its overpowered.
Debt: You owe money to some people, and they want their money back. This can be a polite bank charging low interest and just wants a check every month, a payment sent off to help family/friends, all the way to the local loan shark who loaned you money at a horrible interest rate and has connections on other planets to make sure they get paid. Debt disadvantage is measured as amount to be paid every month::
100 C-Bills/month - 1 pt
1000 C-Bills/month - 2 pts
10,000 C-Bills/month - 3 pts
(I just doubled the values for the Income to make the math easy)
Debt and Income can be bought with points during setup, but have to be bought with roleplay during the game. To reduce a debt you have to pay 100 C-Bills to the debtor in order to reduce the amount of subsequent monthly payments by 1 C-Bill. So if you every have a 3-pt Debt Disadvantage and want to pay it off in-game, you need to come up with a total of 1 million C-Bills. Hope you can salvage a Mech soon. You can even have a situation where someone has a Knight title with a land grant (MW2e has the Knight getting 25,000 C-Bills/yr), but the character also took 1 pt of Debt and has to pay a total of 1200 C-Bills every year.
This seems ok until you take into account that a regulars level MechWarrior makes 1,500 a month with most other expenses covered (Food/Lodging/Transportation/Etc.). So for most character, this would seem like a free advantage point. And that's why I tend to avoid Disadvantages like this.
MW2e only gave 12 pts to the Secondary Clan Mechwarrior package, or 16 pts to Clan Pilot or Elemental, yet Scientist gets 19 pts skills package, while the Merchant and Technical Castes get 14 pts each. To me the Merchant, Scientist, and Technical Castes should be reduced to 12-pt cost and 18 skill pts (this is why the Secondary Mechwarrior is so cranky, as lower-caste personnel have similar education amounts as he does.
Laborer Package: 5 pts for 7 skill levels (2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Merchant Package: 14 pts for 20 skill levels (4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 1)
Scientist Package: 19 pts for 28 skill levels (3+2+1 + 4+3+2+1 + 3+2+1 + 3+2+1)
Technical Package: 14 pts for 21 skill levels (2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1 + 3+2+1 + 2+1)
For Laborer Caste, I'd be tempted to swap the Administration and Career skill points, to reflect that Laborers don't need to know more than the basics about getting their rations, but the Clans will want the Laborers to do a decent job. From the MW2e book, the Clan Schools have a ratio of 1.5 skill points received per point of school cost, so I'd be tempted to add another 1-pt skill to the Laborer caste, or even bump up the skills and cost as follows:
Cost Skills Level
(8) Labor Caste
Administration 1
Career/ Any 2
*Career/ Any 2
Drive/Ground 2
Medtech or Unarmed Combat 1
Scrounge or Streetwise or Tinker 1
* The second Career Skill can be removed to increase the first Career Skill from a 2-pt skill to a 3-pt skill
The Medtech reflects basic urban health care that a Laborer can figure out and pass on to their friends, while Unarmed Combat reflects the basic fights that Laborers can get into.
The Scrounge/Streetwise/Tinker reflects that a Laborer will attempt to use various pieces of junk to accomplish small goals, or the Laborer knowing who to talk to in order to accomplish a goal.
The other idea would be putting certain skills as preferences among the different Castes. I.e. the Merchant Caste package should Administration skill at 3, as keeping track of material is their job. Scientist and Technical Castes would have Administration 2, as they do need to know some administrative capability to get the right resources. Similarly, Technical Caste would start with the highest Computer Skill, as that is their purpose.
Before we go forward with this conversation, I have to know that you understand how Clan packages work. As some of your statements seem to show an pattern of thinking they work in a way that they don't.
Clan packages are the cost of all the skills in the package
Level Cost
1 1
2 3
3 6
4 10
Then the total cost is reduced by 1/3 so that the final cost is 2/3 (rounded up) of the total points in the package.
Example: Scientist Caste
Administration 3 (6), Computer 4 (10), Career/Any Science 3 (6), MedTech 3 (6) = 28 Total points
28 * 2/3 = 18.66666667 or 19
Page 25:
The Note at the end of the "Secret Warship/Insurgents Camps" has two cases of "Aramis" when it should be "Amaris"
Corrected ;), Also a note: The page numbers on my working copy (Publisher) are not the same as the Beta copy (PDF) as I have spaces for indexes/Credits/Missing entries/section expansion/works in progresses/Etc. So like you have done most of the time, table/section names are more helpful then page numbers.
Can you attach the updated proof to the original post (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/mechwarrior-second-edition-optional-rule/msg1777276/#msg1777276)?
As it is a project to create the PDF from the unfinished source file, I would prefer to limit the number of times I have to do it. But if it is necessary I can.
The Clans have a credit system that is reset every month so the Laborers have to work constantly since savings are not possible. Plus the Clan system is far more harsh, as Laborer Caste is 4 levels below Warrior. Imagine a PC that was a Knight trying to talk to a Duke and what would be involved. The Bad Reputation would work to cover all the social difficulties involved.
Again this is something I would add as an GMs option and not make a set part of the package.
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This is one of those areas that I did not create the Advantages (Title/Land Grant), they exist in the core rules already, I just expanded them. Anything of this level I would put in the appendix as an advanced option.
True, I see where the Viscount and Marquess ranks were removed in your table. From your table, it looks like the current annual incomes (and pts cost for it) are:
2 pts - Knight + Land Grant = 25,000 C-Bills
3 pts - Baronet + Land Grant = 50,000 C-Bills
4 pts - Baron + Land Grant = 100,000 C-Bills
5 pts - Count + Land Grant = 1,500,000 C-Bills
6 pts - Duke + Land Grant = 100,000,000 C-Bills
If you added back in the Viscount and Marquis noble ranks, that would change the middle of the chart to:
3 Baron 1,000 sq. km
4 Viscount 5,000 sq. km
5 Count 15,000 sq. km
6 Marquis 100,000 sq. km
7 Duke 500,000 sq. km
Which would change the incomes to:
4 pts - Baron + Land Grant = 100,000 C-Bills
5 pts - VisCount + Land Grant = 500,000 C-Bills
6 pts - Count + Land Grant = 1,500,000 C-Bills
7 pts - Marquis + Land Grant = 10,00,000 C-Bills
8 pts - Duke + Land Grant = 100,000,000 C-Bills
This reduces the income for 5 pts of Advantages from 1.5 million C-Bills to 500,000 C-Bills (2/3 reduction), and the 6 pt advantage would be reduced from 100M C-Bills to 1.5M C-Bills (98.5% reduction). At this point change I recommend removing the land area listing, and just providing the income for that Noble Rank.
Another change might be making the Land Grant cost more if it is granting a larger source of income. So a Land Grant for a Knight would cost 1 pt, a Land Grant for a Baronet would cost 2 pts, aso. Add a rule where a Land Grant point value cannot exceed the points value of the noble title (so no Knight with a Duke's Land Grant). This allows for a noble who only has the title and barely any money to support their family, giving the GM lots of potential as that character attempts to regain their family's financial status. If a character wants a low noble title and still receive lots of money, they would have to purchase the Income advantage.
The "Land Grant" advantage description would be changed to something like the following:
"A Land Grant is a formal name for a source of income and some surrounding land that has been granted to the noble character, where the noble is expected to protect the income source and attempt to improve it as well. This income source can be an ancient civilian fusion reactor that provides power to a city, a military factory that produces combat vehicles/equipment, an ore refinery station in an asteroid belt, a spaceport that handles industrial material, or a chunk of farmland of varying output per square kilometer. The surrounding land is often used to place supporting buildings and military strongpoints to defend the income source, and rarely serves as a source of income on its own. Examples of this would include the land around a fusion reactor being allocated to the family home/administration center, along with security checkpoints and rapid-response bunkers/turrets to prevent raiders from damaging the reactor. The player and GM should work together to help define what this source of income should be, attempting to fit the income stream to the character's personality and skills, plus what the GM has planned for the storyline."
The Marquis and Duke noble ranks would be unavailable at character creation.
1. Compulsion is not a Disadvantage by itself, it's a header for a group of disadvantages.
2. The chart for Psychosis is not a progression, you choose one when you take the 3 point Compulsion (Psychosis)
3. Obviously you don't smoke, I spend over 3,000 a year on cigarettes and I only smoke 1/2 a pack a day.
$3000/yr = $250/month, and if 1 C-Bill = $5(USD), then you had a 'debt' of 50 C-Bills per month.
The key issue in this base PDF is that the header format for the Compulsions is identical to the sub-categories, and it could make people think they are separate categories. One idea might be to change the headers to:
(2) Compulsion/Addiction:
(3) Compulsion/Psychosis:
(1) Compulsion/Quirk:
The Compulsion/Psychosis would also get a note of "Note: Listed as Psychosis/Type of Psychosis Example: Psychosis/Paranoia", similar to the other Compulsions
This lets players keep going through the disadvantages alphabetically, and lets them see that the three are semi-related.
I would go with a lot shallower progression on this one. I tend to follow the old RPG adage that if it's something you must have its overpowered.
I was basing the Income and Debt values off the Wealth advantage, which is:
1 pt - 5,000 C-Bills
2 pts - 50,000 C-Bills
3 pts - 500,000 C-Bills
Income is 1/100 these values, and Debt is 1/50 these values. I wanted the Income value to be easy to calculate, yet also take a long time to become equal to the initial chunk of cash from the Wealth advantage. Debt for a specific point value had to be higher than the Income value, so I just doubled the Income value. Should the amount for Debt be higher, and if so how much?
For numbers comparison, the 2-pt advantage of Knight + Land Grant provides 25,000 C-Bills per year, or about 2,000 C-Bills per month, compared to my 2-pt "Income" advantage of 500 C-Bills/month. The Noble advantage also has hidden advantages where the character can get into certain parties easier, but the Land Grant also has disadvantages where the PC needs to protect their land and respond to feudal duties. To me that means a 2-pt Debt cannot be higher than 2,000 C-Bills per month.
This seems ok until you take into account that a regulars level MechWarrior makes 1,500 a month with most other expenses covered (Food/Lodging/Transportation/Etc.). So for most character, this would seem like a free advantage point. And that's why I tend to avoid Disadvantages like this.
The Mechwarrior is also risking their primary source of income in every battle, so if they lose their Mech they still have the debt. Hope the player put a few points into non-Mech skills.
Before we go forward with this conversation, I have to know that you understand how Clan packages work. As some of your statements seem to show an pattern of thinking they work in a way that they don't.
Clan packages are the cost of all the skills in the package
Level Cost
1 1
2 3
3 6
4 10
Then the total cost is reduced by 1/3 so that the final cost is 2/3 (rounded up) of the total points in the package.
Example: Scientist Caste
Administration 3 (6), Computer 4 (10), Career/Any Science 3 (6), MedTech 3 (6) = 28 Total points
28 * 2/3 = 18.66666667 or 19
We are going from opposite directions. I was taking the package cost and multiplying it by 1.5 to get skill points provided, you were going with skill points provided and multiplying that by 2/3 to get package cost. A sneaky stunt might be to make sure the total cost of all the skills in a package is a multiple of 3, that way the cost of the package is an even number.
My concern is that for the Merchant/Scientist/Technician the total skill values might be too high. A Secondary Mechwarrior gets access to a package costing 12 skill pts and providing a total of 18 skill pts of skills:
Gunnery/Mech - 3 (3+2+1 = 6 skill pts)
Leadership - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Medtech - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Piloting/Mech - 2 pt (2+1 = 3 skill pts)
Small Arms - 2 pt (2+1 = 3 skill pts)
Survival - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Tactics - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Tech/Mech - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Unarmed Combat - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
(6+1+1+3+3+1+1+1+1 = 18 skill pts, in a package costing 12 pts.)
But the Merchant has a package costing 14 pts, the Technical Caste has a package costing 14 pts, and the Scientist Caste has a package costing 19 pts. As a comparison the existing Aerospace pilot and Elemental packages cost 16 pts each. The Laborer Caste package costing 5 pts to get 7 skill pts seems a bit small.
Corrected ;), Also a note: The page numbers on my working copy (Publisher) are not the same as the Beta copy (PDF) as I have spaces for indexes/Credits/Missing entries/section expansion/works in progresses/Etc. So like you have done most of the time, table/section names are more helpful then page numbers.
As it is a project to create the PDF from the unfinished source file, I would prefer to limit the number of times I have to do it. But if it is necessary I can.
Good point. I'll try to keep the section names in any corrections I find
Again this is something I would add as an GMs option and not make a set part of the package.
Sounds good
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No need for protos as far as I'm concerned.
not for me either
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True, I see where the Viscount and Marquess ranks were removed in your table. From your table, it looks like the current annual incomes (and pts cost for it) are:
2 pts - Knight + Land Grant = 25,000 C-Bills
3 pts - Baronet + Land Grant = 50,000 C-Bills
4 pts - Baron + Land Grant = 100,000 C-Bills
5 pts - Count + Land Grant = 1,500,000 C-Bills
6 pts - Duke + Land Grant = 100,000,000 C-Bills
If you added back in the Viscount and Marquis noble ranks, that would change the middle of the chart to:
3 Baron 1,000 sq. km
4 Viscount 5,000 sq. km
5 Count 15,000 sq. km
6 Marquis 100,000 sq. km
7 Duke 500,000 sq. km
Which would change the incomes to:
4 pts - Baron + Land Grant = 100,000 C-Bills
5 pts - VisCount + Land Grant = 500,000 C-Bills
6 pts - Count + Land Grant = 1,500,000 C-Bills
7 pts - Marquis + Land Grant = 10,00,000 C-Bills
8 pts - Duke + Land Grant = 100,000,000 C-Bills
This reduces the income for 5 pts of Advantages from 1.5 million C-Bills to 500,000 C-Bills (2/3 reduction), and the 6 pt advantage would be reduced from 100M C-Bills to 1.5M C-Bills (98.5% reduction). At this point change I recommend removing the land area listing, and just providing the income for that Noble Rank.
Another change might be making the Land Grant cost more if it is granting a larger source of income. So a Land Grant for a Knight would cost 1 pt, a Land Grant for a Baronet would cost 2 pts, aso. Add a rule where a Land Grant point value cannot exceed the points value of the noble title (so no Knight with a Duke's Land Grant). This allows for a noble who only has the title and barely any money to support their family, giving the GM lots of potential as that character attempts to regain their family's financial status. If a character wants a low noble title and still receive lots of money, they would have to purchase the Income advantage.
The "Land Grant" advantage description would be changed to something like the following:
"A Land Grant is a formal name for a source of income and some surrounding land that has been granted to the noble character, where the noble is expected to protect the income source and attempt to improve it as well. This income source can be an ancient civilian fusion reactor that provides power to a city, a military factory that produces combat vehicles/equipment, an ore refinery station in an asteroid belt, a spaceport that handles industrial material, or a chunk of farmland of varying output per square kilometer. The surrounding land is often used to place supporting buildings and military strongpoints to defend the income source, and rarely serves as a source of income on its own. Examples of this would include the land around a fusion reactor being allocated to the family home/administration center, along with security checkpoints and rapid-response bunkers/turrets to prevent raiders from damaging the reactor. The player and GM should work together to help define what this source of income should be, attempting to fit the income stream to the character's personality and skills, plus what the GM has planned for the storyline."
The Marquis and Duke noble ranks would be unavailable at character creation.
If its alright with you I would like to table this for now, as it looks like it may need more work then I am willing to put into one Advantage right now as I still have a whole book to finish work on that's only about 70% complete.
$3000/yr = $250/month, and if 1 C-Bill = $5(USD), then you had a 'debt' of 50 C-Bills per month.
The key issue in this base PDF is that the header format for the Compulsions is identical to the sub-categories, and it could make people think they are separate categories. One idea might be to change the headers to:
(2) Compulsion/Addiction:
(3) Compulsion/Psychosis:
(1) Compulsion/Quirk:
The Compulsion/Psychosis would also get a note of "Note: Listed as Psychosis/Type of Psychosis Example: Psychosis/Paranoia", similar to the other Compulsions
This lets players keep going through the disadvantages alphabetically, and lets them see that the three are semi-related.
Well thank you for finding another error in the book unintentionally. It seemed just like and earlier error, the text box in Publisher had been compressed by a table below it. I was wondering what the confusion with Psychosis was as I had put a note on all the Compulsion sub-disadvantages. It seems the the compression of the box had hidden the Note for Psychosis.
As for the Compulsion header for the section, it is now Bold and underlined, and has been centered above the description, so that should end any confusion that it was causing.
I was basing the Income and Debt values off the Wealth advantage, which is:
1 pt - 5,000 C-Bills
2 pts - 50,000 C-Bills
3 pts - 500,000 C-Bills
Income is 1/100 these values, and Debt is 1/50 these values. I wanted the Income value to be easy to calculate, yet also take a long time to become equal to the initial chunk of cash from the Wealth advantage. Debt for a specific point value had to be higher than the Income value, so I just doubled the Income value. Should the amount for Debt be higher, and if so how much?
For numbers comparison, the 2-pt advantage of Knight + Land Grant provides 25,000 C-Bills per year, or about 2,000 C-Bills per month, compared to my 2-pt "Income" advantage of 500 C-Bills/month. The Noble advantage also has hidden advantages where the character can get into certain parties easier, but the Land Grant also has disadvantages where the PC needs to protect their land and respond to feudal duties. To me that means a 2-pt Debt cannot be higher than 2,000 C-Bills per month.
The Mechwarrior is also risking their primary source of income in every battle, so if they lose their Mech they still have the debt. Hope the player put a few points into non-Mech skills.
Again I am not fond of the Income idea mainly because it has been tried before in a similar system (Shadowrun 2nd edition: Trust Fund) and became the go to advantage that every player would take. And as debt falls into the same realm (just the Disadvantage side) I am not a fan. This is another of the if you want to work out a fully fleshed out version I will be more then happy to added it to the appendix credited to you. The Appendix is starting to look like its going to be its own book. :)
We are going from opposite directions. I was taking the package cost and multiplying it by 1.5 to get skill points provided, you were going with skill points provided and multiplying that by 2/3 to get package cost. A sneaky stunt might be to make sure the total cost of all the skills in a package is a multiple of 3, that way the cost of the package is an even number.
My concern is that for the Merchant/Scientist/Technician the total skill values might be too high. A Secondary Mechwarrior gets access to a package costing 12 skill pts and providing a total of 18 skill pts of skills:
Gunnery/Mech - 3 (3+2+1 = 6 skill pts)
Leadership - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Medtech - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Piloting/Mech - 2 pt (2+1 = 3 skill pts)
Small Arms - 2 pt (2+1 = 3 skill pts)
Survival - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Tactics - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Tech/Mech - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
Unarmed Combat - 1 pt (1 = 1 skill pt)
(6+1+1+3+3+1+1+1+1 = 18 skill pts, in a package costing 12 pts.)
But the Merchant has a package costing 14 pts, the Technical Caste has a package costing 14 pts, and the Scientist Caste has a package costing 19 pts. As a comparison the existing Aerospace pilot and Elemental packages cost 16 pts each. The Laborer Caste package costing 5 pts to get 7 skill pts seems a bit small.
Ok, now I see were you are coming from. I don't agree but I see your points.
Here's how I look at it. While you are correct from a purely point based perspective that Secondary Warriors seem to get the short end of the stick. I kind of see it from the perspective that the Merchant, Technical, and the Scientist Caste still need to be good a what they do and the Clans, Love'em or Hate'em, are still going to make sure they are the best at what they do. And while they are lower caste, they are still for the most part made up of a good percentage of Trueborns. Secondary Warriors on the other hand are for the most part the Freeborn equivalent of the Primary Warrior or Trueborns that failed their first trial in some clans, so would not be that highly thought of in the first place. The only thing keeping them above the lower caste is the fact that they are warriors.
From a purely game perspective, I also don't want to discourage a PC that want to make a Tech or Scientist by setting their skill levels based on the arbitrary measure of keeping them below the combat characters.
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Ditto for me
not for me either
No need for protos as far as I'm concerned.
So, it looks like the nays have it. Unless I get a bunch of yeas out of nowhere.
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By request, here is beta version 1.1
Some notes on this version.
Rules marked in Blue are new to this version.
Rules marked in Red are either waiting for me to update them (MOS/FOS) or in dispute in their current form.
For items in Red, ideas are welcome if I have not put a temporary hold on them.
As note in my post to idea weenie, any refences to a section/rule/needed errata. needs to identify the section/chart/rule name as the Page number on my working draft are different.
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If its alright with you I would like to table this for now, as it looks like it may need more work then I am willing to put into one Advantage right now as I still have a whole book to finish work on that's only about 70% complete.
Sounds good
Well thank you for finding another error in the book unintentionally. It seemed just like and earlier error, the text box in Publisher had been compressed by a table below it. I was wondering what the confusion with Psychosis was as I had put a note on all the Compulsion sub-disadvantages. It seems the the compression of the box had hidden the Note for Psychosis.
As for the Compulsion header for the section, it is now Bold and underlined, and has been centered above the description, so that should end any confusion that it was causing.
It is centered and bolded, but in the attachment it looks like a completely different section
Again I am not fond of the Income idea mainly because it has been tried before in a similar system (Shadowrun 2nd edition: Trust Fund) and became the go to advantage that every player would take. And as debt falls into the same realm (just the Disadvantage side) I am not a fan. This is another of the if you want to work out a fully fleshed out version I will be more then happy to added it to the appendix credited to you. The Appendix is starting to look like its going to be its own book. :)
From the MW2e rulebook a character starts with 500 C-Bills, and Wealth is used to replace that starting cash with higher values. From there I figured having 8 years to make up the money would be good. For Debt I figured it would be a good way to steadily bleed a character, especially if they never get a Mech and have to make the 100 C-Bill payments every month. Character creation is fun, as we have the same rules to create an infantry trooper (issued ~50,000 C-Bills worth of gear) and a Mechwarrior (with a Mech worth ~2M C-Bills at the very least).
You also have the fun where a character can start with about 40 million C-Bills in Debt (Vehicle 4 for Dropship, 1 advantage point for a Dropship under 3 kilotons, and rolling a 4 on 2d6 to only owe 1/4 the current price of the 168 million C-Bill vessel). Even a 3-pt Debt of 10,000 C-Bills/month would need 16,800 months (1400 years) to even equal what that small debt on the Dropship is worth.
One idea would be to increase the Debt per point, where Debt is equal to 1/25 the appropriate Wealth value. Since a 2-pt Wealth advantage is equal to 50,000 C-Bills, that means a 2-pt Debt is the character needing to pay ~2000 C-Bills every month (and this is just the interest, not the principle). Since two points of Advantages (Knight + Land Grant) would pay ~2,000 C-Bills every month, this does balance out somewhat. Essentially the amount in the Debt will be equal to the amount in the appropriate Wealth advantage after 2 years.
Comparing my proposed Income Advantage, the existing Wealth advantage, and the income from a noble title and Land Grant we have:
| Points | Income | Wealth (starting funds) | Noble Title + Land Grant income |
| 1 | 600 C-Bills/year | 5,000 C-Bills | - |
| 2 | 6,000 C-Bills/year | 50,000 C-Bills | 25,000 C-Bills/year |
| 3 | 60,000 C-Bills/year | 500,000 C-Bills | 50,000 C-Bills/year |
The Knight noble title and Land Grant advantages would be equal to the Wealth advantage after 2 in-game years (Knight + Land Grant are 1 pt each). The Baronet and Land Grant would be enough to equal Wealth after 10 years.
The Income advantage only benefits the player if they expect the campaign to go on for over 8 in-game years. The Knight title with its Land Grant will be providing over four times as much money every year compared to an equal cost Income advantage, while the Baronet title and Land Grant provides about 16.7% less money per year than an equal costed Income advantage (though the nobility connections can make up for it).
Ok, now I see were you are coming from. I don't agree but I see your points.
Here's how I look at it. While you are correct from a purely point based perspective that Secondary Warriors seem to get the short end of the stick. I kind of see it from the perspective that the Merchant, Technical, and the Scientist Caste still need to be good a what they do and the Clans, Love'em or Hate'em, are still going to make sure they are the best at what they do. And while they are lower caste, they are still for the most part made up of a good percentage of Trueborns. Secondary Warriors on the other hand are for the most part the Freeborn equivalent of the Primary Warrior or Trueborns that failed their first trial in some clans, so would not be that highly thought of in the first place. The only thing keeping them above the lower caste is the fact that they are warriors.
From a purely game perspective, I also don't want to discourage a PC that want to make a Tech or Scientist by setting their skill levels based on the arbitrary measure of keeping them below the combat characters.
How about if the Science, Caste had 24-27 skill pts, and their packages cost 16-18 pts? A price list for the packages would be:
Pts - Role
20 - Primary Clan Warrior
18 - Scientist Caste
16 - Technician Caste/Clan Pilot/Clan Elemental/Jumpship Crew/Warship Crew
14 - Merchant Caste
12 - Secondary Clan Warrior/Clan Cavalry/Clan Standard Infantry
8 - Labor Caste (proposed below)
5 - Laborer Caste (existing in the PDF)
For Labor Caste, I'd suggest to make their skill package to have at least 12 skill pts (costing 8 pts) and consist of the following skills:
Bureaucracy: 1 pt
Career/Any: 3 pts (can be swapped for two Career/Any at 2 pts each)
Computer: 1 pt
Drive/Any: 1 pt
Pick 3 from the following list at 1 pt each (or pick only one of them and convert any skill from this package that is at 1 pt into a skill that is 2 pts):
Career/Any, Medtech, Scrounge, Streetwise, Survival, Tinker
The four fixed skills seemed appropriate to a basic Laborer who has to do a decent job or two, and only needs to know the basics around Clan bureaucracy, only needs to be able to access a computer to show what credits they have available, and at best will drive on well-regulated streets. The Pick-3 skill list allows for some variety, but there is still a lack of combat-related skills.
The current Labor Caste setup in "New Clan Career Packages", "Clan Caste Packages" provides 7 skill pts (costing 7*2/3 = 5 skill pts) and has the following skills/pts:
Administration - 2
Drive/Ground - 2
Career/Any - 1
Administration covers running a landhold, while a starting Laborer would be more likely to deal with bureaucrats and have to work within their rules. Clan reduction of waste means they would not want to make the Laborer's job inefficient, so would likely have a basic automated system for the Laborers to use.
The Drive/Ground means they are decent at driving vehicles around
Career/Any at one point means this Laborer is just starting out in their field of work.
The different Castes would be representative of a brand new person starting out, so Administration should almost never be a higher value. Merchant Caste should be primarily Appraisal, Bureaucracy, and Negotiation (a point of Administration lets them handle end-of-day bookkeeping in accordance with standard accounting practices). Scientist Caste would focus on Career (or Medtech) and likely Perception, with reduced Computer skills. A Technician caste would be the ones with the highest Computer skills, and would use either Technician or Communications skills.
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I'll take a closer look this weekend as it's been a LONG week already. Probably Sunday after I've almost caught up on sleep...
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It is centered and bolded, but in the attachment it looks like a completely different section
:facepalm:
From the MW2e rulebook a character starts with 500 C-Bills, and Wealth is used to replace that starting cash with higher values. From there I figured having 8 years to make up the money would be good. For Debt I figured it would be a good way to steadily bleed a character, especially if they never get a Mech and have to make the 100 C-Bill payments every month. Character creation is fun, as we have the same rules to create an infantry trooper (issued ~50,000 C-Bills worth of gear) and a Mechwarrior (with a Mech worth ~2M C-Bills at the very least).
The issues with using wealth as a measure is that is can represent moneys from many different sources.
You also have the fun where a character can start with about 40 million C-Bills in Debt (Vehicle 4 for Dropship, 1 advantage point for a Dropship under 3 kilotons, and rolling a 4 on 2d6 to only owe 1/4 the current price of the 168 million C-Bill vessel). Even a 3-pt Debt of 10,000 C-Bills/month would need 16,800 months (1400 years) to even equal what that small debt on the Dropship is worth.
The main thing here is that a Dropship is a tangible resource that you gain from incurring the debt. Debt as a Independent Disadvantage is just money you owe because you owe it. Overall, I don't see the purpose of adding a Disadvantage for Disadvantage sake.
One idea would be to increase the Debt per point, where Debt is equal to 1/25 the appropriate Wealth value. Since a 2-pt Wealth advantage is equal to 50,000 C-Bills, that means a 2-pt Debt is the character needing to pay ~2000 C-Bills every month (and this is just the interest, not the principle). Since two points of Advantages (Knight + Land Grant) would pay ~2,000 C-Bills every month, this does balance out somewhat. Essentially the amount in the Debt will be equal to the amount in the appropriate Wealth advantage after 2 years.
Again we are dealing with A tangible item (Title/Land) verses and intangible item (Debt for Debt sake).
Comparing my proposed Income Advantage, the existing Wealth advantage, and the income from a noble title and Land Grant we have:
| Points | Income | Wealth (starting funds) | Noble Title + Land Grant income |
| 1 | 600 C-Bills/year | 5,000 C-Bills | - |
| 2 | 6,000 C-Bills/year | 50,000 C-Bills | 25,000 C-Bills/year |
| 3 | 60,000 C-Bills/year | 500,000 C-Bills | 50,000 C-Bills/year |
Like above wealth is money that you got from some source pregame that is finite. Land Grant requires both a title and this advantage, and that you take care of and protect the land. Income is again just some side money continue to get. To me this is just as easily handled by the PC and GM coming to some agreement that the PC works in their off-time and the GM setting a reasonable salary when the PC actually does the work.
The Knight noble title and Land Grant advantages would be equal to the Wealth advantage after 2 in-game years (Knight + Land Grant are 1 pt each). The Baronet and Land Grant would be enough to equal Wealth after 10 years.
See above.
The Income advantage only benefits the player if they expect the campaign to go on for over 8 in-game years. The Knight title with its Land Grant will be providing over four times as much money every year compared to an equal cost Income advantage, while the Baronet title and Land Grant provides about 16.7% less money per year than an equal costed Income advantage (though the nobility connections can make up for it).
See above.
How about if the Science, Caste had 24-27 skill pts, and their packages cost 16-18 pts? A price list for the packages would be:
Pts - Role
20 - Primary Clan Warrior
18 - Scientist Caste
16 - Technician Caste/Clan Pilot/Clan Elemental/Jumpship Crew/Warship Crew
14 - Merchant Caste
12 - Secondary Clan Warrior/Clan Cavalry/Clan Standard Infantry
8 - Labor Caste (proposed below)
5 - Laborer Caste (existing in the PDF)
For Labor Caste, I'd suggest to make their skill package to have at least 12 skill pts (costing 8 pts) and consist of the following skills:
Bureaucracy: 1 pt
Career/Any: 3 pts (can be swapped for two Career/Any at 2 pts each)
Computer: 1 pt
Drive/Any: 1 pt
Pick 3 from the following list at 1 pt each (or pick only one of them and convert any skill from this package that is at 1 pt into a skill that is 2 pts):
Career/Any, Medtech, Scrounge, Streetwise, Survival, Tinker
The four fixed skills seemed appropriate to a basic Laborer who has to do a decent job or two, and only needs to know the basics around Clan bureaucracy, only needs to be able to access a computer to show what credits they have available, and at best will drive on well-regulated streets. The Pick-3 skill list allows for some variety, but there is still a lack of combat-related skills.
The current Labor Caste setup in "New Clan Career Packages", "Clan Caste Packages" provides 7 skill pts (costing 7*2/3 = 5 skill pts) and has the following skills/pts:
Administration - 2
Drive/Ground - 2
Career/Any - 1
Administration covers running a landhold, while a starting Laborer would be more likely to deal with bureaucrats and have to work within their rules. Clan reduction of waste means they would not want to make the Laborer's job inefficient, so would likely have a basic automated system for the Laborers to use.
The Drive/Ground means they are decent at driving vehicles around
Career/Any at one point means this Laborer is just starting out in their field of work.
The different Castes would be representative of a brand new person starting out, so Administration should almost never be a higher value. Merchant Caste should be primarily Appraisal, Bureaucracy, and Negotiation (a point of Administration lets them handle end-of-day bookkeeping in accordance with standard accounting practices). Scientist Caste would focus on Career (or Medtech) and likely Perception, with reduced Computer skills. A Technician caste would be the ones with the highest Computer skills, and would use either Technician or Communications skills.
Some good points I will have to reevaluate some of the Packages.
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Ok, here's my initial shot at "Stage 4" packages. Looking at your other packages, it seems +2 (non-combat) skill points is about the right target.
I'll get the most controversial one out of the way first:
Tour of Duty (Front Line)
+1 Combat skill from the character's MOS/FOS
-1 Compulsion or Lost Limb/Poor Hearing/Poor Vision
Note: When repeating this package, a different Combat skill must be chosen each time, and the value of the Disadvantage increases (i.e., it's -2 the second time, -3 the third, etc.)
Tour of Duty (Cadre)
+1 Leadership, +1 Training
Tour of Duty (Garrison)
+1 Administration, +1 Bureaucracy
Tour of Duty (Mercenary Liaison)
+1 Bureaucracy/Mercenary, +1 Negotiation
Tour of Duty (Guerilla)
+1 Perception, +1 Stealth
Tour of Duty (Staff)
+1 Bureaucracy, +1 Strategy
Tour of Duty (Attaché)
+1 Perception, +1 Protocol (other than your own affiliation)
Tour of Duty (Spacer)
+1 Career/Ship's Crew, +1 Zero-G Operations
Merchant Marine
+1 Administration, +1 Zero-G Operations
Civilian Job
+1 Bureaucracy, +1 Career Skill
Travel
+1 SI/Any, +1 Zero-G Operations
Espionage
+1 Acting, +1 Perception
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Ok, here's my initial shot at "Stage 4" packages. Looking at your other packages, it seems +2 (non-combat) skill points is about the right target.
I'll get the most controversial one out of the way first:
Tour of Duty (Front Line)
+1 Combat skill from the character's MOS/FOS
-1 Compulsion or Lost Limb/Poor Hearing/Poor Vision
Note: When repeating this package, a different Combat skill must be chosen each time, and the value of the Disadvantage increases (i.e., it's -2 the second time, -3 the third, etc.)
Tour of Duty (Cadre)
+1 Leadership, +1 Training
Tour of Duty (Garrison)
+1 Administration, +1 Bureaucracy
Tour of Duty (Mercenary Liaison)
+1 Bureaucracy/Mercenary, +1 Negotiation
Tour of Duty (Guerilla)
+1 Perception, +1 Stealth
Tour of Duty (Staff)
+1 Bureaucracy, +1 Strategy
Tour of Duty (Attaché)
+1 Perception, +1 Protocol (other than your own affiliation)
Tour of Duty (Spacer)
+1 Career/Ship's Crew, +1 Zero-G Operations
Merchant Marine
+1 Administration, +1 Zero-G Operations
Civilian Job
+1 Bureaucracy, +1 Career Skill
Travel
+1 SI/Any, +1 Zero-G Operations
Espionage
+1 Acting, +1 Perception
The Problem I see is that +1 AP or Skill Point for most of these skills is not going to do much or even make the effort worth it on most skills.
While I would not go much higher you run into the problem that the system in question (MW2) does not really have a liner progression or a single XP resource.
So taking into account that most skills that the PC is good at are going to be in the 3-4 range that means you are going to need to gain either 4 or 5 AP just to go up one level and 5 or 6 more two get a second for a total of 9 to 11 AP to get anywhere with this system. There is also the problem of lack of Skill Point (needing 10 per level gained) which would kick this number up dramatically. Bring the total AP needed to between 18 to 22.
You can't just raise a skill by +1 in this game as there are to many factors involved.
Now if you forgo this and stick with the Character creation numbers, which as this is really supposed to be post character development I would not do, you still run into the 4 to 5 skill cost.
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Ah, I was just trying to follow the model you had for the other packages. What should a package be worth?
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Ah, I was just trying to follow the model you had for the other packages. What should a package be worth?
Well you have found the other issues with a Stage 4 in MW2.
1. You have to make it a even gain for everyone. Like the Backgrounds that used a set point value or the Affiliations that used what the players paid in Priority points.
2. it needs to have some form of cost if you go outside of this.
3. It needs to be a fair tradeoff if you don't decide to take it or you don't decide to take it.
But if you are serious about creating a Stage 4 package I would follow these rules in some way
1. Make one pass worth about the same as one adventure plus one downtime (Skill points and AP)
2. Give an equal amount of Disadvantages to this number, the formula come out to about 4 AP = 1 disadvantage point
3. I would go with a generic point pool with suggested skills and Disadvantages to give the players options.
4. All of these should be mindful of the starting character limits on skills.
5. Each should have a pass limit to keep players from going crazy with it.
So with this in mind an example would be
Merchant Marine (limit 2)
Time: one year to players age.
AP: Character gains 3 AP
Skill points: gain skill points equal to LRN + roll on chart
Skills Allowed: Zero-G Operations, Negotiation, Electives, Appraisal, Bureaucracy/Any, Piloting/Spacecraft, Communications/Conventional, Scrounge
Disadvantages: Gain one point in: Bad Reputation, Compulsion, Enemy, Poor Hearing, Poverty
generic Event chart
2D6 Effect
2 0 SP/-1 AP
3-4 1 SP/0 AP
5-9 2 SP/0 AP
10-11 3 SP/1 AP
12 4 SP/1 AP
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Ah, ok... I was sort of going that direction with the Front Line Tour of Duty. I'll give it some more thought. At the moment, I need to run to the Commissary...
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Ah, ok... I was sort of going that direction with the Front Line Tour of Duty. I'll give it some more thought. At the moment, I need to run to the Commissary...
"Commissary..."What branch of the service are you in?
Ex-Air Force myself
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Navy for 35 more months and three weeks...
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Navy for 35 more months and three weeks...
at least you're not down to the counting of hours yet.
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I'll probably be down to that around 40 days out... 8)
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Beta 1.2 update
Work is proceeding well on this update. Below is a list of changes and additions that will make the next beta. (Errata included but not listed)
1. New Title and Bloodname changes. Titles have been expanded and reduced at the same time. There a new title levels but some of the higher levels have been dropped. Also added yearly income to the table.
Bloodname cost have also been changed to reflect that the advantage only gives you the lineage and not the Bloodname itself. Due to this the new table starts at zero to represent an unclaimed non-exclusive Bloodname. A new table has also been added at the end of the chapter listing all the Bloodnames and their cost in the system. Just to be clear, none of this is official, it is just a best guess on where the Bloodname fits into the point costs.
2. MOS and FOS have been expanded and updated. This included adding Computer skills to the MechWarrior and Aerospace pilot MOSs to fall in line with the Integration rules in the MechWarrior Companion. Adding a hybrid LAM pilot MOS/FOS package. Adding an Anti-Mech infantry FOS requiring the Infantry MOS. Some new Faction specific Special Forces IOSs .
3. A Character Creation Step-by-Step using the optional rules to better layout the path to completion.
4. (Planned) Previous experience rules (By Request (Daryk)). I have the major ideas worked out in my head, I will see if I can get then into something resembling coherent thoughts on paper by the time 1.2 hits the forum.
5. (pending) First run at Book two information. Thing to expect.
a) Tactical Armor Rules
b) New updated and adapted Battle Armor stats.
c) Full weapons list Small arms/Support weapons/Explosive table/Weapon add-ons
d) First draft of the expanded Battletech Integration rules (MechWarrior Companion required to use)
A lot is coming in this update, I expect to have it up by the end of the weekend.
Now on to another subject.
There have been at least 9 downloads of the original and 4 of the latest update, but I have received very little in the way of errata or rule Questions/Ideas (A side from idea weenie/Daryk). Please if you have issues address them here, as if I do not receive them I can not address or fix them. If I don't receive any that are not corrected by the time I release the final draft I will assume the draft is prefect and move on to other projects.
thank you all for the support.
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Thanks for the update! I look forward to your take on previous experience, and will hold off on any other input on that until you post it. :thumbsup:
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I will be honest I have been very busy gearing up for thanksgiving at work
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I will be honest I have been very busy gearing up for thanksgiving at work
I can understand that.
The final draft will probably not be for a while so there is time.
Just trying to make in clear that if people don't speak up, I will not be able to read their minds and fix issues I don't know about.
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Update 1.2.1
Here it is and here are some warnings
1. Book two is highly unorganized.
2. Previous experience is more like a alpha.
3. New or Updated rules are in Blue
Please leave feedback.
As I cannot load it on the site here is the link to the Dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/s/855nh8mnl4z30yt/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20Character%20optional%20rules%20book%20one%20and%20two%20v1.2.1.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/855nh8mnl4z30yt/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20Character%20optional%20rules%20book%20one%20and%20two%20v1.2.1.pdf?dl=0)
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Advantages/Disadvantages -> Land Grant
For the current version, for the Land Grant, I'd suggest dropping the land area completely. From the original MW2e physical book -> Titles & Nobility -> Landholdings -> Holdings (p156) -> 2nd paragraph, starting with the second sentence:
"Holdings vary in scope and value. The Duke of Omaha directly controls only a few thousand square kilometers of Newbraska's northern continent, but those holdings include the capital of one of the most important grain-producing agricultural worlds in the Federated Suns. The Duchy of Fenestere, on the other hand, includes five star systems with a total of 18 planets. Only one of these - a tide-locked, thin-aired, Low-G, fire-and-ice expanse of desert and glaciers - is even marginally inhabitable."
So I would recommend dropping the land area and just including a sentence that the player and GM should figure something out that seems appropriate to generate that level of annul income for the player.
The other idea would be changing the incomes to the following:
Knight - 25,000 C-Bills/yr (no change)
Baronet - 50,000 C-Bills/yr (no change)
Baron - 150,000 C-Bills/yr (50% boost)
Viscount - 600,000 C-Bills/yr (20% boost)
Count - 3,000,000 C-Bills/yr (100% boost)
(Based on the ratios above, players can likely figure what the income would be for Marquess and Duke)
For "New Clan Career Packages", the Merchant Caste seems primarily focused around Piloting Spacecraft (since it is the highest skill level). Suggest changing the following skills to the following values:
Appraisal: 2 -> 3
Bureaucracy/Clans: 1 -> 2
Computer: 0 -> 2
Gunnery/Spacecraft: 1 -> 0 (this is what Warship crews are for)
Piloting/Spacecraft: 3 -> 0 (Piloting a spacecraft is what Jumpship/Warship crews are for)
Zero-G Operations: 1 -> 0 (this is what Jumpship/Warship crews are for)
This results in someone who has their highest skill levels in Appraisal, with secondaries in Bureaucracy (Clans), Computer, Negotiation, and scrounge.
For Scientist Case, they appear primarily focused around using Computers (the highest skill level). I'd recommend the following set instead:
Administration: 1 -> 2
Computer: 4 -> 2
Career/Any Science: 2 -> 4
Career/Any Science: 0 -> 2
Career/Any Science: 0 -> 2
Medtech: 3 -> 0
Training: 2 -> 1
Add a note that Medtech can be swapped out for any of the Career/Any Science, so you could have a Scientist/Doctor that had Medtech 4, and two other Career (any Science) at 2 each. You could also have a Scientist/Cybernetics developer who has Career(Cybernetics) at 4 with Medtech @ 2, and another Career(Nursing) at 2.
The above result is someone who has been heavily trained in one career of their choice, has two other careers they can fall back on, is a little better at running a research base, can do slightly more complex stuff with computers than a Laborer (if a Scientist needs a better computer interface, they get a Technician to do it), but is not yet fully skilled in Training others.
Technical Caste: I'd only want to drop one of the Tech/Any @ 1 for Bureaucracy/Clans @ 1. This lets them pick up their work assignments, figure out what needs to be done, and get to talk to the right people to make sure they can use what was developed.
Book 2: Equipment, I'll work in another post. Though I will say Equipment Ratings -> Tech Level -> Chart -> TL 1 -> Description:
"Requires per-20th century"
change to:
"requires pre-20th century"
How does the 4 tech levels listed compare with the USIIR (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Universal_Socio-Industrial_Level_Rating) "Technological Sophistication"?
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Advantages/Disadvantages -> Land Grant
For the current version, for the Land Grant, I'd suggest dropping the land area completely. From the original MW2e physical book -> Titles & Nobility -> Landholdings -> Holdings (p156) -> 2nd paragraph, starting with the second sentence:
"Holdings vary in scope and value. The Duke of Omaha directly controls only a few thousand square kilometers of Newbraska's northern continent, but those holdings include the capital of one of the most important grain-producing agricultural worlds in the Federated Suns. The Duchy of Fenestere, on the other hand, includes five star systems with a total of 18 planets. Only one of these - a tide-locked, thin-aired, Low-G, fire-and-ice expanse of desert and glaciers - is even marginally inhabitable."
So I would recommend dropping the land area and just including a sentence that the player and GM should figure something out that seems appropriate to generate that level of annul income for the player.
The other idea would be changing the incomes to the following:
Knight - 25,000 C-Bills/yr (no change)
Baronet - 50,000 C-Bills/yr (no change)
Baron - 150,000 C-Bills/yr (50% boost)
Viscount - 600,000 C-Bills/yr (20% boost)
Count - 3,000,000 C-Bills/yr (100% boost)
(Based on the ratios above, players can likely figure what the income would be for Marquess and Duke)
For "New Clan Career Packages", the Merchant Caste seems primarily focused around Piloting Spacecraft (since it is the highest skill level). Suggest changing the following skills to the following values:
Appraisal: 2 -> 3
Bureaucracy/Clans: 1 -> 2
Computer: 0 -> 2
Gunnery/Spacecraft: 1 -> 0 (this is what Warship crews are for)
Piloting/Spacecraft: 3 -> 0 (Piloting a spacecraft is what Jumpship/Warship crews are for)
Zero-G Operations: 1 -> 0 (this is what Jumpship/Warship crews are for)
This results in someone who has their highest skill levels in Appraisal, with secondaries in Bureaucracy (Clans), Computer, Negotiation, and scrounge.
For Scientist Case, they appear primarily focused around using Computers (the highest skill level). I'd recommend the following set instead:
Administration: 1 -> 2
Computer: 4 -> 2
Career/Any Science: 2 -> 4
Career/Any Science: 0 -> 2
Career/Any Science: 0 -> 2
Medtech: 3 -> 0
Training: 2 -> 1
Add a note that Medtech can be swapped out for any of the Career/Any Science, so you could have a Scientist/Doctor that had Medtech 4, and two other Career (any Science) at 2 each. You could also have a Scientist/Cybernetics developer who has Career(Cybernetics) at 4 with Medtech @ 2, and another Career(Nursing) at 2.
The above result is someone who has been heavily trained in one career of their choice, has two other careers they can fall back on, is a little better at running a research base, can do slightly more complex stuff with computers than a Laborer (if a Scientist needs a better computer interface, they get a Technician to do it), but is not yet fully skilled in Training others.
Technical Caste: I'd only want to drop one of the Tech/Any @ 1 for Bureaucracy/Clans @ 1. This lets them pick up their work assignments, figure out what needs to be done, and get to talk to the right people to make sure they can use what was developed.
Book 2: Equipment, I'll work in another post. Though I will say Equipment Ratings -> Tech Level -> Chart -> TL 1 -> Description:
"Requires per-20th century"
change to:
"requires pre-20th century"
How does the 4 tech levels listed compare with the USIIR (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Universal_Socio-Industrial_Level_Rating) "Technological Sophistication"?
The new Caste packages are for the most part (except labor) directly out of the book (MechWarrior Companion Archetypes)
Other will errata will be entered.
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Wow! That is a lot of new stuff to read! :thumbsup:
I've only skimmed it so far, but would ask you to check out my Power Packs (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/power-packs/) thread. I tried to get similar style packs to have the same power density, instead of privileging micros to the point they're the only thing that makes sense to carry for troops using energy weapons.
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The new Caste packages are for the most part (except labor) directly out of the book (MechWarrior Companion Archetypes)
Other will errata will be entered.
I'd say if we are making a new book, that we go ahead and change the packages. We bring in the original items, see if they make sense, and if not we go ahead and change them. We can add a note that the values were changed from the appropriate books to better balance against each other and reflect changed opinions, but that GMs can choose which they wish to use in their own games.
For the Power Packs, Daryk's link seems best. Here is a list of the various Power Packs in the existing document, their power density (Power points per gram), and their cost:
| Power Pack | Power Points | Mass in kg | Power Density (PP/kg) | Cost in C-Blls | C-Bills/PP |
| Standard | 20 | .25 | 80 | 5 | .25 |
| Standard, Micro | 15 | .015 | 1000 | 10 | .667 |
| Standard, Military | 200 | 4 | 50 | 40 | .2 |
| Standard, Satchel | 100 | 2 | 50 | 20 | .2 |
| Quick-Charge | 10 | .3 | 33.33 | 10 | 1 |
| Quick-Charge, Micro | 10 | .02 | 500 | 20 | 2 |
| Quick-Charge, Military | 100 | .02 | 5000 | 80 | .8 |
| Quick-Charge, Satchel | 50 | 3 | 16.67 | 40 | .8 |
| High-Capacity | 30 | .3 | 100 | 15 | .5 |
| High-Capacity, Micro | 20 | .02 | 1000 | 30 | 1.5 |
| High-Capacity, Military | 300 | 6 | 50 | 120 | .4 |
| High-Capacity, Satchel | 150 | 3 | 50 | 60 | .4 |
| Clan | (not listed) | .275 | (no numbers) | 25 | (no numbers) |
| Clan, Micro (out of order) | 20 | .015 | 1333 | 50 | 2.5 |
| Clan, Military (out of order) | 300 | 5 | 60 | 200 | .667 |
| Clan, Satchel | 150 | 2.5 | 60 | 100 | .667 |
| Portable Power Unit | 80 | 2 | 40 | 10 | .125 |
| Support PPC Power Unit | 1500 | 25 | 60 | 750 | .5 |
We can see above that in terms of power density that certain Power Packs are far better than the others (Standard Micro, High-Capacity Micro, Military Quick-charge, and Clan Micro). I propose that we either go with Daryk's Power Pack rules, or we re-balance the standard Power Packs then make the other versions (Quick-charge, High-Capacity, and Clan) as multipliers of the base versions.
For example:
Quick-Charge: 3/4 capacity, double recharge rate, 3* the price of equivalent Standard Power Pack
High-Capacity: 1.5* capacity, slow recharge rate, 4* the price of equivalent Standard Power Pack
Clan: 1.25* power capacity, double recharge rate, 5* the price of equivalent Standard Power Pack
(I am not changing the mass so the power packs of the same size can be easily changed out with each other)
We should also drop the power demands for the smaller pieces of equipment so the batteries can last longer, while increasing the power demands for the larger weapons. For example, in the Weapons section, the Support Particle Cannon uses 10 PPS, which I think is 10 Power per Shot. If one Power Point equals one Power Point, that means a Quick-Charge Micro (weighting 20 grams) can provide enough power for one shot from the Support Particle Cannon.
Armor:
Flak Armor: There is no reason to take the Short/Skirt/Kilt version of Flak Armor instead of the Pants version of Flak armor. The Pants version provides 5 more pts of armor, costs 25 C-Bills less, and there is no difference in bonuses. We will need to change the official version to something that makes sense. There is also no mention of weight for any of the armors.
Battlearmor Expansion Rules -> Tactical Armor Optional Rules -> Tactical Armor to Damage Capacity Chart
It looks like you just multiply the Tactical Armor by 15 to get the Damage Capacity. Similarly, you take the current Damage Capacity, divide by 15, FRD, to get the Tactical Armor value.
Or add a note where you can choose to keep track of Tactical Armor capacity instead of Damage Capacity, and if a Battlemech-scale vehicle has less than 15 Tactical Armor remaining, that unit (or part of that unit) is destroyed.
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Thanks Idea Weenie! :thumbsup:
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Thanks Idea Weenie! :thumbsup:
Off-hand, one idea for rebalancing would change the values as follows for the standard power packs:
| Power Pack | Power Points | Mass in kg | Power Density (PP/kg) | Cost in C-Bills | C-Bills/PP |
| Standard | 20 | 0.4 | 50 | 5 | 0.25 |
| Standard, Micro | 1 | 0.025 | 40 | 1 | 1 |
| Standard, Military | 180 | 3 | 60 | 60 | 0.333 |
| Standard, Satchel | 350 | 5 | 70 | 70 | 0.2 |
A Standard Power pack is about the weight of a pistol clip, a Micro power pack is about the same weight as a AA battery, a Military power pack is about the weight of the M249 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) ammo box, and the Satchel power pack is for people who need plenty of power for some odd reason (i.e. technicians doing a cold start of a Mech's main computer, or people who want their Noteputer (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Noteputer) to have more endurance than the Energizer cell phone (https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/2/26/18241117/energizer-power-max-p18k-pop-huge-battery-phone-mwc-2019)).
To reflect the Military Power pack's highest cost per Power Capacity, we could give it a bonus when it comes to reconnecting a power pack during bad weather. So other people would need to change out their power packs in relatively dry/clean conditions, while the military power pack can handle mud inside the connectors without a problem (one of the real-life tests is to actually unplug a power/data connection, put a drop of water on the contacts, close the connection back up, and see if it can still provide power/data correctly).
Another real-life comparison would be the 50 Amp-hour battery pack from Krusale at roughly 11 ounces or about 310 grams. The Standard Power pack from the MW2e book is about 28% heavier (400 grams vs 311 grams).
The Quick-charge Micro power pack will not work with the above numbers because it is impossible to get less than a point of power, so it will have to have its cost raised more since its capacity cannot be lowered.
To compare the above power pack amounts, here are some power demands for various energy-using weapons from the updated rules (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/mechwarrior-second-edition-optional-rule/180/?action=post;quote=1782257;last_msg=1782257). The first energy weapons I saw started on page 57. They are here:
Weapon - Power per Shot @ damage
Pistols
Laser Pistol - 2 @ 4d6
Blazer Pistol - 8 @ 3d6*2
ER Laser Pistol - 3 @ 4d6
Hold-out Laser Pistol - 3 @ 2d6 (if this can be dropped to 1 power point, it would be a good use for the Micro Power Pack, giving this weapon a single shot)
Nakijama Hand Laser - 1 @ 3d6
Nova Laser Pistol - 10 @ 6d6+4
Sunbeam Laser Pistol - 4 @ 4d6
Pulse Laser Pistol - 2 @ 3d6
Clan Pulse Laser Pistol - 3 @ 4d6
Rifles
Laser Rifle - 5 @ 4d6+2
Laser Rifle (Maxell PL-10) - 9 @ 3d6+4
Blazer Rifle - 10 @ (4d6+2)*2
Mark XX Laser Rifle - 6 @ 3d6+4
Ebony Assault Rifle (Std mode) - 8 @ 3d6+2
Ebony Assault Rifle (High-Power mode) - 12 @ 4d6+4
Ebony Assault Rifle (ER mode) - 4 @ 2d6
Intek Laser Rifle - 2 @ 2d6+2
Magna Laser Rifle - 5 @ 5d6
M61A Combat System - 5 @ 4d6+2
Mauser 960 - 2 @ 3d6+3
Mauser 1200 LSS - 5 @ 4d6+2
Mauser IIC - 5 @ 5d6+2
ER Laser Rifle - 5 @ 4d6+2
Clan Pulse Laser Rifle - 5 @ 4d6
Pulse Laser Rifle - 4 @ 3d6+2
Starfire ER Laser Rifle - 6 @ 3d6+2
Variable-Pulse Laser Rifle - 5 @ 4d6
Gauss Weapons
Gauss Pistol - 1 @ 4d6+2
Gauss Rifle (Thunderstroke) - 2 @ 4d6+9
Gauss Rifle (Thunderstroke II) - 1 @ 4d6+9
Gauss Submachine Gun - 1 @ 4d6+2
Support Weapons
Hellebore Assault Laser - 10 @ 8d6+8
Support Laser - 10 @ 8d6+12
Support Laser, Semi-Portable - 7 @ 7d6+12
ER Support Laser (non-Clan) - 15 @ 8d6+12
ER Support Laser (Clan) - 15 @ 10d6+12
ER Support Laser (Clan, Semi-Portable) - 10 @ 8d6+12
Heavy Support Laser - 20 @ 10d6+12
Support Pulse Laser - 7 @ 5d6+12
Semi-Portable Support Pulse Laser - 6 @ 4d6+12
Semi-Portable Particle Cannon - 6 @ 5d6+9
Support Particle Cannon - 10 @ 10d6+8
Man-Portable Plasma Rifle - 5 @ 5d6
Light (Man-Portable) TAG - 5 power per turn to shine a laser on a target ???
Snub-Nose Support PPC - 10 @ 10d6+8
Grand Mauler Gauss Cannon - 6 @ 5d6+17
David Gauss Rifle - 8 @ 5d6+8
King David Gauss Rifle - 8 @ 5d6+12
Magshot Gauss Rifle - 3 @ 7d6+14
Tsunami Heavy Gauss Rifle - 8 @ 6d6+14
With the above list, people can compare the Military Power Pack's storage of 180 power with any of the above weapons, to get an idea of how many shots the Military Power Pack would provide for that weapon.
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I think a lot of the difference comes from the charging time of the difference packs.
That said I may come back to this later if I have time, but charging the way power packs work in the BattleTech universe is a very low priority at this time.
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Not an Update presa
Had a really hard week at work though there where some upsides (possible promotion to management), so I most likely will not have anything up this weekend(depends if I feel up to it). That said I will probably get some work done later this weekend but nothing worth posting.
As for the power pack issue as I stated I am not against the idea, but changing the way they work when it is established and confirmed in all current and past versions of the is a little beyond this document.
If their is enough of a call for it I would not be against (as stated before) adding it to the appendix at the end of the book as and optional setting rule if Daryk willing to put together a Work format document to be added.
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Do you mean Word document? If so, easy day! :thumbsup:
And congrats on the possible promotion! Not that it will mean easier anything at work... ^-^
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Had a really hard week at work though there where some upsides (possible promotion to management), so I most likely will not have anything up this weekend(depends if I feel up to it). That said I will probably get some work done later this weekend but nothing worth posting.
Congratulations! Your promotion will involve much more work, much more responsibility, slightly higher pay, and a desk one inch wider than it was before.
As for the power pack issue as I stated I am not against the idea, but changing the way they work when it is established and confirmed in all current and past versions of the is a little beyond this document.
If their is enough of a call for it I would not be against (as stated before) adding it to the appendix at the end of the book as and optional setting rule if Daryk willing to put together a Work format document to be added.
My (and Daryk's) main reason for wanting to rebalance the power packs is that currently there is little reason to take anything other than the Military Quick-Charge Pack or an array of the Micro Power Packs. The Quick-Charge Military Power Pack provides far more power per unit weight (5000/kg), though this could be due to the fact that the Mechwarrior Companion page 86 listing its weight as 6 kg, vs your document listing it as 15 grams. If you changed the document to be the same as the official source, that would make the Quick-Charge Military Power Pack have a power density of 16.67 instead of 5000.
Currently a trooper wanting an energy-based loadout, carrying a basic Laser Rifle that uses 5 pts of power per shot (MW2e p93), and having 4 kilos available for ammunition, could pick one of the following battery loadouts:
32 * Standard Power Packs: total of 160 C-Bills, 640 pts of power, resulting in 128 shots
1 Military Power Pack: 40 C-Bills, 200 pts of power, resulting in 40 shots
2 Satchel Power Packs: Total of 40 C-Bills, 200 pts of power, resulting in 40 shots
26,000 Micro Batteries: Total of 260,000 C-Bills, 390,000 pts of power, resulting in 78,000 shots
One of these is so far outside the average it sticks out
I think a lot of the difference comes from the charging time of the difference packs.
That said I may come back to this later if I have time, but charging the way power packs work in the BattleTech universe is a very low priority at this time.
The charging rate was isolated by setting up different types of Packs (high-capacity, quick-charge, and Clan). All of the Standard Power Packs charge at the same rate, the key to me is the amount of power you get per unit of weight. The Micro Power Packs are far more effective than anything else in their same category.
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Yes, that was the problem I was trying to fix with my proposal...
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Do you mean Word document? If so, easy day! :thumbsup:
And congrats on the possible promotion! Not that it will mean easier anything at work... ^-^
word document, sorry not sure why phone would change that.
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As requested! :thumbsup:
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Kind of update.
So I did feel well enough to get some work done.
As I was still not up for editing, I worked on the expansion to the Vehicle Integration rules.
The are coming along well and I may even have them up by Monday.
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Glad to hear you're feeling better! :thumbsup:
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So, my group plays 2nd Edition. I found this project that you are working on, and I must say this is awesome. We all agree it adds more flavor to the characters that we make. The characters just have more life to them, don't get me wrong making characters in the 2nd Edition is easy. We played 3rd Edition also and loved the life paths that you could roll on, just didn't like the 2D10 system. With what you have done is greatly helped in the way we make characters now.
Thanks, Keep up the Good Work.
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So, my group plays 2nd Edition. I found this project that you are working on, and I must say this is awesome. We all agree it adds more flavor to the characters that we make. The characters just have more life to them, don't get me wrong making characters in the 2nd Edition is easy. We played 3rd Edition also and loved the life paths that you could roll on, just didn't like the 2D10 system. With what you have done is greatly helped in the way we make characters now.
Thanks, Keep up the Good Work.
Thank you.
This was the point of the whole project, so I am glade that it is working.
If you don't mind could I get a rundown on how each part works so I can fine tune the options.
I would love to hear you and your players likes and dislikes, so It can be the best optional set it can.
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Glad to hear you're feeling better! :thumbsup:
So Daryk, not sure how far you have gotten with RL or RT yet, but one of the things I would like you to look at are the previous experience rules in Legionnarie.
As I am beyond not happy with the current previous experience rules I have, I was wondering if you think a modified version of these rules would work for MW2.
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Not as far as I'd like, honestly. Work has been pretty rough lately, and family chaos is its own thing during this season. I'm working through it when I can. I will certainly get that feedback to you when I can. :thumbsup:
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With the evil holiday of Thanksgiving behind us, the time has come again for another update.
I have been hard at work (or hardly working) on the next installment of the Optional rules.
As it stands right now, a lot of the editing is done, most of the vehicle expansion is complete and I think you will love the new layout and look of the Battle Armor section and some added IOS and Intelligence School information.
That said the next update will be short the Previous Experience section as I was never really happy with the results. It may make it into the following update if Daryk and I can figure out a working formula, but its out until further notice. Also, since I only have one item to add at this point I am holding off on adding the Appendix until I can make the addition worth the page space.
On that subject, If any of you have Rule changes or submission ideas that you would like added to the Appendix please post them in word format and I will see that they get added and you get credited for them.
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Ok, found the Previous Experience section in Legionnaire. It's another random roll system that can have negative effects, though at least it doesn't appear to be instantly fatal. In general, I'm not a fan of randomness to that degree in character generation. I understand some people prefer that, I'm just not one of them. I approach character creation with a character concept already in mind, and then take the building blocks of a system like AToW and assemble them to fit my concept.
As far as this project, I think the "base" character should be fresh out of training ("Green" if you prefer). A "Regular" should have at least one combat tour under their belt, probably with at least one additional non-combat tour. I think Veterans would have three, and Elites at least six.
The value of those "levels" should probably be linked at least indirectly to the cost of getting two combat skills (e.g., Gunnery and Piloting) to levels recognizable to table top players. Given the game's evolution over the years, I consider 4/5 to be Green, 3/4 Regular, 2/3 Veteran and 1/2 Elite.
In addition to the direct combat skills, those levels should come with other skills (e.g., Leadership, Tactics, Sensor Operations, etc.).
Thoughts?
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Ok, found the Previous Experience section in Legionnaire. It's another random roll system that can have negative effects, though at least it doesn't appear to be instantly fatal. In general, I'm not a fan of randomness to that degree in character generation. I understand some people prefer that, I'm just not one of them. I approach character creation with a character concept already in mind, and then take the building blocks of a system like AToW and assemble them to fit my concept.
As far as this project, I think the "base" character should be fresh out of training ("Green" if you prefer). A "Regular" should have at least one combat tour under their belt, probably with at least one additional non-combat tour. I think Veterans would have three, and Elites at least six.
The value of those "levels" should probably be linked at least indirectly to the cost of getting two combat skills (e.g., Gunnery and Piloting) to levels recognizable to table top players. Given the game's evolution over the years, I consider 4/5 to be Green, 3/4 Regular, 2/3 Veteran and 1/2 Elite.
In addition to the direct combat skills, those levels should come with other skills (e.g., Leadership, Tactics, Sensor Operations, etc.).
Thoughts?
What I would like is for as many people as have the time to run character creation on at least 3-4 PCs and give me the skills levels/Characteristics that they come up with so I can take a look at where we are starting from.
I don't want to start working on the Previous Experience until I have a baseline of the starting skills to see where we are building from.
Try to very the Priorities and schools/Backgrounds to give a better average.
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Oh, ok... it'll be hard to break my MW2 habits, though. I still see Attributes as the mandatory first priority, or at least above skills every time.
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Update (Missing info)
Going over the character creation section I found that some information was missing from the affiliation section.
Add: Characters start with the following due to life experiences within their faction.
Culture/Affiliation (2)
and one of the following
Language/English (2)
or
Language/English (1), Language/Primary (1), and Language/Secondary (1)
or
Language/English (1), Language/Secondary (1), and Language/Secondary (1)
Not sure when this got unintentionally dropped.
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So after creating 3 mechwarriors the results are
FedSun (Curcis March)/Nobility/Military School/NAIS
Gunnery/Mech TN 2
Piloting/Mech TN 3
DC (Benjamin District)/White Collar/Military School/Galedon Military Academy
Gunnery/Mech TN 2
Piloting/Mech TN 3
Clan Wolf/Trueborn Créche/Trueborn Sibko/Primary Warrior pack
Gunnery/Mech TN 0
Piloting/Mech TN 1
Not seeing a reason for Previous Experience rules.
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Ok, those are the combat skills... what about the rest?
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Ok, those are the combat skills... what about the rest?
FedSuns (Curcis March)/Nobility/Military School/NAIS
Skills
Language/English (2) TN7
Protocol/FedSuns (3) TN6
SI: Military History (1) TN8
Career/Soldier (1) TN8
SI: Hockey (1) TN8
SI: FedSuns History (1) TN8
Perception (1) TN8
Language/German (1) TN8
Medtech (2) TN7
Small Arms (2) TN6
Gunnery/Mech (4) TN4
Piloting/Mech (3) TN5
Computer (2) TN7
Leadership (3) TN6
Bureaucracy/FedSuns (1) TN8
Unarmed Combat (1) TN8
Tactics/Mech (2) TN7
Strategy (2) TN7
Training (1) TN8
Advantages/Disadvantages
Title: Baronet (Heir) (1)
Extra Edge (1)
Wealth (1)
Quirk/Smoker (-1)
Enemy (-2)
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DC (Benjamin District)/White Collar/Military School/Galedon Military Academy
Skills
Language/Japanese (1) TN8
Protocol/Draconis Combine (2) TN8
SI: Military History (1) TN8
Career/Soldier (1) TN8
SI: Astronomy (1) TN8
SI: Oral Tradition (2) TN7
Culture/Draconis Combine (2) TN8
Language/English (2) TN7
Medtech (1) TN8
Small Arms (1) TN7
Gunnery/Mech (4) TN4
Piloting/Mech (3) TN5
Computer (1) TN8
Unarmed Combat (2) TN6
Survival (2) TN7
Blade (1) TN7
Streetwise/Draconis Combine (1) TN8
Advantages/Disadvantages
Well-Connected (1)
Toughness (2) Gained from Galedon Military Academy per FM:DC
Quirk/Paranoid of Draconis Combine Government (-1)
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I can see the effect of Attributes already.
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Clan Wolf/Trueborn Créche/Trueborn Sibko/Primary Warrior pack
Skills
SI: Clan Remembrance (1) TN5
Protocol/Clans (1) TN7
Swimming (1) TN7
Career/Soldier (1) TN5
Negotiation (1) TN7
Protocol/Clan Wolf (1) TN7
Leadership (1) TN7
Gunnery/Mech (4) TN1
Piloting/Mech (3) TN2
Interrogation (1) TN7
Medtech (1) TN5
Small Arms (2) TN3
Survival (1) TN5
Tactics/Mech (2) TN4
Tech/Mech (2) TN4
Unarmed Combat (2) TN6
Advantages/Disadvantages
Bloodname (Carns) (2)
Well-equipped (1)
Reputation/Founder's Clan (1)
Compulsion/Clan Honor (-2)
Quirk/Wolf Pride (-1)
Enemy/ Jade Falcon (-1)
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I can see the effect of Attributes already.
ignore all of this I forgot to double the cost of INT LOL.
Man I need to not do this just after I wake up xp
All the skills and Advantage/Disadvantages are right just need to redo the attributes and TN
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Doubling INT was an attempted patch in game design of the original, I think. I don't think it worked. It just made INT that much more important to max.
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So all 3 have been corrected and I can't say any of them are unplayable.
They all seem to be decent characters I would play.
The DC guy is kind of rough but it could be a challenge.
As for the experience all but the Clan Warrior seem to be green with no major advantages other then flavor and variety provided by the backgrounds/Affiliations/schools, so we are good there.
As for the Pervious Experience I think the RL system would work wonders here, toned down of course.
A max level would need to be set and Some form of Rank table worked out but it should work well to give the effect of experience with some limitations. like
1. No skill can be chosen two rolls in a row at the same level (Primary/Secondary).
2. Drop the Attribute boosts or make them really hard to get.
3. Max skill level equal to Learn+2 or 3 not sure yet.
And others as I work on it.
New Mission if you choose to except it Daryk :thumbsup:
Brake the system. >:D
Let me see what you can get when you really want to Min/Max the system. ;D
The reason I ask is I have run the numbers multiple times and outside the clans who can ignore the vehicle priority I can't find any way to make the complained about elite Mechwarrior without majorly hamstringing the character in all other aspects of the game.
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It might be tomorrow, but I'll take a swing at it! I was working on a project for Cannonshop today (now posted over in his fan fiction thread).
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Ok, it looks like it takes Flexible Priorities to actually "break" anything. With 4s in both Attributes and Skills, even a Taurian could take an Advanced Academy package and boost Gunnery to 5 (15 for the package, 4 + 5 to raise the skill) for a base of 1. Clanners could get to 0/0 by using the extra 4 Skill Points to raise Piloting to 4 (not that they would bother). The real limit here is that a level 6 skill costs 21 points.
That said, I took a swing at a "normal" priorities build:
Priorities
Attributes: 4 (30)
Skills: 3 (20)
Vehicle: 2 (Medium 'Mech)
Race: 1 (FedSuns)
Advantages: 0
Attributes:
BLD: 3
REF: 6
INT: 6
LRN: 6
CHA: 3
Skill Build
Affiliation: FedSuns/Capellan March
Well Connected (1)
Quirk/Hatred of CC (-1)
Protocol/FedSuns: 2
SI/FedSuns History: 1
Language/Russian: 1
Perception: 2
Early Childhood: Blue Collar
Career/Soldier: 1
SI/General Science: 1
Late Childhood: Military School
Career/Soldier: 1
SI/Military History: 1
NAIS Advanced University Package (18 points, +1 Level 3, 2, and 1 skills)
Gunnery/Mech: 3
Piloting/Mech: 3
Tactics: 3
Small Arms: 2
MedTech: 2
Bureaucracy: 2
Leadership: 2
Protocol/FedSuns: 2
Perception: 2
SI/General Science: 2
Survival: 1
UA Combat: 1
Computer: 1
Technician/Mech: 1
2 remaining Skill Points boost SI/General Science to 2 as required by NAIS.
Combined Skill List:
Gunnery/Mech: 3
Piloting/Mech: 3
Tactics: 3
Small Arms: 2
MedTech: 2
Bureaucracy: 2
Leadership: 2
Career/Soldier: 2
Culture/FedSuns: 2
Language/English: 2
SI/FedSuns History: 1
Language/Russian: 1
Survival: 1
UA Combat: 1
Computer: 1
Technician/Mech: 1With Well Connected (1) and Quirk/Hates the CC (-1).
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Ok, it looks like it takes Flexible Priorities to actually "break" anything. With 4s in both Attributes and Skills, even a Taurian could take an Advanced Academy package and boost Gunnery to 5 (15 for the package, 4 + 5 to raise the skill) for a base of 1. Clanners could get to 0/0 by using the extra 4 Skill Points to raise Piloting to 4 (not that they would bother). The real limit here is that a level 6 skill costs 21 points.
That said, I took a swing at a "normal" priorities build:
Priorities
Attributes: 4 (30)
Skills: 3 (20)
Vehicle: 2 (Medium 'Mech)
Race: 1 (FedSuns)
Advantages: 0
Attributes:
BLD: 3
REF: 6
INT: 6
LRN: 6
CHA: 3
Skill Build
Affiliation: FedSuns/Capellan March
Well Connected (1)
Quirk/Hatred of CC (-1)
Protocol/FedSuns: 2
SI/FedSuns History: 1
Language/Russian: 1
Perception: 2
Early Childhood: Blue Collar
Career/Soldier: 1
SI/General Science: 1
Late Childhood: Military School
Career/Soldier: 1
SI/Military History: 1
NAIS Advanced University Package (18 points, +1 Level 3, 2, and 1 skills)
Gunnery/Mech: 3
Piloting/Mech: 3
Tactics: 3
Small Arms: 2
MedTech: 2
Bureaucracy: 2
Leadership: 2
Protocol/FedSuns: 2
Perception: 2
SI/General Science: 2
Survival: 1
UA Combat: 1
Computer: 1
Technician/Mech: 1
2 remaining Skill Points boost SI/General Science to 2 as required by NAIS.
Combined Skill List:
Gunnery/Mech: 3
Piloting/Mech: 3
Tactics: 3
Small Arms: 2
MedTech: 2
Bureaucracy: 2
Leadership: 2
Career/Soldier: 2
Culture/FedSuns: 2
Language/English: 2
SI/FedSuns History: 1
Language/Russian: 1
Survival: 1
UA Combat: 1
Computer: 1
Technician/Mech: 1With Well Connected (1) and Quirk/Hates the CC (-1).
Not really looking to survive combat outside the mech.
It really is necessary for a MechWarrior to have Body 4 IMHO.
And your going to go unconscious faster and more offend from damage in Mech combat.
Most Pilot damage in Mech combat is 2D6+ so you need to have the ability to take at least 7 damage per hit or you will not last long.
As an observation, the main issues with the game is not the core game mechanics, the issues lie with the over dependency on the INT and LRN Attributes for base TNs in character creation and game play. Personally, I think this could and should have been fixed easily by just adding another Attribute and changing INT. All you have to do is add lets say Willpower and Change INT to Dexterity, then split up the Skills to be covered more evenly and you have your fix. You have already got the point in place for the extra Attribute if you drop the INT cost two rule. This would also give the ability to add a few more Characteristics to give you better and more intuitive (pardon the pun) coverage.
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Sample Ideas for new Characteristics
Athletics/Stamina: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Accuracy/Precision: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Mobility/Physical: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Academic: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Charm: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Command: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
I would love to hear others take on this.
If it goes over well I may add it as an optional rule set with skill charts to the MW2 Optional rules.
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I like the idea of more Attributes to lead to more derived Characteristics, and not just because it gets rid of the INT problem.
Stamina sounds more like BOD+WIL to me, and Accuracy sounds like LRN+RFL. Perhaps add "Poise" as DEX+CHA.
Precision as DEX+RFL makes sense, as does BOD+DEX for Mobility. That could leave Athletics for BOD+RFL.
I think you nailed Academic (maybe Recall?), Charm and Command.
The only other thing to consider would be some kind of average for Physical and Mental overall.
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As far as the individual character, it's easy enough to shift a point from CHA to BLD.
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I like the idea of more Attributes to lead to more derived Characteristics, and not just because it gets rid of the INT problem.
Stamina sounds more like BOD+WIL to me, and Accuracy sounds like LRN+RFL. Perhaps add "Poise" as DEX+CHA.
Precision as DEX+RFL makes sense, as does BOD+DEX for Mobility. That could leave Athletics for BOD+RFL.
I think you nailed Academic (maybe Recall?), Charm and Command.
The only other thing to consider would be some kind of average for Physical and Mental overall.
Ok, since we have some interest I think its ok to continue with development of this idea.
First some points I need to make.
1. The names are place holders, not really what I was trying to emulate.
2. While I agree that BOD+WIL is a good combo I was trying to avoid mixing the physical (BLD/REF/DEX) and mental (WIL/LRN/CHA) attributes. BOD+WIL, I could see as a secondary Characteristics used for saving throws.
That said what would you think the skill spread would be?
Some ideas I have to think about are;
1. Taking Special Interest (and some other cascade skills) and having it be an assign the Characteristics on purchase skill. Meaning that lets say you choose SI: Hockey, you can either take it as a Academic or Athletics/Stamina skill. One means you are knowledgeable in the history/stats of the sport, where the other shows you have skill in playing the actual game.
2. Making sure that no Characteristics gets the lions share of the skills, I'm looking at your Mental.
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The only other thing to consider would be some kind of average for Physical and Mental overall.
I think I know what you are getting at but to be sure.
Are you talking about a limit on the gap between Physical and Mental attribute totals?
If so I'm not sure I agree with an arbitrary limit as you have to consider the Jock/Nerd PC types.
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I would consider adding a minimum score for Attributes at 3 with a caveat of only one may be below that without a Disadvantage lowering it.
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What I was thinking was three Physical Characteristics, three Mental, and (only) three Combination. Then a "saving roll" that uses the average of all three Attributes of a given type (only Physical or Mental). Does that make sense?
As far as 3 being the minimum, with a range of only 6 for normal humans, I would go with no minimum. If everyone is above average, it's NOT the average...
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What I was thinking was three Physical Characteristics, three Mental, and (only) three Combination. Then a "saving roll" that uses the average of all three Attributes of a given type (only Physical or Mental). Does that make sense?
As far as 3 being the minimum, with a range of only 6 for normal humans, I would go with no minimum. If everyone is above average, it's NOT the average...
So what I have with two secondary for saving throws?
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Plus the three Combination Characteristics. The whole thing would look like this:
Physical:
Athletics: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Precision: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Mobility: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Mental:
Academic: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Charm: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Command: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Combination:
Stamina: 18-(Body + Willpower)
Accuracy: 18-(Reflexes + Learn)
Poise: 18-(Dexterity + Charisma)
Saving Rolls based on:
Physical: Some derivation of Body, Dexterity and Reflexes
Mental: Some derivation of Learn, Willpower and Charisma
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Plus the three Combination Characteristics. The whole thing would look like this:
Physical:
Athletics: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Precision: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Mobility: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Mental:
Academic: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Charm: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Command: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Combination:
Stamina: 18-(Body + Willpower)
Accuracy: 18-(Reflexes + Learn)
Poise: 18-(Dexterity + Charisma)
Saving Rolls based on:
Physical: Some derivation of Body, Dexterity and Reflexes
Mental: Some derivation of Learn, Willpower and Charisma
Personally, I think 9 Characteristics + 2 Saving throws in a bit much and would dilute the skill pool to a point that every grouping would have its own skill.
That said if we meet in the middle with 6 Characteristics + 2 Save it may work better.
Physical:
Athletics: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Precision: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Mobility: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Mental:
Academic: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Charm: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Command: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Saves:
Stamina: 18-(Body + Willpower)
Poise: 18-(Dexterity + Charisma)
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Hmmm... That seems to leave Reflexes and Learn as the odd ones out, but I think that can be remedied by basing Initiative on that pairing. What do you think?
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Hmmm... That seems to leave Reflexes and Learn as the odd ones out, but I think that can be remedied by basing Initiative on that pairing. What do you think?
Since Initiative uses Reflexes as part of the formula I don see why Learn could not be added. It even kind of makes sense for Learn to be part of the formula, as mental awareness of the situation would effect how fast you can react. Now this does pose a problem with the Initiative formula in vehicle combat as tactics and piloting skill are used.
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Not an Update presa
Had a really hard week at work though there where some upsides (possible promotion to management), so I most likely will not have anything up this weekend(depends if I feel up to it). That said I will probably get some work done later this weekend but nothing worth posting.
Congrads on a possible promotion
I would love to try to make PCs if we were not short staffed, even more then normal... I have been working 7 day a week since week before Thanksgiving, and I in theory have next Weds off to get things done at home
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Since Initiative uses Reflexes as part of the formula I don see why Learn could not be added. It even kind of makes sense for Learn to be part of the formula, as mental awareness of the situation would effect how fast you can react. Now this does pose a problem with the Initiative formula in vehicle combat as tactics and piloting skill are used.
Well, LRN affects Tactics and RFL affects Piloting, right? ???
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Well, LRN affects Tactics and RFL affects Piloting, right? ???
Not for Initiative.
In the current formulas its:
RPG combat: 2d6 + Reflexes
Which if we changed like we discussed would be
RPG combat: 2d6 + Reflexes + Learn.
works and not a big change.
But Vehicle combat is
Vehicles: 2d6 + Tactics level + Piloting level
Infantry: 2d6 + Tactics level x2
So its the level of the skill which has nothing to do with the connected characteristic.
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Well here's my first attempt at skill assignment.
Physical:
Athletics: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Drive/Any
Piloting/Any
Riding
Running
Stealth
Swimming
Unarmed Combat
Precision: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Archery
Blade
Gunnery/Any
Perception
Small Arms
Support Weapons
Throwing Weapons
Mobility: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Acrobatics
Climbing
Escape Artist
Jump Pack
Quickdraw
Zero-G Operations
Mental:
Academic: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Appraisal
Communications/Any
Computer
Cryptograph
Demolitions
Engineering
Forgery
Navigation
Scrounge
Strategy
Streetwise
Survival
Tactics/Any
Technician/Any
Tinker
Tracking
Charm: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Alternate Identity
Disguise
Gambling
Impersonation
Negotiation
Protocol
Seduction
Command: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Administration
Bureaucracy
Interrogation
Leadership
Training
Multiple Characteristic Skills
Career Skills: Depends on the Career
Medtech: Depends on level of skill needed
Special Interests (SI):Depends on if the Interest is the actual action of doing the SI or just the knowledge of such.
Another Idea would be to lose the Characteristics and move to a direct Skill based formula 18-(1st Attribute + 2nd Attribute) per skill.
This would remove the issues of skills having to be squeezed into a Characteristics or having way to many Characteristics.
Allowing for more logical assignment of attributes to skills.
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The second option removes Characteristic and uses Attribute determined by the skill itself. It also allows for the double use of Attributes on some skills.
Acrobatics: 18-(Reflexes + Reflexes)
Administration: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Alternate Identity: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Appraisal: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Archery: 18-(Dexterity + Dexterity)
Blade: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Bureaucracy: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Career Skills: 18-(Learn + Appropriate Attribute)
Climbing: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Communications/Any: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Computer: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Cryptograph: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Demolitions: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Disguise: 18-(Body + Charisma)
Drive/Any: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Engineering: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Escape Artist: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Forgery: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Gambling: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Gunnery/Any: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Impersonation: 18-(Charisma + Charisma)
Interrogation: 18-(Body + Charisma)
Jump Pack: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Leadership: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Medtech : 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Navigation: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Negotiation: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Perception: 18-(Dexterity + Willpower)
Piloting/Any: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Protocol: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Quickdraw: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Riding: 18-(Dexterity + Willpower)
Running: 18-(Willpower + Reflexes)
Scrounge: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Seduction: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Small Arms: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Special Interests (SI): 18-(Learn + Appropriate Attribute)
Stealth: 18-(Learn+ Reflexes)
Strategy: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Streetwise: 18-(Charisma + Charisma)
Support Weapons: 18-(Dexterity + Dexterity)
Survival: 18-(Body + Learn)
Swimming: 18-(Body + Willpower)
Tactics/Any: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Technician/Any: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Throwing Weapons: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Tinker: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Tracking: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Training: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Unarmed Combat: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Zero-G Operations: 18-(Reflexes + Reflexes)
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New Attributes would certainly take this in a new direction, I like the idea.
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Hmmm... I suppose it depends on how much quibbling you want to do. The first list I have relatively few issues with, but that's only in comparison with the second. Going skill by skill will be a slog.
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Saving Rolls based on:
Physical: Some derivation of Body, Dexterity and Reflexes
Mental: Some derivation of Learn, Willpower and Charisma
What if the Saving Rolls were based on the lowest of the three values, unless otherwise specified? I.e. an explosion could be avoided by being tough enough, flexible enough, and coordinated enough, but whichever of the three is the weakest is where the character will take damage (i.e. not tough enough, bent the wrong way, or just not fast enough).
This would encourage players to avoid min-maxing their characters.
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Hmmm... I suppose it depends on how much quibbling you want to do. The first list I have relatively few issues with, but that's only in comparison with the second. Going skill by skill will be a slog.
Its no different from 3rd or AToW, so I'm not sure I follow the issues.
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In the first list:
I think Running and Swimming should be Mobility.
Perception should be Academic.
Quickdraw should be Precision.
Scrounge should be Charm.
Negotiation should be Command.
Administration should be Charm.
And I'm on the fence about Bureaucracy, Charm seems a better fit, but Command sort of works.
The second list I have more quibbles.
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In the first list:
I think Running and Swimming should be Mobility.
Perception should be Academic.
Quickdraw should be Precision.
Scrounge should be Charm.
Negotiation should be Command.
Administration should be Charm.
And I'm on the fence about Bureaucracy, Charm seems a better fit, but Command sort of works.
The second list I have more quibbles.
I already decided to drop the first list. It was to limiting and had the same limitations overall that the core rules Characteristics had;
1. Trying to put a named Characteristic on it puts an unintentional limit on what most GM will assume is allowed within that Characteristic.
2. Dropping some combinations again limits was options you have to assign skills to.
3. Sometimes it just makes sense to use one attribute twice.
4. The second list is not the final list it was jut an example idea at the time, the current list is bellow.
Acrobatics: 18-(Reflexes + Reflexes)
Administration: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Alternate Identity: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Animal Handling: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Appraisal: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Archery: 18-(Dexterity + Dexterity)
Blade: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Bureaucracy: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Career Skills*: 18-(Learn + Appropriate Attribute)
Climbing: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Communications/Any: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Computer: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Cryptograph: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Culture*: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Demolitions: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Disguise: 18-(Body + Charisma)
Drive/Any: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Engineering: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Escape Artist: 18-(Body + Dexterity)
Forgery: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Gambling: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Gunnery/Any: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Impersonation: 18-(Charisma + Charisma)
Interrogation: 18-(Body + Charisma)
Jump Pack: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Languages*: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Leadership: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Medtech : 18-(Learn + Learn)
Navigation: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Negotiation: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Perception: 18-(Dexterity + Willpower)
Piloting/Any: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Protocol: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Quickdraw: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Riding: 18-(Dexterity + Willpower)
Running: 18-(Willpower + Reflexes)
Science*: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Scrounge: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Sensor Operations*: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Security Systems: 18-(Dexterity + Learn)
Seduction: 18-(Charisma + Willpower)
Small Arms: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Special Interests (SI)*: 18-(Learn + Learn)
Stealth: 18-(Learn+ Reflexes)
Strategy: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Streetwise: 18-(Charisma + Charisma)
Support Weapons: 18-(Dexterity + Dexterity)
Survival: 18-(Body + Learn)
Swimming: 18-(Body + Willpower)
Tactics/Any: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Technician/Any: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Throwing Weapons: 18-(Dexterity + Reflexes)
Tinker: 18-(Learn+ Willpower)
Tracking: 18-(Learn + Willpower)
Training: 18-(Charisma + Learn)
Unarmed Combat: 18-(Body + Reflexes)
Zero-G Operations: 18-(Reflexes + Reflexes)
|
Note: * are new or updated/expanded skills explained in the new skills section.
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Ok... here goes:
Acrobatics should be DEX + REF
Animal Handling should be CHA + WIL
Archery should be REF + BOD
Computer should be LRN + LRN
Cryptography should be LRN + LRN
Disguise should be DEX + CHA
Engineering should be LRN + LRN
Escape Artist should be DEX + DEX
Negotiation should be CHA + WIL
Perception should be LRN + WIL
Piloting should be DEX + REF
Protocol should be LRN + CHA
Quickdraw should be REF + REF
Running should be DEX + BOD
Stealth should be DEX + LRN
Strategy should be LRN + LRN
Support Weapons should be BOD + REF
Swimming should be DEX + BOD
Technician should be LRN + DEX
Throwing Weapons should be BOD + REF
UA Combat should be BOD + DEX
Zero-G Ops should be DEX + REF
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Ok... here goes:
Acrobatics should be DEX + REF
Animal Handling should be CHA + WIL
Archery should be REF + BOD
Computer should be LRN + LRN
Cryptography should be LRN + LRN
Disguise should be DEX + CHA
Engineering should be LRN + LRN
Escape Artist should be DEX + DEX
Negotiation should be CHA + WIL
Perception should be LRN + WIL
Piloting should be DEX + REF
Protocol should be LRN + CHA
Quickdraw should be REF + REF
Running should be DEX + BOD
Stealth should be DEX + LRN
Strategy should be LRN + LRN
Support Weapons should be BOD + REF
Swimming should be DEX + BOD
Technician should be LRN + DEX
Throwing Weapons should be BOD + REF
UA Combat should be BOD + DEX
Zero-G Ops should be DEX + REF
Don't agree on most of these
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Acrobatics: Agreed
Animal Handling: Not sure I agree that Cha would work. Depends on if you think it would really work on animals.
Archery: Having done Archery for a while in my youth, I can say I don't agree with REF as an attribute. Maybe DEX+BOD
Computer: LRN + LRN works better in my opinion also but some of these where based off of AToW. Trying to avoid to many Doubles.
Cryptography: Agreed
Disguise: Not sure what Dex has to do with Disguise.
Engineering: LRN + LRN could work, but I think it would depend on if it was knowledge based or practical uses.
Escape Artist: I still think BOD is important to this skill.
Negotiation: Ok, on this one I look at it the PC needs some knowledge to effectively Negotiation.
Perception: I can see this.
Piloting: Sorry this one has always bugged me. It's set up this way just to limit the number of Attributes needed to be a MechWarrior. And this also ends the hyper focus issues with all editions. Being Flexible/Nimble has nothing to do with driving a mech IMHO.
Protocol: Maybe
Quickdraw: Ok
Running: Again Not sure what DEX has to do with it, I see it as REX because it's more about being able to react wan needed when moving at higher speed.
Stealth: Sure why not.
Strategy: Strategy is not only about Knowledge, you needed to be able to push the enemy into actions you want them to take.
Support Weapons: Why Body? Most Support Weapons are stabilized in some way.
Swimming: Why DEX?
Technician: I can see this.
UA Combat: I feel REF better fits the reactive nature of UA Combat then DEX.
Zero-G Ops: Don't see DEX as useful in a weightless environment.
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DEX is whole body coordination, where REF is pretty much just reaction time (and hand-eye coordination at best), or at least that's how I see it.
For Animal Handling, I grew up on a farm. Persuasion is persuasion whether the target is human or otherwise. I left Willpower in Riding since that's more coercive (bit and bridle, e.g.).
For Disguise in particular, poise is key to pulling it off.
For Escape Artist, how big/strong was Houdini?
For Running, Swimming, UA Combat and Zero-G Ops, whole body coordination is more important that reaction time.
Strategy and Tactics are different, which is why I pushed Strategy in the direction I did. My last tour was teaching that stuff at a war college.
For Support Weapons, BOD is important because of inertia. Even if a weapon is stabilized, its harder to bring on target rapidly.
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DEX is whole body coordination, where REF is pretty much just reaction time (and hand-eye coordination at best), or at least that's how I see it.
For Animal Handling, I grew up on a farm. Persuasion is persuasion whether the target is human or otherwise. I left Willpower in Riding since that's more coercive (bit and bridle, e.g.).
For Disguise in particular, poise is key to pulling it off.
For Escape Artist, how big/strong was Houdini?
For Running, Swimming, UA Combat and Zero-G Ops, whole body coordination is more important that reaction time.
Strategy and Tactics are different, which is why I pushed Strategy in the direction I did. My last tour was teaching that stuff at a war college.
For Support Weapons, BOD is important because of inertia. Even if a weapon is stabilized, its harder to bring on target rapidly.
For DEX, I see it as fine motor manipulation. Something that is not as important to Running, Swimming, UA Combat and Zero-G Ops. Where Reaction time is very important in these actions.
Strategy and Tactics are different on what scale is involved, but I don't think that the differences translate to the Attributes used in the RPG.
For Disguise you are using a made-up characteristic name to justify the formulas uses. Again to me DEX is fine motor manipulation, so I don't see it used here as a primary Attribute.
For Escape Artist its not about strength, its about stamina, which by the rules BLD covers.
For Support Weapons all the issues you cover are already in the combat rules so the skill doesn't need to cover them again. As for BLD being important, again outside of non-combat actions such as luging it around or setting it up in the first place, I don't see it.
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The differences between strategy and tactics are mostly about time scale. With more time, LRN becomes more important than anything physical.
"Fine" motor manipulation implies shorter time scales to me, and that implies REF, not DEX. That seems to be majority of our disagreements.
In second edition, strength and endurance (somewhat) are combined into BLD. Endurance in my mind is a combination of willpower (lower case) and actual constitution. Honestly, it's an argument for more Attributes, I think.
Heavier weapons are by definition slower to bring on target. Inertia applies at all time scales.
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The differences between strategy and tactics are mostly about time scale. With more time, LRN becomes more important than anything physical.
Would one way to illustrate the difference be:
- strategy tends to focus on supplies/organization of a force, and anticipating those needs (both yours and the enemy)
- tactics tends to focus on deploying your force against an enemy, and anticipating their counter-maneuvers
Administration might be a useful part of Strategy to make sure that the supplies are present, while strategy would be knowing what supplies will be needed in which locations. So a lieutenant might focus on the supply truck providing the food/washing/bedding of their platoon, while the Colonel is determining the best location for a Dropship to make sure the repair/maintenance supplies are at the right location.
Heavier weapons are by definition slower to bring on target. Inertia applies at all time scales.
I thought larger weapons on larger weapon mounts might be just as maneuverable, since the equipment moving the weapon is scaled up appropriately.
I.e. a 10-lb weapon being moved by a person who can provide 100 lbs of 'force' (not sure the exact terms, sorry)
vs
a 10-ton weapon being moved by a machine that can provide 100 tons of 'force'
To me both of these weapons would be equally maneuverable. The key problem is the structural requirements/strength, where the force exerted by the equipment might be too much for the weapon or the structural components (darn square-cube law).
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The differences between strategy and tactics are mostly about time scale. With more time, LRN becomes more important than anything physical.
"Fine" motor manipulation implies shorter time scales to me, and that implies REF, not DEX. That seems to be majority of our disagreements.
In second edition, strength and endurance (somewhat) are combined into BLD. Endurance in my mind is a combination of willpower (lower case) and actual constitution. Honestly, it's an argument for more Attributes, I think.
Heavier weapons are by definition slower to bring on target. Inertia applies at all time scales.
Willpower is a mental not a physical attribute and it easily covers the ideas of sticking to you plain when thinks look bleak to ride out the rough spots to achieve victor or having the willpower to admit you are wrong and adapt.
This is the issues, Support weapons does not automatically mean "Heavier weapons" as in weight, the Law and VLAW are actually lighter then most rifles in the game. It is more about the battlefield assets it is designed to engage. As most of these weapons that reach this level are more in line with artillery pieces then rifles anyway. So you run into the same issues you get with Small Arms/Unarmed Combat/Etc. that you cannot base the skills attributes on only a portion of the equipment or techniques under it.
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Would one way to illustrate the difference be:
- strategy tends to focus on supplies/organization of a force, and anticipating those needs (both yours and the enemy)
- tactics tends to focus on deploying your force against an enemy, and anticipating their counter-maneuvers
Administration might be a useful part of Strategy to make sure that the supplies are present, while strategy would be knowing what supplies will be needed in which locations. So a lieutenant might focus on the supply truck providing the food/washing/bedding of their platoon, while the Colonel is determining the best location for a Dropship to make sure the repair/maintenance supplies are at the right location.
I thought larger weapons on larger weapon mounts might be just as maneuverable, since the equipment moving the weapon is scaled up appropriately.
I.e. a 10-lb weapon being moved by a person who can provide 100 lbs of 'force' (not sure the exact terms, sorry)
vs
a 10-ton weapon being moved by a machine that can provide 100 tons of 'force'
To me both of these weapons would be equally maneuverable. The key problem is the structural requirements/strength, where the force exerted by the equipment might be too much for the weapon or the structural components (darn square-cube law).
Newtons of Force I believe or Newtons for short.
A newton is defined as 1 kg⋅m/s2, which is the force which gives a mass of 1 kilogram an acceleration of 1 metre per second, per second.
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Update 1.3 is now up
New additions
1. Added two versions of the new Attribute and skill system.
2. MOS/FOS/IOS/COS/HOS got a make over and edit. New Basic training packages for all the main powers were added and some new Specials Forces IOSs. Others like Battlemech were changed to add in some of the new skills and better represent the MOSs.
3. Most of the combat oriented equipment is done (explosives are done but need some page editing.
4. New sections for battlearmor is done.
5. Vehicle combat system updated with new actions. Please let me know what else the section needs.
6. Previous experience section has been removed pending a complete overhale.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixaroxlsusbko0j/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.3.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixaroxlsusbko0j/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.3.pdf?dl=0)
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I'm travelling this week for work, so my access is somewhat limited. Turns out Marriot doesn't have free WiFi any more unless you sign up for their spam list. No thanks...
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Oof, that Wi-Fi sounds like akin to putting quarters into a coin slot like the old cheesy vibrating bed thing back in early 80s and 70s.
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I'm travelling this week for work, so my access is somewhat limited. Turns out Marriot doesn't have free WiFi any more unless you sign up for their spam list. No thanks...
Hopefully their wifi is password protected, and not just 'guest'. A smart system might set it up where the password is:
(random dictionary word) (your room number) (another random dictionary word)
Then tie that password with an expiration based on your reservation. So if you are there overnight and checkout is at noon the next day, your password is created and activates when you pay for the room, and the password no longer works at noon the next day. The other detail is to make sure each password's access is not accessible to other guests (i.e one person logs in, and is able to scan the rest of the traffic on the network because the hotel wifi system never locked down the access).
By using custom passwords for each room this prevents someone from sitting outside the hotel and using 'guest' to get in, or seeing which rooms light up and using 'guest(that room number)' to get in. By using dictionary words it makes it easy for gusts to know how to spell the password. By using the expiration it ensures that people can't stay one night and have permanent access later.
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You're giving hotels WAY too much credit for cybersecurity smarts... :P
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Update (holidays)
This may be a surprise but I have managed to get a lot done this week on the project.
1. Major editing work on most of the chapters.
2. Updates to some of the MOS/FOS/IOS/COS/HOS section.
3. First draft of the SLDF era academy section.
4. Conversation and layout of the hazardous environment and stealth suits section.
5. Started work on the personal equipment section.
6. Working on adding a Intelligences academy section (about half done)
so while I will be busy this weekend with family, I will more then likely have a new update out before new years.
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Intelligences academy section layout explained.
This section will have a slightly different layout then the other academy sections.
It will provide the name of the faction, location of the school(s), the bonus for attending, then will have a list of the different departments and the associated IOS(s) that go with that department. All rules form the Intelligence Operations Handbook are still followed, but the section will add flavor to the individual schools and provided a road map to creating character within the different departments.
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I'm already involved with family, but stealing away a few minutes to wish everyone a Merry Christmas!
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Happy Holidays to all.
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You're giving hotels WAY too much credit for cybersecurity smarts... :P
:thumbsup:
I used to have a hotel I stayed at the password never changed before COVID... for 5 years and another one that the password expired when you were to check out.. I once had to ask for an extention for check out and password while during a remote conference for work
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Beta 1.4 update
Added features
1. Non-combat and hostile environment clothing
2. Drugs and Poisons and rules for their use
3. Personal equipment
4. first draft of the SLDF academies
5. minor changes to skills and MOS/FOS/IOS/COS/HOS packages.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0)
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Beta 1.4 update
Added features
1. Non-combat and hostile environment clothing
2. Drugs and Poisons and rules for their use
3. Personal equipment
4. first draft of the SLDF academies
5. minor changes to skills and MOS/FOS/IOS/COS/HOS packages.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0)
Two small changes/tweaks:
Academies of the Inner Sphere and Beyond -> Filtvelt Military Academy
Please check the year it was established :D
IOS (page 38)
Several of the ROM IOS are listed as [area] IOS (ROM), and others are listed as [area] (ROM) IOS
Recommend selecting one of the formats only
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Two small changes/tweaks:
Academies of the Inner Sphere and Beyond -> Filtvelt Military Academy
Please check the year it was established :D
IOS (page 38)
Several of the ROM IOS are listed as [area] IOS (ROM), and others are listed as [area] (ROM) IOS
Recommend selecting one of the formats only
Filtvelt Military Academy "Built in the later years of the Third Succession War"
The Third Succession War ran from 2866 to approximately 3025
So unless you have a better date :-\
As for the other thing, I will correct it when I get back to it.
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Filtvelt Military Academy "Built in the later years of the Third Succession War"
The Third Succession War ran from 2866 to approximately 3025
So unless you have a better date :-\
As for the other thing, I will correct it when I get back to it.
page 31 in the google document lists the year for Filtvelt Military Academy as 2025, or about 3 years from now
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page 31 in the google document lists the year for Filtvelt Military Academy as 2025, or about 3 years from now
Which google document?
The House book Davion the only one to give a time period for the academy list the Filtvelt Military Academy as recently built which would put it around 3025 not 2025.
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Sorry for the delay on the previous experience rules... family has been here, and I've been a little preoccupied.
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Sorry for the delay on the previous experience rules... family has been here, and I've been a little preoccupied.
No problem.
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Which google document?
The House book Davion the only one to give a time period for the academy list the Filtvelt Military Academy as recently built which would put it around 3025 not 2025.
The beta 1.4 document posted below. If you do a search for "2025" or "Filtvelt" in the document you will find it.
Beta 1.4 update
Added features
1. Non-combat and hostile environment clothing
2. Drugs and Poisons and rules for their use
3. Personal equipment
4. first draft of the SLDF academies
5. minor changes to skills and MOS/FOS/IOS/COS/HOS packages.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tosltpsujl73d1b/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.pdf?dl=0)
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The beta 1.4 document posted below. If you do a search for "2025" or "Filtvelt" in the document you will find it.
Sorry not sure how that happened?
The source file has the proper date :facepalm:
Fixed
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdx63jkqhd7g326/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.1.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdx63jkqhd7g326/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.4.1.pdf?dl=0)
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Don't feel too bad... I was confused by Idea Weenie's post too.
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I am stumped on this one.
So I will leave it to you guys.
What should the Psychological warfare (ROM) IOS skills be
please submit in the format below.
Psychological warfare (ROM) IOS
Required
Skill 1
Skill 2
Skill 3
Electives (Choose 2)
3-6 skills
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I'll definitely get after this once I figure out my work situation today! :thumbsup:
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I am stumped on this one.
So I will leave it to you guys.
What should the Psychological warfare (ROM) IOS skills be
please submit in the format below.
Psychological warfare (ROM) IOS
Required
Skill 1
Skill 2
Skill 3
Electives (Choose 2)
3-6 skills
This would be for a rabble-rouser type person. Goal is to cause problems
Required:
Culture (identify the weak points in the planet's habits, and exploit them)
Streetwise (find the right people to rebel, rather than doing it yourself)
Strategy (so the organization is housed, fed, and organized)
Electives (Choose 2):
Alternate Identity (you need a fake name and background so you don't get spotted as easily)
Blade (because you won't always be dealing with the nicest people)
Communications (to tap into comm networks and spread the signal)
Computer (depending on the technology of the world this could be useless, though ROM would have some Computer skills)
Cryptograph (gotta pass messages that don't tell everyone what you are planning)
Disguise (so people don't recognize you)
Impersonation (so you can blend in with the mob)
Leadership ("hey boys, the government building is that way (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPmHGf9xrds)")
Perception (is the local police catching on where you need to leave)
Training (so you don't have to do everything yourself, and the right people are put in charge)
For a ROM agent trying to change the planetary culture to be more useful. Goal is changing loyalties of the people
Required:
Culture (identify the weak points in the planet's habits, and exploit them)
Streetwise (find the downtrodden and get them to change)
Leadership (motivate the people to the new mindset)
Electives (Choose 2):
Bureaucracy (reorganizing the bureaucracy so the stuff you want them to do is easier, and anti-government actions require more paperwork)
Computer (depending on the technology of the world this could be useless, though ROM would have some Computer skills)
Disguise (so people don't recognize you)
Impersonation (so you can pretend to be a local)
Interrogation (so you can crack the right person's philosophy making them less useful to the government)
Seduction (sometimes you have to go with changing the right person's mind, instead of trying to affect thousands of people)
Strategy (it would have been nice if your bosses helped you out with organization, but instead you have to do everything yourself)
For a ROM agent tasked with breaking a person's will
Required:
Interrogation (find their weak points and press)
Investigation (get background information on the target)
Perception (to figure out their 'tells', and better scan their home for any hidden secrets)
Electives (Choose 2):
Computers (recording the entire session to make sure you didn't miss anything)
Disguise (after you release the target, you don't want them identifying you)
Escape Artist (mainly to check the bonds to make sure the target cannot escape)
Leadership (convince the target that they should do what you say, rather than what their conscience says)
Medtech (so you don't accidentally kill the person you are breaking)
Negotiation (to break down their limits one at a time)
Security Systems (it helps to not trigger the house alarm when kidnapping someone)
Sensor Operations (you might be using a Star League grade lie detector, but if you can't read the outputs it is useless)
Unarmed Combat (sometimes a punch in the face is needed)
Hope these help
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12 hours in the Pentagon today... that despite the government being "closed". I got a TON of work done, but just finally got past all the family implications of that (turns out they were without power for seven hours, and didn't tell me until I emerged from the building).
Idea Weenie seems to have taken a pretty good swing at it, but it will be at least tomorrow before I can give you my own take.
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So this is a word of Blake only IOS.
Taking a look at their standard tactics, which would you say is their go to setup.
Trying to limit it to one IOS.
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I'll keep that in mind when I take my swing, thanks! :thumbsup:
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Ugh... yet another long day in the Pentagon... It may be the weekend before I can give you a coherent response at this rate.
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Ugh... yet another long day in the Pentagon... It may be the weekend before I can give you a coherent response at this rate.
Ive been sick for the last few days so Im not getting anything done either.
Do worry about it.
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I hope you feel better soon!
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So I know I am behind on this, but what are we currently looking at reviewing
so since Thanksgiving I have had 2 days off, 1 of which was the 25th... got to love the restaurant business and being short staffed, and then having part of the staff have to go to georgia to see his Dad because he was "hospice" care.
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Well. at least your employer respects end of life care. That may not be much, but it is something...
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So I know I am behind on this, but what are we currently looking at reviewing
so since Thanksgiving I have had 2 days off, 1 of which was the 25th... got to love the restaurant business and being short staffed, and then having part of the staff have to go to georgia to see his Dad because he was "hospice" care.
Well, if you are asking what in the options rule is still up for review, everything.
as for specifics:
1. Current Career (MOS, FOS, Etc.) packages. are they functional or do they need work.
2. New attribute/skill rules, do they fix the INT problem or are they a waste of time.
3. Weapons' and equipment, any errors or errata needed.
4. Starleague era academy section, do they work or need fixing.
5. Any lingering issues with older sections that have been missed.
6. Vehicle combat rules, are the added actions enough when combined with MWC or is more needed.
7. do civilian schools need fleshing out or are just the packages fine
8. how are the new drug/poison rules working.
outside of that, the Intelligence academies section and civilian schools are about all I have left work up (see #7).
To save me having to run a poll, I have a few options for Intelligence academies. Which would work the best.
1. Independent bonus like the other schools in the document.
2. A set # of skill to get a +1 bonus
3. no bonus, just the department brake-down of IOSs
Also to for review beta 1.5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cmqu9n4qo9frzh/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.5.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cmqu9n4qo9frzh/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.5.pdf?dl=0)
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Challenge test #1
Build one or more characters using the optional rules.
Rules
1. Use attribute/Skill option #1
2. Use backgrounds and affiliations
3. Use new/old School options (Old from Field Manuals)
4. Washout rules optional
5. Use new advantages and disadvantages.
6. Try to write a short history using the character creation process as a background.
7. Try to at least make one Clan and one Innersphere character, an optional SLDF character would be nice.
The point of this is to see the new rules in action and to test that they are living up to the goals of making good workable characters and providing help with good background material and a feeling of them being part of the BTU.
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So I got some work done over the weekend.
New sections just added
1. Carrying and Encumbrance rules
2. Added some clarifications and expansions to the vehicle combat rules
3. Should have the weapons addons done by tonight.
Some items that are being dropped as of this point.
1. Specific schools for the civilian careers is out. After I sifting through all my books (not a small feat). The amount of information on civilian schools was just to light.
2. Bonus for Intelligence schools turned out to be a lost cause. I have chosen to limit it to just general info and IOS per section breakdowns.
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Dang, I just remembered I owe you a PSYOP IOS. Let me see what I can pull together...
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Dang, I just remembered I owe you a PSYOP IOS. Let me see what I can pull together...
Would be more interested in a Previous Experience section LOL.
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Ok, here's my take, being only somewhat involved in the business at the opertaional/strategic level. I mostly agree with Idea Weenies' take, but not 100%. These guys aren't so much the "rabble rousers" (those are your deep cover guys), but more the folks telling those guys what should work, and how to get the message across:
Psychological warfare (ROM) IOS
Required
Protocol/Primary Target
SI/Persuasion Tactics
Streetwise/Primary Target
Electives (Choose 2)
Bureaucracy
Computers
Communications/Conventional
Forgery
Perception
Strategy
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Would be more interested in a Previous Experience section LOL.
That will take longer... maybe not tonight.
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I've been mulling it over... you don't have aging rules, yet, do you? That would be one of the balancing factors for previous experience.
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I've been mulling it over... you don't have aging rules, yet, do you? That would be one of the balancing factors for previous experience.
Age effects are a hard thing to quantify so I try to avoid it.
To clarify, age effects in RPG games always come across as either a shot in the dark at trying to balance another aspect of the game (previous experience for example) or take a very narrow view of how age effects a person.
The problem is that age effects everyone differently and even more important, in a universe like battletech where medical science has advanced to the point where people like Victor and Natasha are well into their 80s and still physically fit enough to be combat pilots it doesn't seen to have as much effect as the game would have you believe.
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Age effects are a hard thing to quantify so I try to avoid it.
To clarify, age effects in RPG games always come across as either a shot in the dark at trying to balance another aspect of the game (previous experience for example) or take a very narrow view of how age effects a person.
The problem is that age effects everyone differently and even more important, in a universe like battletech where medical science has advanced to the point where people like Victor and Natasha are well into their 80s and still physically fit enough to be combat pilots it doesn't seen to have as much effect as the game would have you believe.
You could have it where rejuvenation treatment requires a number of XP equivalent to a valuable ally, XP equal to high value Wealth/Investments, or a sufficiently expensive background.
The first case is you have proven yourself valuable enough to someone that they pay for your treatment
The second is where you have enough money to buy that treatment outright
The third is a case where citizens of that culture are given this rejuvenation treatment as part of their universal Medical coverage (similar to the Honor Harrington book series, where Prolong Treatment (https://honorverse.fandom.com/wiki/Prolong_Treatment) was part of the Manticoran Constitution)
So everyone ages normally, but the special characters have the connections/power/history to ignore some of the aging effects
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You could have it where rejuvenation treatment requires a number of XP equivalent to a valuable ally, XP equal to high value Wealth/Investments, or a sufficiently expensive background.
The first case is you have proven yourself valuable enough to someone that they pay for your treatment
The second is where you have enough money to buy that treatment outright
The third is a case where citizens of that culture are given this rejuvenation treatment as part of their universal Medical coverage (similar to the Honor Harrington book series, where Prolong Treatment (https://honorverse.fandom.com/wiki/Prolong_Treatment) was part of the Manticoran Constitution)
So everyone ages normally, but the special characters have the connections/power/history to ignore some of the aging effects
While I appreciated the idea. I was not looking for an answer to how to make this mechanic.
Again I don't see a point in making one for the game outside of allowing for the previous experience rules. As most games are not going to get anywhere close to the ages that it would become a factor. And the game can already easily handle the idea of a feeble old PC by just taking either a lower priority in attributes and higher skills or just assigning most of the points to mental attributes instead of physical ones.
Finally, as I have said before, if this is something you truly want in the game you can always write it up and I can add it as a part of the appendix.
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Allowing indefinite aging (effective immortality) is a fundamental game balance decision. Those who live forever have very different incentives than those designed to totally crush the next fight they're in...
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I am not really advocating indefinite aging.
What I am getting at is that not many campaigns last long enough for age to really be a factor without time jumps (20 year update) or generational mechanics (Pendragon RPG).
I also find AToWs take on aging to be just a XP sink that can easily be overcome by throwing more XP at it.
The issues with a similar setup for MW2 is the vast differences in attribute recovery/elevation in the latter.
Where you can just spend a few extra points to overcome it in AToW, with MW2 it can be close to crippling to lose a full point of an attribute (hence why it is reserved for critical injuries).
Overall, the idea of using a similar setup for MW2 goes out the window right away and I myself can't think of any good replacements nor am I really inclined to try as I don't see it as an important or needed addition to the game.
That said, as stated above, if this is something you truly want in the game you can always write it up and I can add it as a part of the appendix.
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My wife is headed out of town this weekend, so I should have some time to take a swing at it. Assuming a 50 year old has the same stats as an 18 year old is more than a little odd to me (being my youngest is about to turn 18, and I'm 50).
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Ok, after going back and forth a few times, I ended up going for maximum flexibility. Let me know what you think.
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Ok, after going back and forth a few times, I ended up going for maximum flexibility. Let me know what you think.
So It looks good, It needs a little bit of expanding.
As a base for making more experienced characters it is both tame enough not to overpower the less experienced PCs but also underdeveloped.
additions I would make include:
1. Rules stating that every 2 years equal a Tier/Pass
2. Paths with the following set-up
TOUR OF DUTY: CLAN
Requirements or Prerequisites: None
Time: 2 years (1 Tier per pass)
Allowed Skills: Career/Soldier, Navigation, Protocol/Affiliation, Unarmed Combat, Communications, Computer, Special Interest/Any, Perception, Technician/Any Relevant, Any MOS or FOS skill.
Advantages/Disadvantages: Bloodname, Combat Sense, Enemy, Connections, Well-Equipped, Lost Limb, Poor Vision,
Compulsion, Poor Hearing
3. Mark that characters are 18/21 at tier 0 , so they are 18/21 plus path time. As there are not age rules as of this time, this would allow for them to be added as a option if so desired by the GM.
4. I would drop the relative timeframe descriptions and leave that to the time entry and the GM/Player
5. Change the Vehicle point to +1 to Vehicle Priority (May only be added once per Tier).
6. I would add 1 Disadvantage point to Tier 1 and change the other tiers to the following;
See Below
I would also create two versions of each tier. A heroic level and a Standard Level. As it stands right now. I would say the numbers currently provided seem like they would be the to high for Standard and maybe even to low for Heroic.
Standard to me would be
Tier 0: 0xp 0 Disadvantage points
Tier 1: 2xp 1 Disadvantage points
Tier 2: 4xp 1 Disadvantage points
Tier 3: 6xp 2 Disadvantage points
Tier 4: 8xp 2 Disadvantage points
I suggest this as, 5 skill point can be a lot
As Disadvantages only go up to level 4 and these are majorly severe, I don't see a reason to go overboard with them
I would also drop the Attribute point increase as this would have a major impacts on the characters power.
Now if you want to keep it, I would limit it to a one time +1 bonus per tier requiring the expenditure of 2 XP.
Let me know what you think.
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Ah, I didn't realize you were still open to adding aging rules later. Cool! :thumbsup:
I think two years is too short per Tier. I think it should be at least four for Inner Sphere (normal) people. Clans could maybe go as short as three.
Going the "Path" route is a good way to limit choices. I wasn't sure you wanted to go there, since it would add another pretty lengthy chunk of text.
As far as disadvantages, I see "enemy" as one of those things you can have multiples of. Much the same with lost limbs/eyes/ears (see Admiral Lord Nelson).
Aside from that, I like the rest of what you suggested! :thumbsup:
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Ah, I didn't realize you were still open to adding aging rules later. Cool! :thumbsup:
I am always willing to add a rule that the community wants if only as a addition to the appendix.
I will myself not spend the time but if anyone else wants to I'm not going to say no.
I think two years is too short per Tier. I think it should be at least four for Inner Sphere (normal) people. Clans could maybe go as short as three.
I used the TOD in MW3 which has a 2 year tier (the lowest I found) as the base. It could be changed to 3 years (lowest in AToW)
Going the "Path" route is a good way to limit choices. I wasn't sure you wanted to go there, since it would add another pretty lengthy chunk of text.
For me its just adding another page to the book (an easy task in publisher). Layout is always the time consumer.
As far as disadvantages, I see "enemy" as one of those things you can have multiples of. Much the same with lost limbs/eyes/ears (see Admiral Lord Nelson).
While true, Most would be 1 level enemy's in my opinion, so the need to go that high are still not there. There is also the issues of what happens with Paths that don't have many or any disadvantages that can absorb the high disadvantage levels. you wind up with a bunch of one armed, one legged farmers hopping around.
Aside from that, I like the rest of what you suggested! :thumbsup:
cool let me know what you think of the above and if I can be more help.
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It all makes sense... too close to bed time tonight for more, but I think I'll have time while the snow is falling tomorrow... My wife acknowledged reality, and will be delaying her return. I'll still have work next week, though. We'll see how it goes! :thumbsup:
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So I was kind of bored and took a stab at rule for aging in MW2.
Tell me what you think, and what needs clarification.
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Hmmm... nice work, but I think you missed at least one factor. The US Army has acknowledged male strength increases at least into the 30's (see their physical readiness test standards... at worst, I would say female development hasn't been studied as closely). AToW's modifiers are a guide here (those plusses are based on reality). Of course, it depends on where you are on simulation vs. game play. Seriously, it's not all down hill as we age.
My shoulders didn't really come in until I hit my 40s, and I was able to run farther AND faster at 49 than at any time before in my life. Training counts for a lot. That said, my Dad has hit some of those mental penalties now that he's 80, and my sister-in-law (in her 70s) has hit some pretty serious physical penalties. Star League technology should have helped some of those specific issues, but not all of them. I think you nailed the 111+ line exactly right. During the height of the Star League, it might have been 121, but advances like that take extreme events to negate (and yes, many worlds in the First and Second Succession Wars experienced exactly that level of destruction... not so many as that until the Jihad era... there's a reason I prefer the late-Third/Fourth Succession War era... hope is springing anew then. TPTB have yet to achieve that level of hope in any later era).
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Hmmm... nice work, but I think you missed at least one factor. The US Army has acknowledged male strength increases at least into the 30's (see their physical readiness test standards... at worst, I would say female development hasn't been studied as closely). AToW's modifiers are a guide here (those plusses are based on reality). Of course, it depends on where you are on simulation vs. game play. Seriously, it's not all down hill as we age.
My shoulders didn't really come in until I hit my 40s, and I was able to run farther AND faster at 49 than at any time before in my life. Training counts for a lot. That said, my Dad has hit some of those mental penalties now that he's 80, and my sister-in-law (in her 70s) has hit some pretty serious physical penalties. Star League technology should have helped some of those specific issues, but not all of them. I think you nailed the 111+ line exactly right. During the height of the Star League, it might have been 121, but advances like that take extreme events to negate (and yes, many worlds in the First and Second Succession Wars experienced exactly that level of destruction... not so many as that until the Jihad era... there's a reason I prefer the late-Third/Fourth Succession War era... hope is springing anew then. TPTB have yet to achieve that level of hope in any later era).
I know you like to write essay to your point but could you brake it down to some bullet points for my aching head. ;D
1. To your first point, that's what the * Attributes are for. I may be convinced to remove the restrictions but it would take some convincing to do that. As I already think this is kind of overpowered. And should be left to the Experience system more.
2. Do you think that the Zero level restrictions are to high or should I make it (All skills involving the zero level attribute are now rolled as saving throws taking the worst two dice)
3. I took to the idea that only multiples of 100XP where change levels and that -100XP was a base line roll. Do you have any suggestions about this or does that work for you.
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The first poll is over and with the final results.
Special Forces IOSs stay as they are now. 60% of the votes.
New Poll added.
Jut a heads up. If the winner is a separate Sourcebook, the time till publishing for the Starleague info will be pushed out to after the MW2 optional rules are done so it could be awhile.
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I had no idea you could do multiple polls in a single thread... who knew? ???
I would move some of the asterisks to later tiers, at least. At the very least, I'm skeptical of penalties in a characters 30s and 40s.
As for the zero-level penalties, I think they're reasonable, if maybe they should be moved later in life.
My point about AToW is that the direction of the penalties/bonuses should give you some guidance on when to apply them under this system.
Does that help?
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I had no idea you could do multiple polls in a single thread... who knew? ???
Its more I modified the first poll and reset the results. :thumbsup:
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I would move some of the asterisks to later tiers, at least. At the very least, I'm skeptical of penalties in a characters 30s and 40s.
Not sure I follow.
There are no penalties in a characters 30s and 40s currently.
As for the * would one row at 30 or 40 be better, with the change to add +1 to one physical and one mental attribute work better.
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As for the zero-level penalties, I think they're reasonable, if maybe they should be moved later in life.
Again, I am a little confused on this one. Zero level penalties are not really set to any particular age bracket. It just a when you get there type of thing.
Now if you are saying it should be locked to the 111+ bracket, then while I see your point, I would argue that some people succumb to old age earlier then the set twilight years, especially when physical abuse is factored in.
I will say that I would propose that Zero level penalties should not be reachable out side of aging, so a minimum attribute level of 1 should be imposed before a PCs first age rolls.
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My point about AToW is that the direction of the penalties/bonuses should give you some guidance on when to apply them under this system.
Just to be clear I had the AToW age chart open when I was designing this document, so it did factor it to my decisions, and any changes where concuss one having to do with MW2s system.
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As long as you're taking AToW into account, it's all good! :thumbsup:
As for the asterisks, I wouldn't have any reduction chances at 25 or 31 (thus, no need for asterisks... males at least are still gaining physical stats into their 30s), and only physical ones at 41. Even the Singaporeans (who discharge all of their military by age 50) don't recognize any cognitive problems before that (absent a TBI of course, but that's a whole differenct category of disadvantage). That also applies to your point about moving things later in life. Again, I wouldn't apply any cognitive penalties at all before age 50.
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As long as you're taking AToW into account, it's all good! :thumbsup:
As for the asterisks, I wouldn't have any reduction chances at 25 or 31 (thus, no need for asterisks... males at least are still gaining physical stats into their 30s), and only physical ones at 41. Even the Singaporeans (who discharge all of their military by age 50) don't recognize any cognitive problems before that (absent a TBI of course, but that's a whole differenct category of disadvantage). That also applies to your point about moving things later in life. Again, I wouldn't apply any cognitive penalties at all before age 50.
I think you need to reread the * section, it's not a reduction its an addition.
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As for development, I was thinking it over and deciding if I should add an entry for skills.
Manly, a cost reduction 1/2 skill points for characters 17 and under and a increasing cost as characters age into the higher categories.
AP cost would remain the same. With a divided column for Clan and Innersphere.
The idea comes from a great Star Trek Academy game I played in (Last Unicorn/Decipher rules) where we were all academy cadets.
This would allow for Sibko/Academy level games without the worry of weakening the characters vs. fully generated ones.
It also handles the issues of reduced learning capacity for Clan members due to their overstructured society.
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Age rules take two
Changes
1. added a skill column to show the effects of age/culture on learning ability. (also kind of covers the Slow Learner disadvantage)
2. changed the zero level effects.
3. Some clarification.
let me know what you think.
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Ah, I did conflate the * section with the rest of the reductions. My lack of sleep is showing, sorry!
Also, I think it was the example that really threw me off. The 51 row only seems to have a TN+0 for REF, not BLD, so I was thinking ti applied all the time.
Shouldn't the "skill point" cost be "skill level" cost? ???
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Shouldn't the "skill point" cost be "skill level" cost? ???
No.
The normal cost to raise a skill one level in MW2 is AP equal to the new level and 10 skill points.
So what the column is referring to is the modified cost in skill points to rise a skill.
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Also, I think it was the example that really threw me off. The 51 row only seems to have a TN+0 for REF, not BLD, so I was thinking ti applied all the time.
That's my fault as the row original had a +0 TN at that location that I removed. (Need to fix that)
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No.
The normal cost to raise a skill one level in MW2 is AP equal to the new level and 10 skill points.
So what the column is referring to is the modified cost in skill points to rise a skill.
Ah, so we're using post creation leveling then? ???
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Ah, so we're using post creation leveling then? ???
That column is not for use with character creation. It is for early start games (Academy/Sibko themed) and after that it depends on how long the campaign last. All character creation rules are still used as written. I put it in there to cover the idea of quitting character creation before you get to the Schools and running the game as new recruits at an Academy or just arriving for Sibko training to add a new campaign dimension to the possibilities available to your game. As for the later year entries, they are there to portray the Clans overstructured education system and the stagnation of there warriors. It also covers the Slow Learner trait that is missing due to me dropping Slow Learner and Fast Learner from the game.
The rest of the columns are used for character creation but at the very end. You would finish creation and Previous Experience if using that option, then run through the brackets one at a time till you reach your current age bracket. (Normally not changing much)
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by the way I updated the file with fixes and explanations of how to use them.
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Cool! :thumbsup:
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Update 1.6 (Getting close to the end)
Additions
1. Load-Bearing Equipment and Rules.
2. Aging rules
3. Weapon accessories
4. Character sheet (Not the final one as it's kind of lame)
5. Carrying capacity and encumbrance.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5liwnsqmbbl32v7/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.6.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5liwnsqmbbl32v7/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%201.6.pdf?dl=0)
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So as the poll has reached a point where the chances of any other result winning is doubtful, I guess its time to call it.
So The Starleague/Golden Age will get its own Sourcebook.
Since the MW2 Option book is one section from complete does any one have request for added material for this book.
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Here is my run at the Previous Experience Rules (Optional Rules)
Would love to here your feedback Daryk before I throw it in (its easier to edit in Word)
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13 hours today in the five-sided PowerPoint collider... And the prospects for the rest of the week are for making up the alleged day off yesterday. Can you wait until the snowmageddon this weekend?
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13 hours today in the five-sided PowerPoint collider... And the prospects for the rest of the week are for making up the alleged day off yesterday. Can you wait until the snowmageddon this weekend?
Im really not in any hurry.
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Cool! Please poke me on Friday as a reminder... :thumbsup:
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Update
I have been working on Appendix IV: Academy Days
This will be a optional way of starting a campaign during the PCs Academy or Sibko days.
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Cool! Please poke me on Friday as a reminder... :thumbsup:
Poke :whip:
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Thanks for the reminder... my prediction for the rest of last week came true (12-13 hour days for the duration... at least I secured a direct order not to work this weekend). Next week looks worse, if anything. I'll see what I can do this weekend. If the Russians do what they're threatening, I expect to be working weekends for the duration. I really didn't expect DC working hours to be like Baghdad...
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My edits are attached. I like how you're approaching this problem! :thumbsup:
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My edits are attached. I like how you're approaching this problem! :thumbsup:
Here's version 2 with suggested changes and responses to comments
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I only see one response comment... I had thought you were trying to limit the number of paths, and combining Agitator and Insurgent is near the top of my list for that. If you're good with the extra module, it works for me. The differences between the two are kind of subtle, but they are there.
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Here is the newest update
Some minor changes here and there.
1. gave up on Piloting having a different attribute set (didn't hold up in play)
2. made some modifications to affiliations after test character (Wolf Clan) kept getting Obsession/Clan Honor
3. some minor changes to the aging table and the addition of Fast Learner as an option.
4. Academy campaign rules added as Appendix 4.
5. Previous Experience rules added as Appendix 5
Note: This is the final beta before I finalize the book. all errata, changes, grippes need to be in before I post the next and final link.
So this will be the final posted update.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/065947xsn0p9fbc/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%20%28Final%20Beta%29.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/065947xsn0p9fbc/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules%20%28Final%20Beta%29.pdf?dl=0)
Also, I am looking for any submissions for Character sheets that support the new system.
My attempt leaves a lot to be desired.
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I only see one response comment... I had thought you were trying to limit the number of paths, and combining Agitator and Insurgent is near the top of my list for that. If you're good with the extra module, it works for me. The differences between the two are kind of subtle, but they are there.
Most of the rest of it was just grammar or me being stupid so there was no need to respond lol.
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Sounds good... what's your deadline for input? I don't think I have any more, but if I do spot something... :)
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Sounds good... what's your deadline for input? I don't think I have any more, but if I do spot something... :)
Looking to have it over and done with by Feb 6th at the latest. Figure that give everyone two weeks to get back with issues.
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Cool, thanks! :thumbsup:
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Sounds good... what's your deadline for input? I don't think I have any more, but if I do spot something... :)
What I need most is people other then me running a bunch of different types of PC through character creation to find any flaws or hiccups.
That is what I am going to be doing for most of the two weeks, but I have my own way of making characters (mostly themed) so I tend to miss easily exploited mechanics if they don't fit my themes.
So lot of creation test runs would be great.
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No promises on that... I may be working next weekend.
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Poll results
So the voting on the Starleague Era Information as a appendix entry is done.
While the results were pretty final
Should the Starleague/Golden Era Information be its own separate sourcebook and expanded (4 votes)
Should the Starleague/Golden Era Information be left in the core area of the book in it's current locations (2 Votes)
I have decided to go for an in the middle answer to the question.
I will leave it as a Appendix in the main release and explained it into its own full release in the future.
No promises on when that will be as I have other projects still waiting for me to finish.
New Poll.
As the new poll states, I am looking for forum opinion on the new Academy Days Appendix. As I stated earlier, this is more of a work of nostalgia for me as I have fond memories of play the Star Trek TNG RPG - Starfleet Academy box set and think it would fit great into the BTU with some modifications. Want to get others opinion on if this is something they want or just going to be a side project just for me.
As for answer #3: As the Appendix stands now, it uses the post character creation advancement system which you can see leave a lot to be desired in an academy system where advancement is pretty structured. The idea behind this answer is to set up the campaign to use the same system as character creation to smooth this over a bit. This would depend on fully fleshed out classes as show below handling the skills from the package's and electives. Any play outside the academy (Bar fights, Dorm room hijinks, etc.) would be handled as normal character advancement with PCs spending them how they see fit. With this type of structure you are essentially doing the Academy/Warrior package selection along side playing the normal game, so you would not have to worry about specials mechanics or giving the proper amount of AP/SP for PC to reach the package levels as they will be built in to the game progression.
This was how it was handled in the Star Trek TNG RPG - Starfleet Academy box set and I think it will work well here.
Example:
Course:BMC 300.The Principles of Mechanized Mobility
Text: Text about the course
Skill: requirement to enter. Example: Piloting/Battlemech level 2
Course Curriculum: Tests, Lectures, Practical's, Etc. (Mostly for Role Playing)
Results: What you get for completing the course. Example: Piloting/Battlemech level 3
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First Academy Days update.
As stated in the Poll and previous post I have put some work into creating an in character creation campaign for run PCs through their academy days.
As it stands now this is how it will look in the final draft of MW2 optional rules.
Still missing the course descriptions but ran out of time for now (RL calls)
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Here are the finished (To the best of my skill) Character sheet and Character creation worksheet.
This should help with the test characters and normal game play in general.
As for the main-book, I have the outline of the table of contains done.
I have also finished most of the layout of academy days and the outline of the Class listings done.
Still on target for the planed release date.
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I recommend making the Disadvantages in the "opposed" table red like the ones in the other table for consistency.
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I recommend making the Disadvantages in the "opposed" table red like the ones in the other table for consistency.
I didn't think it was necessary due to the natural separation of the two columns, but if it will help I will change it.
Other then that, how do they look and did I miss anything important.
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The skill blocks are different on the two pages... was that deliberate? ???
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The skill blocks are different on the two pages... was that deliberate? ???
If your talking about the fact that they have different columns, then yes.
The ones on the worksheet are for character creation, Name: Name of skill, Level: the level received, Cost: number of skill points spent, Bonus Points: Used to keep tracked of extra skill points that don't get you to a full level. Example: If you have Small Arms level 2 and you receive Small Arms level 1 from some where else you would have 1 SP to add to the bonus column.
The ones on the character sheet are the standard ones from the corebook.
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Ah, ok... I'm not sure that's going to be obvious to everyone.
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Ah, ok... I'm not sure that's going to be obvious to everyone.
I went ahead and added and explanation to the Character creation guide and Character optional rule.
As an aside, I have found that the Course list in the Academy days section was becoming overwhelming so I am knocking it down to just a list of skills and suggested names for the courses with a course description template for the GM.
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Good idea! :thumbsup:
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Good idea! :thumbsup:
Hey, I know you have been busy lately with all the junk going on overseas but when you have a moment could you take a look at this and give me your thoughts.
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Downloaded! 13.5 hours yesterdary and over 11 today... Might be the weekend before I have enough brain cells to give you a coherent answer, even though I see it's only a couple of pages. That suggests the density of content is more than I can process at the moment...
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Academy days looks interesting but not sure it should be core rules
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Academy days looks interesting but not sure it should be core rules
Yeah that could be. That's why I setup the poll.
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Just a heads-up. My laptop is having fan issues so I may not be able to get the book out this weekend as I will not be able to get any work done on it. Sorry :'(
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we understand
'
i'm going into work to clean up water.. from snow melting yesterday, snow/sleet now 8)
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No worries... one near death experience later, I'm in no shape to give coherent advice. It's been a long time since I did a 360 on a freeway... :o
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No worries... one near death experience later, I'm in no shape to give coherent advice. It's been a long time since I did a 360 on a freeway... :o
been there done that.
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I gotta catch up on all this
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I gotta catch up on all this
welcome back.
Info for getting up to date.
1. The current version is the final beta in the dropbox link. Just a heads-up, I change my mind and will be releasing one more beta before I release the finished book..
2. There have been some changes to the book, mostly minor but some change the way some skills and sections work.
3. The character sheet and Character creation worksheet are available as a separate download in one of my last post.
4. Please if you have not done so already vote in the above Poll.
5. If you want to look it over and weigh in on it Academy Days in also available in its current form for download above.
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Just a heads-up. My laptop is having fan issues so I may not be able to get the book out this weekend as I will not be able to get any work done on it. Sorry :'(
Update, my laptop seems to be trashed, (It can't find the HD) I will try to get it running at a later date but the good news is that the HD is fine and I was able to put it in my USB HD caddy and get all the Info over to my Desktop that I just got working again (it's less powerful then my Laptop so I normally don't use it.)
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Glad you were able to save the data! :thumbsup:
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Here's my edit of the Academy Days document, and I agree with DOC about it being appendix or expansion material rather than core. :thumbsup:
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After looking over Daryk's edit of the document I'd have to say it feels a lot look a supplement and I would catalog it as such. Therefore I voted for its on book. Mechwarrior 2 Supplemental? I'd think what core fanbook you are working on should be Mechwarrior 2 Update. ;)
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Good idea Takiro! :thumbsup:
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Here's my edit of the Academy Days document, and I agree with DOC about it being appendix or expansion material rather than core. :thumbsup:
It is already an Appendix?
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After looking over Daryk's edit of the document I'd have to say it feels a lot look a supplement and I would catalog it as such. Therefore I voted for its on book. Mechwarrior 2 Supplemental? I'd think what core fanbook you are working on should be Mechwarrior 2 Update. ;)
So you don't like the name LOL.
If it's not to much trouble to re format it I'll change it and we will have 2 Supplemental
Mechwarrior 2 Supplemental: Starleague Era
Mechwarrior 2 Supplemental: Academy Days
:thumbsup:
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That sounds like a great way to do it! :thumbsup:
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Sounds good bud!
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No worries... one near death experience later, I'm in no shape to give coherent advice. It's been a long time since I did a 360 on a freeway... :o
so was that a flat spin??? or did you get air??
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Started on pavement, glided up the embankment backwards, ended up in the grass between the two on ramps facing the right direction. Made a phone call, started it up, got back on the OTHER on ramp, and drove back to the Pentagon. Parked, made another phone call, got a strange look from two pedestrians, finally got out of the car, and flipped the ffont bumper back down. Went back to my office, cleared the 101 e-mails that had come in while I was out, then drove home... Yes, there was alcohol when I was safely in the house!
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i did mine when I had a blow out of the driver front tire while going around this (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Scarbough+maine+map&t=newext&atb=v277-1&ia=web&iaxm=maps&strict_bbox=1&bbox=43.63207556982964%2C-70.32140061077881%2C43.62629008482327%2C-70.31276389775086) years ago...
End up somehow missing the guard rails on both sides... but I'm pretty sure when the cop who watched it, came up and knocked on my window.. I was sure grim reaper was coming for me.
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Just a heads-up.
While I have made a lot of progress on the project, my new laptop is stuck in shipping and my current desktop is unreliable as it can be during uploads/downloads (keeps page faulting if I put to much of a workload on it).
So I will be waiting on the laptop before I start doing any real effort/uploads.
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Good luck with the shipping! :thumbsup:
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Good luck with the shipping! :thumbsup:
Already had issues, it got delayed again because UPS can't seem to get it together.
That said I still have to wait sine my desktop is trash, bought my laptop ($2,000) when I went back to college in 2015 and so I didn't update my desktop. My desktop then to a dive my junior year, and since it was far less powerful than my laptop I just left it to gather dust. Turns out it has a one dead and two bad dimms and it seem that the OS has some bad or broken files. It is so bad that I can't transfer files directly from one drive to the other (I have a HD caddy) I have to upload it to my Dropbox (takes between 2-3 tries) then download them to my laptop HD. It's a piece of junk :'(
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Yikes! :o
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Yikes! :o
When it gets bad it takes about 6-8 minutes to change tabs on chrome and it was taking upwards of 1 min just to move a window from one side of the screen to the other.
Man I want my new computer. UPS get it together.
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Indeed... and I thought the duelling security software I have to put up with at work was bad. xp
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Yeah I just got the email saying that they are loading my computer on the delivery truck right now, so I will get it today. :D
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Woo! :thumbsup:
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So its almost five in the morning and I "just" finished setting up my new new Laptop.
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Ouch... they seem to be harder to set up these days..
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Ouch... they seem to be harder to set up these days..
yes and they are.. I have had to set up a new Apple a year ago, because mine.. blew the Harddrive and Battery all at once
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Now that's some serious pain... were you able to salvage any of the data? ???
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Now that's some serious pain... were you able to salvage any of the data? ???
Data what data.. battery took out Hard drive.. thankfully I had backed up most things like month earlier
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Oof... at least you only lost a month... :-\
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Ouch... they seem to be harder to set up these days..
Most of the time was spent reinstalling needed programs (Office/Publisher/Acrobat/Etc.)
And since I could not directly connect the old hd to the new laptop, moving files from the old hd to my desktop to my storage drive to my laptop.
Just thinking about it gives me a headache.
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Oof... at least you only lost a month... :-\
yeah give or take..
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My wife is still finding things the shop didn't move... :P
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So I will be dropping the finished book this weekend barring any issues. The other two will be on a when I get to them bases.
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Glad to hear it! :thumbsup:
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Glad to hear it! :thumbsup:
Yeah I'm going to get back to my work on my Mystara 5th Ed. conversion for my personal campaign. This was a fun side project, but since it is not what I am running right now and my group is getting back together and work is picking up again I will not have the time in the future to do much work on this.
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All good! You really poured some effort into this one. Enjoy your campaign! :thumbsup:
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Final Release.
So here it is.
If you find any issues leave a post here I will keep an eye with this tread.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0)
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The cover is a lovely homage to the OG Mechwarrior RPG! :thumbsup:
I'll take a look at the rest later this weekend. :)
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Looks good so far!
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Spotted a typo on page 10: Investigation should be 18-(Learn+Willpower), not (Learn=Willpower).
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Spotted a typo on page 10: Investigation should be 18-(Learn+Willpower), not (Learn=Willpower).
Thanks for the report.
I will gather up all reported typos/errors and release a error corrected version some time in the future.
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Sounds like a plan... I'll let you know if I spot any others. :)
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Page 15, in the note under the Trueborn package, "quick" should be "quirk".
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Page 15, in the note under the Trueborn package, "quick" should be "quirk".
If two typos are all you got I may just leave it as is. Gives it more of a true battletech feel. ;D
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It's been 12-13 hour days (and not because of the news) for the last couple of weeks. When the weekend comes, all I want to do is SLEEP... :P
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It's been 12-13 hour days (and not because of the news) for the last couple of weeks. When the weekend comes, all I want to do is SLEEP... :P
sorry to hear that. I thought it was funny. LOL
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It WAS a good joke, I'm just living with Baghdad rules right now: I say I'm working half-days, mean 12 hours, and it's a GOOD thing...
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If two typos are all you got I may just leave it as is. Gives it more of a true battletech feel. ;D
the good old school FASA lack of proofreading
It WAS a good joke, I'm just living with Baghdad rules right now: I say I'm working half-days, mean 12 hours, and it's a GOOD thing...
Daryk, my life has started being back to normal, I now have a regular day off again. Hopefully your will again soon.
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Thanks DOC, me too! :)
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The problem with the Marine Combat Suit is in the construction rules. Exoskeletons are totally available in 3025, but for some reason they tied environmental sealing to actual BA armor, which you don't get until after the Helm core now. That's yet another pet rock of mine...
I know I'm way behind on this one, but I have to ask, what color is that one painted?
^-^
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This is were we differ on things, while I agree that time in grade does bring experience. The idea that you/I have to be older to be good at something flies in the face of prodigies and natural talented people. The Black Widow and other famous NPCs like her were good out the gate and got better with age. The biggest problem with the AToW system is that it doesn't portray this well or in some cases at all.
That said, if you want to write up some ideas for a "4th stage" option I will look it over and add it to the appendix, if not there is no point in addressing it here.
Again, coming in late:
But would a point-buy system work better. I thought MW 2 had something like that, already, though. But, I bring it up because that has been how one of my groups handles character generation for Pathfinder, and I find that if you're really wanting to generate a prodigy, that helps break the mold.
Most point-buy systems are about attributes. But, maybe work something up for skills and talents, if you haven't already.
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I know I'm way behind on this one, but I have to ask, what color is that one painted?
^-^
All my pet rocks are UN-painted... ^-^
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Again, coming in late:
But would a point-buy system work better. I thought MW 2 had something like that, already, though. But, I bring it up because that has been how one of my groups handles character generation for Pathfinder, and I find that if you're really wanting to generate a prodigy, that helps break the mold.
Most point-buy systems are about attributes. But, maybe work something up for skills and talents, if you haven't already.
The problem is min-maxing more then anything else.
How do you allow a prodigy without everyone becoming one. The split system of MW 2 does alright with the attribute changes I add.
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All my pet rocks are UN-painted... ^-^
So they have a little blue 'hat' on top?
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I know I'm way behind on this one, but I have to ask, what color is that one painted?
^-^
Bye the way welcome back. :thumbsup:
Not sure how far back you went in the thread, but the current (Last version) of the PDF has a link listed earlier in the thread.
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Nope, they are hatless too! 8)
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I fell away from the boards on page 6 of this thread.
Nope, they are hatless too! 8)
Well, I want my rocks to be exhibitionists, too. Most of them have some very attractive attributes, being agates, and all.
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I fell away from the boards on page 6 of this thread.
Well, I want my rocks to be exhibitionists, too. Most of them have some very attractive attributes, being agates, and all.
Of course you want quality rocks, nobody wants their rock to be a piece of schist (apologies mods)
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Of course you want quality rocks, nobody wants their rock to be a piece of schist (apologies mods)
Be gneiss! You can't take all of victor_shaw's hard work for granite. Nor Daryk's pet rocks. (I hope you didn't pay too much for them, Daryk.)
I'll get rolling on catching up, soon. xp
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Be gneiss! You can't take all of victor_shaw's hard work for granite. Nor Daryk's pet rocks. (I hope you didn't pay too much for them, Daryk.)
I'll get rolling on catching up, soon. xp
I would say it was a labor of love, but then I got to the equipment section.
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2nd Edition revised and expanded.
Since my home life and lack of spaces have put any chances of running a campaign (for anything) on hold and I am sick to death of most of my PC games. I have decided to return to work on the "MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule" probably to Wrangler chagrin. This will mean:
1. a major rewrite for some sections. (Some areas like Washout never really gelled)
2. The removal of some rules from the appendix to be fully implemented into the core option. (Age, Previous Experience, etc.)
3. The addition of some new sections that I started working on and abandoned due to time. (Random event rules, etc.)
4. The full addition of the Academy Days rules as a section in the core book.
5. Starleague Era as a complete section and not just a appendix add-on.
6. A full update of all Schools to meet set parameters
a. Schools from the FMs seemed to be unbalanced with each other.
b. I want to give each of the new schools a unique feel.
7. Better explanations and a full step by step run through of the optional creation system. (current one is just an outline)
And other additions I or the forum can come up with.
And before you ask, no Daryk, I am not rewriting the power cells :smirk:
PS: A new polls will be used to gain reactions to the changes and additions.
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Darn! :D
I'll be here to help as needed anyway! :thumbsup:
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2d6 - MW2 was a 2d6 game - I think revisions should strive to keep it that way
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AToW is too, and I fought hard to keep it that way. :)
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AToW is too, and I fought hard to keep it that way. :)
2d6 - MW2 was a 2d6 game - I think revisions should strive to keep it that way
What my thought to, just wanted to make sure everyone else was on board.
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We're definitely on the same page there! :thumbsup:
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So the current poll is about the roll of 12 on the random charts. As they stand now, the current entry IMHO overpowered.
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I think choose or roll two is a bit much. Choose alone would keep things more balanced.
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Note: Shaw's book MW 2nd Optional Rules is now on BattleTech Fanon Wiki (https://battletechfanon.fandom.com/wiki/MechWarrior_Second_Edition_Optional_Rules_(RPG)), so it can be found more easily.
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Glad to hear it! :thumbsup:
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Note: Shaw's book MW 2nd Optional Rules is now on BattleTech Fanon Wiki (https://battletechfanon.fandom.com/wiki/MechWarrior_Second_Edition_Optional_Rules_(RPG)), so it can be found more easily.
Just a heads up the author is wrong.
Coby Stevenson is the artist for the cover art.
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Just a heads up the author is wrong.
Coby Stevenson is the artist for the cover art.
I fixed it
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First update for 2nd edition.
I chose to tackle the more time consuming section first since there is already a book available.
This way I can work them out and not be constrained by an arbitrary time limit.
Current section: Random Roll Charts.
1. All charts have been mitigated to reduce (but not eliminate!) the chance of being booted out of your desired path. (A roll of 2 can still be bad)
2. All time frames offer one free reroll.
3. The previous experiences charts, will offer a choice to sacrifice a 1 PXP to gain a second reroll (but only one).
4. Currently Charts either have a major reward for rolling a 12 or you get to choose.
5. Charts are build using CP where 1 CP= 1 Advantage/Disadvantage, 1 Attribute, or 2 Skill points
6. Charts are being build on a zero-sum system which means the all entries on the chart (by CP) when added together = 0
7. Random rolls are part of the main rules for life paths, but can be ignored without changing the system.
8. While balances between each other and within the charts themselves, they will cause discrepancies between PCs total Advantage/Disadvantage, Attribute, Skill. That part can't be helped.
9. A major change that will be noted in the rules is, any major impairments such as lost limb, poor vision, etc., will be assumed to have been corrected by the proper medical device. This will be at the minimum level required to overcome the impairment to take your choosing profession. Anything of a higher level will be required to be gained during play.
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If you ignore the rolls, do you just take the 7 result? ???
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If you ignore the rolls, do you just take the 7 result? ???
No, when I say ignore the roll, I mean you don't get anything from the charts.
it's just like if the charts don't exists.
This is a option that PCs and GMs can agree on before creation begins.
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Ah, ok... that makes sense. :thumbsup:
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So a correction brought on by a few test runs.
I am changing the reroll rules to a total of two rerolls for all sections.
During School the player can sacrifice 2 skill points to gain a second reroll (but only one), from either bonus or unspent or a combination of the two.
As written a player can give up a 1 PXP to gain a second reroll (but only one per pass).
The one per section rules did not seem to work as it took away the danger of random rolling.
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Sounds reasonable to me! :thumbsup:
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So is the book been re-edited?
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So is the book been re-edited?
Not quite sure what the question is.
If you are asking will the layout change yes.
But it will be some time before the new one is ready.
Overall the basic changes will be additions and corrections.
Full list at this point includes:
1. a major rewrite for some sections. I was never truly happy with the washout section. It works but has issues with flow within the creation system.
2. The removal of some rules from the appendix to be fully implemented into the core option. Aging and Previous Experience, currently feel like they are tacked on and again don't flow well.
3. The addition of some new sections that I started working on and abandoned due to time. Random event rules where one of the areas that I think 3rd edition shined. The problems where that the rules where too extreme as written. This version will provide the rewards for taking the chance, but not cripple the PC for a bad roll or two.
4. The full addition of the Academy Days rules as a section in the core book. Wishful thinking, but the rule are in a sense done. The only issues being that the extended information was only about half done.
5. Starleague Era as a complete section and not just a appendix add-on. As it currently stands, this section is out of the way and hard to uses since it is removed to the back. I want it to be more accessible, and involve less page turning to make a character from this era. If time permits where it currently is in the book will be replaced by a Jihad/post-Jihad section of the book. This one is after hours of my players/friend blasting me for letting my personal feeling about this Era get in the way of a complete book.
6. A full update of all Schools to meet set parameters. Currently the new schools are more a best guess at what they should be. Some are almost carbon copies of each other based on info from the field manuals adjusted here or there. I plan to bring all the schools in line with each other and balance them to some existent. As they stand, some schools are powerful with no real cost or drawback and others are weak with no real benefits. I also want to give each of the New/Old schools a unique feel. Some already have this with their bonus, but some just feel no better then "this school give a +1 in this skill".
7. Better explanations and a full step by step run through of the optional creation system.
Now unlike the first edition, I will not be releasing the book until it is complete.
The forum will be used as a test for ideas and new mechanics, but these releases will just include small bits of information or what is required to test the new mechanic.
The Polls will be used when I hit forks in the road to find out what people think is the best way to handle things.
So if the question is will you have to redo the archive entry.
Then yes, but not for more then a year maybe two.
Till then the 1st edition is functional and I have no indentions of taking it down till its done.
If there is call for it (people like what they like) I may leave it up even after I am done.
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The overall, the main reason for the change to the rules as currently written will be integration.
The idea is the book as a whole will be used to make your character as a opposed to some a buffet style take what you want ignore the rest document.
A major change will be the "Blue Rules". These will be rules that can be dropped without destroying all the other rules in the book. (Radom events is one of these)
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Sounds like a plan! 8)
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Not quite sure what the question is.
So if the question is will you have to redo the archive entry.
Then yes, but not for more then a year maybe two.
Till then the 1st edition is functional and I have no indentions of taking it down till its done.
If there is call for it (people like what they like) I may leave it up even after I am done.
No worries, it was what I meant if you had already updated the book that I had downloaded recently and if should change entry for the book for the wiki page.
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So I hate to do this, but I got some bad news about the health and families of two of my very good friends today.
Having to leave work for a mental health day because of it.
So while I may continue to work on this during this time, I will not be posting for awhile.
Yes I am ok so don't worry about me.
I just need time to myself to process.
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Take all the time you need... we'll be here when you return.
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Best wishes bud, hope everything works out.
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Good Luck Victor, hope everything goes well.
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Best wishes bud, hope everything works out.
Good Luck Victor, hope everything goes well.
Take all the time you need... we'll be here when you return.
Thanks all.
So I have been working on the issues of random rolls in MW2 character creation.
The main issues have been:
1. The different life section of the rules tend to uses different systems to complete.
2. Random rolls seem to have to much flex in the rewards vs. penalties.
3. There never seems to be a reason other then taste to pick anything other then #11 on a roll of 12.
4. Too many of the tables seem to come off as copies of each other with different text.
5. Because of the limited bonus from Early/Late Childhood to start with, the tables seem to weak or to powerful. Have only been able to get a good result from a generic table that kind of defeats the purpose of the rules.
6. The tables really don't seem to work with the education system presented in the MW2 game as they are hyper balanced to the skills points provided.
7. On a positive note, the rules seem to work well with the current previous experience rules.
Overall, after weeks of work, I have completed some rudimentary rules for testing and have not been overly happy with the results.
So as of now I am dropping these rules and moving on to system integration for the current rules and their updates.
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That makes perfect sense! :thumbsup:
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That makes perfect sense! :thumbsup:
The original plan was to hit the hard (New) stuff first then move on to the fixes and errata, but this has lead to loads of wasted time on rules that just don't work or may take way to much time to integrate.
The new plan is to work from easiest to hardest so I have a complete base to work from before I move on to the harder rules that require the other rules for a baseline.
New Plans:
1. Fully flesh out the new and updated skills. Some of the New/Updated skills are redounded or overlapping with little to no explanation and need some refining.
2. Still some missing skills need to be handled. (Martial Arts, expanded Science skill, Special Interest vs. Career, etc.)
3. Sensor Ops. will be rolled into Computers as a specialization. Example: Computer/"Mech/Aero/etc." systems. The skill Sensor Ops. just seems unnecessary and steps on the feet of the already available Computers Skill. And specialization fixes this nicely.
4. Advantages and Disadvantages have way to many separate sections (Lost Limbs/Prosthetics/Slow-Fast Learner/etc.) that need to be better integrated to fit within the system instead of being sections on their own.
5. Compulsions are going to be expanded and renamed with the current working title "Constraints", but I am open to a better name. Have added two new categories, Stigma (1), and Condition (2). The first covers more social issues and the later covers mental medical conditions that don't reach the level of Psychosis.
6. Schools will receive a balancing makeover. In their current state there is to much overlap (me being lazy and just coping with some modification), and to may schools with little to offer and costing to much to enter (Both mine and FASA schools). This will be fixed by using a balancing point system that will be available in the appendix for making new schools. Just to be clear, the system will not make the schools balanced vs. each others (going to NAIS is not the same as going to a Enlistment Bootcamp). It will make the schools balanced vs. the creations system. If you are willing to spent the skill/advantage point you will get rewarded (The cost will equal the reward).
7. Also coming will be a rewrite of the Clan packages to better incorporate the changes to skills and advantages and add some flavor to the different Clans training forms.
8. I will be adding more to Vehicle combat expansion including a fully RPG Vehicle combat system that will intergrade elements of Alpha Strike/Battleforce and some of the hit charts from the "RPG that will not be named", most just the new hit location sheets (only good part of that system).
Lots of work here so I better get started. :thumbsup:
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I recommend leaving Sensor Ops separate from Computer. Computer encompasses programming, which is a VERY different skill than interpreting what a sensor system is giving you.
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I recommend leaving Sensor Ops separate from Computer. Computer encompasses programming, which is a VERY different skill than interpreting what a sensor system is giving you.
Just to be clear as I am not sure how rusty your knowledge of MW2 is.
First, Sensor ops is not a skill in MW2, I added it just to facilitate the detection rules I added to the system.
Second, the computer skill is already used in MW2 to avoid shutdown in a mech.
Thirds, as a specialization, Computer/”Vehicle” Systems, When using a specialized skill, apply a -1 modifier to all skill rolls when the skill use involves an area of specialization. For all other uses of the skill, add a +1 modifier to the skill roll meaning that the PC would need level 2 just to have a skill level of one for other usages.
Fourth, Computer in MW2 is used for all interactions with computer system not just Programing.
Finally, I am trying to avoid having to may required skills to become a MechWarrior/Aerospace/Vehicle pilot.
So instead of have a PC have both Computer and Sensor ops as a requirement. I thought it would be better to bring it down to one skill.
Now an option that I was thinking about was getting rid of Sensor ops and instead of Computer/”Vehicle” Systems just having a New skill called Vehicle Systems/"Vehicle type" to replace them both.
One of the major changes to the book is a move from "Optional Rules" to "Advanced Rule". So instead of the book being a group of optional rule that have to fit with the current rules, these rules can override and replace existing rule. Saves me from having to try to shoehorn the options into the existing system. It also let me modify areas of the rules to better fit together.
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Vehicle Systems works for me, and I would require a specialization.
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Vehicle Systems works for me, and I would require a specialization.
Works for me.
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So slightly off topic.
Got my copy of CountersPack: BattleForce today.
First impressions:
The Laminated Inner Sphere at War map (2786 & 3025) looks great.
The Laminated Strategic BattleForce map is very nice and well detailed (more so then the original)
The Unit and Command counters are extremely sturdy, but the detail is gravely lacking compared to the BattleForce: faction pack PDFs that where available before.
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Thanks for the review! :thumbsup:
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So as stated the Education section of the book is receiving a major overhaul. Below you will find the chapter rules and an example school. Please review and post any questions or comments.
Major Academy and University Packages
While there are an untold number of military training facilities across the Innersphere, each of the great and minor houses have academies that rise above the rest. Below you will find the most prominent academies and universities of the Innersphere.
Major Academy and University Rules
Each package is made up of Requirements, Packages, Bonuses, and Courses Provided.
Requirements: These are the Advantages, Life Paths, and Entry rolls required to attend the Academy. Any player planning to enter the academy must spend the required Advantage points and make the Saving rolls at their PCs current attribute level. If a Path is required, the prospective student must have selected the Path in Early/Late Childhood to be eligible for entry.
Packages: These are the Packages available at this academy. No other packages are available. Player wishing to attend the academy must be able to purchase the lowest cost package to attend.
Bonus: Each academy provides rewards for graduating from such a prestigious academy. These rewards come in the form of Bonus Skill points, Assigned skills, Advantages, and sometimes special rules that follow the PC through out the campaign. Bonus skills points are “skill points” that may be assigned to any skills within the indicated categories. Examples include Any Skill (Any), Basic Training (BT), Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), Field of Study (FOS), or sometime a specific category of skills like: Technician or Piloting. These bonus skills follow the rules presented on pg. xx for use of bonus skill. Assigned skills are gained at the level listed, if the PC already has the listed skill these are converted into skill points that can only be assigned to the listed skill. If this raises the skill to the next level the new level is gain, if this falls short, the points are saves until the later phases of character creation. See pg. xx
In this section you will sometimes gain Disadvantages that are associated with the school, these are not optional and must be addressed in play to be removed (cannot be bought off during character creation).
Courses Provided: This entry shows all (GM may adjust) the Individual training packages provided by the academy. If a MOS/FOS is not listed, then the school does not have a program for that occupation. Note this does not limit the skills available at the academy, Bonus skills (Any) may be assigned to a skill not listed in the packages provided.
Capellan Confederation Schools
All Capellan Academies require the PC to be Citizens.
Capella War College (2270)
The heavy workload of the Capella War College promotes a "sink or swim" attitude among the students, who are among the best the Confederation has to offer. Physical training suffers for the pace, and it is hard for recruits to stand out for special recognition among their peers. The competition is fierce with battlefield camaraderie on the training grounds giving way to jealous rivalries across campus. Despite the pressures, the War College is the most sought-after of the Capellan academies for its training regimen. Its graduates rarely hesitate to rub their pedigree in the face of alumni from other academies, especially the Sian Center for Martial Disciplines.
Requirements: Must have one of the following: Contact (1), Nobility Path, or Military School Path.
Mental Saving roll (+1 TN) Failure = entry denied
Package: Basic or Advanced University
Bonus: SI/Capellan History (1), SI/Capellan Philosophies (2), Enemy (-1), Quirk/Elitism (-1). If Character has the Fast Learner advantage gain: two more Enemy (-1) (May be combined)
Military: Strategy (1), Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (2), Combat Sense (2),
Civilian: Bonus Skill +5 (COS/HOS)
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training (Capellan Confederation), Basic Training (Naval)
MOS: Battlemech Pilot, Aerospace Pilot, Cavalry, Infantry, Dropship Pilot, Marine, Specialist (Recon), Armored Infantry
FOS: Military Science, Jumpship Pilot
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Just a heads up.
The Bonus Skill entries my seem like a lot, but remember, skill advancement in MW2 character creations is 1+2+3+4+etc. not adding to reach a set number.
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It might be a little clearer if you talk about "Assigned Skills" under Packages instead of Bonus.
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It might be a little clearer if you talk about "Assigned Skills" under Packages instead of Bonus.
Problem is packages are an entirely different thing.
Packages are the Academy or University package you pay for.
Assigned Skills are the "extra" full skill levels you get in skills that are not part of the package.
But I can see that it could be hard to get through the block of text that it is now.
Maybe it would be better if I split it into two paragraphs?
One describing bonus skills, and one for Assigned Skills.
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That would be clearer, yes. And maybe draw the parallel between package and assigned skills too.
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So I hate to do this, but I got some bad news about the health and families of two of my very good friends today.
Having to leave work for a mental health day because of it.
So while I may continue to work on this during this time, I will not be posting for awhile.
Yes I am ok so don't worry about me.
I just need time to myself to process.
Victor take all the time you need.. You know when you return we will be here
and now that your back... 8)
6. Schools will receive a balancing makeover. In their current state there is to much overlap (me being lazy and just coping with some modification), and to may schools with little to offer and costing to much to enter (Both mine and FASA schools). This will be fixed by using a balancing point system that will be available in the appendix for making new schools. Just to be clear, the system will not make the schools balanced vs. each others (going to NAIS is not the same as going to a Enlistment Bootcamp). It will make the schools balanced vs. the creations system. If you are willing to spent the skill/advantage point you will get rewarded (The cost will equal the reward).
7. Also coming will be a rewrite of the Clan packages to better incorporate the changes to skills and advantages and add some flavor to the different Clans training forms.
8. I will be adding more to Vehicle combat expansion including a fully RPG Vehicle combat system that will intergrade elements of Alpha Strike/Battleforce and some of the hit charts from the "RPG that will not be named", most just the new hit location sheets (only good part of that system).
Lots of work here so I better get started. :thumbsup:
School..you talk about costing too much for what you gain, some of that make sense as you look at attending "Daryk Naval Warfare School" you get that cool ring, and contacts vrs "Doc's Military School" where we teach you dirty tricks of infantry skills set but "Good people" don't talk about what we teach.
I'm interested in what you put in for Clans, as I'm looking at clan for a force for the 1st time
Vehicle combat that RPG not table top interesting
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Just for those wondering: I don't have any rings on my fingers... I've known plenty that do, and most of them were cool. They were the ones that explained the rules of the ring thing... 8)
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As the example shows, most of the changes are streamlining of the schools to make them easier to uses.
As for the Clans, I am re-doing the packages and adding individual Clan training packs.
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So to demo the new school system cost in a way that is easy to understand.
Most of this is a direct conversion from 3rd edition using MW2 equivalencies.
CP = 1 Advantage point, 1 Attribute point, or 3 Skill Points
Requirements: The base requirement is a Saving roll (+0 TN) Failure = entry denied based on the highest attribute minimum, Social attribute win ties.
This can be increased or decreased in the following ways;
1. Adding a extra CP to Bonus adds a +1 TN modifier
2. An Attribute minimum of higher then 3 adds a +1 TN modifier (per multiple of 2 rounded up), so s 4-5=+1, 6+=+2.
3. Each advantage or Path required adds a -1 TN modifier
4. Schools with a University package adds a +1 TN modifier
5. Each Successes=Must spent 1 advantage point adds a -1 TN modifier
Note: No Saving roll can ever be above +2 TN, efforts must be made to lower the TN modifier using the information above.
Package: Academy=3 CP, University=6 CP, Finishing schools (Universities with only a FOS entry)=3 CP
Bonus: Using the formulas above the Academy/University must use all CP assigned to the School
Courses Provided: Based on official sources about the courses available.
For the Clans I will be providing "Training Packages"
There will be one for each of the Clans that come with the purchase of any Clan Warrior Package. The packages will be set at 4 CP.
Example:
Tranquil Training Center (Wolf Clan)
Requirements: Race Priority 2-4
Package: Any Clan Warrior Package
Bonus: Vehicle Systems/"Package vehicle"(2), Natural Aptitude/Negotiation (2), Good Reputation/Wolf Clan Warrior (1)
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Wow, the Poll is coming down to the wire.
Just a heads up for anyone following it.
1 of the votes for "A confirmation Roll is required to hit the Head/Crew. Similar to D&D Crit confirmation" was a miss click by me.
It should be "The PC/NPC is required to spend an Edge point to hit the head of an Important NPC or PC".
So that and "Head/Crew Hits follow the normal rules" are neck and neck right now.
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Vehicle combat that RPG not table top interesting
Jut to be clear you will still need a hex map for this system, it will just be faster.
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Jut to be clear you will still need a hex map for this system, it will just be faster.
Funny thing, I was briefly in a group that used the Shadow Run rules for RPG. It was bit rough, but the vehicle combat was pretty good.
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Well since 10 is the most votes I have seen, it looks like the norm wins. I will be adding the Edge rule as an option.
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Revised Academy rules. Take two.
Major Academy and University Packages
While there are an untold number of military training facilities across the Innersphere, each of the great and minor houses have academies that rise above the rest. Below you will find the most prominent academies and universities of the Innersphere.
Major Academy and University Rules
Each package is made up of Requirements, Packages, Bonuses, and Courses Provided.
Requirements: These are the Advantages, Life Paths, and Entry rolls required to attend the Academy. Any player planning to enter the academy must spend the required Advantage points and make the Saving rolls at their PCs current attribute level. If a Path is required, the prospective student must have selected the Path in Early/Late Childhood to be eligible for entry.
Packages: These are the Packages available at this academy. No other packages are available. Player wishing to attend the academy must be able to purchase the lowest cost package to attend.
Bonus: Each academy provides rewards for graduating from such a prestigious academy. These rewards come in the form of Bonus Skill points, Assigned skills, Advantages, Disadvantages, and sometimes special rules that follow the PC through out the campaign.
1. Bonus skills points are “skill points” that may be assigned to any skills within the indicated categories. Examples include Any Skill (Any), Basic Training (BT), Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), Field of Study (FOS), or sometime a specific category of skills like: Technician or Piloting. These bonus skills follow the rules presented on pg. xx for use of bonus skill.
2. Assigned skills are gained at the level listed, if the PC already has the listed skill these are converted into skill points that can only be assigned to the listed skill. If this raises the skill to the next level the new level is gain, if this falls short, the points are saves until the later phases of character creation. See pg. xx
3. In this section you will sometimes gain Disadvantages that are associated with the school, these are not optional and must be addressed in play to be removed (cannot be bought off during character creation).
Courses Provided: This entry shows all (GM may adjust) the Individual training packages provided by the academy. If a MOS/FOS is not listed, then the school does not have a program for that occupation. Note this does not limit the skills available at the academy, Bonus skills (Any) may be assigned to a skill not listed in the packages provided.
Capellan Confederation Schools
All Capellan Academies require the PC to be Citizens.
Capella War College (2270)
The heavy workload of the Capella War College promotes a "sink or swim" attitude among the students, who are among the best the Confederation has to offer. Physical training suffers for the pace, and it is hard for recruits to stand out for special recognition among their peers. The competition is fierce with battlefield camaraderie on the training grounds giving way to jealous rivalries across campus. Despite the pressures, the War College is the most sought-after of the Capellan academies for its training regimen. Its graduates rarely hesitate to rub their pedigree in the face of alumni from other academies, especially the Sian Center for Martial Disciplines.
Requirements: Must have one of the following: Contact (1), Nobility Path, or Military School Path.
Mental Saving roll (+1 TN) Failure = entry denied
Package: Basic or Advanced University
Bonus: SI/Capellan History (1), SI/Capellan Philosophies (2), Well-Connected (1), Quirk/Elitism (-1).
Military: +1 REF, Strategy (1), Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (2), Combat Sense (2),
Civilian: +1 WIL, Bonus Skill: +5 (COS/HOS), Natural Aptitude/one core (COS/HOS) skill (2)
Note: For Leadership program, lose Well-Connected (1), Combat Sense (2), attend Sian University
Courses Provided:
Basic: Basic Training (Capellan Confederation), Basic Training (Naval)
MOS: Battlemech Pilot, Aerospace Pilot, Cavalry, Infantry, Dropship Pilot, Marine, Specialist (Recon), Armored Infantry
FOS: Military Science, Jumpship Pilot
Hopefully this is easier to understand
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In the "Assigned Skills" bullet, the verbs need to be "gained" and "saved", though I'll also say there should be an option to spend more skill points to add to those that don't raise a level by themselves.
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In the "Assigned Skills" bullet, the verbs need to be "gained" and "saved", though I'll also say there should be an option to spend more skill points to add to those that don't raise a level by themselves.
Not sue what the disconnect is here?
There is nothing stopping you from spending skill points to increase the skill.
Anyway it is explained. In more detail on pg. xx earlier in the chapter "gaining skill levels".
I will post that tonight.
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I was just thinking "later phases" was less clear, that's all.
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In the "Assigned Skills" bullet, the verbs need to be "gained" and "saved", though I'll also say there should be an option to spend more skill points to add to those that don't raise a level by themselves.
This is explained in the preceding Gaining Skills section which is what both references to pg. xx would lead to.
Gaining Skills pg. xx
During the the course of the Character creation system, PCs will gain skills from multiple sources. These gains come in 3 main categories.
Assigned Skills: These are skills gain in full level increments. They will be displayed in the format "Skill Name" (1) with the number in brackets indicating the level achieved. Assigned skills are mostly gain during the Affiliation, Childhood, and Educations sections of the character creation process. Since these skills are full levels, they can not simple be added be added together. For example, Due to how skill advancement works during character creation gaining Strategy (1), then Strategy (1) again does not equal Strategy (2). Instead the character would have Strategy (1) with 1 Bonus skill point assigned to Strategy.
Bonus Skill Points (BS): These are Skill points gain mostly during the Education and Previous Experience sections of the character creation process. The can be assigned to specific skills or given in free to assign groups. Typically, bonus points will be gained when a Assigned Skill is awarded (See above). The second way a bonus skill is gained is when a Package or Path provides a group of bonus points. These groups are normally given an assignment restriction when awarded. All bonus points are accumulative, thus when the bonus points gain in a skill equal the points needed for the next level, the PC gains the new level in the skill.
Previous Experience Points (PXP): These are points gained only during the Previous Experience sections of the character creation process. 1 PXP can purchase 5 Bonus Skill points.
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That should be clear enough, yeah! :thumbsup:
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I am coming closer to finishing the School section update.
Next I will be working on the Previous Experience section.
There is a new poll to determine what path this section update should take.
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I am coming closer to finishing the School section update.
Next I will be working on the Previous Experience section.
There is a new poll to determine what path this section update should take.
because I am way from my home machine where all this stuff is... could u show an example on what was there
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because I am way from my home machine where all this stuff is... could u show an example on what was there
Schools or Previous Experience?
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So I hit two snags today with the Schools.
1. The points need to be scaled back
2. I needed to do and overhaul of the Skill Packages
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How much did we overshoot? ???
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How much did we overshoot? ???
It needs to be one set number for all the Schools the extra points for the University package where to much.
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Makes sense...
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Makes sense...
A middle ground number of 4 CP seems to be a good point.
It was also what I set the Clan Training Centers at so it should be even across the board
For reference:
1 CP = 1 Advantage Point, 1 Attribute Point, or 3 Skill Points
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3 skill points seems low, but I trust your math.
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Schools or Previous Experience?
The new school update if done
and the link to prior experience
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The new school update if done
and the link to prior experience
The New School update is getting an overhaul due to some math errors.
The Prior Experience system is in the current version of the Book up on the link in my Signature.
It has not had any work done on it yet, as it is next up for a update.
Hope that helps.
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Also a side note.
The poll was written on my phone and auto-correct reared its ugly head.
The second line should read "Should the entries be a mix of flexible and set bonuses"
It is corrected now, but if people want to change their vote let me know in the thread.
I can either leave it as is and you can change your vote in the thread or I can reset the poll.
Let me know.
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So to answer some questions about the School update.
1. Every school will get the treatment including the FASA and generic ones.
2. Schools will be balanced on a point system.
a. Each will receive 4 CP.
b. 1 CP= either 1 Advantage point, 1 Attribute point, or 3 Skill points.
c. Most bonuses will be "Bonus Skills: +3 (BT or MOS), Bonus Skills: +3 (MOS or FOS), and a 1 point Advantage or 3 set skills.
d. Any Disadvantages gain will reward the school with +1 CP.
3. School entry will be by saving roll and/or by fulfilling the listed requirements.
4. The Course list is based on the MOS/FOSs provided in official sources.
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The New School update is getting an overhaul due to some math errors.
The Prior Experience system is in the current version of the Book up on the link in my Signature.
It has not had any work done on it yet, as it is next up for a update.
Hope that helps.
Thank you
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Last Poll: Mixed rewards won
New Poll
So after some play testing my group made some suggestions on how to display skill bonuses gain in the Academy packages.
Academies currently award Bonus as such:
1. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (1), Strategy (1)
the second option would make the Skill point use more noticeable
2. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Tactics/Any (+1), SI/Military History (+1), Strategy (+1)
The third option changes the entries to allow for more flexibility when skills are gained twice.
3. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Bonus Skill: +3 (Any)
Required Skill Levels: Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (1), Strategy (1)
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Last Poll: Mixed rewards won
New Poll
So after some play testing my group made some suggestions on how to display skill bonuses gain in the Academy packages.
Academies currently award Bonus as such:
1. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (1), Strategy (1)
the second option would make the Skill point use more noticeable
2. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Tactics/Any (+1), SI/Military History (+1), Strategy (+1)
The third option changes the entries to allow for more flexibility when skills are gained twice.
3. +1 REF, Bonus Skill: +3 (BT), Bonus Skill: +3 (MOS), Bonus Skill: +3 (Any)
Required Skill Levels: Tactics/Any (1), SI/Military History (1), Strategy (1)
So as I'm going to call the last poll finished, as I have decided to change my vote after some review, giving option two 3 votes.
I have also decided that this format will be used through out the book to keep a cleaner and clearer presentation.
No new poll yet, as I have not come across anything I need to address yet.
Update news
1. Other then changing the skills entries to match the new format, Schools are done.
2. Clan Training centers should be done this weekend.
3. Skill section has had a complete overhaul. (New skills, cleaner format, some major changes to skills old and new)
4. Computer has become a Cascade skill with 5 subskills: Operation, Programing, Security/Infiltration, "Vehicle System, Networking.
5. Marital Arts have been added.
6. New Advantages and Disadvantages.
7. 2nd attempt at the Random Tables.
8. Field Packages have been updated and new ones added for both Military, Intelligence, and Civilians
10. Major rework on all Clan Warrior and Civilian Packages
11. Independent schools added to the School section (Dragoons training, Northwind)
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For the poll: I like the idea of the information being rather relevant for the game. So, I prefer seeing the skills as a modifier for the appropriate roll.
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For the poll: I like the idea of the information being rather relevant for the game. So, I prefer seeing the skills as a modifier for the appropriate roll.
?
The poll is about how skill points/full levels awarded in character creation are displayed.
Not sure where the modifier come into this?
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Aren't skills values used to modify the results of a particular die roll? Display the relevant value, ie the modifier.
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Aren't skills values used to modify the results of a particular die roll? Display the relevant value, ie the modifier.
Not in MechWarrior 2.
The formula in MW2 is
18 - (1st attribute + 2nd Attribute) = TN(X)
Then TN - Skill level = Final TN.
So, for example:
18 - ( ITN (5) + REF (5) ) = TN 8
Then TN 8 - Piloting/Mech (4) = Final TN 4
This is normally display on the character sheet as:
Piloting/'Mech 4 (4+)
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I was offline all week and am just catching up... looks like you're headed in the right direction good sir! :thumbsup:
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Just a heads-up, my keyboard died so I got no work done this weekend.
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Bummer!
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So I have a replacement Keyboard now.
Hopefully this is the last of the holdups. ::)
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Fingers crossed! :thumbsup:
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Not in MechWarrior 2.
The formula in MW2 is
18 - (1st attribute + 2nd Attribute) = TN(X)
Then TN - Skill level = Final TN.
So, for example:
18 - ( ITN (5) + REF (4) ) = TN 9
Then TN 9 - Piloting/Mech (4) = Final TN 4
This is normally display on the character sheet as:
Piloting/'Mech 4 (4+)
Could this be simplified somehow?
I.e. roll 2d6, then add both Attributes and the Skill level (plus any specialization bonuses), and see if you beat 18?
Current version:
18 - (5 + 4) - 4 = 5+ (not 4+ like the underlined section above)
Proposed version:
5+4+4 = 13
So you have to roll 5+ on 2d6 in order to get 18.
This would allow for easier tests (i.e. a target number of 16), or harder tests (a target number of 20). It does lose the benefit where you can glance at the sheet and see the character's Gunnery and Piloting skill immediately.
You could even have a target number that is 12 (MinA), where you only add the lower of the two attributes:
2d6 + 4 + 4
This would be good for preventing Munchkins that focus on a single stat.
Or where the target number is 12 (MaxA), where you only add the higher of the two attributes:
2d6 + 5 + 4
Sometimes the character has to pull out their best stat to save the day.
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Could this be simplified somehow?
I.e. roll 2d6, then add both Attributes and the Skill level (plus any specialization bonuses), and see if you beat 18?
Current version:
18 - (5 + 4) - 4 = 5+ (not 4+ like the underlined section above)
Proposed version:
5+4+4 = 13
So you have to roll 5+ on 2d6 in order to get 18.
This would allow for easier tests (i.e. a target number of 16), or harder tests (a target number of 20). It does lose the benefit where you can glance at the sheet and see the character's Gunnery and Piloting skill immediately.
You could even have a target number that is 12 (MinA), where you only add the lower of the two attributes:
2d6 + 4 + 4
This would be good for preventing Munchkins that focus on a single stat.
Or where the target number is 12 (MaxA), where you only add the higher of the two attributes:
2d6 + 5 + 4
Sometimes the character has to pull out their best stat to save the day.
Yeah miss type on my part.
And no, I am not changing the rules of the core game.
That is not the point of this book.
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So just to be clear about the purpose of this book.
I set out to fill in the gaps and create a more robust game out of MechWarrior 2nd.
That is still the case.
I am not however going to change core rules or functions.
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Clarity of purpose is always good! :thumbsup:
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Solid objective!
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Here is an example of one of the new Martial Arts subskills.
Martial Arts/Kenjutsu
Skill formula: 18-(Build + Willpower)
Required skill: Melee Weapons/Blade (2)
Kenjutsu is the art of the Japanese longsword, or katana. The katana held a privileged place for the samurai class – it was said to house its owner’s soul. Samurai most often wielded the katana in two hands, and the style described here favors two-handed methods. The blade was balanced well enough for one-handed use, though, and there were schools that weighted one and two-handed use more evenly. Kenjutsu places much emphasis on the cut. Fighters learn to thrust but usually use their sword for deep slashes. Likewise, while Kenjutsu teaches a full range of parries, it isn’t a defensive art. Kenjutsu is a weapon style that teaches the student to master the katana. This Subskill represents Kenjutsu and other forms that focus on the sword, such as Armatura or Fencing.
Precision Strike (Attack): Your target number to hit is increased by 2, add 1D6 damage.
Counterattack (Special): If you have declared a dodge and your opponent MoF is 5 or more, you may inflect damages as if you made a successful attack. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Parry (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit you is increased by 3.
Targeted Attack (Attack): A character must have a Skill level 2 or better in Kenjutsu to use this maneuver. When making an aimed shot at a specific location, you gain a -2 TN Modifier.
Vital Strike (Attack): A character must have at least a Skill level 4 in Kenjutsu to use this maneuver. This maneuver allows you to use the Katana with deadly precision and accuracy. As such you have learned how to maximize your damage with a Katana. See chart below for damage bonus. Cost: 4 Bruise points
Skill Level Damage Bonus
0-3 None
4-6 +1D6
7-9 +2D6
10 +3D6*
*Note: At this level of skill a Targeted Attack to the head kills an opponent instantly by removing the head from the body.
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Precision attack has no cost? ???
Also, I'm pretty sure you meant "inflict damage" vice "inflect damages"...
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Precision attack has no cost? ???
Also, I'm pretty sure you meant "inflict damage" vice "inflect damages"...
Yes it has no cost, the cost is from the fact that it requires another skills (Melee Weapons/Blade (2)) which only one other Martial Arts subskill has, and has a TN penalty.
Yes you are correct it should be "inflict damage" verse "inflect damages" ;)
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Next example
Martial Arts/Aikido
Skill formula: 18-(Reflexes + Willpower)
This skill represents various defensive forms such as aikido, judo, and T'ai chi ch'üan. It concentrates on throwing, locking, and attempting to neutralize your opponent without striking him.
Aikido Dodge (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit you is increased by 4.
Topple (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit is increased by 2 if they miss they are knocked prone.
Throw (Defense): A character must have a Skill level 2 or better in Aikido to use this maneuver. Your opponent’s TN to hit is increased by 4 if they miss, you throw your opponent a number of meters equal to half your BLD (round down), and he lands prone. The target suffers bruise damage equal to your BLD. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Arm Lock (Defense): You may attempt to disable your opponent by making an opposed roll, if your MoS exceeds the opposing roll, you have locked the targets arm. Your opponent is unable to preform any actions until the lock is broking with an opposed Build roll. You my inflict damage equal to your BLD each round the lock is maintained as you action for the turn. If the opponent is prone, you may make an opposing roll (Build vs Martial Arts/Aikido) with a success locking an arm or leg of your choice; this gain you the same damage effects above.
Breakfall (Defense): You may make a Skill Roll to reduce the damage taken by a fall or throw by your Martial Arts level + MoS.
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And one more:
Martial Arts/Karate
Skill formula: 18-(Reflexes + Willpower)
This subskill is a highly offensive martial art form. It concentrates on delivering blows with hands, elbows, knees and feet to vital parts of the body, such as the stomach and throat. This form represents the Shotokan Ryu teachings.
Back Kick (Attack): If hit your opponent takes normal damage but is pushed out of close combat and must reengage on their turn with a -2 TN to their next attack.
Block (Defense): Your opponent’s damage is divided in half (round down).
Feint (Attack): You make an attack at +2 TN; target must make a Willpower save, if he fails; you do normal damage + MoF, if he succeeds; your damage is divided in half (round down).
Elbow Strike (Attack): If hit your opponent takes normal damage but is stunned for MoS actions.
Hand Strike (Attack): Your TN is increased by +2, this strike does normal damage + your level in Martial Arts/Karate, this attack my target a specific location at normal penalty. Has no effect on armored locations.
Jump Kick (Attack): You can melee attack a target up to two meters away. If you score a hit, the target must make a Consciousness Roll. In addition, if the target was not in melee combat with you at the beginning of the round, he may not make an attack on you this turn. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Precision Hit (Attack): A character must have a Skill level 3 or better in Karate to use this maneuver. When making an aimed shot at a specific location, reduce the TN modifier by -2. May be combined with any of the above Attacks.
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Any thought of using Gun Kata? My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.
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Any thought of using Gun Kata? My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.
Nope
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Sorry no Grammaton Clerics in Battletech.
IMHO that was the worst part about Equilibrium.
"The statistical path of bullets" LOL
Ask the Mythbusters about that one. ;D
By the way the movie did have a short theater release, but due to International pre-release sales already making a profit, the studio reduced the film's promotion and advertising budget to almost nothing to avoid the risk of the film losing money; as a consequence, the US theatrical release was limited.
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I was more influenced by John Wick, but I see your point. 8)
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So a little on the forms and the thought process behind them.
Kenjutsu: This one is pretty straight forward, it's all about limited maneuvering for a quick kills, "more bang for the buck" so to speak.
Aikido/"Aikijutsu": By the way the proper name of the combat art is actually "Aikijutsu" as the -jutsu=Art and -do=Way, with -do typically indicating more of a artistic demonstration form and -jutsu indicating more of a practical combat form. Now as for the Martial Arts/Aikido, this form is rooted in the idea of letting the opponent take themselves out of combat with a little "push" from the practitioner.
Karate: This one is all about control. You are in control throughout the fight, never really allowing the opponent to act without directing their actions. You control the distance at which you fight with your kicks and how and when the opponent can attack with your strikes and feints. The overall objective being to land a Precision Hand Strike when it will matter.
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?? for you
Will there be a MA forms like... SAMBO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art)#Combat_Sambo) or Krav Maga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga)
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?? for you
Will there be a MA forms like... SAMBO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art)#Combat_Sambo) or Krav Maga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga)
Depends how generic I go with MA/Military
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I'd prefer just going fairly generic with the Martial Arts, and only adding special moves at every skill level that is divisible by 3. Otherwise to me it is turning the Battletech RPG into a martial arts game (i.e. the Street Fighter RPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter:_The_Storytelling_Game)), rather than people roleplaying and getting information before getting into their Mechs to solve problems (i.e. Airwolf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airwolf)).
As an example, Karate would get one of its bonus abilities at 3 skill points, another at 6 skill pts, etc. If one special maneuver every 3 pts is too rare, it could be changed to one special maneuver is learned every 2 pts.
You might go with Boxing just giving power attack options, or additional melee attack. Not as many advanced maneuvers, the Boxer just tries to hit the opponent harder, or additional times.
Any thought of using Gun Kata? My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.
A 'Gun Kata' could be modeled by the user just grabbing a bunch of generic Martial Arts skill used to knock an opponent out of grabbing range (or knocking their gun from aiming at you), then using Pistols skill to shoot them. Maybe adding in a bit of Tactics/Melee so they can predict where the opponents are likely to be and aim at their body through concealment from their hiding place? The most important parts are the mental ability to keep track of multiple targets, and Performance so they can pose dramatically afterwards.
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I'd prefer just going fairly generic with the Martial Arts, and only adding special moves at every skill level that is divisible by 3. Otherwise to me it is turning the Battletech RPG into a martial arts game (i.e. the Street Fighter RPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter:_The_Storytelling_Game)), rather than people roleplaying and getting information before getting into their Mechs to solve problems (i.e. Airwolf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airwolf)).
As an example, Karate would get one of its bonus abilities at 3 skill points, another at 6 skill pts, etc. If one special maneuver every 3 pts is too rare, it could be changed to one special maneuver is learned every 2 pts.
You might go with Boxing just giving power attack options, or additional melee attack. Not as many advanced maneuvers, the Boxer just tries to hit the opponent harder, or additional times.
A 'Gun Kata' could be modeled by the user just grabbing a bunch of generic Martial Arts skill used to knock an opponent out of grabbing range (or knocking their gun from aiming at you), then using Pistols skill to shoot them. Maybe adding in a bit of Tactics/Melee so they can predict where the opponents are likely to be and aim at their body through concealment from their hiding place? The most important parts are the mental ability to keep track of multiple targets, and Performance so they can pose dramatically afterwards.
Just to be clear, as this is covered in the full Martial Arts writeup. You don't get all these Maneuvers to start just for having the Martial Arts skill.
1. You are limited to one Maneuver per skill level.
2. Each Maneuvers cost 1 AP and 5 Skill points that have to be from that skill to obtain. (You do get one when you gain the skill (see entry #4))
3. The PC is required to meet normal skill training requirements to gain the Maneuvers.
4. It is suggested that the first Maneuvers always be one of the dodges or blocks.
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Just to be clear, as this is covered in the full Martial Arts writeup. You don't get all these Maneuvers to start just for having the Martial Arts skill.
1. You are limited to one Maneuver per skill level.
2. Each Maneuvers cost 1 AP and 5 Skill points that have to be from that skill to obtain. (You do get one when you gain the skill (see entry #4))
3. The PC is required to meet normal skill training requirements to gain the Maneuvers.
4. It is suggested that the first Maneuvers always be one of the dodges or blocks.
Where is this Martial Arts write-up located? I was not able to find it in the pdf link in your signature, and that is all I have to base my ideas/critiques on
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0)
For #4, that could be one of the rules for the Martial Arts various skills.
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Where is this Martial Arts write-up located? I was not able to find it in the pdf link in your signature, and that is all I have to base my ideas/critiques on
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0)
For #4, that could be one of the rules for the Martial Arts various skills.
This is a new section in the MechWarrior 2nd Advanced Rule that we are discussing that is still a WIP.
It will replace the one that is in my signature when it is done.
I left the old one, for though that are not interested in the new book.
The new book changes a lot of the information from MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
It adds new rule, expands other rules and gets rid of the idea of it being optional rules.
The book will be a fully realized set of advanced rules using MW2 as the core while changing how some areas work.
1. New advanced Attribute section that makes the split of ITN into DEX and WIL a hard and fast rule.
2. A fully integrated Advantage/Disadvantage system that is no longer a tack-on.
3. New skills including Acting, Arts, Culture, Etc..
4. re-designation of some skills like Unarmed Combat into Brawling, And Blade into Melee Weapons.
5. The breakdown of Computer and others into cascading skills.
6. The rebalancing of the Backgrounds/Affiliations/Schools using a new set point system.
7. The reintroduction of Random Event table as an option the PCs and GM can add for flavor.
8. A rewrite of the MOS/FOS/COS/HOS and Clan packages.
9. The full integration of the rules for Age and Past Experience.
10. others that have not been finalized with full names or mechanics yet.
So this is not a update or errata, its for all intent an all new book.
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?? for you
Will there be a MA forms like... SAMBO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art)#Combat_Sambo) or Krav Maga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga)
The reference material I have, has info for Fairbairn, MCMAP, and Sambo. would have to hunt and see if I can get Krav Maga info.
But this brings up the next poll. Should Martial Arts/Military be generic or should it have options for culturally relative MA's from the deferent Houses other then the DCMS (Kenjutsu) and the CCAF (Gung Fu) .
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The additional martial arts could come later.
In general direction, it's beginning to sound like you're headed toward AToW... ^-^
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The additional martial arts could come later.
In general direction, it's beginning to sound like you're headed toward AToW... ^-^
Actually, most all of my references for extra are for 3rd edition and from GURPS martial arts.
The AToW versions where made so generic as to just be a list of maneuvers in the melee section.
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The reference material I have, has info for Fairbairn, MCMAP, and Sambo. would have to hunt and see if I can get Krav Maga info.
But this brings up the next poll. Should Martial Arts/Military be generic or should it have options for culturally relative MA's from the deferent Houses other then the DCMS (Kenjutsu) and the CCAF (Gung Fu) .
MA/Military I think should be by culture to show difference in how they are trained
And there used to be a online Krav Maga for GURPS 3rd, I know I have a copy somewhere
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I meant in general beyond martial arts... :)
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I meant in general beyond martial arts... :)
So did I.
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Ah, gotcha... I don't own any GURPS, so I'm not familiar with its details.
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Update
Finished: Backgrounds, Skills, Advantage/Disadvantages
WIP: Affiliations 3025-3052, Schools update.
Next up: Affiliation 2400- 2770, Lost Limb/Implant-Prosthetic update, Past Experience update.
To be done: Vehicle rules, equipment update
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:thumbsup:
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Ok.
So, instead of making a poll for each Clan one at a time I have posted the template below.
I am working on the Clan Training Center Packages and have run into a snag.
What to give each clan that would be unique to that clans military training.
So I am going to let you guys have a crack at it.
Simply fill-out the template below for each clan.
I am building based on each clan getting 2 CP.
CP= 1 Advantage or 1 Attribute or 3 Skill points.
Now I already have the Center names listed below
"See Below" Training Center (Clan "name")
Requirements: Race Priority 2-4 (Set)
Package: Any Clan Warrior Package (Set)
Bonus: Some Skill (+3), Natural Aptitude/Negotiation (2), Fit (1)
Training Center List
York Training Center (Clan Blood Spirit)
Albion Training Center (Clan Burrock)
Homer Training Center (Clan Cloud Cobra)
Tamaron Training Center (Clan Coyote)
Strato Domingo Training Center (Clan Diamond Shark)
Shadow Training Center (Clan Fire Mandrill)
Alshain Training Center (Clan Ghost Bear)
Roche Training Center (Clan Goliath Scorpion)
Csesztreg Training Center (Clan Hell’s Horses)
Hector Training Center (Clan Ice Hellion)
Ironhold Training Center (Clan Jade Falcon)
Barcella Training Center (Clan Nova Cat)
Huntress Training Center (Clan Smoke Jaguar)
Lum Training Center (Clan Snow Raven)
Sheridan Training Center (Clan Star Adder)
New Kent Training Center (Clan Steel Viper)
Tranquil Training Center (Clan Wolf)
Feel free to either post them here or send me a PM.
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So, your general options are:
2 Advantages
1 Advantage, 1 Attribute
1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
2 Attributes
1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
6 Skill Points
I would generally recommend the below (not being sufficiently familiar with the clans for specifics):
York Training Center (Clan Blood Spirit) 6 Skill Points
Albion Training Center (Clan Burrock) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
Homer Training Center (Clan Cloud Cobra) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Tamaron Training Center (Clan Coyote) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Strato Domingo Training Center (Clan Diamond Shark) 6 Skill Points
Shadow Training Center (Clan Fire Mandrill) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Alshain Training Center (Clan Ghost Bear) 2 Attributes
Roche Training Center (Clan Goliath Scorpion) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Csesztreg Training Center (Clan Hell’s Horses) 6 Skill Points
Hector Training Center (Clan Ice Hellion) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Ironhold Training Center (Clan Jade Falcon) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Barcella Training Center (Clan Nova Cat) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
Huntress Training Center (Clan Smoke Jaguar) 2 Attributes
Lum Training Center (Clan Snow Raven) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Sheridan Training Center (Clan Star Adder) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
New Kent Training Center (Clan Steel Viper) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Tranquil Training Center (Clan Wolf) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
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So, your general options are:
2 Advantages
1 Advantage, 1 Attribute
1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
2 Attributes
1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
6 Skill Points
I would generally recommend the below (not being sufficiently familiar with the clans for specifics):
York Training Center (Clan Blood Spirit) 6 Skill Points
Albion Training Center (Clan Burrock) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
Homer Training Center (Clan Cloud Cobra) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Tamaron Training Center (Clan Coyote) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Strato Domingo Training Center (Clan Diamond Shark) 6 Skill Points
Shadow Training Center (Clan Fire Mandrill) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Alshain Training Center (Clan Ghost Bear) 2 Attributes
Roche Training Center (Clan Goliath Scorpion) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Csesztreg Training Center (Clan Hell’s Horses) 6 Skill Points
Hector Training Center (Clan Ice Hellion) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Ironhold Training Center (Clan Jade Falcon) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Barcella Training Center (Clan Nova Cat) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
Huntress Training Center (Clan Smoke Jaguar) 2 Attributes
Lum Training Center (Clan Snow Raven) 1 Advantage, 3 Skill Points
Sheridan Training Center (Clan Star Adder) 1 Attribute, 1 Advantage
New Kent Training Center (Clan Steel Viper) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
Tranquil Training Center (Clan Wolf) 1 Attribute, 3 Skill Points
I was actually looking for skills names and advantage names for each center.
Example:
Tranquil Training Center (Clan Wolf)
Requirements: Race Priority 2-4
Package: Any Clan Warrior Package
Bonus: Negotiation (+3), Strategy (+3)
In general, this is a bonus package for the warriors only, so anything that would be generic for the Clan is handled by the Affiliation.
Other things to remember:
1. Skills can be issued in any amount under the CP, so it can be Negotiation (+1), (+2), (+3), (+4), (+5), or (+6)
2. Try to avoid Attributes unless that Clans warriors are well know for it.
3. Again advantage/Disadvantages should be something the Warriors are know for, like Clan Diamond Shark possibly having Well-Connected.
4. Try to stay away from Combat skills unless it is a major quotable thing for that Clan, like Jade Falcon maybe getting extra Martial Arts/Military since their Trial of Position requires an Unarmed combat section.
I will put up a list of Attributes, Skills, and Advantage/Disadvantage that are in the Advanced rule below.
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That'll help, but my clan lore is VERY deficient...
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Here is the list to help out.
Attributes
Build, Reflexes, Dexterity, Learn, Willpower, Charisma
Skills
Acrobatics, Acting, Administration, Alternate Identity*, Animal Handling/Herding, Animal Handling/Training, Anti-Mech Operation, Appraisal, Archery, Arts*, Brawling (Unarmed Combat), Bureaucracy, Career Skills (CS)*, Climbing, Communications/Black Box, Communications/Conventional, Communications/Hyperpulse Generator, Computer/”Vehicle” Systems, Computer/Network Operations, Computer/Operation, Computer/Programming, Computer/Security-Infiltration, Cryptography, Culture*, Demolitions, Disguise, Drive/Ground, Drive/Naval, Drive/Rail, Engineering, Escape Artist, Forgery, Free Fall, Gambling, Gunnery/Aerospace, Gunnery/Artillery, Gunnery/BattleMech, Gunnery/Battlesuit, Gunnery/Conventional, Gunnery/Orbital Bombardment, Gunnery/ProtoMechs, Gunnery/Spacecraft, Impersonation, Interrogation, Investigation, Jump Pack, Language*, Leadership, Martial Arts/Aikido, Martial Arts/Boxing, Martial Arts/Gung Fu, Martial Arts/Karate, Martial Arts/Kenjutsu, Martial Arts/Military, Martial Arts/Tae Kwon Do, Martial Arts/Taijutsu, Medtech, Melee Weapons (Blade), Navigation/Air, Navigation/Ground, Navigation/K-F Jump, Navigation/Naval, Negotiation, Perception, Pick Pocket, Piloting/Aerospace, Piloting/BattleMech, Piloting/Battlesuit, Piloting/ProtoMechs, Piloting/Spacecraft, Protocol*, Quickdraw, Reconnaissance, Riding, Running, Science*, Scrounge, Security Systems, Seduction, Sleight of Hand, Small Arms, Special Interest (SI)*, Stealth, Strategy, Streetwise, Support Weapons, Surgery, Surveillance, Survival, Swimming, Tactics/Air Support, Tactics/Air, Tactics/BattleMechs, Tactics/Ground, Tactics/Infantry, Tactics/Naval, Tactics/Proto, Tactics/Space, Technician/Aerospace, Technician/BattleMech, Technician/Battlesuit, Technician/Electronics, Technician/Mechanic, Technician/Spacecraft, Technician/Weapons, Throwing Weapons, Tinker, Tracking, Training, Zero-G Operations
*Skills so marked require a Subskill.
Advantages
(1) Ambidextrous, (1) Animal Empathy, (1) Attractive, (1) Brave, (1-3) Citizenship, (2) Combat Sense, (1-3) Contact, (1-3) Dropship, (1) EI Neural Implant, (2) Exceptional Attribute, (1-3) Extra Edge, (3) Fast Learner, (1) Fit, (1) G-Tolerance, (1) Good Hearing, (1-3) Good Reputation, (1) Good Vision, (1) Gregarious, (1) Land Grant, (2/3) Natural Aptitude, (2) Pain Resistance, (1) Patient, (1-2) Proud Heritage, (1) Poison Resistance, (2) Sixth Sense, (1-4) Title/Bloodname, (1) Tech Empathy, (2) Toughness, (1-4) Wealth, (1-3) Well-Connected, (1-3) Well-Equipped
Disadvantage
(1-2) Addictions, (3) Amnesia, (1) Animal Antipathy, (1-3) Bad Reputation, (1-3) Bloodmark, (1-3) Personality Traits***: ((1): Quirks, (2): Compulsions, (3): Psychosis), (2) Combat Paralysis, (1-3) Dark Secret, (1-2) Dependents, (1-3) Enemy, (2) Glass-Jaw, (1) Gremlins, (1-4) Handicap, (1) Illiterate, (1) Impatient, (2) In for Life, (1) Introvert, (1-4) Lost Limb**, (1-3) Poor Hearing, (1-3) Poor Vision, (1) Poverty, (1-2) Shameful Heritage, (3) Slow Learner, (1-2) Stigma, (1) TDS (Transit Disorientation Syndrome), (1) Timid, (1) Unattractive, (1-3) Unlucky
** Lost Limb cost is based on the prosthetic used, so (-4) for no prosthetic.
*** Personality Traits levels are (1): Quirks, (2): Compulsions, (3): Psychosis
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Here are a few stabs in the dark:
Snow Raven: G-Tolerance
Fire Mandrill: Enemy (more points to go toward what, I have NO idea)
Diamond Sharks: Well Connected at least 1, as you mentioned
Ghost Bears: Toughness
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Like Daryk, my clanner knowledge base is limited but here are a few from me based on my view of some clans, hope it helps
Roche Training Center (Clan Goliath Scorpion): Poison Resistance, SI: History 3, Animal Handling 1, Tactics/Ground (combined arms?) 2
Huntress Training Center (Clan Smoke Jaguar): Build, Toughness
Lum Training Center (Clan Snow Raven):
Pilots: G-Tolerance, Gunnery/Aerospace 2, Piloting/Aerospace 2, Tactics/Air, Zero-G Operations or Navigation/Air
Space Crews: G-Tolerance, Gunnery/Space 2, Piloting/Space 2, Tactics/Naval, Zero-G Operations or Navigation/K-F Jump
Strato Domingo Training Center (Clan Diamond Shark): Poison Resistance, Well Connected or Contact, Negotiation 3
Ironhold Training Center (Clan Jade Falcon): Combat Sense, Martial Arts/Military 2, Perception
Alshain Training Center (Clan Ghost Bear): Well Connected (to show Family ties), Culture (for there great work) 2, Melee Weapons (Blade) 2, Tracking 2
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I'd be hesitant to give an entire clan Combat Sense. Initiative is kind of a win button...
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Like Daryk, my clanner knowledge base is limited but here are a few from me based on my view of some clans, hope it helps
Welcome to my pain :bang:
Roche Training Center (Clan Goliath Scorpion): Poison Resistance, SI: History 3, Animal Handling 1, Tactics/Ground (combined arms?) 2
Not sure about Poison Resistance for an entire caste. This one is starting to make me think about breaking up the Trainings camps into separate phenotypes and or movements (AKA. Seekers).
Huntress Training Center (Clan Smoke Jaguar): Build, Toughness
I'm not sure if this is not just an artifact of the Clan tending to be lead by Elementals or a true trait of the Clan warriors.
Lum Training Center (Clan Snow Raven):
Pilots: G-Tolerance, Gunnery/Aerospace 2, Piloting/Aerospace 2, Tactics/Air, Zero-G Operations or Navigation/Air
Space Crews: G-Tolerance, Gunnery/Space 2, Piloting/Space 2, Tactics/Naval, Zero-G Operations or Navigation/K-F Jump
The Split the Caste idea is where I am leaning also.
But this seems more like initial warrior skill packages then training center benefits.
Strato Domingo Training Center (Clan Diamond Shark): Poison Resistance, Well Connected or Contact, Negotiation 3
Why Poison Resistance?
Ironhold Training Center (Clan Jade Falcon): Combat Sense, Martial Arts/Military 2, Perception
As Daryk said, I'd also be hesitant to give an entire clan Combat Sense. The rest looks good though.
Alshain Training Center (Clan Ghost Bear): Well Connected (to show Family ties), Culture (for there great work) 2*, Melee Weapons (Blade) 2, Tracking 2
*Love the idea for the Great Work.
So the new idea I am getting from this is to have a generic Warrior entry using 1-2 CP, basically general Clan tactics and focuses, and then have a more focused entry on separate Factions/Phenotypes/Movements.
Not sure if its a good idea but it's what I am thinking.
Also a Heads up, its Just Melee Weapons and Brawling, the Blade and Unarmed Combat captions is just to reminded me and everyone else what the skills original name was.
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I would say that just from Daryk and DOC_Agren post and my initial thoughts that is is just to tempting to throw Advantages/Attributes at the packages.
So here are a few more ideas for I've come up with for rules to help you guys and myself:
1. Avoid Attributes unless the Clan warriors all have a tendency to show they are always better at it then all other Clans.
2. Packages should be more skill based then anything else.
3. Since I haven't seen them used yet, remember that Disadvantages are a thing and they add 1CP per level, but don't over use them.
4. Factions/Movements should be a used as a sub-caste if they are prevailing in the Clan such as the Seekers and the Blooded.
5. If a Clan favors a type of combat, it should be reflected in the tactics and strategies more then a boost to a combat skill.
example: For Clan Snow Raven's integrated use of close air support, I was thinking a bonus to Tactics/Air and Ground for all warriors.
PS: all Clan Aerospace phenotypes get G-Tolerance so it's a waste here.
Here's the phenotypes bonuses to help
Clan MechWarrior: +1 REF and +1 DEX
Clan Aerospace Pilot: -1 BLD, +2 REF, +1 DEX, and G-tolerance Advantage
Clan Elemental: +2 BLD, +1 REF, -1 CHA, and Toughness Advantage
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Welcome to my pain :bang:
Not sure about Poison Resistance for an entire caste. This one is starting to make me think about breaking up the Trainings camps into separate phenotypes and or movements (AKA. Seekers).
For me this comes from drink called necrosia... made from scorpion venom.. If you had a Decadence (https://dark-heresy-rp.fandom.com/wiki/Decadence) skill..
I'm not sure if this is not just an artifact of the Clan tending to be lead by Elementals or a true trait of the Clan warriors.
To me when I think of them I see them big strong
The Split the Caste idea is where I am leaning also.
But this seems more like initial warrior skill packages then training center benefits.
I think it might work better, because I tried to figure out Raven ground forces and failed..
Why Poison Resistance?
that was a mistake, was thinking of Nova Cat see above for reasoning, Well Equiped 1
As Daryk said, I'd also be hesitant to give an entire clan Combat Sense. The rest looks good though.
That fair.. I have not looked at my MW2 stuff for a while, I was thinking it was more like this Rapid Reaction (https://dark-heresy-rp.fandom.com/wiki/Rapid_Reaction) or sixth sense might work too
*Love the idea for the Great Work.
thank you and I see you might have liked the family ties
So the new idea I am getting from this is to have a generic Warrior entry using 1-2 CP, basically general Clan tactics and focuses, and then have a more focused entry on separaI would say that just from Daryk and DOC_Agren post and my initial thoughts that is is just to tempting to throw Advantages/Attributes at the packages.
So here are a few more ideas for I've come up with for rules to help you guys and myself:
1. Avoid Attributes unless the Clan warriors all have a tendency to show they are always better at it then all other Clans.
2. Packages should be more skill based then anything else.
3. Since I haven't seen them used yet, remember that Disadvantages are a thing and they add 1CP per level, but don't over use them.
4. Factions/Movements should be a used as a sub-caste if they are prevailing in the Clan such as the Seekers and the Blooded.
5. If a Clan favors a type of combat, it should be reflected in the tactics and strategies more then a boost to a combat skill.
example: For Clan Snow Raven's integrated use of close air support, I was thinking a bonus to Tactics/Air and Ground for all warriors.
PS: all Clan Aerospace phenotypes get G-Tolerance so it's a waste here.
Here's the phenotypes bonuses to help
Clan MechWarrior: +1 REF and +1 DEX
Clan Aerospace Pilot: -1 BLD, +2 REF, +1 DEX, and G-tolerance Advantage
Clan Elemental: +2 BLD, +1 REF, -1 CHA, and Toughness Advantage
I was tempted to give the Smoke Jag Impatient as a disadvantage.. but not sure how to make it work as they "Jump befiore they think it out"
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Just a heads up, I've been sick this weekend so no new updates.
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I hope you feel better soon!
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I hope you feel better soon!
+1
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So my illness took a turn for the worst.
Putting me in the ER on Monday.
Not life threating, but making it so I didn't get any sleep for 3 days.
As I have been laid-up, and am still on a nebulizer an my meds tend to knock me out.
I have been mostly unable to work on this project and am not sure when I will be able to get any substantial work done on it.
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Holy crap! Get well soon, brother! :o
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Holy crap! Get well soon, brother! :o
Yeah, take care of yourself bud.
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Heavy hit, I hope able recover soon and enjoy life more comfortably.
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So my illness took a turn for the worst.
Putting me in the ER on Monday.
Not life threating, but making it so I didn't get any sleep for 3 days.
As I have been laid-up, and am still on a nebulizer an my meds tend to knock me out.
I have been mostly unable to work on this project and am not sure when I will be able to get any substantial work done on it.
Damm that sucks..
Get Well 1st and foremost, it's not like this project is mission crit at the moment, your health is
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New School section rules as provide in the Advanced rules.
Major Academy and University Packages
While there are an untold number of military training facilities across the Innersphere, each of the great and minor houses have academies that rise above the rest. Below you will find the most prominent academies and universities of the Innersphere. In the Advanced rule set Major Academy and University Packages are not an optional rule and all PCs must select one before they can move on. As such Generic Schools have been provided for PCs that either through failed rolls or a lack of interest in the provided schools are unable to gain one of the Faction specific packages. These package are available to any PC from any faction but are limited in the Courses provided due to the strict limitation that most factions place on teaching more advanced MOS/FOSs.
Major Academy and University Rules
Each package is made up of Requirements, Packages, Bonuses, and Courses Provided.
Requirements: These are the Advantages, Life Paths, and Entry rolls required to attend the Academy. Any player planning to enter the academy must spend the required Advantage points and make the Saving rolls at their PCs current attribute level. If a Path is required, the prospective student must have selected the Path in Early/Late Childhood to be eligible for entry.
Packages: These are the Packages available at this academy. No other packages are available. Player wishing to attend the academy must be able to purchase the lowest cost package to attend.
Bonus: Each academy provides rewards and penalties for graduating from such a prestigious academy. These rewards and penalties come in the form of Open Skill points, Assigned skills points, Advantages, Disadvantages, and sometimes special rules that follow the PC through out the campaign.
1. Open skills points are “skill points” that are assigned to any skills within the indicated categories. Examples include Any Skill (Any), Basic Training (BT), Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), Field of Study (FOS), or sometime a specific category of skills like: Technician or Piloting. These bonuses are package gain and may be distributed by the player as they see fit within the listed category. These Open skill points follow the rules presented on pg. xx for use of bonus skill.
2. Assigned skill points are “skill points” that are assigned to a specific skill, if the PC already has the listed skill these are added to the current skill points assigned to the listed skill. Unlike other skill gains in the character creation system, Since assigned Skill points are set to a specific skill they can violate the normal rules for skill level limits during character creation. These Assigned skills follow the rules presented on pg. xx for use of bonus skill except were overruled above.
3. In this section you will sometimes gain Disadvantages that are associated with the school, these are not optional and must be addressed in play to be removed (cannot be bought off during character creation). These Disadvantages provide no additional Skill/Advantage points as their bonus is already included in the School package total.
Courses Provided: This entry shows all (GM may adjust) the Individual training packages provided by the academy. If a MOS/FOS is not listed, then the school does not have a program for that occupation. Note this does not limit the skills available at the academy, Bonus skills (Any) may still be assigned to a skill not listed in the packages provided.
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Glad to see you back! :thumbsup:
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Glad to see you back! :thumbsup:
Not a 100% but operable.
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New poll is up as I am working on the base character creation system descriptions and generic rules now.
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Update 2
Finished: Backgrounds, Skills, Advantage/Disadvantages, Affiliations 3025-3052, Military Schools update, Skill Packages, Clan Packages.
WIP: Clan Training packages, General character creation section
Next up: Affiliation 2400- 2770, Lost Limb/Implant-Prosthetic update, Past Experience update.
To be done: Vehicle rules, equipment update (Includes new weapons from Shrapnel), Civilian Schools.
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Lots of progress! :thumbsup:
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Mega Update :thumbsup:
First off the core Character Creation section is almost done with about 85% of the layout complete.
The plan is to create a Character Creation test file (PDF) for you guys to test and post your finished PCs here for evaluation.
Add changes to the Core rules in no particular order or completion level.
1. Advanced Initiative rules.
2. Chunky Salsa rules. (Rebounding explosives)
3. Integration with the BattleTroop/DMZ maps for better visualization of RPG combat.
4. More combat options (Weapon fire modes, Melee options, etc.)
5. Creature section
6. Fully integrated social and academic interaction rule.
7. Advanced cover rules (cover takes the hit if the location is covered, cover absorbs damage, etc.)
8. Willpower adds 1/2 its level as a TN modifier when resisting bruise damage.
and others that are to early to give a heads up on.
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Cool! It'll probably be next weekend before I can test it out, though...
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Cool! It'll probably be next weekend before I can test it out, though...
Got to work this week so next week is the target anyway. :)
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All good then! :thumbsup:
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Update
The Lazy Song-play it and you'll get the point. ::)
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I feel it... it's been a LONG week... :D
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Poll update
So with the rules below which system would you want the new vehicle system to use as a base.
Changes
The new vehicle combat rules will use the Mechwarrior 2 turn sequence for;
initiative, Actions per turn, Damage to pilots, etc.
Mechs will be mostly the same, but use the MW:D damage diagram
With modified weapon damage (damage/3), but their heat scale will not changed.
All other aspects will depend on the rules used as a base.
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Ugh for anything from the game I can't name without a warning... ::)
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Ugh for anything from the game I can't name without a warning... ::)
If something works for the book, I don't knock it just because its in the "RPG that Shall not be Named" ;D
Now, the damage diagram is all I'm using from that system because the rest is trash.
Note: Got the damage conversion wrong for the chart its D/3 not D/10 like in AS
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It's your mod, brother! :thumbsup:
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Just to be clear for the Poll as it may be confusing.
The poll is about which system will be used for any rules that are not directly covered by the Vehicle Combat System.
which ever rule set is chosen, it will still be a hybrid of the MW2 RPG rules.
So if you chose Battletech, you are not going to be playing full blown Total War.
It will be MW2 with mods, special rules, etc. from Total War.
And damage will be based on the Damage/3 and MW:D damage diagram.
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It's your mod, brother! :thumbsup:
So to keep Daryk for having a nervous breakdown :D and skirting around the name I have modified the standard record sheets to use the one 3rd armor rules. :thumbsup:
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Woo! Thanks! :thumbsup:
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Here is the Sheet for review.
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Looks good to me! :thumbsup:
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Here a suggestion. Use the Shadow Run 5 vehicle Rules. I was in a group that was using SR5 in a Solaris Campaign. They had to come up with some creative things, the GM was bit of a detailed person when it came certain things. SR5 vehicle rules worked well, with the vehicle damage track as it decayed. Alpha Strike is bit....blunt. Close to instant death almost in comparison, standard rules tend to be brutal as well (especially when you don't use the optional rules for vehicles removing one move crit/crit for damage).
We had a guy using a slightly modified Rotunda with large laser, but no SRM for cargo. It was to say "interesting" There was a difference between Mech Scale Damage and Conventional Infantry damage.
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Here a suggestion. Use the Shadow Run 5 vehicle Rules. I was in a group that was using SR5 in a Solaris Campaign. They had to come up with some creative things, the GM was bit of a detailed person when it came certain things. SR5 vehicle rules worked well, with the vehicle damage track as it decayed. Alpha Strike is bit....blunt. Close to instant death almost in comparison, standard rules tend to be brutal as well (especially when you don't use the optional rules for vehicles removing one move crit/crit for damage).
We had a guy using a slightly modified Rotunda with large laser, but no SRM for cargo. It was to say "interesting" There was a difference between Mech Scale Damage and Conventional Infantry damage.
Do you have a conversion sheet I can look over.
I played SR5 but well tended to stay away from vehicle combat because it slowed down the game.
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Little bit of the Clan Training section as an appetizer.
Tamaron Training Center (Clan Coyote)
General Bonuses: Vehicle point (+4), Leadership (+3)
Society Scientist Bonuses: Tech/Any (+3), Engineering (+3),Science/Genetics (+3), Protocol/Society (+3), Contact/ Society Member (2), Dark Secret/Society (3)*
*May be a member of any Clans Scientist Caste.
Enjoy. :thumbsup:
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Full list of Clan training Centers
Thoughts, Errata, Etc. Please.
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Hmm, few random thoughts
Surprised blood spirits don't have a history skill
Shocked the fire mandills have a singular training facility
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Surprised blood spirits don't have a history skill
What History would you suggest and what skill/Advantage should they lose to get it? Or I could add a Disadvantage to add it.
Shocked the fire mandills have a singular training facility
The Kindraa package is suppose to cover them all, but do you think their is enough diversity between them to warrant each getting their own?
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I could see the Clan Training Centers being done as:
1) General skill list that all Clan would have
2) General skills appropriate to their caste
3) Skills appropriate to their Clan
So General Skills might be:
Protocol/Caste (+3), Streetwise/Clan (+3)
You then select a Caste (Laborer, Merchant, Technician, Scientists, Warrior), and bring in selected skills/advantages, such as this for a Scientist Caste:
Science/Any (+4)
Tech/Any (+2)
You then have a step for what the Clan itself prefers to provide, such as Goliath Scorpion being:
SI/Star League History (+2)
Melee Weapons (+2)
Protocol/Goliath Scorpion (+1)
You can then have subsidiary options that are a net zero in XP points, but provide further skills, advantages, and disadvantages, such as this package for a Seeker (needs Goliath Scorpion Clan):
Poison Resistance (1)
Sixth Sense (2)
Addictions/Necrosia (-2)
The full setup (Clans overall, Caste overall, Clan Specifics, plus options) costs the same amount of XP, the amount of Skills/Advantages/Disadvantages gained from these paths will be better than buying them individually, but some castes will get better benefits. I.e. Laborer caste might get fewer skill points, while Warrior will get more Advantages. So if this package costs 500 XP total, then even someone in the Laborer Caste will get ~550 XP worth of S/A/D that are appropriate to their Clan/Caste, while someone who goes Dark Caste would only have 500 XP to spend but no limits on what they can spend the XP on.
The names of the training centers should be listed after the Clan, as to me people would have an idea of what Clan they want to play, instead of saying they want to play as a graduate of Hector. The Training Center names are listed in order of what Clan they belong to, but to me are a secondary piece of data. A person setting up a Clan Diamond Shark character would know they went to the Strato Domingo training Center, but the name of the center is secondary to what skills it provided.
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I could see the Clan Training Centers being done as:
1) General skill list that all Clan would have
2) General skills appropriate to their caste
3) Skills appropriate to their Clan
So General Skills might be:
Protocol/Caste (+3), Streetwise/Clan (+3)
You then select a Caste (Laborer, Merchant, Technician, Scientists, Warrior), and bring in selected skills/advantages, such as this for a Scientist Caste:
Science/Any (+4)
Tech/Any (+2)
You then have a step for what the Clan itself prefers to provide, such as Goliath Scorpion being:
SI/Star League History (+2)
Melee Weapons (+2)
Protocol/Goliath Scorpion (+1)
You can then have subsidiary options that are a net zero in XP points, but provide further skills, advantages, and disadvantages, such as this package for a Seeker (needs Goliath Scorpion Clan):
Poison Resistance (1)
Sixth Sense (2)
Addictions/Necrosia (-2)
The full setup (Clans overall, Caste overall, Clan Specifics, plus options) costs the same amount of XP, the amount of Skills/Advantages/Disadvantages gained from these paths will be better than buying them individually, but some castes will get better benefits. I.e. Laborer caste might get fewer skill points, while Warrior will get more Advantages. So if this package costs 500 XP total, then even someone in the Laborer Caste will get ~550 XP worth of S/A/D that are appropriate to their Clan/Caste, while someone who goes Dark Caste would only have 500 XP to spend but no limits on what they can spend the XP on.
The names of the training centers should be listed after the Clan, as to me people would have an idea of what Clan they want to play, instead of saying they want to play as a graduate of Hector. The Training Center names are listed in order of what Clan they belong to, but to me are a secondary piece of data. A person setting up a Clan Diamond Shark character would know they went to the Strato Domingo training Center, but the name of the center is secondary to what skills it provided.
The first two are the exact opposite of what the point of these packages are.
The Caste already have packages so the only thing here is extras unique to the clan or when a Clans warriors or civilians differ from the norm.
The setup is set already from a previous post.
The game doesn't use XP so I'm not sure where that is coming from?
The packages have a set value based on 3 CP (1-Advantage, 1-Attribute, or 3-Skill points), so no net zero is needed, and no, that will not change.
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So, just to give a bit of clarity to the purpose for the Clan Training camps.
One of my confidants (Long time player) noticed that the New Schools rules gave a major boost to the Innersphere PC, but kind of left out the Clans reducing or outright destroying their advantages from the system (Reduced package cost, Attribute/Advantages Bonuses) That they gained from their packages and the extra points they put into the Priority system.
As such the Clan Training camps are meant to mitigate that loss by Providing the Clan player 3CP to the Innerspere schools 4CP. The difference between the cost reductions of the Clan packages vs. the Innersphere packages. This brings the two back up to even and gets rid of the gap.
As such I thought it would be cool to give this some flavor and make the gain unique to each clan. I did follow some rules in doing so.
1. No Skill gain for Clan packages above level 4
2. Tried to avoid direct boosting Piloting/Gunnery unless it was a major thing for the Clan.
3. Tactics are always a fallback.
4. Skill levels are balanced vs. Affiliation/Phenotype packages to avoid to many bonus points.
5. Advantages/Disadvantages are limited to avoid redundancy vs. Background/Affiliation/Phenotype packages.
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So the attachment is for a Clan-specific setup, not for a general new-player introduction? That would allow for the larger detail seen in the document, where for example the Cloud Cobras have what looks like two Warrior Caste listings (Pilot & Cloister Training). With over 85 listings that would allow for a wide variety of Clan character options (17 Clans * 5 Castes, plus the extra options seen)
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So the attachment is for a Clan-specific setup, not for a general new-player introduction? That would allow for the larger detail seen in the document, where for example the Cloud Cobras have what looks like two Warrior Caste listings (Pilot & Cloister Training). With over 85 listings that would allow for a wide variety of Clan character options (17 Clans * 5 Castes, plus the extra options seen)
"So the attachment is for a Clan-specific setup, not for a general new-player introduction?" Yes.
For Cloud Cobra there is a missing entry: *(Cloister Training)counts as general bonus for Cloud Cobra.
P.S. All entries are Warrior Entries unless marked otherwise. See top of the the document: All lower Caste characters use the Bonus below unless their clan offers another option.
Lower Caste General: Protocol/Caste (+3), Streetwise/Clan (+3), Training (+3)
As for the idea of a Bonus line for each caste per Clan, that was looked at and rejected as redundant and infeasible, as almost no clan writeup gives enough info to make that even remotely possible.
As for "allow for a wide variety of Clan character options" to me this goes against the very nature of the Clans overly structured training. That is where the Past Experience section comes in an allows the Clanner to branch out a little.
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New poll
Taking a look at the best way to setup the Character creation system.
Looking at this from the easy way to get a player through Character creation.
the options I am looking at.
1. All character creations organized by stage with Clans and Innersphere mixed together.
a) This option is the standard setup currently used in the book. While it does consolidate all character creation into one section, the differences between the way a Clan and an Innersphere character are made cause a lot of clutter in the section.
2. Early stage character creations together with later stages separated for better organization.
a)In this option the system would split after the late childhood stage. This is where the major differences in Clan and Innersphere PCs come up.
3. Clans and Innersphere completely separated for better flow.
a) This is the option where Clan and Innersphere PC are in their own sections of the book. This would allow a player to follow the creation process from start to finish without having to jump over sections and/or figure out which rules apply to them and which don't.
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Normally I'd say 1 here but if you need to separate them for flow (option 3) then I'd do that. They are only together for comparison in any case if I understand correctly where you are at.
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Normally I'd say 1 here but if you need to separate them for flow (option 3) then I'd do that. They are only together for comparison in any case if I understand correctly where you are at.
Option 1 is more the traditional way that the MW RPGs have been laid out, which is fine up to a point. The problem crops up when you have multiple differences between Clan a Innersphere creation causing major clutter in the rules for each stage. While there is overlap, you have areas where the rules are being explained twice in two different ways because each culture handle them in a different way.
Example 1: you are making a Clan character: in the first stage (Early/Late Childhood) you have maybe 3-4 options but you have to sift through all 22 options to find them.
Example 2: you are making a Clan character: your Affiliation is a few pages in, your Early/Late Childhood right there with the other, but you career packages are way at the back because you have to get through all the all the Innersphere options to get to them and you are bouncing back an forth between the start of the section and your area as the rule are at the start.
Personally, while I vote for option 3, but the book is currently laid out closer to option 2
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So here's a POL Update
Still here, working 10 hour shifts doesn't leave much time during the week and the weekends have been hectic lately.
Anyway, I have decided due to comments by idea weenie that is really is not helpful to put out small sections of character creation.
So I'm going to be working on completing the section before I put out a full review document.
Actual update.
1. Clan Background section will include new and updated Early Childhoods.
2. Clan Late Childhood section will be merged with the Clan Warrior/Civilian Packages as one section.
This will take time so, it will be a while before its ready.
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So my gaming group (GM here) is getting back together after a very long hiatus so my free time will be mostly spent on campaign workups.
So I will be putting work on this project into the when I have extra time slot in my RL schedule.
As such, updates will be very infrequent.
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No worries! Enjoy the face to face gaming! :thumbsup:
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Have fun! I will be hopefully gaming in January when time permits.
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Here is the Sheet for review.
Dude! That's brilliant. I don't think it would be too hard to mod standardized Mechs with that pilot block.
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So my gaming group (GM here) is getting back together after a very long hiatus so my free time will be mostly spent on campaign workups.
So I will be putting work on this project into the when I have extra time slot in my RL schedule.
As such, updates will be very infrequent.
This is good timing, after the fact, because I've had a question in my head the last couple of days.
Do you work up stats for every troop in your opfor? Or do you have stock builds you fall back on, with the difference being one or two specialty skills and localized equipment in bulk?
As someone on the lazy side of GMing, I do wish they had come up with some 'stock troop' choices for soldiers. Maybe some different levels of skill for minor variety. Think about the encounters in DnD. A lot of monsters are standardized when it comes to stats and abilities. The only real difference was equipment for those beasts/enemies that could use it.
So, if you do standardize, what are the base stats you fall back on for 'standard' infantry? What about a recruit fresh out of basic? What about a veteran with a couple tours of duty?
And, I open this up to anyone who has done this. I'm looking for some guidelines here. When it comes to combat and OpFor, you really don't need a wide variety of skills for any given trooper. A lot of it won't get used. But, I can see some specialists with certain skills pertaining to their speciality, like a squad commander, and ordinance expert or heavy weapons specialist, maybe a tech expert for breaking into installations or keeping someone out.
So, what bog standard trooper package do you have, and what do you leave open for those minor variations?
Because, looking at the basic combat system again, it's very simple and reflects elements of BT really well, so I don't think I need to come up with a condensed version for a revised BattleTroops. But, taking the time to map out each NPC character in a platoon seems a bit much.
(A condensed version would simply remove some of the random damage, making it quicker to track. This could be done for 'standard' NPC combat units, though. Mook units.)
So, any suggestions, or hard stats?
Thanks.
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Oh, yeah. What about standardized gear? How do you role-play a faction outfitting troops or security? What would they actually carry into an on-the-spot firefight? I recognize that this would be subject to faction, but I don't have any of the House Liao books, and I don't dare break out the other house books I do have because of their age. The only modern house book I have is the House Steiner faction book. (Handbook House Steiner? Trying to recall from memory without getting up and going to my book shelf.)
So, any quick ideas here on what an infantryman's combat kit might consist of would be nice. I think I know a basic idea would be:
Rifle
Pistol
Knife
Armor
For the heavy weapons specialist, the rifle is substituted with the heavy weapon.
Commander would probably have binocs or some other advanced tech to aid in his command.
Comms expert has radio that can break through ambient ECM?
Would that be about right?
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Some minor variations I'd like some opinion on:
The stock rules have two modes of damage for the different locations. It makes sense for unarmored damage, but some of it doesn't line up well with matching up to stock BattleTech and damage to Mechs. (I'll explain why I'm okay with the randomized location damage below under Head Cannon - Random Hit Locations)
I'm partly wanting the damage effects to scale a bit. So, I'm looking at 'leg damage' and wanting to apply the motive damage one sees for Tanks to leg hits. The way a Mech takes arm actuator damage, it slowly stacks up. I would like to see a scale of injury like that from light to disabled, instead of the two step injury system no matter how simple it is in execution.
And, I believe it can be done via hits on armor. (See Head Cannon - Armor, below.)
So, one of the things I'm looking at is two-fold:
A) Hits on 'armored locations' still take bruise damage to the Condition Monitor.
B) The armor on a hit location provides a 'damage threshold' against which damage would force an effect.
- The severity of the hit could be tracked by MOS with a scale of damage to follow or it could be a crit check like
against a Mech (possibly with a modifier based on excess damage).
C)Different weapon types might have additional effects.
- Example: a leg hit by a ballistic weapon with a solid projectile will force a balance check if the target is standing. Or
impart a modifier for any actions by the target if that person has yet to act that round.
(Sorry, Victor_Shaw, I haven't been on the boards for a while, and I haven't kept up with your optional rules, so if you tackled this, just say so, and I'll go looking.)
So, thoughts on this?
Head Cannon - Random Hit Locations
I am actually okay with the idea of randomized 'location damage' because the enemy is going to be active and the may shift at the moment you pull the trigger. They may zig when they should have zagged, so to speak. Arms in a firefight are generally going to be held close to the body when a trooper is holding and firing a weapon. And, a lot can be attributed to the major joints (shoulders and hips) that can get a disabling effect without hitting down below the thigh. The human body is a rather integrated machine, and shoulder an hip damage can be pretty light but still effect the associated limb.
So, these random shots don't have to stray very far to get the 'random' critical effect.
Head Cannon - Armor
Point One: I've long since come to conclude that front line infantry that is meant to be out among the laser beams and missiles lobbed between armored combat units are kitted out with full-body protection. But, I don't see it hampering their movement as is indicated by the MechWarrior Full Body Suit used by the Otomo. And, we're not just talking flame resistant ballistic cloth, either. Maybe a mix of that and some solid plates capable of Mech/grade protection, sort-of. It's micro thin, like what you get with DropShip Hull armor. ;)
But, this is extremely expensive, and only given to troops in a front line brigade, and sometimes rare even then. Everyone else not so equipped shouldn't be out in the open. Most of these troops are nothing more than government-funded security guards, base technicians, and artillery and transport crews. They might be armed for the rare moment to hurt an armored unit, but more often than not are meant to face off against other infantry similarly equipped. To be out on a field against armored units is almost certain suicide. Or, at least, a sure ticket back home with crippling injuries.
Point Two: I've watch a lot of Demolition Ranch and a few other videos where they test bullet protective vests. While the armor will generally work up to its failure rating, and maybe beyond, the person behind it will still be getting hurt, if only in the form of bruising. Even futuristic stuff rated for laser weaponry would get hot and burn the wearer if the beam is powerful enough.
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Here is the Sheet for review.
Okay. Now I have a hairbrained challenge for you: Vehicle sheet with individual crew blocks.
I've played around with vehicle crews as full-blown characters, with basic board game stats given to each member, and special pilot abilities applied to a specialty. For instance, each gunner mans a certain set of weapons and will have the specialist for one of the weapons they're manning, if the operate more than one type. Did this for a team under a Republic Knight for the Dark Age.
Feasible for one or two tanks. A team that's not much bigger than a lance/platoon.
I could see applying this with RPG stats for each crew member of a tank. Probably shouldn't be for all vehicle crews, as I also don't imagine it's necessary for every MechWarrior in the OpFor or NPC role.
However, since I'm only familiar with the basic rules, this brings up a question from me: Has anything done on handling vehicle crew damage when using RPG stats? I haven't read the Companion completely through to know if that was tackled there.
Do you have something on that already? (Again, playing catch-up, here.)
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To give an example, I had an SM1-Tank Destroyer in the mixed Republic Lance. According to the sheet, it has 4 crew. I assumed the Driver and Commander were obvious, and that the other two were gunners: one for the AC/20 Ultra, and one for the bevy of Light Machine Guns.
I cannot find the sheets with the individual stats, but I recall one of the gunners turning out to be a green gunner, rated 5. But, because he was a gunner, he got the UAC/20 specialist trait, which gave him a -2, making him a 3 gunner when firing that specific gun. The other gunner ended up being a modified 4 for the MGs. The driver was decent, and I gave them a vector control ability which I think allows them to lateral shift like a quad. And the Commander got an edge point.
So, the Tank sheet had two gunnery values.
But, I could see that tank sheet modified with 4 character stat blocks. Once I figure out how to handle crew damage, I think doing hero crews would be golden.
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To give an example, I had an SM1-Tank Destroyer in the mixed Republic Lance. According to the sheet, it has 4 crew. I assumed the Driver and Commander were obvious, and that the other two were gunners: one for the AC/20 Ultra, and one for the bevy of Light Machine Guns.
I cannot find the sheets with the individual stats, but I recall one of the gunners turning out to be a green gunner, rated 5. But, because he was a gunner, he got the UAC/20 specialist trait, which gave him a -2, making him a 3 gunner when firing that specific gun. The other gunner ended up being a modified 4 for the MGs. The driver was decent, and I gave them a vector control ability which I think allows them to lateral shift like a quad. And the Commander got an edge point.
So, the Tank sheet had two gunnery values.
But, I could see that tank sheet modified with 4 character stat blocks. Once I figure out how to handle crew damage, I think doing hero crews would be golden.
I will have to look at all your post and hit them one by one. Unfortunately I am back to work tomorrow and have little time during the week. (4-10 hour shifts)
Just a heads-up, I'm running a Wrath and Glory (Warhammer 40k RPG) campaign not a Battletech one, so my answers will be what I would do or would have done in that case not what I am doing.
As for modifying the sheets, you will need some form of PDF reader with editing ability, I have the full Acrobat Reader suite. Unfortunately, I never got to any of the other Vehicle sheets before I shelfed the Project for the time being, and it takes the better part of a day or two to work out each sheet which I currently don't have.
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Oh yeah. I know what you mean about it taking time to mod sheets. Take your time. That's why it's more of a hair-brained challenge. ;D
(Aside: When it comes to vehicle sheets, I can simply scan a blank page and do the mods in paint, of all things, then save it as a PDF. ',)
Not as convenient as a Reader program that allows editing. And, if you don't have physical copies of stock sheets like out of the Record sheets unabridged programs, printing them out can be expensive after a while, depending on how or with whom you print. Especially in my case, where I don't have a personal printer. Library copies are right up there at a quarter a page.)
So, yeah. Take your time.
40k RPG, eh? Any ideas how you'd stat a space marine for MW 2nd?
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This is good timing, after the fact, because I've had a question in my head the last couple of days.
Sorry for being late to respond had some hard weeks at work lately
Do you work up stats for every troop in your opfor? Or do you have stock builds you fall back on, with the difference being one or two specialty skills and localized equipment in bulk?
Normally I first work up the players and if its a Merc or House unit, I build it using the rules in the Field Manual: Merc then just role up the stats based on the experience level for the NPCs and use that.
As someone on the lazy side of GMing, I do wish they had come up with some 'stock troop' choices for soldiers. Maybe some different levels of skill for minor variety. Think about the encounters in DnD. A lot of monsters are standardized when it comes to stats and abilities. The only real difference was equipment for those beasts/enemies that could use it.
see above
So, if you do standardize, what are the base stats you fall back on for 'standard' infantry? What about a recruit fresh out of basic? What about a veteran with a couple tours of duty?
The base level stats for the chosen level (Green, Reg, Vet, etc)
And, I open this up to anyone who has done this. I'm looking for some guidelines here. When it comes to combat and OpFor, you really don't need a wide variety of skills for any given trooper. A lot of it won't get used. But, I can see some specialists with certain skills pertaining to their specialty, like a squad commander, and ordinance expert or heavy weapons specialist, maybe a tech expert for breaking into installations or keeping someone out.
Outside of unit combat I tend to only stat out NPCs when there is a need for a specialty in the adventure.
So, what bog standard trooper package do you have, and what do you leave open for those minor variations?
The Archetypes in the book work well for this.
Because, looking at the basic combat system again, it's very simple and reflects elements of BT really well, so I don't think I need to come up with a condensed version for a revised BattleTroops. But, taking the time to map out each NPC character in a platoon seems a bit much.
Don't, its not worth the time as these NPCs tend to get popped off during i=unit combat and can be a hassle to manage even if they don't
(A condensed version would simply remove some of the random damage, making it quicker to track. This could be done for 'standard' NPC combat units, though. Mook units.)
Works most of the time
So, any suggestions, or hard stats?
Thanks.
see above and your welcome.
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Oh, yeah. What about standardized gear? How do you role-play a faction outfitting troops or security? What would they actually carry into an on-the-spot firefight? I recognize that this would be subject to faction, but I don't have any of the House Liao books, and I don't dare break out the other house books I do have because of their age. The only modern house book I have is the House Steiner faction book. (Handbook House Steiner? Trying to recall from memory without getting up and going to my book shelf.)
So, any quick ideas here on what an infantryman's combat kit might consist of would be nice. I think I know a basic idea would be:
Rifle
Pistol
Knife
Armor
For the heavy weapons specialist, the rifle is substituted with the heavy weapon.
Commander would probably have binocs or some other advanced tech to aid in his command.
Comms expert has radio that can break through ambient ECM?
Would that be about right?
AToW has good kit write-ups for this.
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Head Cannon - Random Hit Locations
I am actually okay with the idea of randomized 'location damage' because the enemy is going to be active and the may shift at the moment you pull the trigger. They may zig when they should have zagged, so to speak. Arms in a firefight are generally going to be held close to the body when a trooper is holding and firing a weapon. And, a lot can be attributed to the major joints (shoulders and hips) that can get a disabling effect without hitting down below the thigh. The human body is a rather integrated machine, and shoulder an hip damage can be pretty light but still effect the associated limb.
So, these random shots don't have to stray very far to get the 'random' critical effect.
Head Cannon - Armor
Point One: I've long since come to conclude that front line infantry that is meant to be out among the laser beams and missiles lobbed between armored combat units are kitted out with full-body protection. But, I don't see it hampering their movement as is indicated by the MechWarrior Full Body Suit used by the Otomo. And, we're not just talking flame resistant ballistic cloth, either. Maybe a mix of that and some solid plates capable of Mech/grade protection, sort-of. It's micro thin, like what you get with DropShip Hull armor. ;)
But, this is extremely expensive, and only given to troops in a front line brigade, and sometimes rare even then. Everyone else not so equipped shouldn't be out in the open. Most of these troops are nothing more than government-funded security guards, base technicians, and artillery and transport crews. They might be armed for the rare moment to hurt an armored unit, but more often than not are meant to face off against other infantry similarly equipped. To be out on a field against armored units is almost certain suicide. Or, at least, a sure ticket back home with crippling injuries.
Point Two: I've watch a lot of Demolition Ranch and a few other videos where they test bullet protective vests. While the armor will generally work up to its failure rating, and maybe beyond, the person behind it will still be getting hurt, if only in the form of bruising. Even futuristic stuff rated for laser weaponry would get hot and burn the wearer if the beam is powerful enough.
I am going to say that I have never been a fan of randomized 'location damage' because, no matter what the enemy mech is doing the weapons shots are moving way faster then it would take for it to matter. I have addressed this before about the highly unrealistic shot speeds and targeting used in the Tabletop and RPG games, so I will not go into it further here.
As for armor. It all depends on the mechanics of the game and how macro or micro the modifiers actually are. It all comes down to how in the weeds you really want to get in the game.
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Some minor variations I'd like some opinion on:
The stock rules have two modes of damage for the different locations. It makes sense for unarmored damage, but some of it doesn't line up well with matching up to stock BattleTech and damage to Mechs. (I'll explain why I'm okay with the randomized location damage below under Head Cannon - Random Hit Locations)
I'm partly wanting the damage effects to scale a bit. So, I'm looking at 'leg damage' and wanting to apply the motive damage one sees for Tanks to leg hits. The way a Mech takes arm actuator damage, it slowly stacks up. I would like to see a scale of injury like that from light to disabled, instead of the two step injury system no matter how simple it is in execution.
And, I believe it can be done via hits on armor. (See Head Cannon - Armor, below.)
So, one of the things I'm looking at is two-fold:
A) Hits on 'armored locations' still take bruise damage to the Condition Monitor.
B) The armor on a hit location provides a 'damage threshold' against which damage would force an effect.
- The severity of the hit could be tracked by MOS with a scale of damage to follow or it could be a crit check like
against a Mech (possibly with a modifier based on excess damage).
C)Different weapon types might have additional effects.
- Example: a leg hit by a ballistic weapon with a solid projectile will force a balance check if the target is standing. Or
impart a modifier for any actions by the target if that person has yet to act that round.
(Sorry, Victor_Shaw, I haven't been on the boards for a while, and I haven't kept up with your optional rules, so if you tackled this, just say so, and I'll go looking.)
Some of this is touched on in the new Tactical Armor rules, and the totally revamped personal armor rules.
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Daemion
Just a heads up, none of the new rules are available at this time as they are all in Publisher format as one unfinished book.
If you want a PDF of a specific area of the rule set PM me and I will convert the pages in question to PDF and sent it to you when I find the time.
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Having have been in a group who adapted ShadowRun 5 for the Battletech setting, I found the SR5 vehicle rules/ record sheets rather works well. They did adopt other things like Battle Armor/Power Armor as well.
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For standard infantry kits, don't forget the load bearing equipment!
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Some of this is touched on in the new Tactical Armor rules, and the totally revamped personal armor rules.
Awesome. I'll go looking.
Thanks.
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Daemion
Just a heads up, none of the new rules are available at this time as they are all in Publisher format as one unfinished book.
If you want a PDF of a specific area of the rule set PM me and I will convert the pages in question to PDF and sent it to you when I find the time.
Will do.
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So my gaming group (GM here) is getting back together after a very long hiatus so my free time will be mostly spent on campaign workups.
So I will be putting work on this project into the when I have extra time slot in my RL schedule.
As such, updates will be very infrequent.
Congrads on getting the gang back together :thumbsup:
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I've figured out how to simplify stats for a BattleTroops based on this system!
It's surprisingly simple. I figured I'd briefly share here.
The average BLD is 3. And that is doubled to get the number of hit points per status level on the damage track. Almost all weapons do some number of d6 in damage, maybe with a slight modifier, or not.
The solution is to divide the the hitpoints by six for the Status Track, and drop the 'd6 +/-X' from a weapon's damage value. Yes, this makes damage much more lethal. But, I'm looking at a BattleTroops, which isn't supposed to be friendly to the game pieces when you're trying to run platoon- to company-level infantry skirmishes.
I did make some allowances for the notion of different builds by mapping out where a solid 6 damage lands on the different status tracks, and I'll share those here.
The only little hang-up I'm wondering about is whether I should give some sort of bonus/penalty for damaages that have a '+/-X' with them.
Attached are some quick character tracks based on build. These first three are children, adolescent/elderly, and normal people builds. (1, 2, & 3) One of them should look familiar. ^-^
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Here is the range I'd expect of trained and conditioned military personnel.
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And these last three are the range for Elementals and other giants.
Aside: I know that BLD 9 isn't a thing in MW 2nd. But, it filled in a theme so nicely, so I whipped it up.
Maybe could be used in on the Ogres and Ubliets world in Nebula California.
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"Average" Build is 4... anything below that imposes a penalty.
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Not according to Page 15 of my Mechwarrior2nd Edition rulebook:
Attribute Rating Table (Human)
1 Poor
2 Fair
3 Average
4 Good
5 Excellent
6 Remarkable
7+ Incredible
Edit - Elemental BLDs max at 8. Clan Pilot Phenotypes have a Max 8 Reflex Attribute. And only clan bred warriors be it elemental, pilot or mechwarrior have any other attributes that max at 7. Bog standard humans max at 6 across the board.
So, attribute of 9 is breaking into demi-god territory.
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Good point... I'm thinking of AToW. Sorry about that.
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I guessed as much. It's okay.
I've given up on AToW as a basis for a BattleTroops. The 2nd Ed system is in many ways much simpler and closely reflects an aspect of its 'parent game' of BattleTech in the form of the damage track matching the Pilot damage meter in BT.
A buddy of mine has AToW. I tried giving it a quick overview, especially looking at combat. That tome Rivals DnD's 5e in page count and, arguably, complexity.
And, since I'm doing this BattleTroops conversion simply for fun, I'm going with what's easiest.
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No argument that 2nd Ed is simpler at all... it certainly is. 3rd made no sense. I like AToW (as should be obvious by now). It could use some tweaks (see my sig block), but I do think it's the best we've gotten so far.
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And if the Devs were looking at making a BattleTroops, I imagine it would be out of AToW. Or, at least they should if they were trying to keep things integrated.
Hence why I'm not trying too hard to use that system. :thumbsup: Somebody's going to be doing that work for me.
Until then, MW 2nd is it.
Aside: It's funny to me that I see a BTrps as a potential entry point for RPG style play by cutting out all the extra specialities and skills and focusing on what's necessary for just combat. Gateway! Same reason I was thinking that AirMechs or even VToLs could be using Aero movement rules on the ground map as a means of getting people who use them familiar with the system as a Gateway for Aero combat. And! A BattleTroops doesn't even have to be made specifically for BattleTech. The could set it up for historical combat. Lure in the history war-gamers. And then implement a BattleTech weapons and equipment supplement. This would be a great way to explore BT Space Flight eras Pre-BattleMech. [Sigh][Shrug] I guess a gaming company can do only so much.
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I've used BattleTroops in sort of a RPG setting. The game was only modified because lack of Battle Armor to play with. Inner Sphere Battle Armor had submachine guns added to give it more variety (technically could fit the things.) It was highly playable despite it's age.
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Oh, yeah. BattleTroops, itself was a fine game. Since I don't know anything about MW 1st ed, I kinda wonder if that was the inspiration for the format chosen.
The problem with it was trying to integrate it with BattleTech's armored combat. They tried shoe-horning Mechs and tanks into that system when it was, by all rights, unnecessary.
And, one of the reasons I look at MW 2nd as a preferred option for BattleTroops is that it has something I can recognize from BT linking the two systems: the pilot damage chart. That is the basis for the character status track, but expanded for a new scale. That along with a body section damage system and the potential means to armor it is what sold me on this over the (what appears to me) stand-alone BattleTroops game.
Didn't BaTrps 2 introduce BattleArmor?
That's the interesting thing about a lot of the FASA BattleTech related games. Each one, in its own right, was an interesting and potentially fun game to play. But, when it came to wholistic integration, they failed. AeroTech was probably the only one that didn't fail so badly because it was largely about space combat. No aerial dogfights. And integration with a BattleTech game was a simple attack pass. Easy enough. But, BattleTroops and BattleForce didn't quite mesh.
I've steered clear of AToW for a similar reason. By taking away the status track as a link, you lost me, even though the combat is still relatively similar to MW 2nd and BattleTech in action execution. The conversion isn't as simple as looking at the pilot damage table from a Mech sheet and going from there. It also doesn't help that the Character construction rules for AToW take up half of what is a pretty large book.
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Really surprised this post is still so high on the list having been gone for awhile. ;D
So, my W&G game is still a few months out due to a major delay on the book I need (Vow of Absolution the Adeptus Astartes Sourcebook) and some guest that don't seem to want to leave living in my game room. As such I have decided to get back to work on my MW2 guide and the Academy sourcebook (in that order).
As the Poll indicated that the vast majority of you want the clans and the IS separated, I will start working on the missing early life paths for the clans first.
It will take some time for me to get up to speed and move and organize all the files from my storage drive to my working desktop so don't expect anything right away.
Planned order of attack.
1. Early and late clan childhood.
2. Clarification on Bloodnames and how they are assigned.
3. Rework of the schooling system for both Clans and Innersphere to add value to the more advanced training schools (Getting more from the NAIS) as the balanced path gutted some of the schools. This will also lead to some schools being "A Lot" harder to get into during character creation thus making the achievement worth a lot more.
4. Reorganization of the Weapons/Equipment to make it easer to find things.
5. Complete layout of RPG/TT battle system to allow for better roleplaying in vehicle combat.
6. Modification of the Battlearmor system to allow for hit location and limb damage.
7. Looking for a person to do bookmarks and an Index for the book when its done. Please PM me if interested.
I'm sure there will be more and some thing will change but these are my starting points.
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Glad to have you back, but I won't be able to help much with the clanner stuff, sorry...
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Glad to have you back, but I won't be able to help much with the clanner stuff, sorry...
Yeah, I know you are a traitor to the Star League but that's ok. ;)
Jokes aside, glade your still around pushing the evil gospel of AToW. ;D
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Heh, you bet I am! I've posted a number of squads for the various factions down in Non-Canon Units, if you're so inclined... ;)
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I can help up to 3050.. and I'm kinda get somewhat familiar with the clans... but still some of mine knowledge is "well this make sense" stuff.
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I can help up to 3050.. and I'm kinda get somewhat familiar with the clans... but still some of mine knowledge is "well this make sense" stuff.
I'll keep that in mind when I get back to the Clan Training Camp/Internship idea.
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Two major changes to the book.
1. All text has had a font change to Franklin Gothic Book with a change in size from 9.5 to 9. It's clearer to read and takes up about the same amount of space.
2. Many of the chart/table have been removed and the content imbedded into the relevant text. the old Clan warrior package are now part of the Sibko path text.
Example: Primary MechWarrior (Cost 20): Gunnery/'Mech (+10), Melee Weapons (+1), Leadership (+1), MedTech (+1), Piloting/'Mech (+6), Small Arms (+3), Navigation/Ground (+1), Tactics/Mech (+3), Computer/Mech Systems (+3), Martial Arts/Military (+1)
The last action was taken due to the large area of space being wasted on the tables.
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I'll keep that in mind when I get back to the Clan Training Camp/Internship idea.
:thumbsup:
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Update #1 (2nd Edition Advanced Rules Compendium)
Some major changes are coming with the new edition. I wanted to get some feedback on the proposed changes.
1. Rank/Vehicle/Wealth: These entries are going to get a complete overhaul based on a new system I have come up with.
Rank: will be earned on a point/saving roll bases divorced from the Advantage system and more based on the characters choices during Education and Past Experience and some luck. Characters will be assigned rank points during Education based on the school they attend, this will be the base level they start with. The Education Random table will also have rewards for higher rolls that add to this. Each Past Experience path associated with their rank that a players finishes will also provide a Promotion entry consisting of a saving throw TN that if the player hits will add points to the total. At the end of creation the points will be compared to the Rank chart associated with their service.
Vehicle: The priority table will no longer provide direct vehicle type entries (Light, Med, Etc,) but will now provide Vehicle points (0,1,2, Etc.) as a starting block. Like above, paths will add to these points as character creation goes on (+2, +1, +4, Etc.). At the end the player will have a Vehicle Pool (Example: 8 points) that can be used to work out what size vehicle they start with, do they own it or did a patron/House provide it, does it have any flaws, is it a custom model, Etc..
Wealth: Wealth will be an expendable resource during character creation. Players will start with a set amount that will be modified by life path choices, Event table, requirements for schools and paths, and some equipment options, and a few advantage/disadvantages. At the close of Character creation players will have a final wealth point total to compare to the final wealth chart with negatives indicating debt an positives equaling extra starting cash. All players will start with the baseline c-bill amount indicated in MW2 as a minimum. with negatives indicating outstanding loans and positives indicating windfalls or good investments.
2. As stated before, schools are getting another update with higher tier schools being far harder to enter, but the rewards will be worth it. The new book will also dive deeper into the civilian schools/careers. Yes making Indiana Kurita will now be a thing. ;D
3. Skills and advantage/disadvantages are getting a new run through to both fix them to the new changes and to trim out the fat. Both kind of exploded in number during the last run so I'm looking to trim it down.
4. Font and Layout changes as stated earlier.
5. Advanced rules for Schools and Sibko training
6. A how to for each stage of the character creation for finishing creation at different stages in life.
7. Some terminality changes to better represent character creation through the new system. Paths are now stages, Clans and Innersphere have different stages from one another. Clans have stages Phenotype increases based on age. (Phenotype changes appear over time and not as one lump sum)
8. Terms (2 year) with grade saving throws will be added to Academies/Universities/Internships/Sibko training to allow for things like Washing/Failing Out and to fix issues with min/maxing and to better fit in with the upcoming Academy Days supplement. For example, While a typical Mechwarrior training center may have a simple Physical (-1 TN) roll, some place like NAIS will have (depending on the major) a Mental (+3 TN) and a Physical (+1 TN) every Term to continue in the stage. With the edition of variable age to this stage, this allows for characters to flunkout of one academy and move to training camp or leaser academy so they can still reach their goal. This also allows for better use of the different School packages (Academy/University) and allows me to spread the bonuses out to better facilitate Washing/Failing Out with out long rule sections on how to remove and redirect skill. While Academy/University packages (Basic/Advanced) still exist, which ones you take will be based on the School you enter and how far you get in the curriculum.
9. Schools that provide no real bonus or flavor outside of name will be relegated to the category of "other names for the generic Academies/Universities".
10. Etc.
Yeah, this is a full on restructuring of the Character creation system. Mechanically the games core will remain the same but a lot of the fixers will be changing. Thus the change in name to 2nd Edition Advanced Rules Compendium
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I look forward to seeing how you implemented the Vehicle trait... that sounds like a good plan! :thumbsup:
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A school that should be in there if it is not, is TC Special Asteroid Support Force.. Seeing how they kept them right along. Including using XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor and are well trained in Zero G operations.
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A school that should be in there if it is not, is TC Special Asteroid Support Force.. Seeing how they kept them right along. Including using XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor and are well trained in Zero G operations.
I'd be tempted to make the different schools a separate document. Go with a few archetypes in the main book with a slight bit of potential customization, and the basic character creation.
If you want a variety of schools, use a second book for that. Just be careful that this secondary book doesn't start a power creep.
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Fast Learner and Slow Learner got a make-over in this edition.
Tell me what you think. :thumbsup:
(3) Fast Learner: The Fast Learner advantage is available only when gained through event rolls or with GM’s permission. A character with the Fast Learner Advantage can pick up and improve Skills at faster rate than many other characters of equal intelligence. During character creation the PC gains a bonus of 3 skill points during each stage. These points may only be used to finish skills that are short of reaching the next level and any that are not spent are lost. Note: this bonus is only available after the stage Fast Learner is gain. All rule regarding skill level gain in character creation still apply. During play Fast Learner reduces the skill point cost of raising a skill by -2. (from 10 to 8 ). Note: This reduction is cumulative with the reduction from Tech Empathy. (from 10 to 7)
(3) Slow Learner: The Slow Learner disadvantage is available only when gained through event rolls. A character with the Slow Learner Disadvantage will pick up and improve Skills at a slower rate than other characters of equal intelligence. During character creation the character loses 3 skill points ever stage. This loss can be taken from the character bonus pool or any bonus that the character gains during the current stage. Note: this penalty is only available after the stage Slow Learner is gain. All rule regarding skill level gain in character creation still apply. During play, Slow Learner increases the skill point cost of raising a skill by +2. (from 10 to 12). Note: This increase is cumulative with the increase from Gremlins. (from 10 to 13)
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I'd be tempted to make the different schools a separate document. Go with a few archetypes in the main book with a slight bit of potential customization, and the basic character creation.
If you want a variety of schools, use a second book for that. Just be careful that this secondary book doesn't start a power creep.
While this is normally a thing with Official publications, I see it as a corporate way to reduce page count and gouge for more money.
It also leads to the power creep you fear and unbalancing in the game.
As this is a free online production I don't seen the need.
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A school that should be in there if it is not, is TC Special Asteroid Support Force.. Seeing how they kept them right along. Including using XCT Marine Exoskeletal Armor and are well trained in Zero G operations.
The changes to the Academy/University section are more to facilitate the new education progression system then anything else.
The main problem with the way MW2 handled Education was it was equal parts to complicated and to simple at the same time.
The Academy/University packages were way to generic and don't fit well into anything more then a lump sum equation.
The new packages are geared towards steady and accumulative progression.
For ease of explanation I will provide them here for review.
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New Education Packages
Academy/University Packages
1 Term Package: 9 pts (12)
3 Skills at (+3)
3 Skills at (+1)
2 Term Package: 12 pts (16)
4 Skills at (+3)
4 Skills at (+1)
3 Term Package: 15 pts (20)
2 Skills at (+6)
2 Skills at (+3)
2 Skills at (+1)
4 Term Package: 18 pts (24)
2 Skills at (+6)
3 Skills at (+3)
3 Skills at (+1)
6 Term Package: 21 pts (28)
2 Skills at (+6)
4 Skills at (+3)
4 Skills at (+1)
8 Term Package: 24 pts (32)
1 Skill at (+10)
2 Skills at (+6)
2 Skills at (+3)
4 Skills at (+1)
They will have better names in the finished product (suggestions are welcome), but this is what I am looking at right now.
The idea is that say you go to a 4 year university but flunkout in your 3rd year you can take the 2 Term package to represent you time there and if you still have the points go to a 1 year military enlistment and finish your training. All you waste is the year.
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You lose skills going from 2 to 3 and 6 to 8 terms? ???
Fast/Slow Learner seems fiddly, but so was the original, so no loss there.
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You lose skills going from 2 to 3 and 6 to 8 terms? ???
Fast/Slow Learner seems fiddly, but so was the original, so no loss there.
It Looks odd but it's about the skill point cost not the number of skills.
You gain the one that indicates the furthest level of education that you obtained at the institution.
You don't actual lose or gain anything as you don't get one then the other.
Also, do to the way the schools work you would not normally go from 2 to 3 or 6 to 8
its normally 2 to 4, 4 to 6, or 4 to 8 so it works out better when you see it in the schools.
As for Fast/Slow Learner, what do you mean by fiddly?
If you are taking about the character creation part, that is just to give it a bonus during that stage.
The real bonus is the reduction in the cost to raise a skill during play.
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I'm just considering a life path where the character washes out but comes back later to finish. I think it would make more sense if each semester/year builds on the previous ones.
As for "fiddly", I get the main bonus is the ongoing reduction in costs, but that doesn't necessarily reduce the complexity in character creation.
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I'm just considering a life path where the character washes out but comes back later to finish. I think it would make more sense if each semester/year builds on the previous ones.
As for "fiddly", I get the main bonus is the ongoing reduction in costs, but that doesn't necessarily reduce the complexity in character creation.
As I said they are no longer life paths, they are stages.
If you are washed-out you are not coming back later to finish.
What I was saying is you don't lose completed semesters from Washing-out.
What I was suggesting is: If you finish your Semester 4 package time and saves, then you fail you Semester 6 or 8 package (one or the other you don't do both), you pay for and gain the effects of the Semester 4 package.
There is no in-between gains during this process. You don't gain the Semester 4 package then move to the Semester 6 package.
You either gain the Semester 4 package or you gain the Semester 6 package
You only gain the final package you saved for they are not linked in any other way, other then you can try for the next highest package if you allotted the points.
Now in "Academy Days" it does work that way as you actual gain the skills one level at a time and get a refund on skills you didn't gain from your major before you fail out.
The problem with progression being smooth in MW2 is that not the way skills work.
The skill progression is 1 point, 3 points, 6 points, 10 points, etc..
So to get the cost progression where I want it 9,12,15,18,21,24 the balance needs the change in skill numbers.
There is also the skill cost reduction issue (2/3 cost) from the Innersphere packages that has to be addressed meaning that packages have to equal multiples of 4 for it to work right or you come up with fractions.
Lastly, you have the issues that the packages are limited to total cost based on the priority table, max skill points 24.
As for Fast/Slow Learner, not sure how this changes the complexity in character creation in any way.
Characters in the "2nd Edition Advanced Rules" already carry bonus points from one stage to the next.
This is just adding or subtracting 3 points from that.
Unlike in AToW and 3rd, in the 2nd Edition Advanced Rules skills, attributes, and advantages are finalized at the end of each Stage.
For attributes and advantages this is easy as they are full point gains.
For skills, a skill must be brought to the next level barring LRN restrictions, or the points fall into the bonus skill pool.
The skill pool is used to bring skill to the next level if still below LRN, or bring Dedicated skill gains up to the next level in spite of LRN, Pay for extra rerolls on the event tables (3 Skill points, yes you can use Fast Learner for this), Traded for advantage or Rank/Wealth/Vehicle points on a 4 for 1 bases (End of final stage only).
Dedicated skill: Normally bonus skill points are gained in groups that can be assigned to any skill under that group (Basic Training, MOS, Etc.), but some skills are granted as Dedicated skill where all points must be spent on that skill. this is the only case where a skill may exceed the PCs LRN during Stages 1-3, but may not gain more then 2 levels above LRN or 2 levels in a single Stage.
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I look forward to the "Academy Days" rules... :)
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Is the vehicle point pool already drawn from Mech assignment? If so, that's pretty cool. If not, I would recommend using that for Mech assignment, as well.
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Is the vehicle point pool already drawn from Mech assignment? If so, that's pretty cool. If not, I would recommend using that for Mech assignment, as well.
The point pool is a multi-spectrum pool.
It effect just about everything having to do with your vehicle, fixing some of the issues I had with both MW2 and AToWs handling of the subject.
You Starting pool is 2x the priority point you spend on it plus any gains from Stage choices, Random Events, Specific Advantages, Etc.
It is used for;
1. Base vehicle weight.
2. To move one step up or down Mech assignment table per point.
3. Owning the vehicle.
4. Having a custom model.
5. Having Quirks and Flaws.
It is even used to determine how much you owe to the back for a dropship.
Does that cover it?
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That's good to see. Thanks.
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I'd still like to see the full Vehicle rules... 8)
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So it has been quite some time since I was last able to post on this.
As I have given over my GM duties to a trusted friend, and work has stabilized for the most part. I will once again be working on this as it is a passion project of mine, and the PTB have shown little interest in fixing AToW, as obvious with their patchwork fix of just making the point based system to core one.
That said I would like to start by making a few thing clear (clearer) this time.
1. This is a passion project of mine and in the end for me that I am putting out there, as in the past other have show interest in the results. As such, while I will ask for advice and implement well augured changes, in the end some may not agree with me and that's fine. You do you and I'll do me.
2. The elephant in the room (AToW/3rd similarities): While you will find some of the rules seem to be transfers from AToW, this will in general be due to either new material added to AToW/3rd after the end of 2nd and not covered in the latter, or mechanics that were not covered or I feel work better from these two products. This is not an attempt to in full convert AToW/3rd to 2nd mechanics, and should not be (will not be) approached as such. No argument of "but in AToW/3rd" will be entertained. That said, if a good argument for how AToW/3rd did something can be made, it will be considered.
3. Lastly, for the people that already know why I have been absent from all the rest of the forum and have taken to avoiding posting for the most part, nothing has changed on that front so PMing me or posting to this thread are is still the best way to contact me.
Now on to the work at hand.
My time off has given me time to look over what I have done so far and find that I may have gone to far in some areas (skill list, etc.) and fallen short in others (Priority system balance). So as opposed to continuing with what I have and just modifying this or that, I plan to do a complete overhaul of the work from the ground up with the current documents as a template.
Major changes out of the gate.
Name: MechWarrior 2.5 (3025-3050+ InnerSphere Core).
Books: MechWarrior 2.5, Beyond the static (ComStar 3025-3050+), The Clans (Golden age/3050+ Expansion), MechWarrior Legends (Age of War/Starleauge Expansion), Academy Days (Advanced rules for InnerSphere Academy campaigns), Sibko:Way of the Clans (Advanced rules for Clans Sibko campaigns), MechWarrior Field Guide (Integrating Battletech+Mechwarrior)
Reasons for the above:
1. Trying to integrate an unfinished rule system with multiple factions that handle Character creation/advancement differently is one of the main reason why the system became unwieldy.
2. This gives me a chance to work out the bugs in the Main system without having to worry about how everything else works in before it is even finished.
3. The books are for the most part in order of their importance to the RPG as a whole and having them as separate parts will allow GMs/Players to add them at their leisure.
4. it cuts down on the work load for me.
Now to be clear, this is just how they will be worked on and released for playtest and first run. After all of the parts are done a full Edition: Mechwarrior 2 Advanced will be compiled and released.
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Glad to see you back! :)
That said, I'm still an AToW booster, but totally get your position. I'll try to limit my commentary here to helping your project. :)
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Glad to see this back..
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Good to see some new postings here!
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Glad to see you back! :)
That said, I'm still an AToW booster, but totally get your position. I'll try to limit my commentary here to helping your project. :)
You know you where never a problem.
But had to make the statement since in the past others have tried to push there ideas even after I said no.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence! :)
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P.O.L.
Have been working on organizing the Current/New files and purging Old ones for some time now, their are a lot. (160 Files, 13 Folders after cleaning)
Plan on working on it most of this weekend, so will have some updates later this week.
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Progress is progress! :)
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When TRO: 3050 came out, I didn't have rules for the Clans until MW2e came out. I tend to separate the Clans from the Inner-Sphere; I'll run a game, were all the PCs are Clans or, they're all Inner-Sphere (Kurita, Fourth-Succession War campaign, in MW2e, etc. Now that the new stuff has come out, I'd like to run a Clan/Inner-Sphere integrated 3145 game.
Oh, yeah. BattleTroops, itself was a fine game. Since I don't know anything about MW 1st ed, I kinda wonder if that was the inspiration for the format chosen. . . .
Not even close; the one thing I like about Fasa, is they were very creative with their gaming-systems. Every system (Shadow-Run, Legionnaire etc.), is different. Every game-system is different than the previous one, no matter if they are a part of the same game-line.
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When TRO: 3050 came out, I didn't have rules for the Clans until MW2e came out. I tend to separate the Clans from the Inner-Sphere; I'll run a game, were all the PCs are Clans or, they're all Inner-Sphere (Kurita, Fourth-Succession War campaign, in MW2e, etc. Now that the new stuff has come out, I'd like to run a Clan/Inner-Sphere integrated 3145 game.
This is more true then anyone really gets. Running a mixed campaign is close to impossible before the Jihad and to me the forced integration of the two has greatly undermined the Battletech universe.
Not even close; the one thing I like about Fasa, is they were very creative with their gaming-systems. Every system (Shadow-Run, Legionnaire etc.), is different. Every game-system is different than the previous one, no matter if they are a part of the same game-line.
Except that Shadowrun DMZ is almost a carbon-copy Battletroops. :evil:
That said, this their are a lot of similarities between some of the game lines. (MW2 and Shadowrun 2nd Priority tables)
And The differenced within the game lines has lead to a lot of the issues with integrating the different combat arms without having to nurf one or the other.
So this is not always a good thing.
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Looking forward to the update
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P.O.L.
Just to let everyone know, there have been not real updates because most of what I have been working on is Master page design, and converting existing files to new fonts and, layout work on areas that do not need much or any changes.
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Progress is progress, thanks for the update! :)
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If you ever get to a point with the life path system that you think you can turn it into a path style game board, I want to see it. I still think the Life Path system could be turned into a stand-alone board game. :tongue:
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Sorry for the long wait for no progress.
Unfortunately I have been down for the last two months with Bronchitis with major complications do to a thyroid issues that has had me in and out of the hospital.
Still not fully recovered so I can't give any real plan moving forward, but will see what the next few months allow for.
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Take your time. Do it when you feel able to. Just let us know when download link is available when your ready.
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Get well soon! Chronic medical conditions are the worst (outside of the acute issues that kill you outright)... :/