Behemoth (PWS)

[ABADDON]

Sure about that?
Trust me, I would just show your PWSs my arse and start running. Things would get very ugly soon.

Code: [Select]

               
Class/Model/Name:  Bully (Corvette)
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3090
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 3, Custom design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              250.000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            400 meters
Sail Diameter:     926 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   42 ELRM-20*
   42 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*
   42 V-S Laser Large*
    4 Screen Launcher
   15 Piranha*
   12 Heavy NPPC
    3 Medium NPPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Bully (Corvette)
Mass:              250.000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       60.000,00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 7)                113.125,00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              42,00
Structural Integrity: 60                                            15.000,00
Total Heat Sinks:    2.102 Double                                    1.711,00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   5.100,00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                625,00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   ,00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (336 total armor pts)             300,00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 51
   Fore-Left/Right:                   51/51
   Aft-Left/Right:                    51/51
   Aft:                                  81

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (4) with 1 door                                 800,00
   Bay 2:  Cargo (1) with 1 door                                       500,00

Grav Decks #1 - 3:  (90-meter diameter)                                150,00

Crew and Passengers:
     30 Officers (29 minimum)                                          300,00
    100 Crew (65 minimum)                                              700,00
     45 Gunners (55 minimum)                                           315,00
     20 Bay Personnel                                                     ,00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     Nose     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)   60    168,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 Nose   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   12    180,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         Nose     6(60)  6(60)     --     --   60     54,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)Nose        --     --     --     --   10    140,00
1 Piranha*(10 msls)        Nose         3      3      3     --    9    200,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     FL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 FL/R   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         FL/R     6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
2 Piranha*(20 msls)        FL/R         6      6      6     --   36    800,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)L/RBS       --     --     --     --   20    280,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     L/RBS    7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 L/RBS  13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         L/RBS    6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
1 Piranha*(10 msls)        L/RBS        3      3      3     --   18    400,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     AL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 AL/R   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         AL/R     6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
2 Piranha*(20 msls)        AL/R         6      6      6     --   36    800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)Aft         --     --     --     --   10    140,00
4 Piranha*(40 msls)        Aft         12     12     12     --   36    800,00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1,00%)                                            2.500,00
1 Large NCSS                                                           500,00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4.204     249.442,00
Tons Left:                                                             558,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2.579.560.000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      113.619
Cost per BV:       22.703,6
Weapon Value:      47.771 (Ratio = ,42)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 4.039;  MRV = 3.726;  LRV = 2.221;  ERV = 725
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 347.821
                   (93.650 Structure, 141.062 Life Support, 113.109 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 202.010  (58% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable


[Diablo48]

Sure about that?
Trust me, I would just show your PWSs my arse and start running. Things would get very ugly soon.

Code: [Select]

               
Class/Model/Name:  Bully (Corvette)
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3090
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 3, Custom design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              250.000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            400 meters
Sail Diameter:     926 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   42 ELRM-20*
   42 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*
   42 V-S Laser Large*
    4 Screen Launcher
   15 Piranha*
   12 Heavy NPPC
    3 Medium NPPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Bully (Corvette)
Mass:              250.000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       60.000,00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 7)                113.125,00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              42,00
Structural Integrity: 60                                            15.000,00
Total Heat Sinks:    2.102 Double                                    1.711,00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   5.100,00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                625,00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   ,00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (336 total armor pts)             300,00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 51
   Fore-Left/Right:                   51/51
   Aft-Left/Right:                    51/51
   Aft:                                  81

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (4) with 1 door                                 800,00
   Bay 2:  Cargo (1) with 1 door                                       500,00

Grav Decks #1 - 3:  (90-meter diameter)                                150,00

Crew and Passengers:
     30 Officers (29 minimum)                                          300,00
    100 Crew (65 minimum)                                              700,00
     45 Gunners (55 minimum)                                           315,00
     20 Bay Personnel                                                     ,00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     Nose     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)   60    168,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 Nose   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   12    180,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         Nose     6(60)  6(60)     --     --   60     54,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)Nose        --     --     --     --   10    140,00
1 Piranha*(10 msls)        Nose         3      3      3     --    9    200,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     FL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 FL/R   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         FL/R     6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
2 Piranha*(20 msls)        FL/R         6      6      6     --   36    800,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)L/RBS       --     --     --     --   20    280,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     L/RBS    7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 L/RBS  13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         L/RBS    6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
1 Piranha*(10 msls)        L/RBS        3      3      3     --   18    400,00
6 ELRM-20*(240 rounds)     AL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  7(72)  120    336,00
6 I-Heavy Gauss Rifle*(240 AL/R   13(132)13(132)13(132)     --   24    360,00
6 V-S Laser Large*         AL/R     6(60)  6(60)     --     --  120    108,00
2 Piranha*(20 msls)        AL/R         6      6      6     --   36    800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
4 Heavy NPPC               Aft         69     69     69     69  900 12.000,00
  1 Medium NPPC                                                 135  1.800,00
1 Screen Launcher(10 scrns)Aft         --     --     --     --   10    140,00
4 Piranha*(40 msls)        Aft         12     12     12     --   36    800,00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1,00%)                                            2.500,00
1 Large NCSS                                                           500,00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4.204     249.442,00
Tons Left:                                                             558,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2.579.560.000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      113.619
Cost per BV:       22.703,6
Weapon Value:      47.771 (Ratio = ,42)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 4.039;  MRV = 3.726;  LRV = 2.221;  ERV = 725
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 347.821
                   (93.650 Structure, 141.062 Life Support, 113.109 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 202.010  (58% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable


You can run, but the ASFs will still catch you and tear you to pieces even without nukes.

[CloaknDagger]

You can run, but the ASFs will still catch you and tear you to pieces even without nukes.

It depends on how many of them there are. If he books it away from the fight, they'll get a couple turns of weapons fire from him. ERLMs have quite a long range.

[Prince of Darkness]

Why have all those Naval PPCS in the butt?

[CloaknDagger]

Why have all those Naval PPCS in the butt?

Cowardice.

[ABADDON]

There was a reason I included a Large NCSS :D

I would have a little headstart. And given the secondary armament, you would need to bring a lot ASF to the table. Using BV I don't actually think you would be able to bring the assumed three droppers plus ASF complement.

Point is, if you want to use PWS for the killing part, you will die without doing any damage.
You either bring Krakens or you're not having a PWS, but a carrier where the ASFs do the job. But then that's the carrier side of the PWS doing the killing, not the PWS side.

[ABADDON]

Cowardice.

Tell that to the designer of the McKenna. ;)

[CloaknDagger]

Tell that to the designer of the McKenna. ;)

McKenna needs them in the back so that it can shoot people in every direction at the same time.  ;)

"Men! They're ahead of us! They're behind us! They're to the left of us! They're to the right of us! They can't escape this time!"

[sillybrit]

Tell that to the designer of the McKenna. ;)

The designer of the McKenna put its NPPC bays in the broadside and aft-quarter arcs, not the aft. A McKenna can slow the rate of closure and strike with one or both of those arcs, and can roll to present fresh armor, without having to expose the vulnerable crits in the aft arc.

Your design may be able to slow the rate of closure even more, but it's forced to cross its own T to bring its NPPCs to bear. That's bad.

[ABADDON]

Hm, maybe I should have had another look at the McKenna's design instead of just recollecting from (obviously bad) memory, before posting.

but it's forced to cross its own T to bring its NPPCs to bear. That's bad.

Could you elaborate please?

[CloaknDagger]

Could you elaborate please?

It's a maneuver where you swing around and broadside someone in the nose.

[Diablo48]

There was a reason I included a Large NCSS :D

I would have a little headstart. And given the secondary armament, you would need to bring a lot ASF to the table. Using BV I don't actually think you would be able to bring the assumed three droppers plus ASF complement.

Point is, if you want to use PWS for the killing part, you will die without doing any damage.
You either bring Krakens or you're not having a PWS, but a carrier where the ASFs do the job. But then that's the carrier side of the PWS doing the killing, not the PWS side.

The point of having a flexible ship is that you can adapt your own tactics to deal with whatever the enemy throws at you.  In this case, the enemy wants to run away and point lots of big ship-killing guns to the rear while the anti-fighter guns point everywhere else, so you can stay out of range with the PWS and let the ASFs close in for the kill with minimal fear of reprisal because there are no conventional weapons pointing directly aft.

The designer of the McKenna put its NPPC bays in the broadside and aft-quarter arcs, not the aft. A McKenna can slow the rate of closure and strike with one or both of those arcs, and can roll to present fresh armor, without having to expose the vulnerable crits in the aft arc.

Your design may be able to slow the rate of closure even more, but it's forced to cross its own T to bring its NPPCs to bear. That's bad.

They are also nice for orbital bombardment because rear weapons help conserve fuel by reducing the number of turns you need to make to maintain altitude and firing in other directions besides directly aft.  After all, there are plenty of angles between directly to the sides and directly aft they can hit just fine without giving the enemy a clear shot at the engines.

[CloaknDagger]

Another thing:

Tele-operated missiles need clear LOS to keep the connection to the gunner targeting them.

Normally, that's not a problem in space.

But Screen Launchers block LOS.

[ABADDON]

The point of having a flexible ship is that you can adapt your own tactics to deal with whatever the enemy throws at you.  In this case, the enemy wants to run away and point lots of big ship-killing guns to the rear while the anti-fighter guns point everywhere else, so you can stay out of range with the PWS and let the ASFs close in for the kill with minimal fear of reprisal because there are no conventional weapons pointing directly aft.

Well, if your CARRIER decides to stay behind anyway, there's nothing keeping the Bully from turning to a full broadside of dedicated anti ASF armament. And there are still 2 Piranha launchers Aft. Just saying. :P
If the carrier is following, it would be toast within very few rounds. Then the scenario above would still apply.

Anyways, I only threw that thing together to prove that even at such a low end weight a warship could still easily core anything (bigger than an ASF) stupid enough to close with it.

[ABADDON]

Another thing:

Tele-operated missiles need clear LOS to keep the connection to the gunner targeting them.

Normally, that's not a problem in space.

But Screen Launchers block LOS.

Are you referring to hostile Screens or the PWS's own screen?
Gameplay-wise I see the point, in-universe that wouldn't be a problem at all, since you could easily change altitude of both, teleoperated missile as well as PWS.

[CloaknDagger]

Are you referring to hostile Screens or the PWS's own screen?
Gameplay-wise I see the point, in-universe that wouldn't be a problem at all, since you could easily change altitude of both, teleoperated missile as well as PWS.

Yes, but you also have to account for the distance and such. A cloud of SL gets more and more effective the farther you weapons go. And against something with multiple screen launchers per arc...

[ABADDON]

Yeah, well... in the end it's still just a dropship. ;) There's only so much you can expect against custom warships.
Though multiple Screen launchers per arc? Does that even make sense? Don't think so...

[Diablo48]

Well, if your CARRIER decides to stay behind anyway, there's nothing keeping the Bully from turning to a full broadside of dedicated anti ASF armament. And there are still 2 Piranha launchers Aft. Just saying. :P
If the carrier is following, it would be toast within very few rounds. Then the scenario above would still apply.

Anyways, I only threw that thing together to prove that even at such a low end weight a warship could still easily core anything (bigger than an ASF) stupid enough to close with it.

Turning just makes it easier for the big ones that can ignore your guns to get close, and you are once again throwing out the premise of the DropShip by calling it a carrier.  It is no more a carrier than the Leviathan II is.  Sure it has a hefty fighter complement, but it also has lots of guns and armor in its own right so it can serve as the core of a self-contained flotilla which will then be employed to maximum effectiveness based on the opposition it encounters.

As for your WarShip design, it is absurdly stupid with no cargo worth speaking of and an absurdly lopsided armament and nothing to back up the guns which will leave it in serious trouble in anything other than a duel.  Really the best solution to that is to run it into the ground with probing passes by the ASFs because it will run out of consumables long before the DropShip does even after accounting for the ASFs.  This makes it a straw man argument because it is not really a viable design in its own right so it should not be used as a comparison point for anything.

[ABADDON]

As for your WarShip design, it is absurdly stupid with no cargo worth speaking of and an absurdly lopsided armament and nothing to back up the guns which will leave it in serious trouble in anything other than a duel.  Really the best solution to that is to run it into the ground with probing passes by the ASFs because it will run out of consumables long before the DropShip does even after accounting for the ASFs.  This makes it a straw man argument because it is not really a viable design in its own right so it should not be used as a comparison point for anything.

:D
The cargo is more than sufficient for the crew, fuel for the small crafts and for spare parts.
Ammunition is plenty, warship's fuel is more than ok for a regular mission.
WHAT ON EARTH would it need more cargo for, please enlighten me.

Again your premise is simply false concerning your presumed "PWS".
On the one hand you intend to use it as a carrier, by using the ASF complement to do 100% of the work. That is ok.

If you don't use Capital missiles like the Kraken, you would need to close, if you ever intend to use it in a function as actual PWS.
And in the moment you do that, your PWS DIES. Immediately. (less "immediately" maybe on a more canon oriented design)
But you keep on pressing the claim that you would use it as a PWS, despite better knowledge. Only a PWS pilot with a deathwish would do that.
That's why I called it "CARRIER".

[ABADDON]

Ups... forgot to add in the leftovers to the cargo.

Code: [Select]

Tons Left:                                                             558,00
That would make for 1058 tons of cargo.
But even with 500 tons of consumables the crew would last for 513 days, so your claim is just outright wrong.
Even though the couple of dudes in the bay would needed to get more per day ( 20 people per ton per day in contrast to 200). But since they are so few, it wouldn't really impact things.

[CloaknDagger]

Alright guys, is this a better multi-purpose ship? It's armament leaves something to be desired. Should I swap the SC/L-1s for SC/L-3s?

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name:  Multi-Purpose Corvette MkIV
Tech:              Mixed Tech  /  3132
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              100,000 tons
Length:            200 meters
Power Plant:       Standard (C)
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
  120 AMS (C)
   30 Screen Launcher(IS)
  120 ER PPC (C)
   36 SCL/1-DS(IS)*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Multi-Purpose Corvette MkIV
Mass:              100,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       24,400.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 55                                            11,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    1,650 Double                                    1,453.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   2,040.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                750.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              2,808.00
Food & Water:  (368 days supply)                                       924.00
Armor Type:  Clan Ferro-aluminum  (1,883 total armor pts)              198.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                539
   Left/Right Sides:                 470/470
   Aft:                                 404

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (20) with 4 doors                             5,000.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (100) with 8 doors                              15,000.00
           Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                    5,000.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 10 doors                                  12,130.00


Crew and Passengers:
     40 Officers (28 minimum)                                          400.00
     30 Crew (0 minimum)                                               210.00
    110 Gunners (106 minimum)                                          770.00
     12 1st Class Passengers                                           120.00
     10 Marines                                                         50.00
    300 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 AMS (C)(2160 rounds)    Nose        --     --     --     --   20    100.00
5 Screen Launcher(IS)(100 sNose        --     --     --     --   50  1,200.00
20 ER PPC (C)              Nose   30(300)30(300)30(300)     --  300    120.00
6 SCL/1-DS(IS)*(60 msls)   Nose         6      6      6     --  144    900.00
20 AMS (C)(2160 rounds)    FL/R        --     --     --     --   40    200.00
5 Screen Launcher(IS)(100 sFL/R        --     --     --     --  100  2,400.00
20 ER PPC (C)              FL/R   30(300)30(300)30(300)     --  600    240.00
6 SCL/1-DS(IS)*(60 msls)   FL/R         6      6      6     --  288  1,800.00
20 AMS (C)(2160 rounds)    AL/R        --     --     --     --   40    200.00
5 Screen Launcher(IS)(100 sAL/R        --     --     --     --  100  2,400.00
20 ER PPC (C)              AL/R   30(300)30(300)30(300)     --  600    240.00
6 SCL/1-DS(IS)*(60 msls)   AL/R         6      6      6     --  288  1,800.00
20 AMS (C)(2160 rounds)    Aft         --     --     --     --   20    100.00
5 Screen Launcher(IS)(100 sAft         --     --     --     --   50  1,200.00
20 ER PPC (C)              Aft    30(300)30(300)30(300)     --  300    120.00
6 SCL/1-DS(IS)*(60 msls)   Aft          6      6      6     --  144    900.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.50%)                                            1,500.00
1 Naval C3                                                           1,827.00
1 Large Naval-Comm Scanner                                             500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 3,084     100,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        3,479,784,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      75,430
Cost per BV:       46,132.63
Weapon Value:      31,755 (Ratio = .42)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 2,530;  MRV = 1,630;  LRV = 760;  ERV = 100
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,046,389
                   (907,869 Structure, 73,900 Life Support, 64,620 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 227,320  (22% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 4,  Armor/Structure: 32 / 31
                   Damage PB/M/L: 72/72/72,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 754
                   Specials: sph



[ABADDON]

No. SCL/1 is the only sub-cap laser that's good.

[CloaknDagger]

No. SCL/1 is the only sub-cap laser that's good.

Well then, what do you think I should do about arming this thing? I'm trying to give it the ability to haul cargo too, and I've already shaven the 30k cargo bay down to 12k.

[ABADDON]

Well, you know my attitute towards PWS armament, since this thing will not be able to kill warships in its own right. :P
But I guess it looks ok for all the rest of stuff.
However for Ortillery I would put a couple of more SCLs in the butt.
Though I would make use of all the bays and split the 100 (go with 108, a wing has usually 18 ASF) into three or four bays. And you could use 9 instead of 8 doors according to TechManual.
If the use of Clan weaponry and Clan engine is not by mistake then stick with the 100 instead of the suggested 108.

[CloaknDagger]

Well, you know my attitute towards PWS armament, since this thing will not be able to kill warships in its own right. :P
But I guess it looks ok for all the rest of stuff.
However for Ortillery I would put a couple of more SCLs in the butt.

The problem is that I'm low on tonnage. I got SC/Ls so I didn't need to worry about weight much, or ammo taking up cargo space.

[ABADDON]

Well, the ridiculous amount of Screen launcher could be reduced to 1 in the bow and arse. That is usually more than a dropper needs.
That would free up quite a lot of tonnage.

[sillybrit]

Could you elaborate please?

Crossing the T is when one combatant gets to shoot their broadside (typically the strongest firing arc) at the bow or stern of their opponent. With the courses of the two vessels perpendicular to each other, from above their tracks look like a T, hence the name.

Back in the age of sail, when broadside armaments dominated, this was bad because not only was the victim unable to return fire with the majority of their armament, but the bow and stern planking was generally weaker than the flanks. Once we get to armored & turreted steam ships and later, it's still bad because of the limits on return fire.

In BattleTech, return fire may or may not be limited depending upon the armament layout, although 3 arcs (broadside and both quarters) will typically beat 1 arc, but in either case you're definitely risking some very important potential crits, plus you deny yourself the ability to roll the ship to present a fresh side of armor without otherwise changing your course and firing arcs.

Crossing the T is ideally thus something you want to try to do to your enemy, not do to yourself. Designs that rely upon a strong nose and/or aft armament, with lesser side firepower, are thus playing a risky game.

[CloaknDagger]

Well, the ridiculous amount of Screen launcher could be reduced to 1 in the bow and arse. That is usually more than a dropper needs.
That would free up quite a lot of tonnage.

Right, so 2 all around then.

Well, after reducing it to 2 screen launchers all around, and fixing the error I made with Naval C3, I come up with -638 tons.

[ABADDON]

Crossing the T is when one combatant gets to shoot their broadside (typically the strongest firing arc) at the bow or stern of their opponent. With the courses of the two vessels perpendicular to each other, from above their tracks look like a T, hence the name.

Back in the age of sail, when broadside armaments dominated, this was bad because not only was the victim unable to return fire with the majority of their armament, but the bow and stern planking was generally weaker than the flanks. Once we get to armored & turreted steam ships and later, it's still bad because of the limits on return fire.

In BattleTech, return fire may or may not be limited depending upon the armament layout, although 3 arcs (broadside and both quarters) will typically beat 1 arc, but in either case you're definitely risking some very important potential crits, plus you deny yourself the ability to roll the ship to present a fresh side of armor without otherwise changing your course and firing arcs.

Crossing the T is ideally thus something you want to try to do to your enemy, not do to yourself. Designs that rely upon a strong nose and/or aft armament, with lesser side firepower, are thus playing a risky game.

Interesting. Thanks!
Makes sense as a general rule and also if armor is somewhat limited and could easily be thresholded in ship to ship combat.
Well, I had a thought and threw that thing together quickly.

[ABADDON]

Right, so 2 all around then.

Well, after reducing it to 2 screen launchers all around, and fixing the error I made with Naval C3, I come up with -638 tons.
[/quote

And you really don't want to take that out of the cargo hold?
I mean whether it's 12 thousand a little something or 11 thousand a lot something... who cares?