About Battle Armor and target modifiers...

[JShepard]

So I have an attack modifier question I wanted to ask, as the core book isn't too clear on the issue. Let's say that I have an omni mech, let's say a madcat, carrying some purifier adaptive with MAS and drops them off in short-range of an enemy atlas. When the madcat makes its attack that turn at the atlas, does it suffer the +3 penalty to its shot for carrying infantry like other cargo transports would?
Then let's say the atlas attacks the purifiers that turn, at skill 4 and no cover bonuses and having moved itself, what are its modifiers? Do the purifiers count as having moved (even though they began their movement attached to the madcat and never actually spent any of their movement) and therefore exempt from their MAS bonus? Do they use the madcat's movement modifier, as it was the one carrying them and they technically speaking actually moved as far as it did? Does the atlas suffer any penalties because the purifiers are infantry / battle armor (I've heard some talk on the forums that they get a bonus due to their small size)?
Also, do the purifiers suffer any jump penalties when they attack the same turn they jump?
And let's assume that all movement modifiers are based on actual movement and not tmm.

Please cite page numbers if you can!

[nckestrel]

Hey there, nice example... here we go.

First, there is no +3 attack modifier for cargo transports.  In trying to figure out where that come from, I'm guessing that's based on the line "target transporting battle armor" at the end of the to-hit modifiers table.  That's a sub condition under Anti-'Mech Infantry, and applies only to Anti-'Mech Infantry attacks (where infantry swarm a unit).  If the target of an anti-'mech infantry attack is carrying battle armor, those infantry are going to have a hard time swarming it. 

For TMM, the transport never affects a transported unit's TMM.  TMM is based on movement mode selected.  Note that errata clarified that a transported unit cannot choose to stand still.

Revised: MAS is based on the standstill mode.  You only get the bonus if the unit used the stand still mode.  You cannot use stand still and be transported (see errata).  So you can't get the MAS bonus any turn you were transported.

Battle Armor, when a target of an attack, have a +1 target type modifier (to-hit modifiers table, bottom left column under target type modifiers).

Battle armor (along with conventional infantry) are not affected by movement mode modifiers.  (This was errata, found in the footnote of the to-hit modifiers table for the movement mode modifiers).  So battle armor do not take a to-hit modifier if they jump, or if they stand still.

Most recently compiled errata for AS, that includes transporting, movement modes and to-hit modifiers is found http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=31693.msg737437#msg737437

[GoldBishop]

^  What Nckstrel said.

Infantry is technically moving off their transport under their own power.  Remember that we're not allowed to stack in AlphaStrike - placement is merely a representation of movement off/out a transport... however, since Infantry are not allowed to move the turn they dismount, they may not move beyond base-to-base contact and therefore retain the "0" inches moved.

In my circle, we grant "recently deployed" Infantry their best movement modifier based on mode as a "default" - no one needs to remember to "declare" the different types of movement (if a unit is capable of choice).  This means that, even though the deployed infantry have moved 0", we still give them their TMMs.

In your example, the Purifiers get +2 TMM (1 for 6" potential, 1 for jump) plus their "Size" modifier +1 and the "zero inches moved", would grant them their full +3 from the MAS.  Anyone attempting to attack them (this turn) are at +6 TN...

So that [Skill 4] Atlas?  He needs 10+ to hit the Purifiers at Short Range.
...Might be better off attacking that MadCat ;)

[nckestrel]

scratch that.  I forgot MAS was errated (with the second printing).

MAS only works if you standstill. It's not inches moved.  Since you can't stand still while transported, you can't get the MAS modifier.

[GoldBishop]

scratch that.  I forgot MAS was errated (with the second printing).

MAS only works if you standstill. It's not inches moved.  Since you can't stand still while transported, you can't get the MAS modifier.

Eww... that's just...

I really don't agree with that change.

If the transporting unit doesn't benefit from the Carried unit's *active* abilities (ECM, STL, etc) *while* transporting the unit, how can [the transport's movement] interfere with the Carried Unit's ability to use them once deployed?  Shouldn't a unit's movement be based on the amount it traveled as if under its own power?

**edited for clarity**
[not trying to hijack the thread; just posing the question aloud before I forget]

[nckestrel]

Mechanically, it was done to avoid having to mark down/remember inches moved.  AS doesn't track how far you've moved in a turn (this TMM is available, not actual distance moved).

If you've been transported, then you have moved (you've been moved, but you still moved).  Your MAS doesn't work when you've moved, that's what MAS is.

[JShepard]

Out of curiosity, how many people play with actual movement modifiers as opposed to the printed TMM?

[GoldBishop]

Mechanically, it was done to avoid having to mark down/remember inches moved.  AS doesn't track how far you've moved in a turn (this TMM is available, not actual distance moved).
...

I get that.  I just don't agree with the change (tracking was never that hard, but that's my opinion, and I'll stop myself here).

Out of curiosity, how many people play with actual movement modifiers as opposed to the printed TMM?

None in my corner of the web.  My group agreed unanimously that a given unit's "potential movement" is actually a translation of acceleration and reaction speed.  For us, it doesn't matter how far a unit actually travels... only how fast it can get to where it's going. ;)

[JShepard]

So if the purifiers don't get their bonus from MAS, because they didn't standstill the turn they disembarked, but they get +1 from their TMM and +1 from their size, do they still get their +1 from jump?

[Weirdo]

Only if they actually jumped that turn, which to my knowledge is not something you can do when dismounting a mech or APC.

The moral of the story is: Choose your bus stops with care, because offloading under fire SUCKS. There are exceptions, but nine times out of ten it is best to offload behind cover, and let your troops move into contact under their own power.

[Col.Hengist]

Out of curiosity, how many people play with actual movement modifiers as opposed to the printed TMM?

 The guys down in Salem play that way.