House rules for cluster hits

[Phobos101]

So one thing that has bugged me for a while, is the fact that LRMs, SRMs can have a "low to hit" number for the easiest shot in the world, you roll boxcars and hit, and then duff the cluster roll, only getting one or two missiles on target, even though you were aiming at an immobile barn door, three feet in front of your face. Has anyone come up with a way to make the the result of the cluster roll reflect the difficulty of the shot without breaking the game?

[worktroll]

Not game-breaking, but game-slowing. Add the Margin of Success (MOS) to your missiles-hit roll.

For example, you need to roll 9 to hit with your LRMs, and roll 10. Add 1 (10-9) to your missiles-hit roll.

If you needed 5 to hit, and rolled 11, then add 6 (11-5). Simple, but an extra maths step. I'd do the same for Ultras, but possibly not for LB-Xs (which are cool enough anyway).

Yes, it makes missiles more effective, but LRMs still hit in 5-point lumps. And how often are you firing on 5s to hit? ;)

[Brakiel]

Not game-breaking, but game-slowing. Add the Margin of Success (MOS) to your missiles-hit roll.

For example, you need to roll 9 to hit with your LRMs, and roll 10. Add 1 (10-9) to your missiles-hit roll.

If you needed 5 to hit, and rolled 11, then add 6 (11-5). Simple, but an extra maths step. I'd do the same for Ultras, but possibly not for LB-Xs (which are cool enough anyway).

Yes, it makes missiles more effective, but LRMs still hit in 5-point lumps. And how often are you firing on 5s to hit? ;)

(As an aside, I'm guessing the mods need to move this to Fan Rules.)

I also toyed with MoS, although I feel that margin / 2, rounded down was a bit more fair. It also makes bonuses from things like Artemis and NARC less redundant.

Since you brought up UACs, I've moved them and RACs over to the HAG model, where they get +2/0/-2 to the cluster table at short, medium, and long. Makes them better brawling weapons, while LBXs - which are naturally longer ranged than their brethren - can still snipe.

[Papabees]

I suggested this in another thread:

I like what I'm seeing here. Keep it up. I'd really like to come up with a rule to simplifying missile and cluster hits. Maybe have the number of missile hits be based on the to-hit roll? FREX, an LRM might look like this:

ToHit: 8                   20                       15                        10                    5
Roll              number of missiles
6                             4                         3                          2                      1
7                             8                         6                          4                      2
8                             12                       9                          6                      3
9                             16                       12                        8                      4
10+                         20                       15                        10                    5

If I need an 11 or 12... it's a tough shot so unlikely all the missiles would hit anyway.

[Retry]

Tac Ops has the optional direct/glancing blow rule that does something similar for cluster weapons.

[SummerFox]

I've been working on a version of BT that tries to minimize the number of rolls per unit per turn, without going as far as Alpha Strike. One of the rolls I've been trying to cut is the Cluster Hits roll. The idea that I'm currently toying around with is basing the number of hits entirely on the Margin of Success on the To-Hit roll. I was inspired by a bit of fluff stating that Streak Missiles make some pilots nervous because the targeting system can override a crucial shot just because it can't guarantee a 100% hit rate. I couldn't find this drawback represented anywhere in the rules, so I designed the following.

If the Attack Roll exactly equals the target number, use Row 4 of the Cluster Hits table.

For every point by which the Attack Roll exceeds the target number, move one row down the table.

For every point by which the Attack Roll falls short of the target number, move one row up the table. Note that this means that failing by one or two points still allows a couple of munitions to hit the target.

Weapons which modify the To-Hit number (LB-X) function as normal, and weapons which modify the Cluster Roll (Artemis) modify the Margin of Success on a successful To-Hit Roll. Cluster Weapons which do not roll on the Cluster Hits table (Streak) lose the near-miss window on the Attack Roll, but will always hit with all their munitions regardless of the Margin of Success.

I like this system for several reasons:

1) Cluster Weapons are basically giant shotguns. It should be hard to completely miss, but it should also be damned hard to hit with everything in the salvo.

2) Cluster Weapons become skill weapons. Easier shots can land a higher percentage of the salvo, and vice versa.

3) Removing the Cluster Roll abstracts things slightly and speeds the game up.

4) There is now a very tangible decision to make between Streak and Non-Streak missiles (Near-Miss window or 100% salvo accuracy).

[Papabees]

I've been working on a version of BT that tries to minimize the number of rolls per unit per turn, without going as far as Alpha Strike. One of the rolls I've been trying to cut is the Cluster Hits roll. The idea that I'm currently toying around with is basing the number of hits entirely on the Margin of Success on the To-Hit roll. I was inspired by a bit of fluff stating that Streak Missiles make some pilots nervous because the targeting system can override a crucial shot just because it can't guarantee a 100% hit rate. I couldn't find this drawback represented anywhere in the rules, so I designed the following.

If the Attack Roll exactly equals the target number, use Row 4 of the Cluster Hits table.

For every point by which the Attack Roll exceeds the target number, move one row down the table.

For every point by which the Attack Roll falls short of the target number, move one row up the table. Note that this means that failing by one or two points still allows a couple of munitions to hit the target.

Weapons which modify the To-Hit number (LB-X) function as normal, and weapons which modify the Cluster Roll (Artemis) modify the Margin of Success on a successful To-Hit Roll. Cluster Weapons which do not roll on the Cluster Hits table (Streak) lose the near-miss window on the Attack Roll, but will always hit with all their munitions regardless of the Margin of Success.

I like this system for several reasons:

1) Cluster Weapons are basically giant shotguns. It should be hard to completely miss, but it should also be damned hard to hit with everything in the salvo.

2) Cluster Weapons become skill weapons. Easier shots can land a higher percentage of the salvo, and vice versa.

3) Removing the Cluster Roll abstracts things slightly and speeds the game up.

4) There is now a very tangible decision to make between Streak and Non-Streak missiles (Near-Miss window or 100% salvo accuracy).

I really like this concept but why not start on like row 6. Row 4 makes it impossible to hit with every missile even with an amazing attack roll. Your To Hit would have to be 5 or less to hit with every shell. That seems... off. I realize raising it too high lets the low end almost always do something. Mainly why I came up with my chart above. 

[Sabelkatten]

I haven't tested it, but I did some calculations on rolling 3d6 for cluster weapon to hit rolls with the MoS being the cluster table roll.

Unfortunately I can't find the spreadsheet (computer crash :'( ) but IIRC it did end up pretty close to the expected damage of the standard rules.

[Papabees]

I haven't tested it, but I did some calculations on rolling 3d6 for cluster weapon to hit rolls with the MoS being the cluster table roll.

Unfortunately I can't find the spreadsheet (computer crash :'( ) but IIRC it did end up pretty close to the expected damage of the standard rules.

That's an interesting idea as well. I'll have to test.

[garhkal]

I also toyed with MoS, although I feel that margin / 2, rounded down was a bit more fair. It also makes bonuses from things like Artemis and NARC less redundant.

To ME, that actually is a reason to NOT allow this.  AS it does in effect make those two pieces of tech, redundant. 

[SummerFox]

I really like this concept but why not start on like row 6. Row 4 makes it impossible to hit with every missile even with an amazing attack roll. Your To Hit would have to be 5 or less to hit with every shell. That seems... off. I realize raising it too high lets the low end almost always do something. Mainly why I came up with my chart above.

Good point! Thank you very much for the feedback, that was a great suggestion. That table of yours was my template for this idea, actually. Thank you very much for sharing it with us! The only reason I didn't use your premise was because I wanted to use as much existing material as possible in my rule-set. The less tables I have to design from scratch, the better for my work schedule.  A baseline of 6 is a great idea, I felt like something about my version was too limited. That means the maximum Cluster Hits result is possible with a To-Hit target less than or equal to 7. What do ya'll think of this:

If the attack roll is exactly equal to the target number, use Row 6.

For every point by which the Attack Roll exceeds the target number, move down one row.

For every point by which the Attack Roll falls short of the target number, move two rows up. Note that this means that failing by one or two points will still allow a small number of munitions to hit their target.

Now, it has a more reasonable baseline, a less punishing distance to the upper end, and increased granularity on low accuracy hits.

[Brakiel]

To ME, that actually is a reason to NOT allow this.  AS it does in effect make those two pieces of tech, redundant.

That's why I went with MoS/2, rounded down. Most of the time, you're only getting a really minimal benefit, like a +0 or +1 for your typical successful hit against a mobile target. You'd need to start stacking some really impressive hit mods to start getting +2 or higher regularly, like elite pilots firing at point blank range against an immobile target.

[Alsadius]

To ME, that actually is a reason to NOT allow this.  AS it does in effect make those two pieces of tech, redundant.

How so? +2 on the cluster hits table is +2 on the cluster hits table - if anything, this makes them better in most cases, because they improve your damage on near-misses as well. They're worse on the gimmie shots against shut-down enemies,because under this house rule you'll probably already get max damage, whereas under vanilla rules you're still rolling on the CHT like normal. But for most rolls, I think Artemis is actually better under this system.

[Phobos101]

Thank you for all the ideas. My plan is to chug through a few of them  one at a time and see what works. I had a game a few days ago using raw MOS added to cluster roll, and it worked quite well, however this was with no Narc or other missile toys. The cluster results were pushed to max often enough that maybe if this extra tech were in play it would feel a little redundant. Next stop will either be capped MOS, or half MOS. It might be a while before my next game, but I’ll keep you posted!

[BlackLiger]

Mos/2, +2 at short range, -2 @ long range, all ams is the kind that can cover other units.