Author Topic: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?  (Read 1368 times)

beachhead1985

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Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« on: 14 September 2019, 09:08:50 »
I am sure these exist, but I cannot find them in the core books.

I am looking for things like the generic "Fill in the extra space" "Sensors" found on some of the old 3026 designs like the original Pegasus.

I know that "Communications equipment" was kinda rolled into mobile HQs for some things, but does it do anything else? Boost range? Improve TNs to beat jamming?

I have ideas for my own games, but wanted to stick to canon, if possible.
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nckestrel

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #2 on: 14 September 2019, 10:56:01 »
I think TacOps has some rules about among satellite uplinks, possibly calling in artillery, that can be affected by the extra tonnage communication equipment and mobile headquarters.
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dgorsman

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #3 on: 14 September 2019, 11:05:42 »
Pretty much every tactical use is in TacOps.  There's a few mentions in StratOps, regarding how those translate to BattleForce play.
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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #4 on: 14 September 2019, 11:46:39 »
Yeah, you want to go into TacOps and just do a search for Communications Equipment. Read every section that comes up.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #5 on: 14 September 2019, 16:23:45 »
Thanks, guys.

But what I'm looking for and half-remember is something more like;

Standard Communications/TTS give a range of X

Additional equipment modifies this to Y

When rolling against jamming; X + Y from additonal equipment.

Was that in the the old Double-Blind rules? See, i thought we ported those to the new books and that's what I've been searching for.
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dgorsman

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #6 on: 14 September 2019, 16:30:43 »
Sounds like the TacOps double blind rules.  The generic "sensor equipment" in the really old stuff would be treated as either communications equipment or improved sensors.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #7 on: 14 September 2019, 18:27:42 »
Sounds like the TacOps double blind rules.  The generic "sensor equipment" in the really old stuff would be treated as either communications equipment or improved sensors.

But the improved sensors quirk is pretty powerful; counts as an active probe, no?

I have no idea what I was thinking of. I looked at that stuff and kept thinking it was something else. Sorry guys.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

RifleMech

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #8 on: 14 September 2019, 21:28:51 »
The equipment Com Equipment is found in TechManual. The rules for it are in TacOps.   Basically each ton lets you monitor an additional remote sensor. Three tons or more gives it some ECM suite abilities. You also get a,Mobile HQ abilities with seven tons or more. There might some double blind rules but.I don't remember.

The improved communications quirk keeps ECM from jamming com's.

Unfortunately there is no Sensor Equipment. It can be house rules easily enough but there's no legal rules for it.  There is the Improved Sensors quirk though. It acts as a two hex active probe or adds two hexes to a probe.

AdmiralObvious

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #9 on: 14 September 2019, 22:16:02 »
Are we sure we arent referring to the generic version of sensors, which basically every unit has? That would be covered under the Double Blind rules in general.

RifleMech

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #10 on: 14 September 2019, 22:53:45 »
No. The old TROs had additional sensors listed among their equipment.  They were retconned out along with fractions.

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #11 on: 14 September 2019, 23:06:25 »
from the ferret entry in tro 3026 vs 3026r vs 3039



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beachhead1985

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #12 on: 14 September 2019, 23:54:26 »
No. The old TROs had additional sensors listed among their equipment.  They were retconned out along with fractions.

Yeah; that's the stuff I was thinking about.

The improved comms quirk basically works for the comms equipment.

I *CAN* house-rule something for the sensors, but I wanted to stick to canon, if possible.

The issue is this; I *LOVE* fractional accounting. It's just that little pinch of granularity that gives BT's oddly neat and pretty tonnage-limits a more realistic edge. So what to fill the extra space with? On many of my designs I go with cargo; who cant use a little bit more cargo? But on some I have something minor like; 0.23 tons of Sensors or Comms gear.

In my head I had sworn that you took Piloting rolls to break out of jamming or break encryption; I never used it, but as an optional rule, it felt right. I pictured a range in map sheets listed somewhere for bog-standard communications systems and I figured; okay: So the extra comms gear outside of an even ton gives you a  *bit* more range and a -1 on those ECM/Crypto checks? I had over-looked the improved comms *quirk*.

I pictured something similar to the double-blind rules for sensors; a little more range (as shown), a -1 on checks that still kept them well-inferior to active probes (how does improved sensors work with an AP mounted?) and something like a free searchlight quirk without the *HIT ME!* drawback of a real searchlight.

But in reviewing the rules; active probes aren't a roll; they just *work* under given conditions.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Daryk

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #13 on: 15 September 2019, 05:45:08 »
Interesting discussion, but Fan Rules belong down on the Fan Rules board.

RifleMech

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #14 on: 15 September 2019, 08:45:33 »
Yeah; that's the stuff I was thinking about.

The improved comms quirk basically works for the comms equipment.

I *CAN* house-rule something for the sensors, but I wanted to stick to canon, if possible.

The issue is this; I *LOVE* fractional accounting. It's just that little pinch of granularity that gives BT's oddly neat and pretty tonnage-limits a more realistic edge. So what to fill the extra space with? On many of my designs I go with cargo; who cant use a little bit more cargo? But on some I have something minor like; 0.23 tons of Sensors or Comms gear.

In my head I had sworn that you took Piloting rolls to break out of jamming or break encryption; I never used it, but as an optional rule, it felt right. I pictured a range in map sheets listed somewhere for bog-standard communications systems and I figured; okay: So the extra comms gear outside of an even ton gives you a  *bit* more range and a -1 on those ECM/Crypto checks? I had over-looked the improved comms *quirk*.

I pictured something similar to the double-blind rules for sensors; a little more range (as shown), a -1 on checks that still kept them well-inferior to active probes (how does improved sensors work with an AP mounted?) and something like a free searchlight quirk without the *HIT ME!* drawback of a real searchlight.

But in reviewing the rules; active probes aren't a roll; they just *work* under given conditions.

Well Com Equipment does do things that the Quirk can't so I wouldn't just discount them.

Which is why I didn't post my house rules for them. I do wish that there were canon sensor systems though.

I minded the fractional accounting in the old TROs. In fact I prefer some of them over the retconned ones. One of the few things that can be fractional is cargo.

For double blind rules, you need at least 3 tons and it looks like it can make it easier to detect units.

Yes. Probes just work but they do extend the range you can detect things so that's a plus.

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Re: Generic Sensor/Communications equipment rules?
« Reply #15 on: 15 September 2019, 12:06:28 »
Fractional accounting made all kinds of things better (the Warrior VTOL comes immediately to mind).

Also, don't forget that all Combat Vehicles (and 'mechs, among other things) get the equivalent of 1 ton of Communications Equipment free with their control (or cockpit) tonnage.  So really only need to install two tons to get to the magic three. Tech Manual, page 212, refers.

 

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