Author Topic: Something else Cannonshop asked for  (Read 610 times)

monbvol

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Something else Cannonshop asked for
« on: 03 November 2023, 20:48:47 »
MegaMekLab doesn't really do Primitive Jumpships/Warships so I do feel like this came out far too capable for what Cannonshop was asking for.  He also wanted 'one shot' Capital Missile Launchers.

So I'm going with this is what they would have liked to do with the resources on hand.  Maybe unify the weapons battery a bit more but that's something that would come with time.  Also largely based off the Merchant Class Jumpship.

Sampan Production Block I
Mass: 120,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 2780
Mass: 120,000
Battle Value: 7,930
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-F
Cost: 5,595,954,000 C-bills

Fuel: 4,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 1
Maximum Thrust: 2
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 5
Heat Sinks: 750
Structural Integrity: 60

Armor
    Nose: 18
    Fore Sides: 19/19
    Aft Sides: 19/19
    Aft: 17

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             3 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Infantry (Foot) (5)     1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (27690.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    800 rounds of AC/10 ammunition (80 tons),
    50 rounds of White Shark ammunition (2,000 tons),
    3,200 rounds of Machine Gun ammunition (16 tons),
    10 rounds of Santa Anna ammunition (400 tons),
    480 rounds of LRM 20 ammunition (80 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 1 (40 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  20 officers, 50 enlisted/non-rated, 30 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 24 passengers      

Notes: Mounts 144 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (40 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
4 PPC                                     40   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         
FRS/FLS (106 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
4 AC/10                                   12   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)     0(0)   AC         
    AC/10 Ammo (200 shots)
1 Naval Laser 45                          70   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)    5(45)   Capital Laser
4 LRM 20                                  24   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (120 shots)
RBS/LBS (15 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)  15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    3(30)   Capital Missile
    Santa Anna Ammo (5 shots)
    White Shark Ammo (25 shots)
ARS/ALS (106 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
4 AC/10                                   12   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)     0(0)   AC         
    AC/10 Ammo (200 shots)
1 Naval Laser 45                          70   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)    5(45)   Capital Laser
4 LRM 20                                  24   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (120 shots)
Aft (40 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
6 Machine Gun                              0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200 shots)
4 PPC                                     40   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         

Cannonshop

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #1 on: 03 November 2023, 21:00:57 »
Thematically, it's basically a jumpship, with a lot of structural reinforcement, that someone welded external launch rails on. The missiles have to be manually re-loaded after each firing,  but you've got a bunch of them sitting on those launch rails, presumably, when you go into a fight...which won't last long if the other guy as a real warship.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

monbvol

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #2 on: 03 November 2023, 21:14:28 »
So the above is most definately a 'if we could have we would have' pie in the sky idea.

Best I can do for a modified Merchant is this:

Merchant Jumpship KCGS Skip
Mass: 120,000 tons
Technology Base: Clan (Advanced)
Introduced: 2901
Mass: 120,000
Battle Value: 558
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-F
Cost: 535,131,675 C-bills

Fuel: 85 tons (425)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 99
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 4
    Fore Sides: 5/5
    Aft Sides: 4/4
    Aft: 4

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (303.0 tons)      1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (2)             2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Infantry (Foot) (5)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,800 rounds of Half Machine Gun ammunition (3 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 1 (40 m)
Escape Pods: 4
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  4 officers, 18 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 39 bay personnel      

Notes: Mounts 26 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                               Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                         Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (0 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                       0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Half Machine Gun Ammo (300 shots)
FRS/FLS (0 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                       0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Half Machine Gun Ammo (300 shots)
ARS/ALS (0 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                       0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Half Machine Gun Ammo (300 shots)
Aft (0 Heat)
6 Machine Gun                       0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Half Machine Gun Ammo (300 shots)


I figure the rails are basically rounding errors and the magazines are actually largely on the attached Dropships because there just ain't much cargo there.

Daryk

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #3 on: 04 November 2023, 04:09:00 »
Hmmm... yeah, on a Merchant like that, you're getting 7 missiles max, which I think is reasonable.

idea weenie

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #4 on: 05 November 2023, 01:26:26 »
Thematically, it's basically a jumpship, with a lot of structural reinforcement, that someone welded external launch rails on. The missiles have to be manually re-loaded after each firing,  but you've got a bunch of them sitting on those launch rails, presumably, when you go into a fight...which won't last long if the other guy as a real warship.

Hope the jump field encompasses the rails, otherwise you might arrive with half a missile on each rail.

Perhaps designing a 'Dropship' that is little more than four one-shot Capital missile launchers and attach those to the Dropship Docking Collars?  That would let this Merchant have an 8-missile 'broadside'.

A single Killer Whale launcher is 150 tons, a single Killer Whale missile is 50 tons, the package is 200 tons, and 4 of them mass 800 tons.  A modified Leopard could fit up to 6 of those launchers in it, unless special long-range sensors are needed.

Cannonshop

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #5 on: 05 November 2023, 12:04:41 »
Hope the jump field encompasses the rails, otherwise you might arrive with half a missile on each rail.

Perhaps designing a 'Dropship' that is little more than four one-shot Capital missile launchers and attach those to the Dropship Docking Collars?  That would let this Merchant have an 8-missile 'broadside'.

A single Killer Whale launcher is 150 tons, a single Killer Whale missile is 50 tons, the package is 200 tons, and 4 of them mass 800 tons.  A modified Leopard could fit up to 6 of those launchers in it, unless special long-range sensors are needed.

Generally speaking, if you're jumping with rounds on the rails, something has gone horribly wrong and you're probably going to die.  This isn't a really USEFUL arrangement, it's an AMBUSH arrangement-you jump in, deck crew unships the missile cans onto the rails, wait for someone to get greedy/frisky/spot you, and engage them...or sneak up and engage them because they're not expecting you to show up with THAT kind of firepower.

As for dropships, I reckon that Phil Cartwright probably would've chosen something like a Furey or buccaneer (more likely a Bucc, since those aren't exactly famed for their space engagements and they ARE on the loose open market as civilian vessels, unlike Leopards that are dedicated military transports).


"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

idea weenie

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Re: Something else Cannonshop asked for
« Reply #6 on: 05 November 2023, 13:02:32 »
Generally speaking, if you're jumping with rounds on the rails, something has gone horribly wrong and you're probably going to die.  This isn't a really USEFUL arrangement, it's an AMBUSH arrangement-you jump in, deck crew unships the missile cans onto the rails, wait for someone to get greedy/frisky/spot you, and engage them...or sneak up and engage them because they're not expecting you to show up with THAT kind of firepower.

As for dropships, I reckon that Phil Cartwright probably would've chosen something like a Furey or buccaneer (more likely a Bucc, since those aren't exactly famed for their space engagements and they ARE on the loose open market as civilian vessels, unlike Leopards that are dedicated military transports).

For monbvol's modified Merchant above, it looks like the missiles would have to be stored in the attached Dropships, and transferred out after arrival.  The Buccaneer as you mentioned would be a good design, as it is a very good cargo carrier.  The 303 tons of cargo for the modified Merchant would only allow up to 6 Killer Whale missiles, and that is only if you use all but 3 tons of cargo.

I see a mission going something like this:
1) The Buccaneers would attach to the Merchant
2) The Merchant would jump
3) The Buccaneers would toss out a few missiles to float in space
4a) The Buccaneers would head in-system as honest traders
4b) The Merchant's crew would attach the missiles to the launch rails, and either wait for pirates to approach or try to creep in close to a pirate

The main problem I can see is that you are putting your very vulnerable Jumpship potentially into weapons range of a pirate vessel.  There will be nuclear warheads in the Killer Whales, but the Merchant is still an egg shell that can be cracked by a Medium Laser everywhere except the Fore Sides.  The Merchant has to strike first, and the Captain has to be certain of the target once you start tossing nuclear warheads near rare/valuable Jumpships.

Combat Dropships might not be as strategically flexible as a Jumpship, but they are far more expendable and capable.  In this case I'd be tempted to use the Buccaneers to drop off Killer Whale-T missiles while closing, then tell a pirate to either surrender or the ship far outside their weapons range will activate the missiles.  If the pirates try to fight the Buccaneer's crew (either with their Dropship's weapons or their personal weapons once the Marines on board), they will get nuked.

 

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