Remote Weapon Stations (RWS)

[MechWarriorFox]

This would actually be viable if the rules are added. You'll probably only have three of them on a 'Mech or vehicle but they would be a welcome sense of realism.
Like so:

Yes, it's a GDI Titan mech, but the idea is the same.  ;)

The only way we can replicate this is via torso cockpits and head turrets or two shoulder turrets.

This would allow you to make Infantry even more effective while not making them OP. Sacrifice some ammo and/or armor and boom, you've got more anti-infantry capability. You could -perhaps- also make an AMS variant called the 'dual-purpose' AMS, which can pull double duty in this sort of situation for higher ammo consumption/heat.

[Daryk]

I think AMS is too integrated to be installed via a RWS.  It really requires the sensor part to make it work...

[MechWarriorFox]

I think AMS is too integrated to be installed via a RWS.  It really requires the sensor part to make it work...

No, I was thinking of a 'Dual-Purpose' AMS system, like Dual-Purpose naval rifles. Essentially the 'DPAMS' can target incoming missiles and infantry and only them. It would also be used as part of the explanation why the Clans don't like bog-standard infantry all that well.

[Daryk]

I vaguely remember a rule somewhere for using AMS against infantry...  BattleTech: "There's a rule for that..."  :D

[MechWarriorFox]

I vaguely remember a rule somewhere for using AMS against infantry...  BattleTech: "There's a rule for that..."  :D

If there is, then man BattleTech is crazy...

[Daryk]

Yep... TacOps, page 100:

Used As a Weapon
Though designed as a defensive measure, the standard antimissile
system is a kind of specialized machine gun and can be
used as an offensive weapon in a pinch. An AMS used as a weapon
functions exactly like a machine gun, except that it has a range
of 1; it cannot reach targets at medium or long range (or more).
A laser AMS used as a weapon acts like a micro pulse laser with a
maximum range of 1.

[MechWarriorFox]

Yep... TacOps, page 100:

Wow... so how would making an 'Anti-Infantry System' work, given that this is what an RWS essentially is?

[Daryk]

RWS's are more than just anti-infantry, and if you look at the variety of infantry support weapons, you can make some interesting combinations.

[MechWarriorFox]

RWS's are more than just anti-infantry, and if you look at the variety of infantry support weapons, you can make some interesting combinations.

True, but we're looking through the lens that is Battletech Rules and given that there is a -or several- 'holy cow' that much of the fandom will not sacrifice... we can only do so much. Although I'll admit, if we go with the AIS idea, we might work out something for RWS later...

[Daryk]

AIS? You mean, AMS, right?  ???

[MechWarriorFox]

AIS? You mean, AMS, right?  ???

We use AMS to create AIS, if that makes sense.

[Daryk]

Ah, I see what you mean now... thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

[MechWarriorFox]

Ah, I see what you mean now... thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

It happens, especially when the idea evades understanding without context. :beer:

[Daryk]

The advantage I'm still giving RWS over AMS/AIS though, is the ability to fire at 0-hex range.  AMS still can't do that...

[MechWarriorFox]

The advantage I'm still giving RWS over AMS/AIS though, is the ability to fire at 0-hex range.  AMS still can't do that...

I would think that AIS would be given a penalty at 0-hex range, a roll modifier of -1 or something like that...

[Daryk]

That would be the most logical way to do it.

[MechWarriorFox]

That would be the most logical way to do it.

Hm, let me work on some stats and we'll see what it can do...

[Daryk]

Cool... I'll look for your post...  :thumbsup:

[MechWarriorFox]

Cool... I'll look for your post...  :thumbsup:

Ok, here's prototype 1 (based off of AMS systems for ease of prototyping):

Variants:

• Standard Machinegun, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.25 ton and 1 slot per unit, ammo is 50 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Heavy Machinegun, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.5 ton and 1 slot per unit, ammo is 25 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Laser, 1 heat (clan)/3 heat (IS) per anti-infantry attack, 1 ton (clan)/1.5 ton (IS) and 1 slot per unit, max range is 3-hexes
• Grenade, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.5 ton and 1 slot per unit, standard ammo gives +2 to anti-infantry rolls, ammo is 20 shots/ton, max range is 1-hex
• Gyrojet, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.25 ton and 1 slot per unit, standard ammo gives +1 to anti-infantry rolls, ammo is 25 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Anti-Infantry Rocket System, 3 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 1 ton and 2 slots per unit, ammo is 10 shots/ton standard, max range is 4-hexes, -1 to accuracy and +2 to anti-infantry rolls

History Blurb:
The Anti-Infantry System (AIS) is a weapon system designed for one purpose: killing infantry. The basic idea of an automated anti-infantry weapon system has been used in one way or another for centuries, but they were more ad-hoc systems than anything before the advent of modern Remote Weapon Stations in [insert year here]. While the Anti-Infantry System isn't as modular as the RWS, it is less maintenance intensive and easier to mount as it can utilize AMS mounts.

Unlike their AMS cousins (which disappeared after the first two Succession Wars), AIS systems only faced a decrease in supply as it utilized more common components and sensor systems. It is common during the period before the rediscovery of the AMS to have AIS units replacing AMS units.

Basic Rules:

Each Anti-Infantry System (AIS) can target up to 3 infantry squads per turn and can not target non-infantry/BA units. If targeting infantry/BA at a range of 0-hexes, then add a -1 roll malice to your anti-infantry and accuracy rolls.

Battletech (Video Game) Rules:

Infantry is the only acceptable targets for an AIS system, vehicles and battlemechs will not be acceptable targets. AIS uses the AMS hardpoint. Any infantry attacking at point-blank/melee range will gain an evasion bonus against AIS systems

So, that should work for a prototype...

[Daryk]

Hmmm... the "target 3 squads" thing could be problematic, as that effectively triples the fire rate.

[MechWarriorFox]

Hmmm... the "target 3 squads" thing could be problematic, as that effectively triples the fire rate.

That should is countered by the heat and ammo costs per system. For every burst, you have to have to pay heat and ammo (when applicable). So in this case, you'll spend 3 ammo and 3 heat per maxed salvo for the MG AIS, up to 9 heat for the Laser AIS, or 9 heat and 3 shots per Anti-Infantry Rocket salvo. Given that at most you'll have a handful of AIS systems and MAYBE 2 or 3 ammo bins...

[Maingunnery]

Would an AIS automatically engage hostile infantry?

[MechWarriorFox]

Would an AIS automatically engage hostile infantry?

It can if you want it to act like pre-rework AMS. Personally I believe being able to pick and choose infantry within range is better than letting it shoot willy nilly. Then again there is a balance to look into...

[Daryk]

The issue is that platoons are made up of multiple squads... I think "units" might be better phrasing...

[MechWarriorFox]

The issue is that platoons are made up of multiple squads... I think "units" might be better phrasing...

True, but I don't want it to be rules lawyered into being platoons. I've met some of those folks when I was doing forum quests a long time ago... and they're annoying to deal with.

[Daryk]

Leaving it at squads will pretty much ensure they're used to simply annihilate platoons.  That many d6s will pretty much always get to 28...

[MechWarriorFox]

Leaving it at squads will pretty much ensure they're used to simply annihilate platoons.  That many d6s will pretty much always get to 28...

True enough, then again that is why we're prototyping.  :thumbsup:

[MechWarriorFox]

Prototype 2:

Variants:

• Standard Machinegun, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.25 ton and 1 slot per unit, ammo is 50 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Heavy Machinegun, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.5 ton and 1 slot per unit, ammo is 25 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Laser, 1 heat (clan)/3 heat (IS) per anti-infantry attack, 1 ton (clan)/1.5 ton (IS) and 1 slot per unit, max range is 3-hexes
• Grenade, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.5 ton and 1 slot per unit, standard ammo gives +2 to anti-infantry rolls, ammo is 20 shots/ton, max range is 1-hex
• Gyrojet, 1 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 0.25 ton and 1 slot per unit, standard ammo gives +1 to anti-infantry rolls, ammo is 25 shots/ton, max range is 2-hexes
• Anti-Infantry Rocket System, 3 heat and 1 shot per anti-infantry attack, 1 ton and 2 slots per unit, ammo is 10 shots/ton standard, max range is 4-hexes, -1 to accuracy and +2 to anti-infantry rolls

History Blurb:
The Anti-Infantry System (AIS) is a weapon system designed for one purpose: killing infantry. The basic idea of an automated anti-infantry weapon system has been used in one way or another for centuries, but they were more ad-hoc systems than anything before the advent of modern Remote Weapon Stations in [insert year here]. While the Anti-Infantry System isn't as modular as the RWS, it is less maintenance intensive and easier to mount as it can utilize AMS mounts.

Unlike their AMS cousins (which disappeared after the first two Succession Wars), AIS systems only faced a decrease in supply as it utilized more common components and sensor systems. It is common during the period before the rediscovery of the AMS to have AIS units replacing AMS units.

Basic Rules:

Each Anti-Infantry System (AIS) can target up to 3 infantry units per turn and can not target non-infantry/BA units. If targeting infantry/BA at a range of 0-hexes, then add a -1 roll malice to your anti-infantry and accuracy rolls.

Battletech (Video Game) Rules:

Infantry is the only acceptable targets for an AIS system, vehicles and battlemechs will not be acceptable targets. AIS uses the AMS hardpoint. Any infantry attacking at point-blank/melee range will gain an evasion bonus against AIS systems

____________________
... and here is the prototype for DPAMS:

A variant of the Anti-Missile System, the 'Dual Purpose' Anti-Missile System is designed to minimize weapon clutter on all vehicles. The key aspect of this system is in the programming of the AMS, which allows the DPAMS to switch from anti-infantry and anti-missile modes of operation. However, this must be manually done in combat and the DPAMS can not fire upon infantry in Anti-Missile mode and vice versa. In anti-infantry mode, the DPAMS can only strike in the adjacent hex and only the adjacent hex but in this mode, the DPAMS gains a +1 to anti-infantry attacks. In anti-missile mode, treat the DPAMS as an AMS without the ability to be an impromptu machinegun.

All heat, ammo, weight, and critical stats are the same as their AMS cousins.

So, is it practical?

[Daryk]

I think you've got the dual-purpose thing nailed.  For the other, it looks like you have an opportunity to differentiate a bit more by assigning 1d6, 2d6 or 3d6 for damage.  I'd be inclined to make the 0.25 units only 1d6, for example.

[MechWarriorFox]

I think you've got the dual-purpose thing nailed.  For the other, it looks like you have an opportunity to differentiate a bit more by assigning 1d6, 2d6 or 3d6 for damage.  I'd be inclined to make the 0.25 units only 1d6, for example.

That's why I'm prototyping, mate. Tinker with things until they work. ;)

I had to get the basic bits right first before I go tinker with them to give them their own 'style'.

Although if CGL uses either or both ideas, I would be surprised and happy.