Author Topic: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?  (Read 14180 times)

Ogra_Chief

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #60 on: 02 December 2019, 14:20:00 »
If you can ride that heat curve, it's a killer. But, it's sooo hard not to hit the "red" Alpha-button every time it's in range of anything. I lose more Chameleon's to my greed than to the enemy, or 'because of'. It's supposed to be a common mech, but just don't see them represented, even though it's a Classic.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #61 on: 02 December 2019, 15:04:56 »
Well, the trainer version has even less armor . . . I want to say I mashed the button and had to make a heat/ammo roll once . . . after that, I lost enough lasers not to have to worry much.
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Kovax

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #62 on: 02 December 2019, 16:32:41 »
I'm partial to the PXH-1K.  While it's not a jumper (6/9), it gets rid of the head armor problem, and is a rather solid infighter with enough speed to put those lasers where they hurt the most.  I've also run the regular PXH-1 in several campaigns, and the head armor problem is "usually" not a problem....unless the dice have it in for you that day.

A Whitworth is a bit uncommon, and tends to get badmouthed a lot, but makes an excellent fire support design with enough short-range firepower (3 Medium Lasers) to defend itself WHEN things go wrong.  It's practically the definition of a "bracket firer" design, where you fire either the long-range weapons or the short-range, but not both.  You generally don't want to use it as a brawler because it's a bit too light for that, but it's CHEAP, and much more survivable than a VLK if things do get up close and personal.  A VLK only has half of the long-ranged firepower, plus one measly Medium Laser to defend itself, and can be seriously threatened by a 20 tonner moving 6/9/6 or 8/12.  A Whitworth may be slow at 4/6/4, but the jump jets partially make up for that.

On the low end, the Locust has always been a favorite, generally surviving FAR more abuse than one would expect from a 20 tonner.  Again, it's speed allows it to evade most inbound fire and put its own (limited) firepower where it does the most good (for you, not for the poor slob on the receiving end).

Rather than a HBK, which traditionally is the perfect target for any self-respecting back-stabber (a single Medium Laser hit to the rear torso can kill it, or take out its main weapon), I'd try to put the cash aside for a Thunderbolt.  The venerable TDR is a true workhorse, able to fill most battlefield roles other than recon (unless you're playing a House Steiner force, where anything under 100 tons is considered "light").  It also carries almost as much armor as an 85 ton Battlemaster, and nearly the same firepower.

I love the Marauder, but it's a bit trickier to run than a lot of 'Mechs.  Granted, it has its niche, but I'd be extremely hesitant to buy one on limited starting funds as a mercenary.

Daryk

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #63 on: 02 December 2019, 17:54:39 »
Eridani T-Bolts jump, so they COULD work as recon...  8)

Scraphound

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #64 on: 02 December 2019, 17:57:20 »
I mostly want the Marauder for the rule of cool.  Robotech introduced me to the world of giant mecha bashing each other to bits long ago. 

That said, I'm now leaning toward the Thunderbolt if only because it's included in the box. 

So I've noticed the Locust get mentioned quite a bit.  In my PC gaming experience the Locust is usually a deathtrap for the Mechwarriors you don't much like.

Is it better in tabletop?   Being a sucker for chicken walkers, I actually like the aesthetic.  I may go with Thunderbolt, Wolverine, Locust, and Catapult.  With the Catapult being replaced by a Dervish once I'm able to find a model I like. 
« Last Edit: 02 December 2019, 18:32:50 by Scraphound »

SteelRaven

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #65 on: 02 December 2019, 18:26:39 »
The Locust is fast enough to find trouble in a hurry so if your like me, the Locust is the first thing getting shot at. With no Jump Jets, you need to make sure running in AND running out is a option. Luckily, the Locust is still fast enough to rack up those movement modifiers so it's harder to hit when you find the enemy first. The PC game seems to give LRM a better to hit ratio than the table top so those LRM turrets punish light mechs
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Scraphound

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #66 on: 02 December 2019, 18:41:14 »
It comes with a medium laser and two MGs, right?

Is that enough to really do much of anything?

Colt Ward

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #67 on: 02 December 2019, 19:09:22 »
Well, its a scout . . . so its not really supposed to shoot much.  If you want it, you need to be sure to play games that are not just 'Last Man Standing' so that it has a purpose when you put it on the table- like 'escape with the spy' aka capture the flag.
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Daryk

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #68 on: 02 December 2019, 19:23:18 »
For a mission like that, you'll really want hands... Fortunately, the Mongoose has them...

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #69 on: 02 December 2019, 19:38:40 »
I had the jumping cicada with the ERLL and BAP in a campaign. It accomplished more mission objectives than any other unit in my force and rarely took or dealt damage

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Daryk

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #70 on: 02 December 2019, 19:41:58 »
Then it sounds like he needs the Spider for his purposes...

Ruger

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #71 on: 02 December 2019, 20:26:46 »
It comes with a medium laser and two MGs, right?

Is that enough to really do much of anything?

The 1V, yes.

The 1S has a medium laser, 2 SRM-2’s with a ton of ammo.

The 1M has a medium laser and 2 LRM-5’s with a ton of ammo.

The 3V has two medium lasers, and 2 MG’s with a half ton ammo.

The 1E has two medium lasers and 2 small lasers.

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Daryk

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #72 on: 02 December 2019, 20:28:39 »
Everything but the 1E sacrifices armor for the extra weapon tonnage (some more than others... looking at the 1M here...).

Ogra_Chief

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #73 on: 02 December 2019, 20:35:14 »
It comes with a medium laser and two MGs, right?

Is that enough to really do much of anything?

Short answer, no.

A Light mech "needs" something else to do, other than fighting. If it's fighting, it's dying. This gets worse as tech levels increase or w/ elite pilots on the table. The Locust is mentioned a lot, because it has the most armor for it's class/size, and thus more survivable. Most 20 tonners are fillers in TT and Lore, and that's it. There are exceptions, but they involve higher tech levels, elite pilots, scenarios, game agreements (reads - shenanigan's), etc. So, if your relying on a Light to deliver victory, get used to defeat. However, it is really satisfying to kill something with a Light.  :)
« Last Edit: 02 December 2019, 20:37:08 by Ogra_Chief »
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Harmony Gold no longer has any say in our decisions, however, the original mechs have been redesigned enough to not cause problems.

Colt Ward

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #74 on: 02 December 2019, 22:38:58 »
Short answer, no.

A Light mech "needs" something else to do, other than fighting. If it's fighting, it's dying. This gets worse as tech levels increase or w/ elite pilots on the table. The Locust is mentioned a lot, because it has the most armor for it's class/size, and thus more survivable. Most 20 tonners are fillers in TT and Lore, and that's it. There are exceptions, but they involve higher tech levels, elite pilots, scenarios, game agreements (reads - shenanigan's), etc. So, if your relying on a Light to deliver victory, get used to defeat. However, it is really satisfying to kill something with a Light.  :)

A light is not supposed to stand and deliver against anything but PBIs.  My light wins campaign battles for my group . . . why?  Because I got something that was not exactly built to fight.  When the 4/6 heavies everyone else wanted get bogged down fighting the enemy line, my light is bypassing the line to go get the mission objectives- with its Blizzard APC & GDL Stds on its heals.  But its managed to do some key damage and harass enemy heavies/assaults to allow my line time to get into position.
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wanderer25

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #75 on: 02 December 2019, 23:09:58 »


  The most common  mechs available to mercs are going to be the original 16/unseen. They're the ones with the most house variants. All are still in
production somewhere to a greater or lesser degree making new mechs/parts more  available thus cutting down attrition rates.

Your a small time merc in 3050, odds are you have older level 1 machines with a few new weapons/systems swapped in over time.


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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #76 on: 02 December 2019, 23:12:24 »
More offensive minded mechs are a little heavier and a little slower (Panther and Wolfhound) 20 ton bugs are one step above infantry with speed being the #1 weapon when spotting for bigger guns, that being LRMs or Arty. I like the Locust as it has more armor than the Stinger and Wasp but I usually field heavier mechs as well.
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RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #77 on: 03 December 2019, 03:54:00 »
The Locust does have good armor for a bug mech. It's almost maxed out for its size. That and its speed help keep it alive.

It's also cheap, easy to find. Pretty much every force that uses mechs uses Locusts. The Locust is also built in every realm. There's like 12 factories turning them out so they and parts are plenticul. In fact there's so many that a There's so many scrapped Locusts that many of them get made into new design such as the Koto. House Davion also experimented with a PPC version but there's no stats for it. Not that it was a success but it shows they're plentiful enough to experiment with. I can easily see all the Houses using Locusts to test out Prototype Tech.   

The Locust is also fast. I think it's the most common mech to move at it's speed by 3050. There are others as fast and even more maneuverable but they're more rare and mostly found in one or two Houses.

As far as weapons go the 1E is probably the most well armed of the Succession War Locusts. It does build up more heat but that shouldn't be too much of a concern, most of the time. The others also build up more heat, but more importantly have less armor. The 1V though with it's machine guns is good at anti-infantry duties. So it can be used as a scout or kept closer to keep the pesky infantry away from the slower larger units.

Kilderkin

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #78 on: 03 December 2019, 04:50:33 »
Most common mechs for Mercs in the succession wars. Weighted more towards lights and mediums.

Lights:
Stinger
Wasp
Locust
Valkyrie

Mediums:
Phoenix Hawk
Shadow Hawk
Wolverine
Griffin

Heavies:
Crusader
Thunderbolt

Assaults:
Stalker

Maybe the odd rare machine to jazz it up a bit.

RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #79 on: 03 December 2019, 05:23:35 »
I would swap the Firestarter for the Valkyrie. It was mass produced and wide spread. Half it's original production run is still in operation and it has plenty of parts. The Firestarter has a half ton less armor but is also faster at 6/9/6. The Firestarter doesn't have the long range firepower the Valkyrie has but it's better at close range and against infantry. Plus it can start fires which has an advantage of its own.


I'd also add Archer to that list. It's wide spread and still has good production with 6 factories producing it. 

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #80 on: 03 December 2019, 09:01:10 »

One I didn't see a lot in this list is the Javelin.  6/9/6 good armor, yeah it's missiles so more of an ammo cost, but it has something that can be very useful in a lot of small-unit situations.

Two hands.

Useful or building/lifting things and carrying away objective items or salvage.
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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #81 on: 03 December 2019, 11:32:47 »
The firepower on a Locust is "enough" for its role.  You don't use it in a stand-up fight head-to-head, you either take on support vehicles, backstab enemy 'Mechs while they're engaging your brawlers (so they're NOT shooting at the Locust), or spotting for indirect-fired LRMs from your other units.  If it stops, it generally dies, but it tends to survive as long as it keeps the movement modifiers high and the enemy has better targets to shoot at.

If the enemy puts an LRM Carrier or similar in the backfield, the Locust can get into point-blank range of its side or rear quickly, shoot it (the MGs have as much chance of scoring critical hits or mobility hits as a Medium Laser), and then kick it.  If there's a Demolisher tank guarding the LRM Carrier, STAND on the Demolisher (units other than infantry can't fire at 0 range), shoot the LRM Carrier, and then kick the Demolisher instead.  If the enemy fields a Hunchback, run behind it, and hope that the Medium Laser followed by the MGs hit the same torso side (1 critical hit for the ML, and a second if one of the MGs hits the same side), very possibly taking out the HBK or disabling its main gun in a single round of fire.  It's also fun to run in and kick a damaged leg on some heavier 'Mech, although the Locust is clearly not optimized for 'Mech versus 'Mech combat.

A Firestarter makes a good specialist 'Mech, packing enough short-range firepower to successfully engage most other light 'Mechs, or deal heat to opposing 'Mechs that are typically short on heatsinks.  At 6/9/6, it's got the mobility to avoid most bigger units, a lot of light weapons to incinerate and perforate infantry or immobilize vehicles, and a pair of Medium Lasers to deal with opposing scouts.  The ability to start fires (if using "Starting Fires" optional rules) borders on a war crime in a game where fire can be crippling to 'Mechs and lethal to vehicles and infantry.  The Javelin makes a good alternative: highly effective at taking out vehicles, and ideal for delivering critical hits against 'Mechs that have already taken a lot of damage, but should never be expected to face off against undamaged "line" 'Mechs.

I'm not fond of the 30 ton Valkyrie, as it doesn't have enough speed to outrun most "cavalry" units that will attempt to engage it, doesn't deliver enough LRM firepower to matter in most battles, and can't adequately protect itself in a melee.  It's a poor compromise, in my opinion.  A 40 ton Whitworth has double the long-ranged firepower and 3x the short-ranged weaponry, at a comparable cost, although it's slower.  A 50 ton Trebuchet delivers 3x the long AND short-ranged firepower, as well as retaining the 5/8 walking/running speed, although it doesn't jump and costs significantly more.  A Phoenix Hawk delivers more average damage at 2/3 of the range (8 points out to 15 hexes, rather than an average of 6 damage at 21 hexes), won't run out of ammo, outruns and out-jumps the Valkyrie, and packs the short-range firepower to destroy it with ease once it catches it.  The Valkyrie is also fairly rare outside of one or possibly two Houses.  Put a cheap 35 ton Hunter vehicle on the table with an LRM-20, and the Valkyrie is effectively obsoleted in most situations.

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #82 on: 03 December 2019, 12:05:25 »
Put a cheap 35 ton Hunter vehicle on the table with an LRM-20, and the Valkyrie is effectively obsoleted in most situations.

Except when it needs to go up the mountain, be kicked out of a dropship, cross a river/lake, get through heavy woods in a tactical timeframe, or operate in a hostile environment.

The OP has also not asked for the best- but rather cheap/abundant workhorse.  We see plenty of Valkyries in mercs IIRC, so because they were one of the most produced mechs in the 3SW they should be abundant.  They work pretty well as long range support for the scouting bug mechs.

IMO the Valkyrie use comes down to how heavy or light you want your force to be . . . to the OP, you said you like/want the Marauder- jump on that . . . and to get back to your OP-

Marauder-  solid in the early eras, the 3 series has a few options you can convert to (or start with) depending on your supply situation.  The -3D, -3L and -3M (even -4X) all offer options that you can take your Marauder even before 3050.  After the tech starts to become available again int he 3040s leading into the Clan Invasion of the early 3050s, you start getting a LOT more options- like 15 more in the following eras so far.  I THINK it might be the mech with the most variants if you use the command/DC/named options with numbers in the low 20s?  This will be available in one of the new KS boxes.
Role:  Command & Direct Fire Support (for most)

Griffin-  Very good ranged fire support in most variants that can also drop behind cover for indirect fire support.  During the 3rd Succession War (early era) you only get 2 variants really, but after that it takes off for a total of 13 with a few unique versions.  Produced all over and a long established design you should be able to maintain one even in the tech poor eras unless you have a bad run of luck.  The Griffin is one of the classic trio, pretty mobile since it can do a full jump and has hands.  You can also get this mini right now in the Starter Box if you do not have it already.
Role:  Skirmisher & Fire Support

Locust-  You said you like the chicken walkers, so why not?  As mentioned its a speedy recon machine though its not the fastest, it can get pretty close to that claim in about any era.  It has a lot of variants, but what they all have in common is speed & a mid ranged weapon- usually a ML.  As mentioned, its not a stand & slug it out design but can be pretty useful as long as that is not the only type battle you are involved in- even then it has uses for a player who thinks.  Later eras?  It gets a bit better and keeps up with the speed . . . I LOVE the Locust 5M but you have to becareful with them since speed is not as effective a defense as it is in early periods.  This mech is found in the Game of Armored Combat box as one of 8 minis offered.
Role:  Recon

Last mech for lots of variants & availability in BTU/mini should be a Shadow Hawk, Wolverine or Thunderbolt- just sort of depends on what you want to do and how challenged you want to be going into fights.  All three are available in currently released boxes though the Classic Shadow Hawk has been released by Iron Wind Metals for a little while now along with a variant.

If you want to know what mechs are abundant and have variants through the timeline you can look to the mechs Catalyst put in the already released boxes (9 designs- Griffin, Wolverine x2, Locust, Commando, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Catapult, Awesome, Battlemaster) or in the coming KS boxes.  The KS boxes have a few exceptions among the IS mechs (Nightstar comes to mind) but its a pretty solid rule.
Colt Ward
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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #83 on: 03 December 2019, 23:47:28 »
I like the Javelin and it is a popular design but while its in use with all the houses its not that common since there's no factory. Also like the Valkyrie it's mostly a Davion mech. Mercs working with/for Davion could probably get one, especially a salvaged one that needs work, but I don't think they'll likely to be found on the used Mech lot. 

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #84 on: 06 December 2019, 21:33:16 »
Ostsol. The base model can be best to help and back and still fight. I have had several lose both arms and still be 100% combat effective.

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #85 on: 10 December 2019, 18:24:41 »
Marauder makes a nice CO ride
Thunderbolt makes his Zombie Bodyguard
Wolverine or Griffin for your Trooper Mech
and a Bug for that Scout/Recon Unit.  Figure out if you want Jump or Speed

Firestarter, if you are doing personal mods has the space to keep PBI terror role and still be light combatant.
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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #86 on: 10 December 2019, 20:15:41 »
If you are looking for a solid Hunchie then the 4J is one of the best you can get. Can do long range 2xLRM10s and 5xMLs for anything foolish to get close.

Probably a bit cheaper than your Catapult to buy and maintain without sacrificing too much long range fire-power.

Makes a good fire support and body guard all-in-one for your commander.

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #87 on: 10 December 2019, 20:28:32 »
+1 for the HBK-4J... it's a very solid 'mech.

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #88 on: 11 December 2019, 08:45:54 »
All the suggestions are good ones. I'd add that if you're in the Chaos March post 3058, the Lineholder would be a good match. 50 tons, 5/8 movement, large laser, four medium lasers, two LRM-5s with one ton ammo; Ten tons of armor. This version is all Introductory tech, so it's going to be easy to maintain. It's also got some later variants that add more advanced weaponry. The "Linebreaker" variant is kind of cool with two RAC/2s but it only has one ton of ammo for both guns, meaning you can run out pretty quick.

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #89 on: 23 December 2019, 06:47:37 »
A solid workhorse for all occasions? The Dire Wolf/Daishi!

That's the Smoke Jaguar answer anyway.  ;D

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