Commanders Edition - What's in it?

[Vandervecken]

So Commanders Edition is just about to hit the streets. Does anyone have information as to what changes (apart from incorporating errata)? Mine should be in the mail soon, but it would be great to know what to look for.

[Punishermark]

I would wait for 2nd printing. This first has errors already. See the Errata section of the forum.

[nckestrel]

I would wait for 2nd printing. This first has errors already. See the Errata section of the forum.

There won’t be a printing without errors. Unfortunate truth.

[Vandervecken]

I dunno man, those are some pretty bad errors.

[nckestrel]

Print runs happen when the previous print run runs out. Opinion on errors has no bearing on it.
I’m not defending the errors or anything else, just giving information.

[Scotty]

I dunno man, those are some pretty bad errors.

Can you elaborate on which of the errors are bad*?  I see a couple where the example text wasn't updated correctly, a minor omission under terrain, and a small collection of mostly line-editing errors from the brand new aerospace section.

Nothing there that brings a game to a screeching halt.  Hell, unless you're using fighters (which would be awesome; I'm still really proud of the framework of changes there) nothing that I'd even have noticed while looking up the rules.




I know it sounds kind of like I'm fishing on that, but I can promise you I care far more about identifying major errors that significantly impact gameplay than anything else

[Vandervecken]

Actually you're right, almost all of this is in the Aerospace section.

[Vandervecken]

But in any case, what are the major rule changes (if any) for regular Mech/Vehicle play?

[Scotty]

Let's see, off the top of my head (I'll consult the copy I got at Origins when I get home from work):

- Terrain modifiers (woods and partial cover both went from +2 to +1)
- TMM loss from heat and damage (no longer have to memorize or look up the table in the book; it's not there anymore.  Half MP is also half TMM, and the second point of heat drops the TMM by 1).
- JMPW# and JMPS# replace looking up the 'real' TMM for jumping movement; you add +1 to your normal TMM for jumping like usual, then modify that number based on the #.  A Jenner D's (14"/10"j) TMM is +3, jumping is +1, JMPW1 is -1, the Jenner's jumping TMM is +3.  Slightly more steps if you already had everything memorized, significantly easier if you didn't.
- Lance/Star formation building got tweaked a bit, too many small things to list here.
- Building a full Company (or bigger) force with Special Command Abilities and that cool stuff is reworked slightly to be more intuitive.

I think those are the big ones that affect primarily 'Mech/vehicles.

EDIT: it's also improved significantly in layout and appearance.  If you have the BattleMech Manual, it resembles that aesthetically.  Which is a major improvement in my estimation.

[Fear Factory]

The woods and partial cover mods needed to happen. Water provided some overpowered advantages.

[Weirdo]

Do units still suffer a penalty for firing out of woods, or is it more TW style where the shooter doesn't care?

[Scotty]

Do units still suffer a penalty for firing out of woods, or is it more TW style where the shooter doesn't care?

I don't think anything for terrain has changed besides the value of the modifier.

[Weirdo]

So shooting out of a woods hex still has the same penalties as shooting into one?

[nckestrel]

So shooting out of a woods hex still has the same penalties as shooting into one?

Yes, nothing was changed there.

[Weirdo]

Fair enough. I don't necessarily mind it, aside from having to flip a mental switch every time I go from Total War to Alpha Strike.

[Thorvidar]

Went a Head and bought the book. Really like the Battlefield support rules, really love it. Secondly I am liking some other changes they did to Alpha strike, dont want to get into details, want people to buy the book as its totally worth it. I have a Physical copy on order, but bought it on Drivethru to support Battletech and Alpha strike.

[mitchberthelson]

The Unit Conversion rules don't seem to be up on the download page yet. Is there an ETA?

Also, Design Quirks as a concept are mentioned multiple times in the rules, but their rules are not included. Will those be in Conversion Rules?

[nckestrel]

A unit conversion PDF is still just an idea, not an active project/product.  Ie. Don’t expect it soon.

I have not heard any plans for quirks.

[Pat Payne]

A unit conversion PDF is still just an idea, not an active project/product.  Ie. Don’t expect it soon.

Please forgive me if this might sound harsh (I don't want it to :-[ ), but I'm not sure it was a good idea to imply otherwise in the book itself (where it's mentioned in the present tense with a link to the download page  - p.23, second column, paragraph 3). Better to not mention it at all and then surprise us with it coming up on the downloads page rather than making an implicit promise of the doc being available at that moment.

[mitchberthelson]

A unit conversion PDF is still just an idea, not an active project/product.  Ie. Don’t expect it soon.

I have not heard any plans for quirks.

Odd....that PDF is promised to be at bg.battletech.com/downloads at the beginning of the book. If it's just an idea, why make the promise in print?

[mitchberthelson]

A unit conversion PDF is still just an idea, not an active project/product.  Ie. Don’t expect it soon.

I have not heard any plans for quirks.

Regarding Quirks, they're mentioned, even capitalized multiple times in the text but there are no rules. Either the references need to be removed or those rules need to be added.

[nckestrel]

Odd....that PDF is promised to be at bg.battletech.com/downloads at the beginning of the book. If it's just an idea, why make the promise in print?

I didn't make that promise or know it was there.  That means somebody higher up made the promise and they would know when.  I can only speak for myself, I haven't done any work on it.

Please forgive me if this might sound harsh (I don't want it to :-[ ), but I'm not sure it was a good idea to imply otherwise in the book itself (where it's mentioned in the present tense with a link to the download page  - p.23, second column, paragraph 3). Better to not mention it at all and then surprise us with it coming up on the downloads page rather than making an implicit promise of the doc being available at that moment.

Understood.

[nckestrel]

Regarding Quirks, they're mentioned, even capitalized multiple times in the text but there are no rules. Either the references need to be removed or those rules need to be added.

the entirety of the references to Design Quirks in ASCE is "[this/drones/buildings] is not affected by design quirks".  If we removed them, they'd just have to be added back if quirks were in another product.

[mitchberthelson]

the entirety of the references to Design Quirks in ASCE is "[this/drones/buildings] is not affected by design quirks".  If we removed them, they'd just have to be added back if quirks were in another product.

Strike previous. Just saw you mentioned buildings.

[mitchberthelson]

Despite the issues I already mentioned, it looks like this new version is going to play a bit quicker.

[Fear Factory]

There are a lot of small changes... holy cow though, I really like this book. The best thing, IMO, is the reduction for woods and partial cover modifiers. I also like seeing two variable damage options. The natural 12 critical hit thing is also nice. I still wish vehicles had a chance to suffer critical hits during motive crit checks... even if it was just the 2 result on the motive check table. This would be more in line with how they suffer critical hits in BattleTech.

Also, didn't see it in there, but for charging/dfa damage in hex based play it should be:

Size x hexes moved / 4

Other than that... yeah. I can't wait to get it in the mail. Next time I get a group together this book is going to be awesome.

[mitchberthelson]

There are a lot of small changes... holy cow though, I really like this book. The best thing, IMO, is the reduction for woods and partial cover modifiers. I also like seeing two variable damage options. The natural 12 critical hit thing is also nice. I still wish vehicles had a chance to suffer critical hits during motive crit checks... even if it was just the 2 result on the motive check table. This would be more in line with how they suffer critical hits in BattleTech.

Also, didn't see it in there, but for charging/dfa damage in hex based play it should be:

Size x hexes moved / 4

Other than that... yeah. I can't wait to get it in the mail. Next time I get a group together this book is going to be awesome.

Yeah, looking good overall. A few of the subsystems that were annoying got rolled into modifiers or new special abilities (Strong and Weak Jump Jets and the smoother TMM for example), and some of the old quirks, like the targeting systems, reappear as simple optional rules. I also like that auto crit on 12.

I second the praise for Battlefield Support.

[Elmoth]

What about ASF rules? Major changes there?

[Fear Factory]

What about ASF rules? Major changes there?

I'm sure. I only used them once... so someone else may have a better answer.

[Vandervecken]

Yes, nothing was changed there.

I think it would be very difficult to adjudicate this in a non-hex terrain context if it wasn't symmetrical. How many inches of intervening woods create a penalty when shooting into woods, how many inches of woods create a penalty when shooting out of woods.