Author Topic: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog  (Read 2820 times)

Drewbacca

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Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« on: 02 May 2018, 05:50:05 »
The answer is probably obvious, but do you think the decision to not immediately evict the Word from Terra had more to do with not wanting to interrupt the preparation for Bulldog or simply not wanting to do further damage to Terra?

snewsom2997

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #1 on: 02 May 2018, 08:42:26 »
Focht saw the clans as the greater danger in regards to the Words operation to take Terra. The resources to take Terra would have been enormous, and would have gutted the planet and the Comgaurds.


Maelwys

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #2 on: 02 May 2018, 09:51:37 »
Well, depends on immediately. After all, Terra was conquered months before the first Whitting Conference, so the immediate decision not to retake Terra wasn't because of Bulldog. The Second Star League hadn't been considered yet, much less destroying the Jaguars.

The immediate threat that might have prevented the retaking of Terra was really the Jade Falcon's attack on the Lyrans, IIRC, and then the whole Second Star League and Bulldog/Bird Dog and Serpent were a continuing distraction.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2018, 15:40:55 »
Actually, that begs the question of whether Comstar would have had a different viewpoint had Marthe Pryde decided to hold off on her Coventry tantrum for, say, a year. (I dare not say 'not happen at all', these are Jade Falcons we're talking about here- war WILL come, just a matter of WHEN...)

If Comstar doesn't see the Clan threat as being immediate, Focht might not feel so strongly about fighting them in the immediate- or at least other voices might have had more sway rather than 'KILL TEH CLANNERZ NAO' that Focht was so focused on. That COULD prompt them to view (rightly) that Terra and its resources were a key to eventually fighting the Clans, and go take them back before the Word was dug in as heavily as they were a decade later. (And without the special surprises that a decade of uncovering deep dark secrets allowed, such as The Five, the warship fleets, etc.)

Always interesting how that works, isn't it? Obviously we'll never know for sure, but had Marthe decided to back off fighting the Lyrans for a bit, maybe picked on the Wolves instead- or even just gone after a less-important target!- things could have been wildly different.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2018, 15:42:13 »
Yeah, the initial response would have been before the Coventry invasion where he had Vic, Kai and Hohiro visiting Tukkayid for wargames along with their regiments.  IIRC Vic was seriously considering supporting Focht.
Colt Ward
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Drewbacca

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2018, 16:04:44 »
Imagine they the Falcons HAD held off and Focht, with Victor's help, did hit Terra with a quick assault. The Shipyards to a while to fall, so that would have been a good rally point. Then the word would have to decide if it was time to bring their hidden army out and ruin the clans' surprise.

Colt Ward

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2018, 16:42:45 »
The Word did not really have a hidden army at that point- remember what they had to kick off the Jihad took them the 10 years to build- either through production on Terra/Gibson, theft from other factions or skimming off the FWL.  Ten years of datamining ROM for secrets & special weapons, recovering warships, and buying off mercenary forces.  I think they were also a bit manpower challenged which is why IMO they should have had more BA than infantry & vehicles- firepower per man as well as maintenance requirements for equipment makes BA better than the other two conventionals.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

snewsom2997

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #7 on: 03 May 2018, 01:53:27 »
The Word did not really have a hidden army at that point- remember what they had to kick off the Jihad took them the 10 years to build- either through production on Terra/Gibson, theft from other factions or skimming off the FWL.  Ten years of datamining ROM for secrets & special weapons, recovering warships, and buying off mercenary forces.  I think they were also a bit manpower challenged which is why IMO they should have had more BA than infantry & vehicles- firepower per man as well as maintenance requirements for equipment makes BA better than the other two conventionals.

Depending on who was pulling the strings I expect the same type of scortched earth tactics that happened when the WOB was finally kicked off Terra. Battle tech seems chock full of if I cannot have it no one can.

Colt Ward

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #8 on: 03 May 2018, 11:27:44 »
Sure . . . but a '58 or '59 campaign to retake Terra would be different than what happened when Stone finally led his survivors to the Sol system.  Its a long list of what is not there, but the simple version is Sol would still have been contested at that time.  ComStar would have more warships to hit the system with and a shipyard they owned & operated in system- could they get more from Vic?  who knows . . . could they hire the Dragoon's warships if the Falcons had not moved?  who knows

Word of Blake would also not have had the time to ferret out or destroy ComStar's stay-behinds or other CS ROM operations.  How long did ComGuard forces hang on in the more remote regions?  They would also not have lost more followers, either outright or in secret, by having Vic named Precentor Martial . . . or even the credibility loss of Terra belonging to someone else.

Honestly, for a strategic guru Focht not using his superior warship fleet- which was not halting Clan raids afaik- to blockade the Sol system was a WTF moment.  Even if you follow the decision not to immediately retake Terra for its military significance, then having patrolling warships, gunship dropships and small craft keep anything from leaving the factories of Terra to go to other Blakist strongholds is a good idea.  Same with keeping Blakist command structure, ROM structure, the few Blakist units not involved in the invasion or any mercs hired from reaching the planet to reinforce defenders . . . is also a good idea.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Maelwys

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #9 on: 03 May 2018, 13:19:22 »
The problem is that a 3058/59 invasion just isn't that interesting really. ComStar can bring such an overwhelming force against it that its not really that interesting. WoB doesn't really have any defenses in place, they haven't had a chance to buff up their armies and doesn't have the political connections in the Chaos March really.

Its...meh. About the only thing that could make it interesting is maybe the FWL putting pressure on ComStar, or reinforcing Terra with FWL troops...

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #10 on: 03 May 2018, 13:37:19 »
The problem is that a 3058/59 invasion just isn't that interesting really. ComStar can bring such an overwhelming force against it that its not really that interesting. WoB doesn't really have any defenses in place, they haven't had a chance to buff up their armies and doesn't have the political connections in the Chaos March really.

Its...meh. About the only thing that could make it interesting is maybe the FWL putting pressure on ComStar, or reinforcing Terra with FWL troops...

...actually that would be a fun AU campaign to run. This deserves some pondering for me over the weekend.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Colt Ward

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #11 on: 03 May 2018, 15:47:27 »
Sure Maelwys, that was my point- Blakists sunk almost all their resources into taking Terra.  Focht could have cut out their military threat for a LONG time if he had retaken the world- except due to double blind we know the Toyama & St Jamais were not heavily involved in claiming Terra.  The 6th of June might have become the Blakist's military wing.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Drewbacca

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #12 on: 03 May 2018, 15:50:44 »
...actually that would be a fun AU campaign to run. This deserves some pondering for me over the weekend.

If you run this on Megamek, count me in!

Talen5000

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #13 on: 03 May 2018, 17:17:04 »
The answer is probably obvious, but do you think the decision to not immediately evict the Word from Terra had more to do with not wanting to interrupt the preparation for Bulldog or simply not wanting to do further damage to Terra?

Fochts decision to not retake Terra is one of those "What is he doing moments?" that make me think he was operating under some sort of subliminal directives from the Master.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Operations Odysseus and Bulldog
« Reply #14 on: 04 May 2018, 00:13:14 »
Well, to be fair 3057 was sort of filled with those moments.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

 

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